Current Events > Aerith is sneaky and manipulative

(+) Yeah! (+)

Kids were playing in her flower patch later in the game. If this was something more then just flowers that would not be in the game .
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scar the 1 posted...

spikethedevil posted...

Except the game doesn't use it as a euphamism at all. If she wasn't literally selling flowers then they would be.

Lol, so you actually don't get it

Ok lets make this very simple just because something can be used as a euphemism doesn't make every use of that phrase a euphemism especially when it's literally someones fucking literal job title.
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spikethedevil posted...

Aeris is a translation error it has been Aerith in everything since.

translation error or no, its still superior and still the original
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spikethedevil posted...

scar the 1 posted...

spikethedevil posted...

Except the game doesn't use it as a euphamism at all. If she wasn't literally selling flowers then they would be.

Lol, so you actually don't get it

Ok lets make this very simple just because something can be used as a euphemism doesn't make every use of that phrase a euphemism especially when it's literally someones fucking literal job title.

OK let's make this very simple: When it comes to any art form, truth lies in the eye of the beholder. If I think a painting looks like a duck, and I have a reasonable explanation for why it's so, the interpretation that it looks like a duck is valid. Others might think the same painting looks like something else. That can also be valid. There is no absolute truth, and (I know this is a controversial thing to say in a place like this) the painter/author doesn't really have a say. The painter might have intended the painting to look like one thing, but that doesn't in any way invalidate another interpretation.
In the case of FF VII, the context is that there's a girl living in the slums, and she's known for selling flowers. In Japan, selling flowers is a euphemism for selling sex. Is it thus a reasonable interpretation that she is, indeed, a prostitute, but the narrator chooses to use a euphemism rather than spell it out? Actually, yes. It makes sense. This is a story where the player is told a number of things that turn out not to be true, so we learn that the point of view isn't reliable. Additionally, the narrative is from Cloud's point of view, and we know he likes Aerith so it makes sense for him to use a nice euphemism. Like mentioned before, it also fits with her demeanor surrounding the whole Honey Bee Inn incident.

But remember, this is one interpretation. There is no absolute truth when it comes to consuming fiction. I'm just saying that it fits. And the fact that she "literally sells flowers" in the game isn't in any way an argument against it, since that's part of the fucking euphemism, lol.
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Has this poster never heard of an allegory before?
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COVxy posted...

Has this poster never heard of an allegory before?

IDK, maybe they think that Animal Farm has to actually be about pigs because Stalin literally wasn't in the book?
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How is the game misleading players? Its fairly straightforward with Aeris's story the whole time. There's no deception lol.
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ThatMuttGuy posted...

If anything it's Tifa that fucked up by letting Cloud live with his false memories.

not really, tifa was affected by Cloud's Jenova cell. that cell has the ability to distort memories, not just the host but the people near him too.
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Bryfang posted...

ShroomKingJr posted...

BlueMage279 posted...

Shotgunnova posted...

Trigg3rH4ppy posted...

Aeris*

I used to be on Team Aeris too until I played Crisis Core and realized I was in the wrong. Besides, Aerith makes more sense anyway given what her name is referencing.

VectorChaos posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

She knew the entire time Cloud's memories were false and allowed him to believe them

No, that's Tifa, who never fucking speaks up and just lets Cloud go on with his fucked up memories, which allows Sephiroth to manipulate him at will and leads to disaster.

Seriously, everything bad that happened from the Temple of the Ancients to the North Crater could have probably been avoided if Tifa opened her stupid mouth and got Cloud to sort his shit out

Aeris only starts realizing something is definitely wrong when she starts talking about how much Cloud and Zack were alike on the gondola ride during the date

The guys life is literally a lie. It wasnt just that he was lying, it was that he knew things he had no business knowing. It was a massive can of worms to open and she wasnt mistaken because she said she, felt something bad would happen if she told him, and when she did the guy had a massive breakdown. It took her literally going inside the guys head to make him right again. And on top of that, instead of Psuedo-Zack, now we got the emo weve had in all of the extended universe and spin-offs.

Cloud was better when he thought he was Zack.

He had a breakdown because Sephiroth told him the truth, not her - and because she hadn't, Sephiroth was able to twist the truth and basically break Cloud at the North Crater by convincing him he was another failed Sephiroth clone and not the real Cloud, making him his puppet.

