Poll of the Day > Wait why can't vegans eat cheese?

(+) Yeah! (+)

You don't kill cows for cheese.

My sister made roasted Brussel sprouts with Parmesan for Thanksgiving but she made a separate dish without cheese for our vegan cousin who will probably be the only vegan there. What's wrong with eating cheese?

You have to "harm" it in a way it likes.
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All vegans are lactose intolerant it's basic science
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They argue about animal suffering, not just death, but you can just so cut some hair from an animal--something that's totally harmless-and the vegan might go as far refuse to use the paintbrush you make with it, because of animal cruelty or suffering."
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It's about animal products, not just killing them.
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What if I have free range cattle and milk them myself?

Would vegans be able to eat cheese made under certain controlled conditions?

BloodWhen_iWipe posted...

What if I have free range cattle and milk them myself?

Would vegans be able to eat cheese made under certain controlled conditions?

They will still argue no, and claim the "animal suffering" clause. It's bullshit, I know.
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Because Turkeys get angry when they eat cheese.
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Vegetarians are the ones you are thinking of bud they only care about eating the flesh of animals. If someone is Vegan they don't want to eat any product generated by animals...

Eggs
Cheese
Yogurt
Milk
etc...

A vegetarian would have 100% no problem with the original dish besides maybe not enjoying the taste.
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They should eat kerrygold butter and cheese. All the milk they use comes from grass-fed, small farm cows. It's a great product of Ireland.
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I remember I asked about vegans and animal byproducts before...
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Zangulus posted...

Do... you not know what vegan means?

Me or TC? If me, I do. Idk about TC, though...
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Most vegans don't want to support the animal meat industry in any way. Sure they like being milked, but on top of that (typically) their male calves are used for veal a day after they give birth, they're artificially inseminated and give birth every 10 months, infections are common, the list goes on, they're not nice to the cows.

BloodWhen_iWipe posted...

What if I have free range cattle and milk them myself?

Would vegans be able to eat cheese made under certain controlled conditions?

That would depend on the person, obviously. They don't have a disease.
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because they are whiny nutjobs who think they are better than people who eat meat
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I know what vegan means but my cousin claims she's vegan to be "cruelty free"

I don't understand what's cruel about cheese.

Is English not your first language?

BloodWhen_iWipe posted...

I know what vegan means but my cousin claims she's vegan to be "cruelty free"

I don't understand what's cruel about cheese.

Why can't a vegan diet include cheese?

BloodWhen_iWipe posted...

I know what vegan means but my cousin claims she's vegan to be "cruelty free"

I don't understand what's cruel about cheese.

There is no cheese industry. When you buy cheese you support the meat industry.

Yellow posted...

their male calves are used for veal a day after they give birth, they're artificially inseminated and give birth every 10 months, infections are common, the list goes on

because they are whiny nutjobs who think they are better than people who eat meat

It's human nature to not care about things that don't affect you, especially when you're the one being blamed, so blaming people will not solve the problem.

Meat eaters are absolutely not responsible for the animal cruelty done by the meat industry, and Vegan boycotting won't impact it in any way. Lack of regulations are the problem. Still, I respect Vegans for going over the top.
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Dairy does kill cows

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/26/dairy-dirty-secret-its-still-cheaper-to-kill-male-calves-than-to-rear-them

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/dairy-industry-cows-settlement_us_57d1a4ade4b03d2d459926e4

Vegan has an actual culinary definition meaning free of animal products. How the animals lived or died is irrelevant. No cattle milk is vegan

Not all vegetarians eat dairy. Nor do all vegetarians eat eggs. Eggs are not considered vegetarian in Indian, for example.
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BloodWhen_iWipe posted...

I know what vegan means but my cousin claims she's vegan to be "cruelty free"

And yet she'll probably gladly eat soy-based products despite the widespread deforestation and human rights abuses involved in the farming of soybeans.

You could probably also tell her that her almond milk is partially responsible for the displacement and death of hundreds of thousands of bees. (She probably wouldn't give a shit that the almonds are likely farmed by migrant workers making less than minimum wage and exacerbating droughts in California because when they say "cruelty free", they only mean animal cruelty.)
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dainkinkaide posted...

And yet she'll probably gladly eat soy-based products despite the widespread deforestation and human rights abuses involved in the farming of soybeans.

This is for cattle feed. Not for humans.

