Board 8 > What RPG has the worst final BOSS?

(+) Yeah! (+)

colliding posted...

People are in here saying Persona 3 when the last bosses of FFXIII and FFXV exist

I mean those are cool too but P3's is better
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LeonhartFour posted...

Mobilezoid posted...

FFIX

Unless you can negate every single status ailment, whether or not you win comes down to chance.

I mean bosses that depend on status ailments to beat you generally suck but FFIX's last boss is pretty tame because he's really slow so it's pretty easy to deal with them as long as you've got the right ailments guarded against

I'm pretty sure there were several status ailments, including instant death, that you can't guard against in FF9, which makes every fight with the FF9 final boss a real roll of the dice. It's worse because if you lose you have to fight the second-to-last boss again, and likely the third-to-last too if you didn't realise you could save after him.

On the note of status ailments, Shadow Hearts 1's final should definitely be mentioned. Generally a tame fight, but he has 100% multitarget petrify. No petrify-blockers equipped? Congrats, you just lost, enjoy fighting the second-to-last boss again as well.

A recent one my wife just played is Final Fantasy Type-0. The final boss is two stages, both plot fights. First, one where you are forcibly killed off. Then, one where you can't possibly lose. Final bosses in RPGs often have overly long plot segments and these are bad in general (seriously, devs, let the gameplay speak for itself) but that really takes the cake.

Vandal Hearts also comes to mind. The final boss is an utterly unremarkable opponent (think Miluda in FFT, just a straight-up fighter with slightly better stats) in an unremarkable battle. After you beat him he pulls out his one-winged-angel form but it's still just an ordinary opponent with normal opponent HP; I can't even imagine him getting a turn since you start with him surrounded.
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I think I've lost to Necron once ever, and I've fought him many, many times. That's a very manageable fight.

I beat the SH1 last boss the first time with only one character with the Ribbon-type accessory. That was something else.
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I had tons of combat items for the SH final boss, so he was super easy
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Persona 3's final boss takes way too long to get going, but at least thematically it's pretty great.

I kinda want to say the final boss of FFIII again, but that feels like cheating since I already voted it for worst final dungeon.
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LeonhartFour posted...

I think I've lost to Necron once ever, and I've fought him many, many times. That's a very manageable fight.

Well without knowing how you fought him this statement may not have much meaning. It's a Final Fantasy game so it goes without saying that if you got all the good stuff then you're gonna run over things. My first file of FF9 was pretty non-gamebreaking in that I didn't have any of the ultimate weapons or high-damage moves (Shock, built-up Frog Drop/Dragon Crest/etc.; pretty much only Eiko and Garnet could deal high damage and they were needed for healing) or good support skills (e.g. Auto-Haste) and Necron did take a few tries, precisely because if he survives to use Grand Cross like 3-4 times you're almost certainly going to get screwed over at least once. Even my relatively wussy party had kinda curbstomped the lategame up to that point (the last previous boss who had posed a significant difficulty was Ark) so Necron kinda stood out to me. And in hindsight I tend to agree the diceroll design of Grand Cross isn't very good.

(FF5's Grand Cross is far less egregious because it can only apply one status per unit and is used only very rarely, while FFT's hits only a relatively small radius, limiting its potential to devastate your team.)
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I don't grind or power level my characters as a rule. FFVIII is the only game in the series I break and that's because it takes no extra effort to break it.
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LeonhartFour posted...

I don't grind or power level my characters as a rule. FFVIII is the only game in the series I break and that's because it takes no extra effort to break it.

Doesn't it take less effort to break it?
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it's part of the reason FFVIII is the best game ever
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I forgot about final fantasy tactics

even without orlandu that fight is way too easy

Mobilezoid posted...

FFIX

Unless you can negate every single status ailment, whether or not you win comes down to chance.

It's not worst of all time bad. It's kind of underwhelming but it's not something I'd call awful.
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LeonhartFour posted...

it's part of the reason FFVIII is the best game ever

I really did love just using limit breaks continuously.
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colliding posted...

I forgot about final fantasy tactics

even without orlandu that fight is way too easy

I think I was one-shotting every single unit at that point. The last hard fight was that guy with the assassins. Or maybe the jerk at the bottom of that cave. Had to give up on Ultima and that other guy's thing.
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Anyone else get to the end Ni-No-Kuni?
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Anyone else get to the end Ni-No-Kuni?