It probably wouldn't be easy confronting him but the alternative is what we got from the end of Disc 1 onwards. So much might have been avoided. After Cloud sorts his shit with Tifa, Sephiroth has no ability to manipulate him anymore.
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scar the 1 posted...

spikethedevil posted...

scar the 1 posted...

spikethedevil posted...

Except the game doesn't use it as a euphamism at all. If she wasn't literally selling flowers then they would be.

Lol, so you actually don't get it

Ok lets make this very simple just because something can be used as a euphemism doesn't make every use of that phrase a euphemism especially when it's literally someones fucking literal job title.

OK let's make this very simple: When it comes to any art form, truth lies in the eye of the beholder. If I think a painting looks like a duck, and I have a reasonable explanation for why it's so, the interpretation that it looks like a duck is valid. Others might think the same painting looks like something else. That can also be valid. There is no absolute truth, and (I know this is a controversial thing to say in a place like this) the painter/author doesn't really have a say. The painter might have intended the painting to look like one thing, but that doesn't in any way invalidate another interpretation.
In the case of FF VII, the context is that there's a girl living in the slums, and she's known for selling flowers. In Japan, selling flowers is a euphemism for selling sex. Is it thus a reasonable interpretation that she is, indeed, a prostitute, but the narrator chooses to use a euphemism rather than spell it out? Actually, yes. It makes sense. This is a story where the player is told a number of things that turn out not to be true, so we learn that the point of view isn't reliable. Additionally, the narrative is from Cloud's point of view, and we know he likes Aerith so it makes sense for him to use a nice euphemism. Like mentioned before, it also fits with her demeanor surrounding the whole Honey Bee Inn incident.

But remember, this is one interpretation. There is no absolute truth when it comes to consuming fiction. I'm just saying that it fits. And the fact that she "literally sells flowers" in the game isn't in any way an argument against it, since that's part of the fucking euphemism, lol.

There is an absolute truth regarding Aerith, and that is that she literally sold flowers and wasn't a prostitute.
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I played that entire game in Japanese. Nothing suggested she was a prostitute. I have no idea why you guys are arguing over something so ridiculous.
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I mean even I don't really buy the prostitute theory. It might be believable if it weren't for the fact that she literally sells flowers on camera during the game and maintains a garden to get the flowers from--in a city where plant life is also really rare. My argument was that she did it as a cover to hide from Shinra forces / Sephiroth. Not that it was doublespeak for prostitution.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

I mean even I don't really buy the prostitute theory. It might be believable if it weren't for the fact that she literally sells flowers on camera during the game and maintains a garden to get the flowers from--in a city where plant life is also really rare. My argument was that she did it as a cover to hide from Shinra forces / Sephiroth. Not that it was doublespeak for prostitution.

No one is saying it's a theory. And again, "she was actually selling flower" isn't an argument against it, lol.
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This flower selling thing is also confusing. I am not aware of any kind of flower selling slang for prostitute. Usually you use for selling spring (spring respresents youth) to talk about prostitution. There is also which just means (female) prostitute. None of those have to do with flowers. No one ever says anything about selling flowers to mean prostitution that I am aware of. Though you can use a specific type of flower, the chrysanthemum as a slang for anal sex prostitution services.
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Tag. This topic is entertaining in more ways than one
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ssjevot posted...

This flower selling thing is also confusing. I am not aware of any kind of flower selling slang for prostitute. Usually you use for selling spring (spring respresents youth) to talk about prostitution. There is also which just means (female) prostitute. None of those have to do with flowers. No one ever says anything about selling flowers to mean prostitution that I am aware of. Though you can use a specific type of flower, the chrysanthemum as a slang for anal sex prostitution services.

Well, I haven't seen any really good sources about it, but here and there on the WordReference forums I find people saying that hana uri () is a euphemism for a prostitute.
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https://kotobank.jp/word/%E8%8A%B1%E5%A3%B2%E3%82%8A-603359

https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/178204/meaning/m0u/

No mention at either. I need to see some kind of Japanese source that suggests this.
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Yomi posted...

Tag. This topic is entertaining in more ways than one

ikr? lol.
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ssjevot posted...

https://kotobank.jp/word/%E8%8A%B1%E5%A3%B2%E3%82%8A-603359

https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/178204/meaning/m0u/

No mention at either. I need to see some kind of Japanese source that suggests this.

