Board 8 > Star Wars: Prequels or ongoing trilogy?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Come out, prequel apologists?
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It's not even close

Saying the new ones are worse than, or as bad as, the prequels is just grandstanding and exaggeration in an attempt to show just how much you hated TFA/TLJ
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Was not a fan of TLJ but TFA alone is better than all 3 prequels combined
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Why does GameFAQs seem like a bastion of reason all of a sudden? Seemed to be the opposite a while ago.
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The prequels were more interesting.

I saw force awakens and there was polish and better writing but no story to tell.
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the prequels had more interesting lore, but i don't judge them as star wars lore encyclopedias. i judge them as movies, and as movies they're terrible (with the exception of RotS - i think people kind of exaggerate how awful that movie is, but it's not good).

people who defend the prequels because of the lore remind me of people who were seriously arguing that avatar was a masterpiece when it had just come out. avatar was an amazing technical achievement, but as a movie it sucked.
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the lore wasn't interesting either

the prequels are 80% garbage made to sell toys and eventually to be played on TNT marathons

I still do not understand the hate for The Last Jedi. It took creative liberty with its method of storytelling while retaining the Star Wars atmosphere. It is also akin to ESB in the good ways. The Yoda surprise and Luke being a badass were much appreciated.

TLJ is the best Star Wars movie since the originals, imo
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Revenge of the Sith
The Force Awakens
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
The Last Jedi

ROTS is actually an excellent movie with moments that are absolutely cringeworthy.

TFA looks beautiful. Lacks originality, but is a nice restart of the series and sets things up for the next episode. There's some things in here that I absolutely hate, but I like it all and all.

TPM...This one has grown on me slightly over the years, but it's still very bad. Fix the way the Gungans talk and this movie would've been better received by the public.

AOTC used to be my least favorite Star Wars movie...I didn't think that they could get any worse unitl...

TLJ...seriously FUCK THIS MOVIE. What a pile of crap.

But yeah I'll obviously give the edge to the prequels. At least there's a good story in the jumbled up mess. The new series is a cluster fuck because of TLJ
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I've found no valid arguments as to why TLJ is that bad. Star Wars is a franchise that's always been more about its epic nature than storytelling originality. I enjoyed TLJ for everything it was and I was not left disliking it for any reason.

The Star Wars fanbase is impossible to please, but personally I want them to continue with trying to be more creative like they were with TLJ. I mean, did anyone expect going into that movie that Snoke wouldn't survive it? Who does that leave as a main antagonist?
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KujikawaRising posted...

I've found no valid arguments as to why TLJ is that bad. Star Wars is a franchise that's always been more about its epic nature than storytelling originality. I enjoyed TLJ for everything it was and I was not left disliking it for any reason.

The Star Wars fanbase is impossible to please, but personally I want them to continue with trying to be more creative like they were with TLJ. I mean, did anyone expect going into that movie that Snoke wouldn't survive it? Who does that leave as a main antagonist?

You're not looking very hard then...there's plenty of valid reasons to hate TLJ.
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I prefer Episode I to the other movies listed, personally. Williams' score is just phenomenal, and the world-building in Episode I is quite enjoyable. It creates a small division that quietly leads to the greater plot of the Star Wars franchise, and I appreciate that what feels like a small political skirmish based on economic gain is what kicks off the series. It gives a bit of insight to the world outside of the Force, which is for me such a nonsense concept anymore that it provokes no reaction in me. When the Jedi are working in their perfunctory role as Super-Cops, I have more investment in their work because it's often grounded in basic, modern-world morality cloaked in the guise of a far-off world.

Another reason Episode I is so enjoyable for me is that fantastic four-pronged final battle in the back twenty minutes of the movie. The frantic pace sets the emotional stakes but at the same time there's a elegant editing style here that hinges on the music to link all of the aspects of the Battle for Naboo together and, aside from Anakin's acting in those scenes, it really is a worthy successor to other great battles in the series. In some ways, it surpasses them.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Another reason Episode I is so enjoyable for me is that fantastic four-pronged final battle in the back twenty minutes of the movie. The frantic pace sets the emotional stakes but at the same time there's a elegant editing style here that hinges on the music to link all of the aspects of the Battle for Naboo together and, aside from Anakin's acting in those scenes, it really is a worthy successor to other great battles in the series. In some ways, it surpasses them.

aside from anakin being insufferable ("NOW THIS IS PODRACING"), i could have done without the gungans/droids battle too tbqh. i didn't like how we kept cutting to jar jar stumbling around like an idiot.

other than those two aspects i agree that it's a great sequence, though. cool space battle and an awesome lightsaber fight (yeah yeah i know, it's just "ballet with lightsabers" but i don't care. it still rules).
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trentpac posted...

