Current Events > Friendly reminder that giving homeless people homes is cheaper than not.

(+) Yeah! (+)

The medical and legal costs they bring up are much more annually than the cost of housing and assigning them a social worker, and often providing that housing ends with them getting off their feet and off government dependence.

but muh property values
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Agreed. Send them all to Detroit. That city is practically empty. Thousands of abandoned homes for the taking!
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But muh bootstraps
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When you're right, you're right
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glitteringfairy posted...

Agreed. Send them all to Detroit. That city is practically empty. Thousands of abandoned homes for the taking!

Honestly, any that would be willing to relocate should be given the option, but many have family where they are.

MC_BatCommander posted...

but muh property values

Your apartment property value?

People get off government dependence?

Well, thats awesome.
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OctilIery posted...

glitteringfairy posted...

Agreed. Send them all to Detroit. That city is practically empty. Thousands of abandoned homes for the taking!

Honestly, any that would be willing to relocate should be given the option, but many have family where they are.

Ah. Well not many places have a sizeable amount of empty homes just sitting around. I know for certain where I live doesn't have enough empty homes to give all the homeless a home. I guess if they want to improve their lives they'd have to relocate
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If you're basing it on data, it really depends on what kind of homeless people they're helping. It would depend what percentage are temporarily homeless looking to get right back into the game once they get a foothold and how many are "professionally" homeless who have decided that no amount of help will allow them to be anything but useless bums.

Why stop there? Why not buy them BMWs and designer clothes while we're at it
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glitteringfairy posted...

Agreed. Send them all to Detroit. That city is practically empty. Thousands of abandoned homes for the taking!

It's free real estate.
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We should just make all homes free for everyone.
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There is a tiny-home community about a block from me, its such a great idea and there should be more of them.

It has not caused any problems in my area that I know of and my property value has significantly increased in value since it was created
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I made this topic a week or two ago, myself. It is a good reminder.
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KLouD_KoNNeCteD posted...

glitteringfairy posted...

Agreed. Send them all to Detroit. That city is practically empty. Thousands of abandoned homes for the taking!

It's free real estate.

I'm so mad I didn't think of this joke
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nemu posted...

If you're basing it on data, it really depends on what kind of homeless people they're helping. It would depend what percentage are temporarily homeless looking to get right back into the game once they get a foothold and how many are "professionally" homeless who have decided that no amount of help will allow them to be anything but useless bums.

people who are intermittently homeless are rarely if ever captured in the pubic datasets people use to determine homelessness which means they are rarely if ever captured in programs designed to assist the homeless, most of which are either for the chronically homeless or for those experiencing specific problems leading to homelessness (domestic violence survivors, veterans suffering ptsd, that kind of thing)
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glitteringfairy posted...

OctilIery posted...

glitteringfairy posted...

Agreed. Send them all to Detroit. That city is practically empty. Thousands of abandoned homes for the taking!

Honestly, any that would be willing to relocate should be given the option, but many have family where they are.

Ah. Well not many places have a sizeable amount of empty homes just sitting around. I know for certain where I live doesn't have enough empty homes to give all the homeless a home. I guess if they want to improve their lives they'd have to relocate

Pretty much any major city could accomodate this for, if not all, than a sizable portion of willing participants, finding them empty apartments, and in some cases probably finding them roommates. Having a permanent address makes actually recovering possible, where in many cases it's all but impossible. It would also give cities a greater incentive to go after AirBNB and users that take advantage of it by leasing out several apartments to rent at once, something that's supposed to be illegal but has little real focus on it and is driving up rental prices nationwide.

nemu posted...

If you're basing it on data, it really depends on what kind of homeless people they're helping. It would depend what percentage are temporarily homeless looking to get right back into the game once they get a foothold and how many are "professionally" homeless who have decided that no amount of help will allow them to be anything but useless bums.

When this was done in Utah, it resulted in around a reported decrease in around 90%. While that may or may not be completely accurate, it's still a significant portion, and only a very small minority are as you say, and most of those refused to even participate in the program. A decent number of them did "fail" the program in that they didn't rehabilitate and reintigrate to society(I don't know the exact number for this, I want to say around a third but it could be higher or lower), but even in their cases it was cheaper to continue the program than to put them back on the street.

YourDrunkFather posted...

Why stop there? Why not buy them BMWs and designer clothes while we're at it

If it actually saves us money in the long run, why not? There actually are programs to provide families cars which are increasingly necessary, and they need more focus especially as cities in the US tend to have abysmal public transport systems that make finding and holding steady employment much more difficult. There are also programs that provide professional clothing for job interviews, though I don't know that any are government funded - if anyone knows about that, I'd love to hear of it.

TheGoldenEel posted...

There is a tiny-home community about a block from me, its such a great idea and there should be more of them.

