Poll of the Day > I think people who Join the Army should be allowed to QUIT. Do you agree??

(+) Yeah! (+)

I personally think people who join the army should be allowed to quit...unlike what some countries make these people sign a contract that they're forced to stay in for a certain amount of time or be thrown to prison...

The middle ground should be that they forfeit the benefits they would have gotten if they quit early but they should have the right to quit.

Do you agree? let's see if people do

https://orig00.deviantart.net/67e0/f/2011/152/a/a/winnie_the_pooh_in_the_army_by_gorillagraffix-d3hrogo.png
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It costs a lot of money to train a person... so I suppose it could be like cellphones where you can quit if you payout your contract. The army loses nothing and you've gained potentially valuable skills.
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Absolutely not.
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I'm split. On one hand, you signed a contract. On the other, if you're forced to stay in, you're going to be shit at your job and if deployed, could be a detriment to your fellow soldiers.

It's been over a decade since I was in the military but when I was in basic, you could quit. It was only available during basic. Possibly during AIT, I don't recall exactly. I believe it was a Chapter 11 discharge that you could request. Failure to adapt. Uncharacterized discharge with no eligibility for benefits. Drill Sergeants had no interest in training a recruit that didn't want to be there and would happily pawn you off to a Transition Center for out-processing.

Had one kid that refused to do anything in my BCT company. Wouldn't participate in PT, refused BRM and FTX exercises, even refused chow. Said that he was terrified of being deployed and didn't want to go through with basic anymore. Company Commander almost tripped over himself getting the paperwork together to steel toe his ass out.
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Thats too generalized of a question. You have to consider when they attempt to leave and what theyve been exposed too while they were in. Generally speaking though, yes.
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No, soldiers have to be stable, so if you let them leave at the slightest signs of danger, you'll never have troops when you need them.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

No, soldiers have to be stable, so if you let them leave at the slightest signs of danger, you'll never have troops when you need them.

Sorry boss, hate to leave on such short notice but getting shot at just isn't working out for me.

Yeah, no.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

No, soldiers have to be stable, so if you let them leave at the slightest signs of danger, you'll never have troops when you need them.

Clearly you've never been in the army. Oh wait, that was established from our previous discussions.
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Hell nah

They know what they signed up for and a lot of time and resources go into training them.
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Lokarin posted...

It costs a lot of money to train a person... so I suppose it could be like cellphones where you can quit if you payout your contract. The army loses nothing and you've gained potentially valuable skills.

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Nope. It's a contract and a commitment. If you don't have the stones to serve your country then don't join.
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SmokeMassTree posted...

They know what they signed up

Considering most of them are probably teens, I doubt most of them know the full extent of what they sign up for.
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Kungfu Kenobi posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

No, soldiers have to be stable, so if you let them leave at the slightest signs of danger, you'll never have troops when you need them.

Sorry boss, hate to leave on such short notice but getting shot at just isn't working out for me.

Yeah, no.

Cacciato posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

No, soldiers have to be stable, so if you let them leave at the slightest signs of danger, you'll never have troops when you need them.

Clearly you've never been in the army. Oh wait, that was established from our previous discussions.

I don't see your points? Do you think a fair few people don't regret joining the army when they're shot at? A lot of people join for the paid training too, do you think those people want to face combat?
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Provided they give suitable advance notice, I don't see why not, same as any other job. However, the nature of the military is such that "suitable advance notice" is going to be quite a bit longer than the typical 2 weeks other jobs ask for, given the literal life-and-death consequences of losing manpower on short notice.
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When I served during the 1980s, they were taking older recruits (twenty somethings) as well as kids out of high school. For some reason the military decided, in its infinite wisdom, that they weren't going to make an effort to recruit twenty somethings (those who'd actually lived a year or two before making a commitment) but stick with kids fresh out of high school. That being said, nobody should commit to military service unless they've done their research and know what they're getting into. Once you've made a commitment you should honor that commitment; it's what separates adults from kids, being responsible for the consequences of your decisions I mean.

Well since being dishonably discharged doesn't really mean anything, unless you're going into law enforcement or something, you kinda already can quit whenever you want.

No, it's the military, not a fitness club. Plus it's infeasible for countless reasons
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GastroFan posted...

Once you've made a commitment you should honor that commitment; it's what separates adults from kids, being responsible for the consequences of your decisions I mean.

