Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 189: Flip or Flop

(+) Yeah! (+)

red sox 777 posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Heres what my link without description was about:

The governments top official overseeing the $1.5 trillion student loan market resigned in protest on Monday, citing what he says is the White Houses open hostility toward protecting the nations millions of student loan borrowers.

Someone tell the president that they can't discharge it in bankruptcy. That'll elicit sympathy.

Youre one of the more pragmatic people here. How do we fix this?

Run up the deficit to 200% of GDP, then declare bankruptcy.

A global economic meltdown sure is one idea...!
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TotallyNotMI posted...

Corrik posted...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/27/politics/mexico-us-trade-deal/index.html

Fun thread on this:
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1034102632653172737

It would be nice if we had a president who had even the most basic knowledge on a topic before he opened his mouth. Hopefully the people actually negotiating the agreement can get all 3 countries on board before he finds a way to torpedo it.
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lordloki12 posted...

TotallyNotMI posted...

Corrik posted...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/27/politics/mexico-us-trade-deal/index.html

Fun thread on this:
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1034102632653172737

It would be nice if we had a president who had even the most basic knowledge on a topic before he opened his mouth. Hopefully the people actually negotiating the agreement can get all 3 countries on board before he finds a way to torpedo it.

Canada wasn't joining the talks until Mexico and the USA worked out their impasse. It literally says that in the first link.
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Corrik posted...

lordloki12 posted...

TotallyNotMI posted...

Corrik posted...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/27/politics/mexico-us-trade-deal/index.html

Fun thread on this:
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1034102632653172737

It would be nice if we had a president who had even the most basic knowledge on a topic before he opened his mouth. Hopefully the people actually negotiating the agreement can get all 3 countries on board before he finds a way to torpedo it.

Canada wasn't joining the talks until Mexico and the USA worked out their impasse. It literally says that in the first link.

That is not what the first link says at all and I am interested in how you came to that conclusion.
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lordloki12 posted...

Corrik posted...

lordloki12 posted...

TotallyNotMI posted...

Corrik posted...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/27/politics/mexico-us-trade-deal/index.html

Fun thread on this:
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1034102632653172737

It would be nice if we had a president who had even the most basic knowledge on a topic before he opened his mouth. Hopefully the people actually negotiating the agreement can get all 3 countries on board before he finds a way to torpedo it.

Canada wasn't joining the talks until Mexico and the USA worked out their impasse. It literally says that in the first link.

That is not what the first link says at all and I am interested in how you came to that conclusion.

Article has been "updated" apparently.

From memory, before it said now that this hurdle is complete that Canada would rejoin the talks and they hope to have a whole agreement in several weeks. And that if Canada wasn't interested they would just do the deal themselves. In a nutshell.
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Yeah it looks like the article was updated a few hours after you posted it. I know they have been in talks with Canada off and on this whole time and it sounds like Mexico wants them to be in it as well. I guess we will find out by the end of the week if Mexico agreed to do this deal 1 on 1 or if they assumed Canada would be joining in.
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I am not too happy about Trump's lack of respect for McCain upon his death. And that Senate hopeful from Arizona is a real piece of work also
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Does it actually surprise you though?
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Corrik posted...

I am not too happy about Trump's lack of respect for McCain upon his death. And that Senate hopeful from Arizona is a real piece of work also

She still has the primaries so hopefully she just doesn't win and this is the last we hear from her.

And while disappointing I am not surprised by Trump's tepid response. He hated McCain and does a horrendous job hiding his emotions.
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Corrik posted...

I am not too happy about Trump's lack of respect for McCain upon his death. And that Senate hopeful from Arizona is a real piece of work also

Polls seem to indicate that Ward is gonna lose handily to McSally (especially since she has to split the crazy vote with Arpaio)
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https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/nbc-wsj-poll-trump-approval-remarkably-stable-after-stormy-week-n903626

They also were divided on what bothers them more a Democratic candidate who supports House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosis policies (47 percent), or a Republican candidate who supports Trumps policies (45 percent).

Democrats hate Nancy Pelosi more than Trump, which I find fucking hilarious.
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Thats actually a very informative link [REDACTED] just posted, for those that dont have him blocked

Of course he cant read it properly but thats to be expected
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https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1034245496590745601?s=21

Fun news network coverage comparison
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1034245496590745601?s=21

Fun news network coverage comparison

I see Fox News is doing a story about how automation is a major threat to jobs and therefore we need to adopt social and economic policies aimed at making sure that everyone has a living wage, good for them! This is a very important topic that should be covered.

