Poll of the Day > Is Castlevania: SOTN an RPG?

(+) Yeah! (+)

You have stats and get new equipment.
---

I say no, it has strategic elements seen in many games regarded as RPGs, but to me a role playing game has to have character driven options that have a clear affect on the narrative of the game.
---

Mead posted...

I say no, it has strategic elements seen in many games regarded as RPGs, but to me a role playing game has to have character driven options that have a clear affect on the narrative of the game.

So jrpgs aren't rpgs to you then? I agree otherwise sotn simply has rpg elements.
---

mooreandrew58 posted...

Mead posted...

I say no, it has strategic elements seen in many games regarded as RPGs, but to me a role playing game has to have character driven options that have a clear affect on the narrative of the game.

So jrpgs aren't rpgs to you then? I agree otherwise sotn simply has rpg elements.

Many of them I dont consider to be RPGs, which I know seems bizarre to a lot of folks because there have been decades of everyone calling them that
---

Mead: the definer of genres
---

Mead posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

Mead posted...

I say no, it has strategic elements seen in many games regarded as RPGs, but to me a role playing game has to have character driven options that have a clear affect on the narrative of the game.

So jrpgs aren't rpgs to you then? I agree otherwise sotn simply has rpg elements.

Many of them I dont consider to be RPGs, which I know seems bizarre to a lot of folks because there have been decades of everyone calling them that

In a way I agree but I've always been the if everyone else calls it that I won't argue mentality.

Though the first final fantasy was based on D&D so IDK...
---

idk, never played any of them
---

Lots of games let you grow your character and they aren't all RPG's, so I'm gonna say no.
---

DPsx7 posted...

Lots of games let you grow your character and they aren't all RPG's, so I'm gonna say no.

Like what.
---

Cotton_Eye_Joe posted...

DPsx7 posted...

Lots of games let you grow your character and they aren't all RPG's, so I'm gonna say no.

Like what.

Legend of Zelda 2. Hell legend of Zelda in general if you want to just count gaining more health. Same with Metroid which has a lot in common with sotn.
---

To me, an RPG is defined by creating a character of some form (or a group of them) and being able to control how they develop in the game.

You pretty much take on the role of the character.

Even if you don't have dialog options, if you can play the game different ways, and create a character with different powers it's an RPG.

It doesn't JUST have to be an RPG though.

SoTN is an Action RPG, a side scroller in fact which is basically my favorite type of RPG.

Diablo 3....is....kinda an RPG I guess...but I would consider SOTN more of one and certainly more fun.

Meanwhile Diablo 2 has way better RPG elements and lasted me for years because of it. Tons of ways you could build, and play your characters.
---

wolfy42 posted...

To me, an RPG is defined by creating a character of some form (or a group of them) and being able to control how they develop in the game.

You pretty much take on the role of the character.

Even if you don't have dialog options, if you can play the game different ways, and create a character with different powers it's an RPG.

It doesn't JUST have to be an RPG though.

SoTN is an Action RPG, a side scroller in fact which is basically my favorite type of RPG.

Diablo 3....is....kinda an RPG I guess...but I would consider SOTN more of one and certainly more fun.

Meanwhile Diablo 2 has way better RPG elements and lasted me for years because of it. Tons of ways you could build, and play your characters.

Rpgs are like the rock genre of video games. So many sub genres and you could go on all day just in metal sub genres alone.

Tack on stats/leveling up and boom your game has rpg elements which in turn will make some call it a rpg.

Though personally there needs to be more than just leveling up/stats for me.

Like borderlands for example, they have different characters that act as different classes and have 3 skill trees unique to each. So 2 people could play the same character but they be completely different builds.

But on the surface it looks like a standard fps game with a different art style
---

Metroidvanias are RPGs, yes.
---

TallTamryu posted...

Metroidvanias are RPGs, yes.

I never really considered Metroid games to be rpgs. To me it came off as a side scroller action game that also managed to have an exploration aspect
---

I say no, because I think an RPG should include dialogue trees that allow for some amount of roleplaying. Gear, and even stats, are secondary to that IMO. (Though stats DO help with the roleplaying, as long as they're not just purely combat-focused.)

So I'll also argue that like, Mass Effect 2 is a perfectly fine RPG, while Dark Souls and Diablo are more action games with RPG elements
---

Cotton_Eye_Joe posted...

DPsx7 posted...

Lots of games let you grow your character and they aren't all RPG's, so I'm gonna say no.

Like what.

Megaman, Zelda, R&C, Infamous, there are too many ways to improve besides rolling stats.
---

Nope. It has some RPG elements, but it's not an RPG.
---

SotN has the following:

Gear
Stats
Levels

It blows my mind when people consider Zelda an RPG but not this game.
---

Anyone that thinks the Zelda games are RPGs are off their gourds
---

Mead posted...