Just over 6% of soy grown is used for human consumed products. Over 80% is strictly for livestock

Imagine how much land could be saved by not feeding billions of animals to inefficiently create meat
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sM8pDH-HMc" data-time="
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dainkinkaide posted...

You could probably also tell her that her almond milk is partially responsible for the displacement and death of hundreds of thousands of bees. (She probably wouldn't give a shit that the almonds are likely farmed by migrant workers making less than minimum wage and exacerbating droughts in California because when they say "cruelty free", they only mean animal cruelty.)

As far as drought and migrant work is concerned, dairy is far worse.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2015-04-13/cows-suck-up-more-of-california-s-water-than-almonds

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/wisconsin-dairy-industry-undocumented-workers_us_59c3cfb7e4b06f93538cfd3f

Don't forget that dairy does require a lot of slaughter

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/19/christmas-crisis-kill-dinner-work-abattoir-industry-psychological-physical-damage

Migrants or not, almond harvesting doesn't leave people with PTSD

The monoculture situation sucks. No disagreement. But it's much less sucky for the environment to have almond milk than dairy
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Almond milk uses too much water to produce.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Dairy does kill cows

What about the scenario I listed above. I know it's not feasible for 99% of the cheese-eating population, but if someone were to raise their own free range cattle and gather their own milk, wouldn't that be in essence cruelty-free?

Thank you for your input, by the way. I'm not knocking vegans just trying to understand the cruelty aspect of the culture. It would seem to me some vegans could eat cheese or maybe even eggs if they could source them from cruelty-free providers.

All animals on Earth eat eachother though. They all eat something that lives whether it be plants or other animals.

That's just how life is.
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BloodWhen_iWipe posted...

What about the scenario I listed above.

Dairy is still not vegan

Period

Some vegetarians may eat it, anyone following a strictly plant based or vegan diet will not
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SunWuKung420 posted...

Almond milk uses too much water to produce.

It uses less than dairy does

By far

There's also oat milk, coconut milk, soy milk, rice milk, pea milk... Don't have to use almonds to ditch dairy. Plenty of very ecologically friendly options.

https://www.truthordrought.com/almond-milk-myths/

Remember, a vegan diet saves 600 gallons of water per day compared to the average meat-eater, per National Geographic almonds and all.

In conclusion, if you'd rather skip the almonds or go light on them, by all means, go ahead. A variety of different nuts, as well as plant-based milks and products like cheese and ice cream are available. But vilifying almonds and almond milk while letting dairy and other animal agriculture off the hook is nonsensical.

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Doctor Foxx posted...

BloodWhen_iWipe posted...

What about the scenario I listed above.

Dairy is still not vegan

Period

No, I get that. I'm phrasing my question poorly.

I guess I'd have to ask on a case-by-case basis if a vegan who is vegan strictly based on the cruelty issue would consider becoming *vegetarian* and eating dairy based on the scenerio I framed earlier.

Dairy cows are kept in terribly stressful conditions in order to keep them producing milk nonstop. They spend their lives suffering
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Mead posted...

Dairy cows are kept in terribly stressful conditions in order to keep them producing milk nonstop. They spend their lives suffering

BloodWhen_iWipe posted...

What if I have free range cattle and milk them myself?

BloodWhen_iWipe posted...

Mead posted...

Dairy cows are kept in terribly stressful conditions in order to keep them producing milk nonstop. They spend their lives suffering

BloodWhen_iWipe posted...

What if I have free range cattle and milk them myself?

Where do all of the calves go? Do you separate the calves? Do you artificially inseminate the mothers?

It's not milk for you. It's for the baby.
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I feel like I know what BloodWhen_iWipe is trying to say. But it seems like others dont...
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Who knows how vegans think... They are apparently upset about Animal Crackers for being shaped like animals. I would say they oppose even the domestication of animals but the crackers aren't domesticated.
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SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

Who knows how vegans think... They are apparently upset about Animal Crackers for being shaped like animals. I would say they oppose even the domestication of animals but the crackers aren't domesticated.

I remember the animal cracker thing. Also, I heard you can get Ouija boards from them...
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Where do all of the calves go? Do you separate the calves? Do you artificially inseminate the mothers?

I'm not a dairy farmer, I don't know how to answer these. But I imagine before dairy became industrialized that people gathered milk while having calves around. There must be a way to do it. Dairy farming wasn't always like how you describe.

don't bother trying to talk sense into fox. fox is better than you because you eat meat....
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LinkPizza posted...

