Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Corvo Attano vs. Adam Jensen

(+) Yeah! (+)

Adam Jensen has challenged Corvo Attano to a fight! Location of the fight: Distillery District - A largely rundown area of Dunwall, beset by the rat plague. Notable landmarks include the Office of the High Overseer, the Golden Cat pleasure house and the distillery itself. No residents are present.. Which side will win?

Guidelines

- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.

- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of a pre-selected plan of battle.

- "Broken" refers to a lot of things, including insta-death, auto-effects, a variety of status effects (e.g., Imp, Silence, Stop, *not* Poison), and revival. Unless stated otherwise, nobody has them, though do use your own discretion.

- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

- Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags).

- You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.

- Leaders cannot vote for their own teams, but they are free to argue their case.

- If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.

- This match will end in 24 hours.

Adam Jensen is as he appears in Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, with all his augmentations unlocked and fully upgraded. He brings his Revolver, Crossbow, Shotgun, Sniper Rifle, and Combat Rifle weapons fully upgraded/modded and stocked, 4 Frag and Concussion grenades, and 2 Typhoon ammo. He will not suffer from glitches.

~VS~

Corvo Attano is as he appears in Dishonored 2, with five Addermire Solutions and all of his upgrades, enhancements and equipment other than Possession, Stop Time and Shadow Kill (although he may only use Bend Time once every minute). Attacks that instantly kill in-game will not necessarily do so here.
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Someone sell me hard on why Corvo doesn't get obltierated here.
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I've been playing Mankind Divided and the similarities between Deus Ex & Dishonored gameplay got me to thinking
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Jensen.

It's a turbo godstomp. Corvo's good, Jensen is like two tiers above him.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Jensen.

It's a turbo godstomp. Corvo's good, Jensen is like two tiers above him.

so why are they both 4/week?

I take it we need some tier revision
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Yeah Corvo should never have been 4/wk, that was due to poor admin prediction of Corvo's ability power (which is why Ike is a 4 instead of a 2 where he should be in battle worth).
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Johnbobb posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Jensen.

It's a turbo godstomp. Corvo's good, Jensen is like two tiers above him.

so why are they both 4/week?

I take it we need some tier revision

Because Jensen didn't have Mankind Divided then.

Mankind Divided gives him enormous powerups, amongst which are becoming resistant to bullets and faster, so he not only is an awesome assassin but also a top tier frontline fighter. Corvo can't touch what he does there.

EDIT: Also Corvo is arguably a 4 but he's a 4 because he is very nasty to other characters in the 3/week upkeep level. Same as Talion.
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trdl23 posted...

Yeah Corvo should never have been 4/wk, that was due to poor admin prediction of Corvo's ability power (which is why Ike is a 4 instead of a 2 where he should be in battle worth).

2 is totally underselling him. He's definitely one of the best stealth characters we had in Mercs imo (time magic as a 2 would be broken)
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Because Jensen didn't have Mankind Divided then.

I noticed the CE version had him with Mankind Divided, but it was incomplete so I finished his write-up. However, I'm not sure if he should be left by that. Mankind Divided specifically wouldn't let you give him all his powers (if you tried, he would eventually start glitching out and shutting down). I mean, we could override that and maybe make him a 5? Or keep him at 4 and make his extra abilities a customization
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Johnbobb posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Because Jensen didn't have Mankind Divided then.

I noticed the CE version had him with Mankind Divided, but it was incomplete so I finished his write-up. However, I'm not sure if he should be left by that. Mankind Divided specifically wouldn't let you give him all his powers (if you tried, he would eventually start glitching out and shutting down). I mean, we could override that and maybe make him a 5? Or keep him at 4 and make his extra abilities a customization

Even without all his powers I feel like Jensen's a 5. What IS there is incredibly potent. But yeah, 'get all the powers' is without question 5 material and thus two tiers above the 'actually kind of a 3/week that stomps other 3s' Corvo.
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Johnbobb posted...

2 is totally underselling him. He's definitely one of the best stealth characters we had in Mercs imo (time magic as a 2 would be broken)

Doesn't Jensen no-sell that? I thought he had some kind of infrared/anti-stealth aug.

In general I feel like stealth is often disrepected - see Snake, M3 Altair, M3 Red Spy. At minimum it's very situational since you need a favorable terrain and team situation.
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Some characters get great stealth respect, like the stealth master Celes
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Drakeryn posted...

In general I feel like stealth is often disrepected - see Snake, M3 Altair, M3 Red Spy.

yeeeeeah, I learned that the hard way by getting Ezio early on. Got zero stealth respect, even on his own terrain.

Good thing his ability was so good though
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GANON1025 posted...

Some characters get great stealth respect, like the stealth master Celes

This still pisses me off that "herp derp Vanish" got more stealth respect than my entire stealth squad
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oh yeah I uhh forgot ezio existed as a combat merc
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Drakeryn posted...

oh yeah I uhh forgot ezio existed as a combat merc

sounds like he was great at stealth
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I think stealth was respected fine when the arguments weren't literally "They stealth and kill the other team kthx perfect victory"
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GANON1025 posted...

Some characters get great stealth respect, like the stealth master Celes

dont forget geralt camping with best buddy neclord in his castle!!