KujikawaRising posted...

I've found no valid arguments as to why TLJ is that bad. Star Wars is a franchise that's always been more about its epic nature than storytelling originality. I enjoyed TLJ for everything it was and I was not left disliking it for any reason.

The Star Wars fanbase is impossible to please, but personally I want them to continue with trying to be more creative like they were with TLJ. I mean, did anyone expect going into that movie that Snoke wouldn't survive it? Who does that leave as a main antagonist?

You're not looking very hard then...there's plenty of valid reasons to hate TLJ.

Nope. Zero. I think you know this, seeing as you can't provide a single one.

Here's some of the stupid arguments I've heard...

"It's not political enough!" or "Too much SJW propaganda!"
I've heard both. If you're looking for political messages in movies, then you need to stop watching them. Not everything needs to be politicized. Why can't you enjoy an epic movie for what it is? I've seen people criticize video games for not having "any anti-Trump message" - which defies the very point of what video games should be. Like a game, Star Wars is meant to be FUN. And TLJ was fun. It's more concerned about its epic nature than it is storytelling creativity. Political messages shouldn't be in everything and the fickle need to learn how to appreciate things for what they are.

"It just isn't good!"
An opinion is a stance on something supported by factual statements. This is not an opinion. There's no supporting evidence, therefore it's just a false statement that can be ignored.

"Luke dying at the end is a huge disservice to the series!"
Uh... this trilogy is the story of Rey, Finn, and Kylo Ben. It's not the story of Luke and Leia anymore, and at least Luke got a proper sendoff. He went out like a badass, using astral projection to provide a diversion and still kicking ass despite not physically being there. That's one of the most badass sendoffs in cinema history. He got a proper ending, unlike his sister. Why can't that be appreciated? And hey, Yoda came back from disappearing into the Force. Why can't Luke?

"It resembles ESB too much!"
This is a completely true statement, but in what world is that a bad thing? It's not! They took the best of the most beloved Star Wars movie and put a fresh spin on it. They mixed what they knew worked with a risk and it paid off well - it was a more interesting movie than TFA that for once made the story matter. Even if that's not what the series is meant to be about.

Those are just four that came to mind, all invalid arguments from hateful individuals. Whatever happened to seeking the positives? TLJ has more than enough.
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New trilogy defenders are about as annoying as the haters
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KujikawaRising posted...

trentpac posted...

KujikawaRising posted...

I've found no valid arguments as to why TLJ is that bad. Star Wars is a franchise that's always been more about its epic nature than storytelling originality. I enjoyed TLJ for everything it was and I was not left disliking it for any reason.

The Star Wars fanbase is impossible to please, but personally I want them to continue with trying to be more creative like they were with TLJ. I mean, did anyone expect going into that movie that Snoke wouldn't survive it? Who does that leave as a main antagonist?

You're not looking very hard then...there's plenty of valid reasons to hate TLJ.

Nope. Zero. I think you know this, seeing as you can't provide a single one.

Here's some of the stupid arguments I've heard...

"It's not political enough!" or "Too much SJW propaganda!"
I've heard both. If you're looking for political messages in movies, then you need to stop watching them. Not everything needs to be politicized. Why can't you enjoy an epic movie for what it is? I've seen people criticize video games for not having "any anti-Trump message" - which defies the very point of what video games should be. Like a game, Star Wars is meant to be FUN. And TLJ was fun. It's more concerned about its epic nature than it is storytelling creativity. Political messages shouldn't be in everything and the fickle need to learn how to appreciate things for what they are.

"It just isn't good!"
An opinion is a stance on something supported by factual statements. This is not an opinion. There's no supporting evidence, therefore it's just a false statement that can be ignored.

"Luke dying at the end is a huge disservice to the series!"
Uh... this trilogy is the story of Rey, Finn, and Kylo Ben. It's not the story of Luke and Leia anymore, and at least Luke got a proper sendoff. He went out like a badass, using astral projection to provide a diversion and still kicking ass despite not physically being there. That's one of the most badass sendoffs in cinema history. He got a proper ending, unlike his sister. Why can't that be appreciated? And hey, Yoda came back from disappearing into the Force. Why can't Luke?