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

Who knows how vegans think... They are apparently upset about Animal Crackers for being shaped like animals. I would say they oppose even the domestication of animals but the crackers aren't domesticated.

I remember the animal cracker thing. Also, I heard you can get Ouija boards from them...

The animal cracker thing had to do with the pictures on the box. The issue that some people had was that it depicted animals stuck in cages. All that they were asking for was a new image on the box and they provided alternative art. Animal crackers are vegan and I like having them as a snack sometimes
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Vegans don't eat meat because they don't believe in eating something that was once alive. I guess no vegan realizes that plants are also living creatures.

#vegansdontbelieveplantlifematters

BloodWhen_iWipe posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

Where do all of the calves go? Do you separate the calves? Do you artificially inseminate the mothers?

I'm not a dairy farmer, I don't know how to answer these. But I imagine before dairy became industrialized that people gathered milk while having calves around. There must be a way to do it. Dairy farming wasn't always like how you describe.

There are ways to do it humanely but not once you start doing it at an industrial scale

If the cows were treated even somewhat humanely a gallon of milk would cost over $20
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Mead posted...

BloodWhen_iWipe posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

Where do all of the calves go? Do you separate the calves? Do you artificially inseminate the mothers?

I'm not a dairy farmer, I don't know how to answer these. But I imagine before dairy became industrialized that people gathered milk while having calves around. There must be a way to do it. Dairy farming wasn't always like how you describe.

There are ways to do it humanely but not once you start doing it at an industrial scale

If the cows were treated even somewhat humanely a gallon of milk would cost over $20

That's what I'm driving at. I'm saying if a vegan were to produce milk/cheese on a small scale for personal use, would they be OK with that? Which is impossible to answer here because I'd have to ask each vegan individually and they'd obviously have to answer for themselves, not en masse.

BloodWhen_iWipe posted...

Mead posted...

BloodWhen_iWipe posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

Where do all of the calves go? Do you separate the calves? Do you artificially inseminate the mothers?

I'm not a dairy farmer, I don't know how to answer these. But I imagine before dairy became industrialized that people gathered milk while having calves around. There must be a way to do it. Dairy farming wasn't always like how you describe.

There are ways to do it humanely but not once you start doing it at an industrial scale

If the cows were treated even somewhat humanely a gallon of milk would cost over $20

That's what I'm driving at. I'm saying if a vegan were to produce milk/cheese on a small scale for personal use, would they be OK with that? Which is impossible to answer here because I'd have to ask each vegan individually and they'd obviously have to answer for themselves, not en masse.

It depends on why they are vegan. Its not always for the same reasons
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rogerskg1979 posted...

Vegans don't eat meat because they don't believe in eating something that was once alive. I guess no vegan realizes that plants are also living creatures.

#vegansdontbelieveplantlifematters

From what I understand most vegans have to accept a certain level of animal byproducts in order to live in modern society. Cars, planes, computers, etc are all made with some trace amounts of animal byproducts in them. To be "truly" vegan they'd have to live off the grid and produce their own food, clothing, shelter etc but obviously that isn't realistic.
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Mead posted...

It depends on why they are vegan. Its not always for the same reasons

I feel like I'm repeating myself a lot in this topic. Are you not reading the whole thread?

I already said this topic is in reference to vegans who are vegan in order to avoid cruelty to animals, if they would consider eating cruelty-free dairy.

The problem is that you're giving a specific question for a braud group of people who all have their own reasons.

It's better to ask one specific person how they feel.

It's like me asking vegetarians/vegans about that lab grown meat. I don't expect anyone to answer for everyone, but I want to know their specific situation.
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The vegan would cease being vegan when they knowingly integrate dairy into their regular diet. Doesnt matter what their reason is.

shadowsword87 posted...

The problem is that you're giving a specific question for a braud group of people who all have their own reasons.

It's better to ask one specific person how they feel.

It's like me asking vegetarians/vegans about that lab grown meat. I don't expect anyone to answer for everyone, but I want to know their specific situation.

I think he might be asking that. I dont think we have many vegans here. So, I think he wants to ask any vegans on this board who are vegan because of cruelty to animals of they would be ok with milk if it was cruelty free dairy.
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Yeah, LinkPizza gets it. Although I'm not limiting the question to this board save for the fact that it's posted here. I'll be asking the vegans I know IRL