Poll of the Day > Bump-fire stocks on guns now illegal.

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.npr.org/2018/12/18/677788059/justice-department-bans-bump-stocks-devices-used-in-deadly-las-vegas-shooting

The Trump administration is banning bump stocks, the firearm attachment that allows a semiautomatic weapon to shoot almost as fast as a machine gun.

The devices, also known as slide fires, came under intense scrutiny after they were used by the gunman who opened fire on a country music concert in Las Vegas last year, killing 58 people.

The massacre touched off a public outcry, including from some lawmakers, for the accessories to be banned.

Under a new federal rule announced Tuesday by the Justice Department, bump stocks will be redefined as "machine guns" and therefore outlawed under existing law.

The new regulations, which were signed by acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker, will take effect 90 days after being published in the Federal Register. A Justice Department official said that would likely happen Friday.

Current bump stock owners will have the 90 days before the new rule takes effect to either destroy the devices they own or turn them in to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

The new regulations could face legal challenges from the National Rifle Association, bump stock owners or manufacturers. A Justice Department official said the department is confident in its analysis and is prepared to defend the new rule in court if needed.

Justice Department officials say they don't know exactly how many bump stocks are privately owned, but they estimate the number in the tens of thousands.

Trump ordered the Justice Department to ban the devices in March. The department followed up by proposing a federal rule change that would reclassify bump stocks so they fell under the definition of a "machine gun," as it's now doing.

Fully automatic machine guns are strictly controlled in the U.S. It is illegal under federal law for a private citizen to own a machine gun that was manufactured after 1986.

So one could still acquire a Thompson, right?
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1) Good

2) Unfortunately this is probably going to get shot down.
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i mean.... ok. its pretty fucking easy to make your own bump stock, but whatever helps you sleep at night
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Look! A distraction!

zebatov posted...

So one could still acquire a Thompson, right?

Maybe learn the difference, big guy.
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I support the second amendment but fuck the NRA theyre just a mouthpiece for the gun manufacturers
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But how will those poor, starving subsistence hunters shoot 200 deer in under a minute now?

zebatov posted...

So one could still acquire a Thompson, right?

i mean shit, up until 1934 there was nothing legally stopping an 8 year old kid from buying an M1 with a few months allowance.
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_AdjI_ posted...

But how will those poor, starving subsistence hunters shoot 200 deer in under a minute now?

by taking an hour and building their own fucking bump stock
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Troll_Police_ posted...

_AdjI_ posted...

But how will those poor, starving subsistence hunters shoot 200 deer in under a minute now?

by taking an hour and building their own fucking bump stock

But then the government could take it away from them if they're caught! They're going to starve because of this flagrant overreach!

I just want the right to own an assault weapon.
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Such a dumb idea. You're targeting the responsible people while the criminals aren't going to give a damn.

DPsx7 posted...

the criminals aren't going to give a damn.

It doesn't really matter if the criminals care or not if the product stops being sold altogether. As Schmen's saying, homemade ones are still possible, but this will definitely take them out of stores, which means the only way to get one will be to buy it on the black market (an extra step that can be punished) or make their own. The more hoops there are to jump through, the less likely it is that criminals will end up with them.

People can also make their own silencers. Doesnt mean they shouldnt be restricted.

DPsx7 posted...

Such a dumb idea. You're targeting the responsible people while the criminals aren't going to give a damn.

The great thing about responsible people is that they can never ever commit crimes and anyone that is a criminal can not possibly obtain their property
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Troll_Police_ posted...

i mean.... ok. its pretty fucking easy to make your own bump stock, but whatever helps you sleep at night

This. If the anti-gunners consider this a win, let them have it. A largely meaningless measure.
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_AdjI_ posted...

It doesn't really matter if the criminals care or not if the product stops being sold altogether

But then product won't stop being sold. Just here in the U.S. so the product won't go away. It's crazy easy to order illegal shit from the internet and have it sent to you. The people that are willing to ignore the laws will still get them.
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Bugmeat posted...

_AdjI_ posted...

It doesn't really matter if the criminals care or not if the product stops being sold altogether

But then product won't stop being sold. Just here in the U.S. so the product won't go away. It's crazy easy to order illegal shit from the internet and have it sent to you. The people that are willing to ignore the laws will still get them.

It's still another hoop to jump through. Will people work around it? Absolutely. Will some people find themselves unable to get one? Also yes.

Mixed feelings about this, although bump stocks kinda exist to circumvent gun laws so I guess it was just a matter of time so, on some level, the ban makes sense. On the other hand, it's not like it's hard to make a bump stock anyway. You can build one yourself for $10 or $20.

Mead posted...

I support the second amendment but fuck the NRA theyre just a mouthpiece for the gun manufacturers

...and gun owners.
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_AdjI_ posted...

which means the only way to get one will be to buy it on the black market (an extra step that can be punished) or make their own. The more hoops there are to jump through, the less likely it is that criminals will end up with them.

nobody is going to buy that shit on the black market

you can literally make one in less time than it takes to go to the fucking store and buy one. it is a stupidly simple device.

this does absolutely nothing. it is completely fucking meaningless.
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_AdjI_ posted...