Yup, blindly go through with any and all commitments, that's what makes an adult alright.
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Anyway, I say no. And I was in. First of all, you can always sign up for less years. I had a friend who only did two(Navy, I believe). And when we had people sign up, it was usually 4 or 6. And if you choose 6 years, you got. Rank a little faster. I don't think you should
Be able to sign up for 6 years to get rank, then quit later on unless you're going to oh that back(except for certain situations). The thing is, you kind of can quit whenever, based on your situation. If you're not finished with Yech school and get pregnant, they actually offer you a chance to get out. Also, if you go to mental health, it's usually the start to you getting out. Tell someone you're thinking about hurting yourself. You'll be stuck wherever you are for a while, but you will probably be out after a while. And you technically can buy your contract out. It's usually for people who get rich quick. Like winning a lottery. Or getting a bunch of money from a rich family member who passed... Except it's usually more like they get rid of you... And a special case if what they were doing for the last few years. They had too many people. So, they gave everyone who wanted it a chance to get out. They did it 2 or 3 times, IIRC. And it was just a regular discharge. Nothing bad about it. I think the 2nd time they did it, the first day it opened up to take people, they have more than double of what they needed to get rid off. They had a nice meme(which I can't find anymore) for it.

It was this picture and said, "Air Force offers early out. Airmen be like"
https://imgur.com/FAuW9Bh

Anyway, that's how I feel. You don't have to sign up. So, don't if you don't want to. But don't sign up and just quit. It does cost money to train you. And you are getting paid for it the whole time you're in. Even if you let them pay the military back, they probably wouldn't have enough...

AllstarSniper32 posted...

GastroFan posted...

Once you've made a commitment you should honor that commitment; it's what separates adults from kids, being responsible for the consequences of your decisions I mean.

Yup, blindly go through with any and all commitments, that's what makes an adult alright.

I mean, it's their fault if they don't know what they're signing up for...
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90 percent of the military would quit. Everyone hates being here
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EvilMegas posted...

90 percent of the military would quit. Everyone hates being here

This is true. And in most people's career, they wished they never signed up at some point. Even if that doubt goes away pretty fast...
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So it's forced servitude to the point of risking your life because you signed a piece of paper?
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Andromicus posted...

So it's forced servitude to the point of risking your life because you signed a piece of paper?

Stop loss program wasn't it that forced people to serve long after their contract ended? Or am i thinking of a tv show that made shit up?
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The amount of money the government would save on VA disability payments alone would justify it.
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Andromicus posted...

So it's forced servitude to the point of risking your life because you signed a piece of paper?

You willingly signed up. Nobody forced you to sign the paper. It's a contract, so you hold up your end. You said you would work for years. And if you didn't, you would face whatever consequences. So, yeah. Just like any other contract people signed. That's like someone signing a contract to fix you roof. Then after getting paid, they leave saying that they could fall off the roof and die. So, they won't fix it.
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I think it depends how far along they are. Once you've been deployed, it's too late. Anything up that point should result in a loss of benefits and reasonable reimbursement from the individual to the military for whatever they've consumed up to that point (as a deterrent).

I'm also of the opinion that anyone homeless that is convicted of a minor crime and is of sound body and mind should be conscripted into a mandatory 5-year military tour. Food, shelter, and discipline should set them straight.
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I believe you shouldn't be allowed to quit, but I also believe there should be significantly more strict restrictions on who can join in order to eliminate the types of people who would want to quit.

It isn't enough to physically clear people and rule out those with mental issues. Imo a psych eval should be done on kids at meps, but of course that'll never happen.
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LinkPizza posted...

Andromicus posted...

So it's forced servitude to the point of risking your life because you signed a piece of paper?

You willingly signed up. Nobody forced you to sign the paper. It's a contract, so you hold up your end. You said you would work for years. And if you didn't, you would face whatever consequences. So, yeah. Just like any other contract people signed. That's like someone signing a contract to fix you roof. Then after getting paid, they leave saying that they could fall off the roof and die. So, they won't fix it.

This so much.

You had to have been living under a rock for the past twenty years to not know what the us military is all about, you have no excuse but ignorance to want out after volunteering, and ignorance is never a valid excuse.
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TheCyborgNinja posted...

I think it depends how far along they are. Once you've been deployed, it's too late. Anything up that point should result in a loss of benefits and reasonable reimbursement from the individual to the military for whatever they've consumed up to that point (as a deterrent).

I'm also of the opinion that anyone homeless that is convicted of a minor crime and is of sound body and mind should be conscripted into a mandatory 5-year military tour. Food, shelter, and discipline should set them straight.

In my current city, most of the homeless at veterans...
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LinkPizza posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

I think it depends how far along they are. Once you've been deployed, it's too late. Anything up that point should result in a loss of benefits and reasonable reimbursement from the individual to the military for whatever they've consumed up to that point (as a deterrent).

I'm also of the opinion that anyone homeless that is convicted of a minor crime and is of sound body and mind should be conscripted into a mandatory 5-year military tour. Food, shelter, and discipline should set them straight.