Anyone that thinks the Zelda games are RPGs are off their gourds

Zelda and SoTN are both what I would consider action games.
---

borderline but not really.

primary gameplay is based on power-up items rather than levelling-up through experience.

the familiars do level up, however, that is a secondary mechanic rather than primary
---

very borderline. At most it's an action rpg. I consider it an action platformer with rpg elements.

I just consider metriod to be an action platformer
---

mooreandrew58 posted...

TallTamryu posted...

Metroidvanias are RPGs, yes.

I never really considered Metroid games to be rpgs. To me it came off as a side scroller action game that also managed to have an exploration aspect

Strictly speaking I don't consider Metroid games to be Metroidvanias, though it seems like they'll call any Metroid-like game a Metroidvania even if it doesn't have RPG elements.

To me an RPG is pretty much anything where your character's ability is based highly on visible stats, excluding very basic numbers like items that double/halve something

Chewster posted...

To me an RPG is pretty much anything where your character's ability is based highly on visible stats, excluding very basic numbers like items that double/halve something

https://sotnhacked.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/sotn-hacked-menu-with-borders.png
Big old thonk here
---

Games with RPG elements are not RPGs.
This logic doesn't count when I call basically ever not turn based game an Action game, and shouldn't apply here either.
---

It has some RPG elements. "RPG" isn't a genre of its own.

_AdjI_ posted...

"RPG" isn't a genre of its own.

i disagree
---

shadowsword87 posted...

Chewster posted...

To me an RPG is pretty much anything where your character's ability is based highly on visible stats, excluding very basic numbers like items that double/halve something

https://sotnhacked.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/sotn-hacked-menu-with-borders.png
Big old thonk here

I don't know what that means

No. RPGs to me are games where there people you must speak to to advance a plot.

In SOTN there is like one instance this happens.

RPGs have puzzles that also advance the plot. SOTN has no mandatory puzzles, just items you collect in place of that.

RPGs typically have lots of dialogue and cutscenes. SOTN does not. I think i can recall all the dialogue in the game because there isnt much.
---

Chewster posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

TallTamryu posted...

Metroidvanias are RPGs, yes.

I never really considered Metroid games to be rpgs. To me it came off as a side scroller action game that also managed to have an exploration aspect

Strictly speaking I don't consider Metroid games to be Metroidvanias, though it seems like they'll call any Metroid-like game a Metroidvania even if it doesn't have RPG elements.

To me an RPG is pretty much anything where your character's ability is based highly on visible stats, excluding very basic numbers like items that double/halve something

Doesn't think Metroid is a metroidvania despite Metroid being the main part of the genre name.... Okaay then....
---

I thought Metroidvania was originally used just to refer to Castlevania games that had a non-linear map style like Metroid. I don't think it became its own genre until indie games in the style started to get popular, and it seems like a lot of people like to now apply the Metroidvania label to Metroid games, but it doesn't fit IMO. I think there's a difference between "Metroid-like" and "Metroidvania" but they all just get lumped together nowadays.

Metroidvanias are games where you explore to unlock parts of a map, and back track with a newly obtain item or skill to advance the map.

Most metroidvanias are 2d

I don't know when the term became widely used, but obviously the term came from the Metroid games and the iga Castlevania games. I also think the term came about because the castlevania series was pumping out metroidvanias while Nintendo was really slow to make Metroid games
---

Is the choice between cut or uncut enough to make something an RPG
---

Jeez guys, the first RPGs had almost no story at all, and it was all creating characters and building a party etc. Yes it was turn based and not action based, but Wizardry/Bards Tale etc were the start of the generes (for video games).

Meanwhile you eventually have games like Zelda that came out, still consider that an RPG (one of the first action RPGs actually), you couldn't "level up" in Zelda 1 at least (you could in 2) but you could get different equipment, armor, use potions, talk to players, use different items, solve puzzles etc.

They redefined games a bit eventually and many RPG games because "action" games (some call zelda that). Zelda 2, Links adventures had real stats you could level up, it also let you kinda choose the order you did things, had exp etc. It is still my favorite Zelda in fact.

There are many things that make up an RPG, and therefore, if some of those "elements" are part of a game, it can be a hybrid. An Action RPG (my favorite), a First Person Shooter RPG (Borederlands...also freaking great), Puzzle RPGs (tons of em) etc etc.

A role playing game in theory could include just about any game where you ....take on a role of a character, or more then one character. Even games like Contra etc, could in theory count just because your taking on the role of the characters in that game. RPGs have just been broken down into different categories, doesn't make the sub categories not RPGs anymore.
---

Its a Sports Title..
---

wolfy42 posted...