It has not caused any problems in my area that I know of and my property value has significantly increased in value since it was created

The kind of people who tend to make those sort of communities can often be a bit arrogant, but they're rarely any trouble beyond that. It's not a surprise it hasn't caused problems.
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TheGoldenEel posted...

There is a tiny-home community about a block from me, its such a great idea and there should be more of them.

It has not caused any problems in my area that I know of and my property value has significantly increased in value since it was created

I'm not against this idea at all, but from what I've seen tiny homes unfortunately aren't much cheaper than regular homes, though that might be a Portland thing :/

OctilIery posted...

MC_BatCommander posted...

but muh property values

Your apartment property value?

It was a sarcastic response >_>
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MC_BatCommander posted...

OctilIery posted...

MC_BatCommander posted...

but muh property values

Your apartment property value?

It was a sarcastic response >_>

Oh <.<;

You know better than to recklessly apply sarcasm on the internet! :P

It seems cheaper to just let the homeless beg for money on the streets than to pretend that I care about them. I can just blame their lack of bootstraps and take greater pride in my own abilities.

I can't imagine one single benefit to the rest of society that could arise from a reduction in homelessness. Their lack of bootstrap doesn't stop me or anyone else going all sorts of bootstraps on the world.
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It's not enough to succeed in life, others should fail.
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OctilIery posted...

TheGoldenEel posted...

There is a tiny-home community about a block from me, its such a great idea and there should be more of them.

It has not caused any problems in my area that I know of and my property value has significantly increased in value since it was created

I'm not against this idea at all, but from what I've seen tiny homes unfortunately aren't much cheaper than regular homes, though that might be a Portland thing :/

Its probably a Portland thing. These arent for people looking to cut back and live in a tiny home out of some misguided hipster I am

These are small homes built by the local community college that are essentially just a room, and the village has a community bathroom and kitchen. They garden and sell woodwork to help fund it
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TommyG663513 posted...

It seems cheaper to just let the homeless beg for money on the streets than to pretend that I care about them. I can just blame their lack of bootstraps and take greater pride in my own abilities.

I can't imagine one single benefit to the rest of society that could arise from a reduction in homelessness. Their lack of bootstrap doesn't stop me or anyone else going all sorts of bootstraps on the world.

It costs the community way more to have them living on the street.

OctilIery posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

It seems cheaper to just let the homeless beg for money on the streets than to pretend that I care about them. I can just blame their lack of bootstraps and take greater pride in my own abilities.

I can't imagine one single benefit to the rest of society that could arise from a reduction in homelessness. Their lack of bootstrap doesn't stop me or anyone else going all sorts of bootstraps on the world.

It costs the community way more to have them living on the street.

Yeah I know. I was attempting to be sarcastic. I felt my overuse of the term bootstraps properly conveyed that, because I rarely if ever hear someone seriously use the term.

At the very least, homeless veterans should all be given free housing. It's an embarrassment that people spout support the troops yet let veteran homelessness be such a problem.

But I agree with the premise that we need to get all homeless individuals into homes for the betterment of society.
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How is giving them a gome going to get them food, pay bills and maintain themselves? (Unless they sell them)
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samurai bandit posted...

How is giving them a gome going to get them food, pay bills and maintain themselves? (Unless they sell them)

Part of the idea is to get a social worker on their case to help them improve their lives starting with a residence.
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OctilIery posted...

The medical and legal costs they bring up

You realize the people you're trying to convince would be fine with reducing these costs in other, less humanitarian ways, right?
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Have you factored in the additional costs caused by becoming a homelessness magnet?
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samurai bandit posted...

How is giving them a gome going to get them food, pay bills and maintain themselves? (Unless they sell them)

Because without a home, gettin anything stable going is incredibly difficult. Especially when it comes to getting a job. It also tends to make them much healthier, physically and mentally, allowing them to address problems that got them homeless in the first place.

Build more shelters. Focus some more of the budget on that. California was boasting about all the surplus cash they have yet they have the biggest homeless problem in the states.
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if you give people all the necessities for free, no one would have any incentive to work
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Philoktetes posted...

if you give people all the necessities for free, no one would have any incentive to work

This has been proven false time and time again. People tend to want to work, which is why universal basic income doesn't usually cause unemployment to skyrocket when it's implemented.

Middle hope posted...

Build more shelters. Focus some more of the budget on that. California was boasting about all the surplus cash they have yet they have the biggest homeless problem in the states.

Shelters don't fix the problem. They're a bandaid. They get people off the street but don't give them a permanent, fixed address, so many of the problems of homelessness remain.