In my current city, most of the homeless at veterans...

That's unacceptable, your massive military spending is supposed to include veteran pensions
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Lokarin posted...

LinkPizza posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

I think it depends how far along they are. Once you've been deployed, it's too late. Anything up that point should result in a loss of benefits and reasonable reimbursement from the individual to the military for whatever they've consumed up to that point (as a deterrent).

I'm also of the opinion that anyone homeless that is convicted of a minor crime and is of sound body and mind should be conscripted into a mandatory 5-year military tour. Food, shelter, and discipline should set them straight.

In my current city, most of the homeless at veterans...

That's unacceptable, your massive military spending is supposed to include veteran pensions

Not every veteran gets a pension. Most don't unless they're lifers.
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no we should not cart homeless off that's how you lose wars by making people who don't want to be there fight
if anything we should make being homeless illegal and force them into empty homes/studio apartments
landlordism is what makes this country a feudal system, the technology in houses hasn't really advanced that much since the 70's but now houses cost like 3 times more

the military is basically slavery, conscription in the military is slavery, you can't quit unless you mess up and get brought up on charges, my friend stole from them so they dishonorably discharged him

people in the military are so poor now, when they get out they basically have housing for two years, to keep a roof over their head they have to work full time for the rest of their life like everyone else. People in the military complain that the guy at burger king is making more than them lol, burger king is a private business, why they feel they have to complain about someone else's choice in life speaks wonders

some people that acquire skills and join the military can retire in 10-12 years, but that's if they're o.k. with being seperated from friends and family 90% of the time

People who say "yes" have no idea how logistics and manning works. The amount of people allowed to serve at any one time is a rough estimate as it is, but it's important and vital that people serve the full term because once they sign those papers, that branch is already saying "Ok, we had this many people enlist this year, based on statistics, X percent of people won't make it through the full term, so we need to make sure we get this many people next cycle." Having too many service members is just as bad because that leads to more people than their are positions to be filled which is just overpaying.

RoboXgp89 posted...

the military is basically slavery, conscription in the military is slavery, you can't quit unless you mess up and get brought up on charges, my friend stole from them so they dishonorably discharged him

Yeah, I forgot about how all those slaves from Africa in the 1700s and 1800s had to sign contracts saying that they would be paid and given a stipend for food and housing, plus medical benefits if they worked for 4 or 6 years, then they'd be free to go.

Jesus Christ, dude, keep your thoughts to yourself if you have no idea what you're talking about, because clearly you don't.

RoboXgp89 posted...

no we should not cart homeless off that's how you lose wars by making people who don't want to be there fight
if anything we should make being homeless illegal and force them into empty homes/studio apartments
landlordism is what makes this country a feudal system, the technology in houses hasn't really advanced that much since the 70's but now houses cost like 3 times more

the military is basically slavery, conscription in the military is slavery, you can't quit unless you mess up and get brought up on charges, my friend stole from them so they dishonorably discharged him

people in the military are so poor now, when they get out they basically have housing for two years, to keep a roof over their head they have to work full time for the rest of their life like everyone else. People in the military complain that the guy at burger king is making more than them lol, burger king is a private business, why they feel they have to complain about someone else's choice in life speaks wonders

some people that acquire skills and join the military can retire in 10-12 years, but that's if they're o.k. with being seperated from friends and family 90% of the time

Well,just because you join the military doesn't mean you'll be in a war. At least, not directly. There are lots of other jobs. So, they'll would probably have dofferent jobs. And I would call it slavery. That's going a little too far. I will say that making the sign up is closer to slavery, but even then...

As for how rich or poor, I wouldn't call them rich unless they are an officer, butI also wouldn't call them poor. Most say that other jobs make more than them because ok the military, you are always on the clock. And you don't get overtime. But pretend that you only have 8 hours a day like normal jobs, andthey make more. And unless you're medically retired(or other special retirements), you won't normally retire in 10 years. You would have to make it to 20. Though with the BRS, it's a little different...

Source: Was active Air Force
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GanglyKhan posted...

People who say "yes" have no idea how logistics and manning works. The amount of people allowed to serve at any one time is a rough estimate as it is, but it's important and vital that people serve the full term because once they sign those papers, that branch is already saying "Ok, we had this many people enlist this year, based on statistics, X percent of people won't make it through the full term, so we need to make sure we get this many people next cycle." Having too many service members is just as bad because that leads to more people than their are positions to be filled which is just overpaying.