Jeez guys, the first RPGs had almost no story at all, and it was all creating characters and building a party etc. Yes it was turn based and not action based, but Wizardry/Bards Tale etc were the start of the generes (for video games).

Meanwhile you eventually have games like Zelda that came out, still consider that an RPG (one of the first action RPGs actually), you couldn't "level up" in Zelda 1 at least (you could in 2) but you could get different equipment, armor, use potions, talk to players, use different items, solve puzzles etc.

They redefined games a bit eventually and many RPG games because "action" games (some call zelda that). Zelda 2, Links adventures had real stats you could level up, it also let you kinda choose the order you did things, had exp etc. It is still my favorite Zelda in fact.

There are many things that make up an RPG, and therefore, if some of those "elements" are part of a game, it can be a hybrid. An Action RPG (my favorite), a First Person Shooter RPG (Borederlands...also freaking great), Puzzle RPGs (tons of em) etc etc.

A role playing game in theory could include just about any game where you ....take on a role of a character, or more then one character. Even games like Contra etc, could in theory count just because your taking on the role of the characters in that game. RPGs have just been broken down into different categories, doesn't make the sub categories not RPGs anymore.

Oh you are one of those that use rpg in such a loose term it might as well not even exist as a genre name since 99% of games fit the definition

On the story part early rpgs I'm sure had plenty of story, but they weren't video games. I'm talking dungeons and dragons. Early video game rpgs where inspired by that table top game but lacked the technology to even come close the freedom of choices and stories in it.
---

mooreandrew58 posted...

wolfy42 posted...

Jeez guys, the first RPGs had almost no story at all, and it was all creating characters and building a party etc. Yes it was turn based and not action based, but Wizardry/Bards Tale etc were the start of the generes (for video games).

Meanwhile you eventually have games like Zelda that came out, still consider that an RPG (one of the first action RPGs actually), you couldn't "level up" in Zelda 1 at least (you could in 2) but you could get different equipment, armor, use potions, talk to players, use different items, solve puzzles etc.

They redefined games a bit eventually and many RPG games because "action" games (some call zelda that). Zelda 2, Links adventures had real stats you could level up, it also let you kinda choose the order you did things, had exp etc. It is still my favorite Zelda in fact.

There are many things that make up an RPG, and therefore, if some of those "elements" are part of a game, it can be a hybrid. An Action RPG (my favorite), a First Person Shooter RPG (Borederlands...also freaking great), Puzzle RPGs (tons of em) etc etc.

A role playing game in theory could include just about any game where you ....take on a role of a character, or more then one character. Even games like Contra etc, could in theory count just because your taking on the role of the characters in that game. RPGs have just been broken down into different categories, doesn't make the sub categories not RPGs anymore.

Oh you are one of those that use rpg in such a loose term it might as well not even exist as a genre name since 99% of games fit the definition

On the story part early rpgs I'm sure had plenty of story, but they weren't video games. I'm talking dungeons and dragons. Early video game rpgs where inspired by that table top game but lacked the technology to even come close the freedom of choices and stories in it.

And that's why I say RPG isn't a video game genre of its own. The defining trait of the tabletop role-playing games is the complete, open-ended freedom afforded by role-playing as a creative medium. You can do that in video games, but only if they almost completely lack defined structure, at which point they're more typically considered sandbox games. When you start putting defined structure into games, you get away from the freedom of truly role-playing. You can offer some of that freedom with varying degrees of role-playing elements (character customization, the ability to influence the story/world, etc.), but for the most part, you just aren't going to get a true RPG in video game form. Ergo, everything that people call RPG's are just games from other, better-fitting genres, plus some degree of RP elements.

_AdjI_ posted...

The defining trait of the tabletop role-playing games is the complete, open-ended freedom afforded by role-playing as a creative medium

Mmmmmm...
No.

You should really play some TTRPGs if you think it's completely open ended.
---

There are people who play table top rpgs like D&D that don't like to role play character drama as much (just the bare basics) but instead prefer to roleplay all combat aspects.

They're still playing an RPG. They level up stats, get new equipment and such.

Jrpgs, western RPGs, action rpgs, etc. They're all rpgs more focused on different aspects.

I wouldn't consider every game an rpg. Spyro, for example, wouldn't be an rpg. The terms not that loose.

I wouldn't consider Metroid an RPG either. Whether or not you call it Metroidvania, is a different discussion.

But in the case of SotN, sure it's an rpg by the definition you have stats and your eqipment can affect those stats.
---

Final Fantasy2389 posted...