Also jensen easily.
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Stealth got fine respect

Problem is people tried to square peg it. "I have this terrain/merc/tool where it is theoretically possible to launch an ambush ergo I win 100-0 gg noob"

Jeezy was the closest to doing it right because he had terrains, mercs, and tools to do it. Saying it was just vanish is the recollection of salty enemy merc leaders who can't argue
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Lopen posted...

Problem is people tried to square peg it. "I have this terrain/merc/tool where it is theoretically possible to launch an ambush ergo I win 100-0 gg noob"

Yeah, this is what I was referring to

I also remember one match, it may not have been in the most recent, but one team was vastly superior to the other, but the other basically went "But Snake. Stealth. Snake." and suddenly people started going "Ahh, yes. Snake. Snake" and like nobody would actually even debate it, Snake just suddenly became a super stealth god out of nowhere despite the fact he didn't even have a way to kill some of the people even if he ambushed them. And it wasn't even a terrain that was good for ambushing, the leader just argued Snake would crawl around outside while everybody else was fighting and win somehow or something

I don't even remember if the team actually won, I never went back to the topic
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Ironically I think Lopen was leading that charge because Snake would "somehow find a way to beat Selvaria" becuase Selvaria was the kind of boss that would happen in MGS.
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i hope he used chaff grenades
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I don't think I lead the charge but yeah Snake could totally take Selvaria I stand by that
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Also if that actually is the one he was talking about IIRC that was on KOS-MOS's ship which you can absolutely sneak on
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There was also a Snake versus Trance Kuja match that happened exactly as SEP said. Though i don't remember the terrain.
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Lopen posted...

Stealth got fine respect

Problem is people tried to square peg it. "I have this terrain/merc/tool where it is theoretically possible to launch an ambush ergo I win 100-0 gg noob"

Jeezy was the closest to doing it right because he had terrains, mercs, and tools to do it. Saying it was just vanish is the recollection of salty enemy merc leaders who can't argue

This. There's a reason I leaned so hard on 'my team has telepathy scanning, AND blindvision, AND...' when I had to fight Jeezy and ended up with a lifetime 4-1 record (and the 1 I lost was from getting ultra ability haxed, not a battle topic that was taken seriously). Stealth was counterable but it took like...actual arguing effort to beat because it likewise demanded actual arguing effort from the owner. And if you couldn't argue your way out of a wet paper bag...yeah it ended up being a godslayer.
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I ended 1-1 on celes fights, thank god for psycho Zidane
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Stealth has only gotten respect on very certain characters that people attach to. Snake? Sure (even though he's weaker at stealth than almost all the stealth heavy mercs we release). Celes? Sure, because people attached to the extremely dumb Vanish arguments. Basically everyone else was clown shoes tier.
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Also Corvo (and Emily) are like, 5/weeks if we give them all their powers but for some reason we don't
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KamikazePotato posted...

Also Corvo (and Emily) are like, 5/weeks if we give them all their powers but for some reason we don't

because having the ability to possess other players is broken

Stop time is iffy but it's really broken against anyone 4/week or below
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Man, Snake jobbed to Fortune, Selvaria is like Fortune on steroids
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Drakeryn posted...

There was also a Snake versus Trance Kuja match that happened exactly as SEP said. Though i don't remember the terrain.

I think it was this one. It wasn't on KOS-MOS's ship, I know that much, because half of the argument was "Snake will go outside"
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You what else is broken against people 4/week and below? Being able to murder them without any real chance of retaliation. Armstrong was a 5/week and he was an absolute wall for people below his tier (and he would wreck Corvo 1 v 1). Corvo as-is in Mercs is advertised as a stealthy killer of squishies/backliners but he doesn't even really get the respect to do that. I'd rather he get his strongest abilities that help make him special and unique, and buff his upkeep, than release him in a neutered state that no one cares about.

(Possession is too much but charm/mind control abilities have been generally banned since Mercs' inception so it doesn't count)
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Armstrong was the definition of a tippy top 5. He'd do peachy against anyone lower than a 6, but most every 6 was thought to wreck him
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I'm not sure what even was banned from Corvo besides possession hax

Bend Time 2 I think? The rest was all available to him. Shadow Kill is banned so people can't do stupid 'it's an instakill move, 100% chance of success' arguments, not because it's broken in and of itself.
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Corvo absolutely needed Bend Time/Stop Time here. Love the guy but he's a couple centuries behind
Jensen
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this is the main thing that, combined with Jensen's armor, seals my vote:

Radar 1
Upgrade Requirement: Wayfinder Radar System Augmentation
Upgrade Cost: N/A
Use: Track hostile targets up to a range of 25m
Activation: Automatic
Energy Consumption: None
Info: The Wayfinder Radar System augmentation serves as a sensing and early-warning device; beginning users can tune it to keep track of any threat, so long as the threat remains within a local threat vector.

Radar 2
Upgrade Requirement: Radar 1 Upgrade
Upgrade Cost: 1 Praxis Point
Use: Doubles the radar's range to 50m
Activation: Automatic
Energy Consumption: None
Info: With some practice, Wayfinder users can fine-tune the unit to double its range when keeping track of any threat.

although, hold up actually. Corvo has all of his charms, right?

Does he ever get access to Chokedust, either? Could be a deciding factor
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jensen sneaks through a vent and ambushes corvo 12/10 stealth
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