"It resembles ESB too much!"
This is a completely true statement, but in what world is that a bad thing? It's not! They took the best of the most beloved Star Wars movie and put a fresh spin on it. They mixed what they knew worked with a risk and it paid off well - it was a more interesting movie than TFA that for once made the story matter. Even if that's not what the series is meant to be about.

Those are just four that came to mind, all invalid arguments from hateful individuals. Whatever happened to seeking the positives? TLJ has more than enough.

And none of those are my arguments. At this point I'm just sick of talking about this train wreck of a movie...that's why I gave you no reasons. I don't feel like going down that rabbit hole today.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

yeah yeah i know, it's just "ballet with lightsabers" but i don't care. it still rules).

I think ballet with lightsabers was exactly what was necessary. The dichotomy between prequel fighting and OT fighting is actually really perfect. This is in the golden age of Jedi, and watching more visceral, basic fighting with lightsabers being demonstrated in the OT really highlights how far gone the Jedi are when you look at the eloquent technical aptitude they demonstrate during their existence.

I actually have more of a problem with Rey demonstrating those skills in TLJ (it's not a real complaint that I hold against the movie though). I don't mind seeing Rey's potential, but having a certain polished quality to her fighting sort of dismisses the idea that this culture of Jedi ideology and training actually produced something that was any different from what a random person can do.
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The prequels are worse in every way that matters, but I find them more entertaining because of how dumb and bizarre they are.
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I think it's impossible not to notice the flaws in TLJ. Emotionally:

The entire casino planet arc was fluff

The empire feels diminuitive

The goal of the heroes seems to be eternal war

The movie didn't leave any remaining questions for episode 9

Logistically:

Why don't the heroes believe in trans-warp tracking when one of them is wearing a trans-warp tracking device?

Overall, it's just hard to care when the message of the movie is 'we want the war to go on forever, because we want to sell toy- i mean, the people who produce x-wings and tie fighters are the same. We are sacrificing luke to inspire a new generation of consu- i mean rebels. Keep on the good fight.'
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That being said, the prequels were just terrible. More fun to read wikipedia summaries than to actually watch
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KujikawaRising posted...

I've heard both. If you're looking for political messages in movies, then you need to stop watching them. Not everything needs to be politicized. Why can't you enjoy an epic movie for what it is? I've seen people criticize video games for not having "any anti-Trump message" - which defies the very point of what video games should be. Like a game, Star Wars is meant to be FUN. And TLJ was fun

What the fuck is this shit?

TLJ is a terrific movie but are you listening to yourself?
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pjbasis posted...

New trilogy defenders are about as annoying as the haters

Nobody needs to "defend" the new trilogy. The consensus is that they are good movies and they were critically well-received.

The notion that someone like, idk, Corrik, and his associated small minority puts me on the "defensive" is insulting. Call me a "fan" of the new trilogy if you want, but I'm not a "defender" or "apologist" or whatever you want.

Using language like that indicates that it needs to be defended or that those who liked it are in a minority.
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not that much of a fan of the new series but notthing as flat out rage inducing as RotS nor boring as AotC
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XIII_rocks posted...

pjbasis posted...

New trilogy defenders are about as annoying as the haters

Nobody needs to "defend" the new trilogy. The consensus is that they are good movies and they were critically well-received.

The notion that someone like, idk, Corrik, and his associated small minority puts me on the "defensive" is insulting. Call me a "fan" of the new trilogy if you want, but I'm not a "defender" or "apologist" or whatever you want.

Using language like that indicates that it needs to be defended or that those who liked it are in a minority.

46% audience score at Rotten Tomatoes...that's hardly well received.
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trentpac posted...

And none of those are my arguments. At this point I'm just sick of talking about this train wreck of a movie...that's why I gave you no reasons. I don't feel like going down that rabbit hole today.

One of those is your argument, actually, but if you want me to leave you alone, I will.

pjbasis posted...

New trilogy defenders are about as annoying as the haters

In what way am I being annoying here? I'm just telling people that they should appreciate things for what they are, stop politicizing everything, and seek the positives. If anything, I want people to stop being annoying.

XIII_rocks posted...

KujikawaRising posted...

I've heard both. If you're looking for political messages in movies, then you need to stop watching them. Not everything needs to be politicized. Why can't you enjoy an epic movie for what it is? I've seen people criticize video games for not having "any anti-Trump message" - which defies the very point of what video games should be. Like a game, Star Wars is meant to be FUN. And TLJ was fun

What the fuck is this shit?

TLJ is a terrific movie but are you listening to yourself?