Here's what I found after some googling. Seems to be a Japanese native on a language forum. Your mileage may vary :)
https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/flower-girl-woman.3034968/
Specifically yami ni saku hana and hana uri.
Then I found this weird passage in a book:
https://goo.gl/mNRRYk
"Flowers of Japan"/Yamato nadeshiko.
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Actually I found something on Google, and it is about FFVII specifically. Seems like a fan theory, but similar to what is being discharged here.
https://ff7-like.com/aeris-hanauri/
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I don't know about your dictionaries, but typically dictionaries don't really try to catalogue all the euphemisms and common metaphors in a language. So I'm not sure it's the type of thing you would find there, unless your links are more like Japanese equivalents of urban dictionary.
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scar the 1 posted...

I don't know about your dictionaries, but typically dictionaries don't really try to catalogue all the euphemisms and common metaphors in a language. So I'm not sure it's the type of thing you would find there, unless your links are more like Japanese equivalents of urban dictionary.

ehh... I know Dictionary.com captures a lot of informal definitions for english. It probably won't have stupid ass shit like "ligma" defined but if something was as common as slang for prostitute it probably would be in there.

For example, they have the english definition of Flower Girl here, despite the fact that it's literally a title / occupation / made up of two words and not really a word itself.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/flower-girl?s=t

If you take a look at something conventional, for example...
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/square?s=t

You'll see that definition 7 is the informal and antiquated slang definition.

It's not like a paper dictionary where word count matters because you're printing it on a physical product. If something is part of idiomatic conversation, it's probably going to exist in an online dictionary.
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scar the 1 posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

I mean even I don't really buy the prostitute theory. It might be believable if it weren't for the fact that she literally sells flowers on camera during the game and maintains a garden to get the flowers from--in a city where plant life is also really rare. My argument was that she did it as a cover to hide from Shinra forces / Sephiroth. Not that it was doublespeak for prostitution.

No one is saying it's a theory. And again, "she was actually selling flower" isn't an argument against it, lol.

Her literally selling flowers isn't just an argument against this theory, it completely refutes it.
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FluttershyPony posted...

who's aerith? is she related to tidaa, tina, kurodo, bullet, buttz. jitan, cipher and vanilla?

You may notice that there aren't any good responses to counter this. That's because they don't exist.
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masterpug53 posted...

FluttershyPony posted...

who's aerith? is she related to tidaa, tina, kurodo, bullet, buttz. jitan, cipher and vanilla?

You may notice that there aren't any good responses to counter this. That's because they don't exist.

We're tired of refuting it and they're just trolling half the time anyway. You only see this shit WRT Aerith. You never see people being this asinine about Koopa, M. Bison, Vega, Balrog, etc.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

If you take a look at something conventional, for example...
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/square?s=t

You'll see that definition 7 is the informal and antiquated slang definition.

It's not like a paper dictionary where word count matters because you're printing it on a physical product. If something is part of idiomatic conversation, it's probably going to exist in an online dictionary.

Good point, dictionaries are definitely getting better at this sort of thing, but they're far from perfect. Dictionary.com is really good though.
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The least ethical person in the party is Barret and it's not even close. Hundreds of innocent people killed under his order, and it happens right at the beginning of the game.
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Howl posted...

Her literally selling flowers isn't just an argument against this theory, it completely refutes it.

It really doesn't, though. It being literally true doesn't make it impossible for it to also be a euphemism.

Although I do think it's a stretch and I don't buy it at all.

Rika_Furude posted...

spikethedevil posted...

Aeris is a translation error it has been Aerith in everything since.

translation error or no, its still superior and still the original

No it's not. There's a skip in the original FF7 where you can go straight to Wall Market right after you come back from the first reactor and skip the number 5 reactor and the whole church stuff with her which means you skip naming her. The game defaults her name to Aerith and not to Aeris.
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SkylerTheCat posted...

The least ethical person in the party is Barret and it's not even close. Hundreds of innocent people killed under his order, and it happens right at the beginning of the game.

Barret blew up a reactor that was draining the planet's energy.

Aerith literally put the planet in danger of Pershing because of her lies for no discernable reason and then went off to go fix it all by herself rather than come clean about the lies.
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BlueMage279 posted...

Shotgunnova posted...

Trigg3rH4ppy posted...

Aeris*

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Tyranthraxus posted...

SkylerTheCat posted...

The least ethical person in the party is Barret and it's not even close. Hundreds of innocent people killed under his order, and it happens right at the beginning of the game.

Barret blew up a reactor that was draining the planet's energy.