Some news roundup for the day on some stories of interest I saw that I don't think have come up here (brace for NEWS):

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https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1034205856001392640

https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/1034208232128966659

Federal Court rules that NC's Congressional map is unconstitutional and throws it out. It's possible the court will order that the 2018 midterms be held under new map. If so, Silver thinks it's probably about +2 to Dems in the House but cautions that the margin for error is high since it's such a late development. Speaking of that, that itself is full of irony because the NC GOP cancelled primaries in some elections thinking it would help them in 2018 so the court in its ruling was like, "Yeah, this is a late development but this is consistent with the General Assembly's actions. They didn't think primaries were necessary."

Not a done deal at all, among other things, an emergency stay will certainly be requested, but SCOTUS could split 4-4 on issuing one and so... not grant it. Etc.

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https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1034186365792079872

Looks like there will be a Ronan Farrow story breaking soon that Stone told Trump in October 2016 that Wikileaks had and would dump Podesta's E-Mails. Stone himself admitted such a story is coming to it so it sounds like it's at the "reached out for comment stage." To make things even more interesting, Farrow himself then retweeted an earlier tweet from himself that essentially states, "I don't comment on stuff I'm doing before its released so if you see someone who has an angle to spin an upcoming story you're probably not getting the full or complete story" so uhhh... sounds like there may be a lot more to this given that's what we got from Stone himself.

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Article (WSJ Paywall strikes me again): https://www.wsj.com/articles/manafort-sought-deal-in-next-trial-but-talks-broke-down-1535404819

Tweet: https://twitter.com/rebeccaballhaus/status/1034198222707732480

Manafort's defense team went to Mueller looking to make a plea deal for the upcoming DC Case but talks broke down.

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Okay, not really a story per se, but this struck a chord with me because I recall a good number of topics earlier ago in a discussion stating my lack of trust in Greenwald when used as a source and while I didn't go much further into it at the time, this does a good job of illustrating much of why that is. The article in the tweet itself is massive but this tweet says a lot in a lot less: https://twitter.com/NoahShachtman/status/1034114663666081792

Simultaneously implies the Russian influence on the election is overblown and then says "Even if it's all true it's 'standard ****'."

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Then more standard, unsurprising stuff like Trump still bringing up pardoning Manafort despite his General Counsel going "noooooooooo dude" and floating the idea of bringing in a new lawyer to draft it if he won't. And refusing to comment on McCain and just staying silent on at least four different occasions where he was asked by the press. GOP Senator (Inhofe) saying McCain is "partly to blame" for the WH flag stuff.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Thats actually a very informative link [REDACTED] just posted, for those that dont have him blocked

Of course he cant read it properly but thats to be expected

Nah I can read it fine, thanks, but I appreciate the typical liberal smug behavior.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF9gpvI2UfU" data-time="

I don't want to hear one single democrat try claiming Trump fixing NAFTA is a bad idea, either. He is literally doing the exact thing Obama promised to do in 2007. Like the literal exact same thing.
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You were attributing statements about all voters to Democrats, so you might want to read it again
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No I read it just fine, thanks.
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Let's just compromise and say it was a presidential reading. Like when Trump said a poll found he had a 54% (or some number over 50, trying to recall from memory) approval rating and it turned out that was the disapproval number a few days ago.
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xp1337 posted...

Let's just compromise and say it was a presidential reading. Like when Trump said a poll found he had a 54% (or some number over 50, trying to recall from memory) approval rating and it turned out that was the disapproval number a few days ago.

^5
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https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2018/08/report-saudi-king-salman-blocked-public-listing-aramco-180827180323085.html?__twitter_impression=true

Saudi no longer listing Saudi Aramco on the stock market as they had planned to for a while now. King said no.

Bit of a blow for MBS. It was arguably a move to consolidate power (anyone rising against him would cause instablity and hence lower the stock price) which he'll now no longer be able to do.
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xp1337 posted...

Let's just compromise and say it was a presidential reading.

So somebody lying out of their fucking ass?
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1034373707047882759

Google & others are suppressing voices of Conservatives and hiding information and news that is good. They are controlling what we can & cannot see.

uh no don. YOU are controlling what we "can & cannot see."
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I think the example I provided made it very clear what I meant!
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1034373707047882759

Google & others are suppressing voices of Conservatives and hiding information and news that is good. They are controlling what we can & cannot see.

uh no don. YOU are controlling what we "can & cannot see."

Big tech has outright admitted to censoring conservative views.
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Geeze I wonder what's on Infowars front page right now?

"YouTube Meddles in Swedish Election by Deleting Right-Wing Content"

Shocking
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Bleh, if we really want to talk about this aside from how gross it is to have the President trying to bully companies like this wrt the First Amendment:

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1034391119545749505

ah yes "left-wing" outlets such as *adjusts glasses* the Associated Press.
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xp1337 posted...