Don't ask me! It's stupid shit I've actually read online. People need to enjoy things for what they are, not for what they aren't. And political messages are wholly unnecessary in things that should be an escape from them.
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I guess I vote for the new movies since there is still one coming out that could be good

But the prequels are kinda in "so bad it's good" territory so it's a tough choice
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TFA and RotS are two of my favorites, so it's hard to choose. But I think overall the current trilogy is better.
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I voted NT but the bar isn't set very high.
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PT for RotS, the only movie of the 5 I find much enjoyment in.
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Also banananor laid out a lot of actual valid criticisms of TLJ. I like how they weren't acknowledged though. Keep beating on the strawmen of politics and ESB similarity (seriously like, who says this stuff-- TFA was the rehash movie people just don't like TLJ)
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8 > 3 > 7 >>> 1 > 2

TLJ had its flaws but the parts that were good were really good, enough that I'm willing to forgive the flaws.
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We went over shitloads of valid criticisms on TLJ back when that was a thing to talk about

There's a load of valid criticisms you can give to TLJ, but I can never take conversations about the movie seriously because the Star Wars fanbase is full of lunatics. You know it's bad when Luke Skywalker calls you nerds and tell you to get over it.

I also think that people voting for the Prequel Trilogy do not fully remember how awful 1 and 2 were.
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If we're going average vs average new movies are a bit better

But for me it's something like

2/10 for Phantom Menace
1/10 for Attack of the Clones
6/10 for Revenge of the Sith

4/10 for The Force Awakens
4/10 for The Last Jedi

So while an average of 3/10 < 4/10, I only even sorta like one movie here and that's Revenge of the Sith, so PT wins by default.
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3 was the worst of the prequel trilogy tbqh
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CelesMyUserName posted...

3 was the worst of the prequel trilogy tbqh

You don't hear that one often
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Honestly the only reason I could see that opinion forming is out of bitterness because you didn't like any of the first three but some people actually don't hate the third one.
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revenge of the sith is fucking awful

except for the parts with palpatine because he's fucking great

i didn't mind the first 2 at all - aotc is boring like I said but 1 gave me star wars pod racers on n64

3 is just so full of dumb teen annie who's the worst star wars character ever, it's painful to watch him
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There are great parts of RotS in the same way that The Room is great.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBiKGc9ZOl4" data-time="

best part of pt
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

people who defend the prequels because of the lore remind me of people who were seriously arguing that avatar was a masterpiece when it had just come out. avatar was an amazing technical achievement, but as a movie it sucked.

I like Avatar (I've seen it multiple times, though last time was in February 2015), but I agree it's no masterpiece. Even aside from the technical achievement though, it feels like it's directed with a kind of energy that movies nowadays largely lack. Doesn't help that Avatar is its own thing instead of a sequel or reboot or whatever.
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Lasa is comparing reception of a movie in its time to reception of a movie in its legacy, and that's a great example of how not to argue in favor or against a film. If you want to talk legacy, talk legacy. If you want to talk about the movie in a vacuum, do so. If you want to contextualize the movie and talk about its reception in the historic period of its release, that's another topic altogether.

The Great Escape was not well-received by critics upon its release, but it has become a classic film. Willy Wonka was pretty much a flop on release but has become utterly beloved. You could also look at a movie like The Ten Commandments, a project that ended up becoming one of the biggest movies ever with a great critical and commercial groundswell - it's generally received negatively by younger generations. Bitching about Avatar because you've forgotten the cultural conventions of 10 years ago and comparing it to opinions of NOW are wildly different.
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I don't really like the two new ones all that much but they're not Prequel bad.
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I remember enjoying Episode 1 quite a bit but not really caring for 2 or 3.

For the sequels so far I enjoyed TFA and TLJ was 10/10 for just the visuals alone.
God damn that movie had some amazing looking sets and scenes.
I even loved the entire casino adventure just as a way to get a glimpse of the bizarre world and style of the elites in the Star Wars universe. And that throne room fight scene. And the hyperjump. And the blood snow.
I think I just convinced myself to pick it up on blu-ray and I think the last movie I bought a physical copy of was Speed Racer.

Pod racing almost makes it close but TLJ is just too pretty.
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New trilogy by ten miles.


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From my point of view, the prequels are better!
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> Sees Sequels winning by almost 70%

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3oSAVwcD4U" data-time="
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TFA
RotS
TPM
AotC
TLJ
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Prequels but only because there's one more movie.

I and VII are fun, II and VIII are dull, III is a bunch of memes. It's IX's game to lose at this point.