Aerith literally put the planet in danger of Pershing because of her lies for no discernable reason and then went off to go fix it all by herself rather than come clean about the lies.

Again, everything is pretty much Tifa's fault.

I'd say Aeris and Red XIII are the only party members that even remotely have their shit together and are always good people.

Holy_Cloud105 posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

spikethedevil posted...

Aeris is a translation error it has been Aerith in everything since.

translation error or no, its still superior and still the original

No it's not. There's a skip in the original FF7 where you can go straight to Wall Market right after you come back from the first reactor and skip the number 5 reactor and the whole church stuff with her which means you skip naming her. The game defaults her name to Aerith and not to Aeris. It means the localization team went out of their way to be wrong.

I've never heard of this skip and wish to learn more.
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VectorChaos posted...

I've never heard of this skip and wish to learn more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbzQ9JuxXQw" data-time="
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Barret blew up a reactor that was draining the planet's energy.

Right, so you're saying that doing something as little as "keeping the planet going a little longer" is more important than the lives of hundreds of innocent people.
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SkylerTheCat posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

Barret blew up a reactor that was draining the planet's energy.

Right, so you're saying that doing something as little as "keeping the planet going a little longer" is more important than the lives of hundreds of innocent people.

First of all there's no indication that hundreds of innocent people were killed. There were evacuation alarms going off and Barret had enough time to kill a super guardian scorpion robot while walking casually on his way out to avoid the explosion. Everyone else likely got out fine.

Secondly, most of the people in that reactor were not innocent they were literally killing the planet.
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I don't think most people know that Shinra is killing the planet even the grunts working for them.
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I hate to say it because I'm Team Arris, but Aerith is correct. I'll keep calling her Aeris though until FFVIIR comes out. Then it will be impossible to call her that.

ah, the classic "are the demon lord's grunts evil or not?" debate that often seen in classic jrpgs.
btw we as the player are controlling the characters in killing shinra goons. especially when we do grinding. the blood is in our hands.
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TC, was Cloud hitting Aerith not enough punishment to the poor girl?
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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Ja-Aerith.oga
nerds
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bloodydeath0 posted...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Ja-Aerith.oga
nerds

That changes them spelling it incorrectly how?
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bloodydeath0 posted...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Ja-Aerith.oga
nerds

Sounds like Laurel to me.
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@Aeriis

Any thoughts on this topic?
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MrMallard posted...

That's what suprised me when I got around to watching a FF7 stream. Before that, I had only seen Advent Children and heard a bunch of the music, so I thought that the characters were going to be pretty cut-and-paste - Aerith is girly and innocent and too good for this sinful world, Cloud is a sad badass with an awesome sword etc. But Aerith can hustle, and she's not afraid to get her hands dirty to get what she wants. I think that's why I enjoyed the stream so much, because there was more meat to her character than I realised.

Yeah, the Anthology kind of make their characterizations more basic than they were in the original game.

Both Cloud and Aerith had quite a bit of spunk in FF7.
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spikethedevil posted...

bloodydeath0 posted...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Ja-Aerith.oga
nerds

That changes them spelling it incorrectly how?

phonetically, the original japanese pronunciation has the english "s" sound

therefore aeris is correct.
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bloodydeath0 posted...

phonetically, the original japanese pronunciation has the english "s" sound

Phonetically, the original japanese pronunciation of Cloud is Kurodo. Therefore Croud is the only correct interpretation
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@bloodydeath0 posted...

spikethedevil posted...

bloodydeath0 posted...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Ja-Aerith.oga
nerds

That changes them spelling it incorrectly how?

phonetically, the original japanese pronunciation has the english "s" sound

therefore aeris is correct.

That's not how it works at all. One thing is prefering Aeris, but actually trying to argue that it's correct when the people that made the game have stated otherwise is just laughable.

Also, trying to use the original Japanese pronunciation as an example, when you yourself don't know how Japanese works is a bad idea. (su) works for both "s" and "th" in Japanese. Which is why the katakanization of Earth as (su) is correct and "th" comes out as "su."

Even funnier is the fact that the audio clip that you probably took from the "Aerith Gainsborough" wikipedia page is named "Ja-Aerith", rightfully so :P
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fusespliff posted...

bloodydeath0 posted...

phonetically, the original japanese pronunciation has the english "s" sound

Phonetically, the original japanese pronunciation of Cloud is Kurodo. Therefore Croud is the only correct interpretation

correct
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Aerith is a whore
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