The first one? Yeah, I didn't think it was that bad. Are you talking about the end of the epilogue? Or the "first last boss.

I don't really like the battle system in general.

Just like the dungeon, Legend of Mana really suffers. The boss doesn't do anything remotely dangerous, and it just feels more like a thematic boss than anything, The Mana Tree itself wants to fight you, but the actual boss representation is some flower goddess...thing that doesn't look threatening at all. A far cry from a Mana Beast.

FFX never works well at any point because there are so many failsafes.

Ultimate Weapons
Yuna + Strength + Summons = Everything dies in 1-2 hits (or Passado which is like 20)
Any multi-hit limit break
Quick Hits
Mix probably has something that screws with the final boss

VIII's final boss can be broken over a barrel, but at least it tries to use a crazy skill that sets everyone at 1 HP.
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Demons souls is both the best and worst for different reasons.
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Oh, I forgot Persona 5. After having such great final boss music and ideas for 3&4 (3 is thematic, 4 is just trying to stomp you), 5's boss has REALLY bad final boss music when compared to the other boss themes. While having a unique battle mechanic, the boss so weak, it never feels like a threat.
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Strife2 posted...

Mix probably has something that screws with the final boss

I mean if you want to crap on FFX's last boss you don't need to make assumptions about stuff you're not even sure of

and yes every single RPG's last boss is easy if you power level because they're meant to be beaten without needing you to do that
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Yes, because FFX is SUPER hard in general.
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Strife2 posted...

Yes, because FFX is SUPER hard in general.

which is why I said you don't need to crap on it by talking about how easy it is if you get a ton of post-game content or make up stuff
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That's hardly post-game material. You can send Yuna down a strength path about midway, and getting Bahamut practically breaks the game. But even without that, what does the final boss do: hit hard? The most I've seen him do an AOE or two. I have so much harder times with V or IX's bosses, because they offer crazy status effect mechanics that prove VERY problematic no matter what party setup. The fact X allows you to swap out party members changes things for the party's favor more than any skill would.
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Celestial Weapons, Quick Hit, and leveling up Yuna's strength are definitely things you are meant to acquire in the post-game unless you're using leveling tricks or power leveling, which the average player isn't going to do.
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Fine...let me take a different approach. What about the boss is difficult? How much does he hit for, and is it something Yuna can't just Revive or Cure away in a turn? Even without abusing the Summon mechanics, he never struck me as anything close to a "One Hit Kill" machine or status abuser. I wouldn't even classify it as a war of attrition like say III or IV's final bosses. The most I've seen it do is a fancy AOE that MIGHT kill a party member. The game makes a huge show of it, but it was never anything close to what Yunalesca did in comparison.
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I'm not arguing the boss is difficult

I'm just saying you don't have to talk about how easy it is with powered up equipment because that applies to every RPG ever

don't oversell it
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Oh crap. I forgot one.

Mystic Quest.
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FFVIII sort of put up a fair fight for me by picking my most underleveled party members. Squall ended up not participating at all!
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if my main three don't get picked I just kill off the ones I don't want until I get the ones I do
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Strife2 posted...

Fine...let me take a different approach. What about the boss is difficult? How much does he hit for, and is it something Yuna can't just Revive or Cure away in a turn? Even without abusing the Summon mechanics, he never struck me as anything close to a "One Hit Kill" machine or status abuser. I wouldn't even classify it as a war of attrition like say III or IV's final bosses. The most I've seen it do is a fancy AOE that MIGHT kill a party member. The game makes a huge show of it, but it was never anything close to what Yunalesca did in comparison.

what final boss are you even talking about
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Jecht
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As someone who personally found the final boss of FFX easy, I can certainly see how he might pose problems. The big thing he has is kinda subtle, it's the fact that his multitarget physical in form 2 causes delay to the entire party, allowing him to overwhelm your healing especially if your PCs are pretty slow. If you don't immune petrify, his Beam attack will also both waste your turns healing it and constantly remove your buffs (and FFX buffs are insanely strong). Flipside if you both realise buffs are good and block petrify (and you get several Stoneproof accessories throughout the game in addition to any that you get as random drops or make yourself) he's got nothin'.