Bleh, if we really want to talk about this aside from how gross it is to have the President trying to bully companies like this wrt the First Amendment:

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1034391119545749505

ah yes "left-wing" outlets such as *adjusts glasses* the Associated Press.

Please tell me I don't see you people denying that these companies censor people after openly cheering for them censoring people whenever a conservative gets banned on social media. This is dumber than asking for Comey to get fired and then complaining when he gets fired. There was congressional hearings and everything.
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xp1337 posted...

I think the example I provided made it very clear what I meant!

So outright say it and don't give him the benefit of the doubt.
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lmao what exactly do you think i was saying there?

guess you guys are killing my dream of a career in comedy

(How in the world do you think I was giving the benefit of the doubt there?)
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I'm very much not in the mood for jokes. Crap like "presidential readings" and "alternative facts" ceased to be funny a long time ago.
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Okay. Sorry. I'll try to stop then?

Still think you missed the point of what I was doing there. It was really dark humor/cynicism... which is half of what's keeping me going these days. Hell, it hardly qualified as humor at all. I also hoped in the same cynical way it could stop a pointless argument from breaking out.

If you thought it was meant to be a "haha" funny then clearly one or both of us missed the mark. Though I did note with some irony that taking just the part you quoted alone if read differently could pass completely as a joke red sox would make. But again, that is entirely not what I meant by it and the fact that I noticed that comparison could be made was itself some pretty dark commentary in my mind.
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the point is that if facebook/twitter censors conservative views, it doesn't matter. if i want to see infowars shit (saying this site does nothing but publish "conservative views" is being way too kind but i digress) i can still go to infowars.com to get it. if i can't find infowars anywhere anymore then yeah, that's a problem, but that's not the case. the people who whine about facebook and twitter "censoring" stuff are no different than the 13 year olds on this site who go to hellhole to whine about their moderations. "wahhhhhhhh my stupid troll post was deleted my freedom of speech is totally being oppressed!" shut up already.

however, what DOES matter is if the president decides that facebook has to publish infowars stuff. if trump forces private companies to publish certain stuff, the US will become a "the government controls the media" country, like berlusconi's italy. scary as fuck - the country is rapidly approaching dictatorship territory.
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xp1337 posted...

If you thought it was meant to be a "haha" funny then clearly one or both of us missed the mark.

Yeah probably me in that case. Sorry.
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Yeah I didn't read that one right. Oh well.

I don't give a shit about Infowars, but in the long run it's dangerous to censor and deplatform people unless they commit an actual crime. The president is right on this; remember him saying CNN may be fake news, but censoring them is a bad idea? The point here is they're censoring and shadow banning literally any conservative with a following. Remember when Diamond and Silk had their reach reduced to zero and Zuckerberg tried claiming it was an enforcement error? Those "enforcement errors" aren't happening with democrats, and it's no accident.
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UItimaterializer posted...

Yeah I didn't read that one right. Oh well.

I don't give a shit about Infowars, but in the long run it's dangerous to censor and deplatform people unless they commit an actual crime. The president is right on this; remember him saying CNN may be fake news, but censoring them is a bad idea? The point here is they're censoring and shadow banning literally any conservative with a following. Remember when Diamond and Silk had their reach reduced to zero and Zuckerberg tried claiming it was an enforcement error? Those "enforcement errors" aren't happening with democrats, and it's no accident.

Maybe you should stop posting their headlines over and over if you don't care for them. Just a thought.
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If you knew how hard it was relatively to get a conservative hate-page taken down or at least mildly inconvenienced as compared to how easily some Feminist sjw group gets deleted you wouldn't in good conscience think Facebook censors conservative content.

Haven't looked at or listened to them in ages. Not my fault if a headline is something they happen to agree with. The main 'alternative news' things I look at are Drudge and Young Turks. It's a good balance of both sides of the aisle without bothering with corporate trash like Fox News or CNN.

Speaking of Drudge, he linked to this article and was the one that got this out in the first place: https://pjmedia.com/trending/google-search-results-show-pervasive-anti-trump-anti-conservative-bias/

Google and other tech companies are 100% censoring the right. It's not even debatable.
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Reg posted...

xp1337 posted...

If you thought it was meant to be a "haha" funny then clearly one or both of us missed the mark.

Yeah probably me in that case. Sorry.

No worries.