There are people who play table top rpgs like D&D that don't like to role play character drama as much (just the bare basics) but instead prefer to roleplay all combat aspects.

They're still playing an RPG. They level up stats, get new equipment and such.

Jrpgs, western RPGs, action rpgs, etc. They're all rpgs more focused on different aspects.

I wouldn't consider every game an rpg. Spyro, for example, wouldn't be an rpg. The terms not that loose.

I wouldn't consider Metroid an RPG either. Whether or not you call it Metroidvania, is a different discussion.

But in the case of SotN, sure it's an rpg by the definition you have stats and your eqipment can affect those stats.

By this logic all modern sports games are RPGs because you manage stats
---

Mead posted...

Final Fantasy2389 posted...

There are people who play table top rpgs like D&D that don't like to role play character drama as much (just the bare basics) but instead prefer to roleplay all combat aspects.

They're still playing an RPG. They level up stats, get new equipment and such.

Jrpgs, western RPGs, action rpgs, etc. They're all rpgs more focused on different aspects.

I wouldn't consider every game an rpg. Spyro, for example, wouldn't be an rpg. The terms not that loose.

I wouldn't consider Metroid an RPG either. Whether or not you call it Metroidvania, is a different discussion.

But in the case of SotN, sure it's an rpg by the definition you have stats and your eqipment can affect those stats.

By this logic all modern sports games are RPGs because you manage stats

But you don't have equipment that affects those stats (usually). If you could buy new gear, sure, it has RPG elements.
But most sports titles, while you can level the stats of players (like in Madden), it's not based on gear you can obtain and collect.

You seem to have missed that part of my post. Where I specifically mention gear.
---

Final Fantasy2389 posted...

Mead posted...

Final Fantasy2389 posted...

There are people who play table top rpgs like D&D that don't like to role play character drama as much (just the bare basics) but instead prefer to roleplay all combat aspects.

They're still playing an RPG. They level up stats, get new equipment and such.

Jrpgs, western RPGs, action rpgs, etc. They're all rpgs more focused on different aspects.

I wouldn't consider every game an rpg. Spyro, for example, wouldn't be an rpg. The terms not that loose.

I wouldn't consider Metroid an RPG either. Whether or not you call it Metroidvania, is a different discussion.

But in the case of SotN, sure it's an rpg by the definition you have stats and your eqipment can affect those stats.

By this logic all modern sports games are RPGs because you manage stats

But you don't have equipment that affects those stats (usually). If you could buy new gear, sure, it has RPG elements.
But most sports titles, while you can level the stats of players (like in Madden), it's not based on gear you can obtain and collect.

You seem to have missed that part of my post. Where I specifically mention gear.

Playing dress up doesnt make it an RPG either. Link changes his tunic but that doesnt mean Zelda is anything more than an adventure game
---

God damn I still hate genre bitching.
After all the time, it's awful.
---

Final Fantasy2389 posted...

There are people who play table top rpgs like D&D that don't like to role play character drama as much (just the bare basics) but instead prefer to roleplay all combat aspects.

They're still playing an RPG. They level up stats, get new equipment and such.

Jrpgs, western RPGs, action rpgs, etc. They're all rpgs more focused on different aspects.

I wouldn't consider every game an rpg. Spyro, for example, wouldn't be an rpg. The terms not that loose.

I wouldn't consider Metroid an RPG either. Whether or not you call it Metroidvania, is a different discussion.

But in the case of SotN, sure it's an rpg by the definition you have stats and your eqipment can affect those stats.

Yeah imo metroidvania is more the fact it's a adventure to some degree with backtracking. You go along like a normal action game but you come across places you can't access and come back later when you earned new abilities. Also tends to have secret areas to access in my experience (that you need upgrades to access)
---

Don't you literally level up in this game? How is that not RPG?
---

AltOmega posted...

Don't you literally level up in this game? How is that not RPG?

It kinda is, alongside Zelda 2.

Action Platforming RPG, yes.
---

Questionmarktarius posted...

AltOmega posted...

Don't you literally level up in this game? How is that not RPG?

It kinda is, alongside Zelda 2.

I agree, Zelda 2 is definitely an RPG though I don't think the same can be said for the rest of the titles in that series.
---

Mead posted...

I say no, it has strategic elements seen in many games regarded as RPGs, but to me a role playing game has to have character driven options that have a clear affect on the narrative of the game.

So then why is Harvest Moon considered an RPG?

AltOmega posted...

Don't you literally level up in this game? How is that not RPG?

Yeah if you level up it technically is an RPG. I don't really consider Mass Effect an RPG but it falls under that. Assassin's Creed Odyssey is an action RPG too.
---

Mass Effect and the newest Assassin's Creed definitely seem like RPGs.
---