Whats most infuriating is when the homeless build communities or start living in the woods the police bust that shit up.
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Let's just follow DS9's lead and push all of the homeless into blighted areas of cities and let them occupy the abandoned buildings in those districts until someone is ready to actually do something meaningful that will solve all of the real problems behind chronic homelessness (the kind not solved by simply just giving them a permanent address).
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send them all to detroit, tons of abandoned homes out there

im not interested in the state seizing the fruit of my labor to send it to some crackhead or gangster who doesnt want a job to begin with

and before you whine and get emotional, note that people who are able bodied and homeless (ie not mentally ill and homeless) are capable of getting a job and paying for their own damn housing

it's only a small percentage of the population that is homeless by no fault of their own
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

send them all to detroit, tons of abandoned homes out there

im not interested in the state seizing the fruit of my labor to send it to some crackhead or gangster who doesnt want a job to begin with

and before you whine and get emotional, note that people who are able bodied and homeless (ie not mentally ill and homeless) are capable of getting a job and paying for their own damn housing

it's only a small percentage of the population that is homeless by no fault of their own

Most of the abandoned houses here are burned shells or in so much disrepair, it would be cheaper to tear them down and build new houses than to repair existing ones. That and a lot of those houses are owned still and in the process of being turned into lots to prepare for the coming rebuild in 30 years. They are going to rebuild new neighborhoods and gate them off once they all get bought up.
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Middle hope posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

send them all to detroit, tons of abandoned homes out there

im not interested in the state seizing the fruit of my labor to send it to some crackhead or gangster who doesnt want a job to begin with

and before you whine and get emotional, note that people who are able bodied and homeless (ie not mentally ill and homeless) are capable of getting a job and paying for their own damn housing

it's only a small percentage of the population that is homeless by no fault of their own

Most of the abandoned houses here are burned shells or in so much disrepair, it would be cheaper to tear them down and build new houses than to repair existing ones. That and a lot of those houses are owned still and in the process of being turned into lots to prepare for the coming rebuild in 30 years. They are going to rebuild new neighborhoods and gate them off once they all get bought up.

fair next, it is their property.

oh wait i forgot im on CE where CEmen believe everyone should live in giant skyscraper apartment buildings packed like sardines, like this:

https://rumorsontheinternets.org/2010/10/14/magnasanti-the-largest-and-most-terrifying-simcity/
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

send them all to detroit, tons of abandoned homes out there

im not interested in the state seizing the fruit of my labor to send it to some crackhead or gangster who doesnt want a job to begin with

and before you whine and get emotional, note that people who are able bodied and homeless (ie not mentally ill and homeless) are capable of getting a job and paying for their own damn housing

it's only a small percentage of the population that is homeless by no fault of their own

Nothing would be seized from you for this. In fact, LESS would be seized as your taxes would stop being wasted.

Says more about our medical costs tbh
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Returning_CEmen posted...

Says more about our medical costs tbh

True

OctilIery posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

send them all to detroit, tons of abandoned homes out there

im not interested in the state seizing the fruit of my labor to send it to some crackhead or gangster who doesnt want a job to begin with

and before you whine and get emotional, note that people who are able bodied and homeless (ie not mentally ill and homeless) are capable of getting a job and paying for their own damn housing

it's only a small percentage of the population that is homeless by no fault of their own

Nothing would be seized from you for this. In fact, LESS would be seized as your taxes would stop being wasted.

that's not how that works buddy
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Paragon21XX posted...

Let's just follow DS9's lead and push all of the homeless into blighted areas of cities and let them occupy the abandoned buildings in those districts until someone is ready to actually do something meaningful that will solve all of the real problems behind chronic homelessness (the kind not solved by simply just giving them a permanent address).

We already have sanctuary cities, though.

I vote soylent green. Turn the homeless into protein filled free-lunches for our under/malnourished youth.

Two birds, one stone. I'm a fucking visionary and you know it.
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Middle hope posted...

Build more shelters. Focus some more of the budget on that. California was boasting about all the surplus cash they have yet they have the biggest homeless problem in the states.

in town they have a homeless shelter that the homeless can use for the night. doesn't help the fact they beg for money to buy drugs and alcohol for the remainder of the day (they seem to like to congregate around the safeway day by day) and i have to walk across the grass so i can get through.

right now the northwest is dealing with a housing crisis though, despite the fact they're trying to build more apartments.
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part of the reason medical costs are so high is because poor people go to the ER and dont intend to pay, so they have to push those costs onto everyone else

if we closed the loophole that the ER is required to see you irregardless of your ability to pay, it would lower costs for honest customers
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they already have something in place. the urgent care if there's something that isn't an emergency. probably not even charged as much for a visit. even an ER visit they charge 200$ just to enter the door.

i'm still on the hook for 1.5k dollars for the fact i had a seizure and then the ambulance drive. i woke up about 1 hour later and i was fine for the most part except for my broken back.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

that's not how that works buddy

It actually is.

Philoktetes posted...

part of the reason medical costs are so high is because poor people go to the ER and dont intend to pay, so they have to push those costs onto everyone else

if we closed the loophole that the ER is required to see you irregardless of your ability to pay, it would lower costs for honest customers

We have that loophole because your ability to not die shouldn't be dependent on how much money you have. It isn't a loophole, it's a necessity.