I have so much harder times with V or IX's bosses, because they offer crazy status effect mechanics that prove VERY problematic no matter what party setup.

IX's Grand Cross can't be shut down, but V very much can. Ribbon and Hermes Sandals stop everything except Zombie and those are respectively the best helmet in the game and the best accessory in the game even before their statusblocking properties are considered. Zombie is admittedly a nasty status to sneak through but at only a 5% chance it's not that worrying, especially with how rarely the move is used.
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I didn't have any problem with FFV's last boss, but maybe I got lucky

although all I did was spam Gil Toss and had two other characters Mime it while the fourth character healed
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Last run of FFV I got a pure DPS setup to beat Omega and Shinryu and it completely wrecked Exdeath.
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FFX had a fine final boss. I don't really agree with some of the design decisions (making it self healing made it ridiculously hard if you were underlevelled, and ridiculously easy if you were overlevelled; same with prominently featuring turn delay mechanics--delaying half a turn hurts a lot more if you were slow). But like, the fight, the dialog, the unique talking mechanics, it all stands out in my mind; the fight is fine.

No, the game that I really really like that jumps to mind as having a weak final boss is Valkyrie Profile. I mean, there's three final bosses, Jotun the frost giant is really underwhelming and disappointing I think on purpose to encourage you to get the good ending. Loki is kinda ok, but it feels like more of a plot fight like "Oh yeah, I'm a god, let me make a +6000 sword of smiting. Hey look mom, I won!" And for the third ending...Freya, if you anger Asgard so bad they decide you're a failure and need to be euthanized arguably doesn't count, buuuuut she is kinda amazing actually, easily my favourite of the three; that said you get the same ending whether you kill her or die to her which is kind-of disappointing.
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FFV final boss is totally not prepared for Maxed/strong Freelancers and mimics

In Four Job Fiesta hes fun though. But Ive had more problems from his Almagest (Strong Holy attack) than his Grand Cross (Random status), because I keep lucking out with which status effect is landing.
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My main problem is due to his attack pattern, I'm usually forced into using two White Mages (or at least a backup healer). It just seems like overkill.
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Fable II is a good answer.

Re: FFX. The first time I played it, BFA was definitely the hardest boss in the game (and come to think of it, the series that I've played) for me. I was unable to beat him and had to level/advance the Sphere Grid some more to win. Meanwhile, all the other bosses in the game people typically bring up as problematic (That one Seymour battle, Yunalesca) were easy for me. So, I dunno.

Also, super late but while Drakengard 3's final boss is awful to play. It is absolutely fantastic in every other regard. Actually probably one of my favorites even though the hours I spent on it were complete agony to play.
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Natwaf_akidna posted...

FFV final boss is totally not prepared for Maxed/strong Freelancers and mimics

In Four Job Fiesta hes fun though. But Ive had more problems from his Almagest (Strong Holy attack) than his Grand Cross (Random status), because I keep lucking out with which status effect is landing.

The random status attack just isn't that great honestly. Hermes Sandals block a bunch of it, and a number of its statuses are easily dealt with on top of that (blind, silence, poison, etc.). It can screw you over especially if it procs petrify/zombie on multiple people but generally fiestas only prioritise killing it if they can easily mitigate Almagest, which is generally more dangerous since it one-shots classes with lower HP if you don't have Shell (and only three jobs easily access Shell in Fiesta, without Wonder Wand shenanigans or obscure Releases).
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Strife2 posted...

Oh, I forgot Persona 5. After having such great final boss music and ideas for 3&4 (3 is thematic, 4 is just trying to stomp you), 5's boss has REALLY bad final boss music when compared to the other boss themes. While having a unique battle mechanic, the boss so weak, it never feels like a threat.

I didn't think Persona 5's boss was noticeably easier compared to 4. Also, I liked the final boss music.

The concept of 5's boss was interesting, but if the different statuses don't work, his strategy falls apart. After that, it's mostly dealing with each part having different resistances, because the attacks themselves are small damage when compared to, "TWO AOE ATTACKS IN A TURN BECAUSE FINAL BOSS DEAD." Not saying P4's was hard either. It just had a simpler method of wrecking the party.
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Persona 4's final boss is better because the first phase has one of the best songs in the series playing during it.
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