DPsx7 posted...

the criminals aren't going to give a damn.

It doesn't really matter if the criminals care or not if the product stops being sold altogether. As Schmen's saying, homemade ones are still possible, but this will definitely take them out of stores, which means the only way to get one will be to buy it on the black market (an extra step that can be punished) or make their own. The more hoops there are to jump through, the less likely it is that criminals will end up with them.

They're already out there, at this point they're just wasting their time. Using it poorly can also be punished but that's not a deterrent.

Same thing with the guns themselves. All this does is allow the criminals to have better tools than the homeowner.

Zeus posted...

Mead posted...

I support the second amendment but fuck the NRA theyre just a mouthpiece for the gun manufacturers

...and gun owners.

Except no. The majority of NRA members actually support common sense gun legislation that the organization so often rallies against for no other reason than that it could negatively affect the manufacturers bottom line
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zebatov posted...

So one could still acquire a Thompson, right?

Yes, you can buy a Thompson. You only have to buy a $200-ish tax stamp.

And then find someone who's actually willing to sell a Thompson. And it'll probably cost several tens of thousands of dollars, at least.

_AdjI_ posted...

Bugmeat posted...

_AdjI_ posted...

It doesn't really matter if the criminals care or not if the product stops being sold altogether

But then product won't stop being sold. Just here in the U.S. so the product won't go away. It's crazy easy to order illegal shit from the internet and have it sent to you. The people that are willing to ignore the laws will still get them.

It's still another hoop to jump through. Will people work around it? Absolutely. Will some people find themselves unable to get one? Also yes.

its not a hoop to jump through. it is a 2 inch bump in the sidewalk.
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_AdjI_ posted...

Bugmeat posted...

_AdjI_ posted...

It doesn't really matter if the criminals care or not if the product stops being sold altogether

But then product won't stop being sold. Just here in the U.S. so the product won't go away. It's crazy easy to order illegal shit from the internet and have it sent to you. The people that are willing to ignore the laws will still get them.

It's still another hoop to jump through. Will people work around it? Absolutely. Will some people find themselves unable to get one? Also yes.

Bullshit, if they want it they'll get it or find something else to misbehave with. I can't stress enough how useless gun control is. Find out 'why' people act out, that's the only answer.

Troll_Police_ posted...

this does absolutely nothing. it is completely f***ing meaningless.

It means that googling "how to make a bump stock" will attract attention, as well as that somebody can be arrested for owning it if one turns up while investigating a tip (whereas simply owning a bunch of guns and ammunition isn't enough for that). Will it solve the problem altogether? Of course not. Will it make it a bit harder/less convenient for would-be mass murderers? Yes. Will it inconvenience any law-abiding citizens? No. Ergo, it just makes sense to push it through.

DPsx7 posted...

Find out 'why' people act out, that's the only answer.

Convincing republicans to permit/enact gun control its hard, but at least it's possible. Convincing republicans to increase the availability of mental health supports, not so much.

Gun control doesnt work -only country with a mass shooting three times a week
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Mead posted...

Zeus posted...

Mead posted...

I support the second amendment but fuck the NRA theyre just a mouthpiece for the gun manufacturers

...and gun owners.

Except no. The majority of NRA members actually support common sense gun legislation that the organization so often rallies against for no other reason than that it could negatively affect the manufacturers bottom line

[Citation needed.]
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Zeus posted...

Mead posted...

Zeus posted...

Mead posted...

I support the second amendment but fuck the NRA theyre just a mouthpiece for the gun manufacturers

...and gun owners.

Except no. The majority of NRA members actually support common sense gun legislation that the organization so often rallies against for no other reason than that it could negatively affect the manufacturers bottom line

[Citation needed.]

https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2015/mar/18/lena-taylor/most-nra-members-back-background-checks-all-gun-pu/
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The only gun owners the NRA is a mouthpiece for are the ones that have bought the NRA's propaganda thoroughly enough to say the same things the NRA would already have been saying.

Mead posted...

Zeus posted...

Mead posted...

Zeus posted...

Mead posted...

I support the second amendment but fuck the NRA theyre just a mouthpiece for the gun manufacturers

...and gun owners.

Except no. The majority of NRA members actually support common sense gun legislation that the organization so often rallies against for no other reason than that it could negatively affect the manufacturers bottom line

[Citation needed.]

https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2015/mar/18/lena-taylor/most-nra-members-back-background-checks-all-gun-pu/

The poll was conducted online among 2,703 adults -- including 169 NRA members -- through GfK Knowledge Networks, which specializes in working with academic and government researchers to do polling online. It recruits participants randomly via mail and telephone.