Which is why they had the early out system happen... twice. And that was right after they had done something to get more people to sign up... They are kind of back on track now... Haha.
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LinkPizza posted...

but I also wouldn't call them poor. Most say that other jobs make more than them because

When you count in clothing, BAH/BAS, and medical benefits, you're already making $60,000 out of the gate. Sure, your base pay is only 30% of that, but on the outside, you'd still be responsible for getting your own health coverage. Let me tell you what, there isn't any other health plan in America that will pay for 100% of a hospital bill for $0.

LinkPizza posted...

Which is why they had the early out system happen... twice. And that was right after they had done something to get more people to sign up... They are kind of back on track now... Haha.

As I said, it's all rough estimates. Same thing goes for re-enlistment bonuses, they have incentives for certain career fields over others for a reason. Some people are just worth more, financially and skill wise. It's been more than just twice in any case. Imagine it's just a pendulum, it will inevitably overcorrect from the center and cause it to swing back again. That's also what ends up leading to those stupidly easy promotion cycles where you practically have to sign your name and read the questions to pass.

GanglyKhan posted...

LinkPizza posted...

but I also wouldn't call them poor. Most say that other jobs make more than them because

When you count in clothing, BAH/BAS, and medical benefits, you're already making $60,000 out of the gate. Sure, your base pay is only 30% of that, but on the outside, you'd still be responsible for getting your own health coverage. Let me tell you what, there isn't any other health plan in America that will pay for 100% of a hospital bill for $0.

The 100% health care is a blessing to be sure. And they is also true about all the other extras you're making, too. Never had to worry much while I was in.
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GanglyKhan posted...

RoboXgp89 posted...

the military is basically slavery, conscription in the military is slavery, you can't quit unless you mess up and get brought up on charges, my friend stole from them so they dishonorably discharged him

Yeah, I forgot about how all those slaves from Africa in the 1700s and 1800s had to sign contracts saying that they would be paid and given a stipend for food and housing, plus medical benefits if they worked for 4 or 6 years, then they'd be free to go.

Jesus Christ, dude, keep your thoughts to yourself if you have no idea what you're talking about, because clearly you don't.

I was talking about the past thousands of years of military not your little police actions you do for the oligarchy to get shit other countries get for free LOL

people in the military basically had jobs and ate until they were cut up and shot at like meat because their leaders and kings wouldn't let them run back to defend their own country

RoboXgp89 posted...

I was talking about the past thousands of years of military not your little police actions you do for the oligarchy

You literally brought up your friend in the same sentence in which you said "the military is basically slavery". So that says to me you're talking about modern military, not the past 1000 years of history. Also, it's just apparent to me that with your tone and choice of words that you are a little saltier than you need to be which is likely clouding your judgement here on a topic that you know little about.

is it not a crime to quit the military?

RoboXgp89 posted...

is it not a crime to quit the military?

No, it isn't. If a member wishes to separate early, they can appeal for it, at which point it's written up under the reasoning of "Failure to Adapt" and a board of members decides whether or not you are allowed to keep certain benefits like education. AWOL isn't "quitting", there's a specific article in the Uniformed Code of Military Justice that outlines what "Unauthorized Absence" is.

it was more of the being away from home that I was talking about
but yeah indentured servitude

RoboXgp89 posted...

it was more of the being away from home that I was talking about
but yeah indentured servitude

Sure. But they also signed up for it. So, why does it matter? The end result is nobody forced them to sign it. And they get not only money, but tons of benifits. Food, shelter, clothes, health care(health, dental, vision, emergnecies), and other stuff, too.
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Sounds like many of the people itt are too ignorant on the subject to have a meaningful conversation.
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GanglyKhan posted...

When you count in clothing, BAH/BAS, and medical benefits, you're already making $60,000 out of the gate. Sure, your base pay is only 30% of that, but on the outside, you'd still be responsible for getting your own health coverage. Let me tell you what, there isn't any other health plan in America that will pay for 100% of a hospital bill for $0.

I wish that was actually true when I was in, but it's not true now either. As for the free healthcare, you're correct. The catch is that you get military doctors.
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Remember Veterans: It's part of the constitution to bear arms against threats foreign and DOMESTIC
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Cacciato posted...

GanglyKhan posted...

When you count in clothing, BAH/BAS, and medical benefits, you're already making $60,000 out of the gate. Sure, your base pay is only 30% of that, but on the outside, you'd still be responsible for getting your own health coverage. Let me tell you what, there isn't any other health plan in America that will pay for 100% of a hospital bill for $0.

I wish that was actually true when I was in, but it's not true now either. As for the free healthcare, you're correct. The catch is that you get military doctors.

Tricare prime is like $300 for a family of four, I pay around $520 for my Cadillac Kaiser plan.

Tricare has never been free, just heavily subsidized. I frequently see people calling it free, not sure whether they're intentionally being deceitful or if they can't read their LES.
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