The broader commentary my post was making was that Trump/GOP has so successfully pushed an alternate reality that I could make that post and have it mean two entirely different things to different people. Which calling that a "compromise" is a joke but it's where we seem to be at. I also figured anyone who follows my posts would know which side of that I fall on. That it might stop what I feared could become something that could take over the topic if left alone was a bonus.

but perhaps this is the problem when i think too much about my posts. i mean, not that i sat there and thought "hey let me make a meta commentary" - the thought just appeared spontaneously - but uh it's not something that can really be conveyed well in text. Or maybe it could and I just thought I was cleverer than I really am (this is much more likely.)
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if facebook is banning all conservatives (which isn't really what's happening - stefan molyneux's facebook page is still up, for instance), why don't conservatives make their own facebook and go post there? i find it hilarious how conservatives - who so often go "THE GOVERNMENT IS EVIL" - go to the government to cry for help instead of taking matters into their OWN hands.
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No one has a right to a platform from a private company. Full stop.
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I mean, I'm beyond fed up with having a so-called President that outright and blatantly lies to people without consequence. I'm beyond fed up with the fact that the people who are supposed to hold him accountable (both politicians and the media) are refusing to. I'm beyond fed up with fucking morons that eat up his lies without question because they're incapable of thinking for themselves. And I'm beyond fed up with people who, despite acknowledging the problems of the first three, normalize it all by joking about it and treating it casually.

It's coloring how I read/hear things at the moment and your post fell into the last category for me.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

if facebook is banning all conservatives (which isn't really what's happening - stefan molyneux's facebook page is still up, for instance), why don't conservatives make their own facebook and go post there? i find it hilarious how conservatives - who so often go "THE GOVERNMENT IS EVIL" - go to the government to cry for help instead of taking matters into their OWN hands.

I have always wondered the same thing dude.

Reg posted...

I'm beyond fed up with the fact that the people who are supposed to hold him accountable (both politicians and the media) are refusing to.

......the media doesn't hold Trump accountable?

Is this seriously a post I just read?
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I get it, by its very nature my post could easily be seen as that. I didn't intend it to but it absolutely could be seen that way so I totally understand. I got a bit too defensive at first, that's on me. Sorry.

Like I said, I'm kind of just dragging myself on through spite, cynicism, and bleak, dark humor. Most of what keeps me going is the hope that the midterms bring some kind of accountability back. I already expect that it will fall well short of what it should be and well short of anything approaching true justice but dammit I want to see it happen.

Obviously though, acknowledging the possibility that it doesn't (in this case assume that to be the GOP holding both houses of Congress; it's not the only way but I don't mean to get into a deep discussion of my psyche going into the midterms and the outcomes) probably causes me to break and despair. And I can't say the odds of that are zero. Honestly I probably think they're lower than they truly are but I'll cross that bridge when we get there.
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xp1337 posted...

I get it, by its very nature my post could easily be seen as that. I didn't intend it to but it absolutely could be seen that way so I totally understand. I got a bit too defensive at first, that's on me. Sorry.

Like I said, I'm kind of just dragging myself on through spite, cynicism, and bleak, dark humor. Most of what keeps me going is the hope that the midterms bring some kind of accountability back. I already expect that it will fall well short of what it should be and well short of anything approaching true justice but dammit I want to see it happen.

Obviously though, acknowledging the possibility that it doesn't (in this case assume that to be the GOP holding both houses of Congress; it's not the only way but I don't mean to get into a deep discussion of my psyche going into the midterms and the outcomes) probably causes me to break and despair. And I can't say the odds of that are zero. Honestly I probably think they're lower than they truly are but I'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Ignorance is bliss. If you turn the TV off and stop giving a fuck, you'll notice the president has virtually no effect on your life.
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Oh, cool, I see Krguman wrote an op-ed yesterday that says a lot of it better than I did.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/27/opinion/trump-republican-party-authoritarianism.html

Though I feel like he's more optimistic than me! Or at least leaving the more pessimistic stuff left unsaid for now.
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That article is slippery slope nonsense.
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UItimaterializer posted...

Ignorance is bliss. If you turn the TV off and stop giving a f***, you'll notice the president has virtually no effect on your life.

If anyone wants to know the definition of privilege...
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Jakyl25 posted...

UItimaterializer posted...

Ignorance is bliss. If you turn the TV off and stop giving a f***, you'll notice the president has virtually no effect on your life.

If anyone wants to know the definition of privilege...

Nah, this is.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/10/style/the-man-who-knew-too-little.html
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Jakyl25 posted...

If anyone wants to know the definition of privilege...

I think that's off in the same way that saying all rectangles are square would be.

Certainly you would need to be in a position of privilege to believe that, but at the same time you can be in a position of privilege and still have empathy for those who aren't.
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