169 NRA members. Seems legit.
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CacciatoPart3 posted...

zebatov posted...

So one could still acquire a Thompson, right?

Maybe learn the difference, big guy.

That doesn't even make sense.

captpackrat posted...

zebatov posted...

So one could still acquire a Thompson, right?

Yes, you can buy a Thompson. You only have to buy a $200-ish tax stamp.

And then find someone who's actually willing to sell a Thompson. And it'll probably cost several tens of thousands of dollars, at least.

Troll_Police_ posted...

i mean shit, up until 1934 there was nothing legally stopping an 8 year old kid from buying an M1 with a few months allowance.

I was just asking because it's dumb to me to "strictly control" some weapons, but only if they were manufactured after a certain date. Like a Thompson that fires at least 600 rpm isn't as deadly or worse than some machine guns that are manufactured after 1986.
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Well, come and get it I guess

Definitely not just handing it over willingly and absolutely not going out of my way to do it.
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I'm guessing that bit of leniency is acknowledging that such weapons are more treated as collector's items than actual weapons, with a price tag to match. That makes them considerably less likely to be used for nefarious purposes, as well as considerably more likely to be owned by innocent people.

It's been crickets from the Right so far on this, when they would have dragged Obama through the streets over suggesting as much.
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CyborgSage00x0 posted...

It's been crickets from the Right so far on this, when they would have dragged Obama through the streets over suggesting as much.

Even when Obama was in office, it's not like there was much outrage over a potential bump stock ban.
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_AdjI_ posted...

I'm guessing that bit of leniency is acknowledging that such weapons are more treated as collector's items than actual weapons, with a price tag to match. That makes them considerably less likely to be used for nefarious purposes, as well as considerably more likely to be owned by innocent people.

That's understandable. I just Googled and there are Korean War commemorative Thompson's being sold in the $30K range. Mint condition.
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Zeus posted...

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

It's been crickets from the Right so far on this, when they would have dragged Obama through the streets over suggesting as much.

Even when Obama was in office, it's not like there was much outrage over a potential bump stock ban.

That's because no one suggested it until Vegas, which was in 2017.
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Mead posted...

People can also make their own silencers. Doesnt mean they shouldnt be restricted.

They are, as part of the NFA.
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CyborgSage00x0 posted...

Zeus posted...

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

It's been crickets from the Right so far on this, when they would have dragged Obama through the streets over suggesting as much.

Even when Obama was in office, it's not like there was much outrage over a potential bump stock ban.

That's because no one suggested it until Vegas, which was in 2017.

Was it just 2017? Feels like it was a lot longer than that. At any rate, bump stocks are just something that people are less likely to defend
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A dumb law.
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SunWuKung420 posted...

Mead posted...

People can also make their own silencers. Doesnt mean they shouldnt be restricted.

They are, as part of the NFA.

Yeah that is the point I am making
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Wow I didnt know trump was a liberal

People laughably believe the NRA is powerful. Perhaps a long, long time ago, but all they're interested in now is collecting more membership fees and slicing up the Second Amendment like a Christmas ham. As ever, and as stated before in this thread, this is a distraction. You're not allowed to point out that most crimes with guns are committed with your basic pistol, that the only practical difference between a deer rifle and a "sniper rifle" is the quality of the scope on it, and you're most definitely not allowed to see precisely who is committing all of the crimes. That would be racist.
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_AdjI_ posted...

DPsx7 posted...

the criminals aren't going to give a damn.

It doesn't really matter if the criminals care or not if the product stops being sold altogether. As Schmen's saying, homemade ones are still possible, but this will definitely take them out of stores, which means the only way to get one will be to buy it on the black market (an extra step that can be punished) or make their own. The more hoops there are to jump through, the less likely it is that criminals will end up with them.

Ding ding ding, this one gets it.
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MICHALECOLE posted...

Wow I didnt know trump was a liberal

He's from NY, so duh.
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I'm excited to see what message he's sending Q by doing this.

papercup posted...

1) Good

2) Unfortunately this is probably going to get shot down.

Yeah, the National Riflemaker's Association is gonna be all over this.
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DiScOrD tHe LuNaTiC posted...

papercup posted...

1) Good

2) Unfortunately this is probably going to get shot down.

Yeah, the National Riflemaker's Association is gonna be all over this.

Yeah, and they're not doing anything aside from distancing itself from the ban.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/18/nra-distances-itself-bump-stock-ban-current-owners-should-allowed-keep-theirs/

The NRAs Jennifer Baker reacted to absence of a grandfather clause by saying:

We are disappointed that this final rule fails to address the thousands of law-abiding Americans who relied on prior ATF determinations when lawfully acquiring these devices. As we recommended to the ATF in our comments on the proposed rule Congress made it possible for the Attorney General to provide amnesty for firearms regulated under the National Firearms Act. The Attorney General should have exercised that authority to provide a period of amnesty under this rule.

It's America so people will find other ways to shoot each other more deader
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