Board 8 > Do you like the "non-cutscenes" that games have?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I don't know how to properly name it but you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

That thing where a character is talking but you're still in control. A conversation is happening while you walk around and stuff. Leading to your guy saying something while you jump up and down on the spot, walk up and down the stairs, etc.

I feel like games have done this more and more over the last decade or so and they actually kind of annoy me a little bit sometimes. For instance, I'm playing Horizon which is ewihfewhfwehfiewhwqoqqewqj so good but if I had a complaint it's that I think so much of the material in the main missions is presented to you through these audio datapoints that you kind of just need to stand around and listen to. I get impatient with them and want to move on and there's just always one more. And the story is so good that I want to listen to them all, but I also don't a bit because it's going to be more standing around and if I use the time to craft stuff it starts the line over again. I always used to get irritated when the first Assassin's Creed did this too, you'd get bored and antsy and want to walk around while Al-Mualim was talking to you

I mean obviously the answer is "a balance", and this could just be me and my weird impatience. But when one of those happens I have an expectation for them to be over fast, because otherwise it'd just be a cutscene. So when they start to drag on a bit I get antsy and I'd just prefer the cutscene so I know what I'm getting and can put the controller down.

People criticise MGS2's presentation of story with the endless cutscenes and codec for instance but I think part of me prefers that because at least I...know what I'm getting? I dunno.
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Walk-and-talk?
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This sounds more like a personal mental hurdle to get over

If they're basically cutscenes that you want to hear all of, then just treat it like a cutscene
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I know what you're talking about and it vaguely annoys me too. If the game isn't going to let you do something meaningful while listening than I'd actually prefer the MGS2 style of just taking control away from you for a while.
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Depends how long they go and how interesting they are, really.

Like I'm a lot more likely to get antsy and be like "just let me go do my thing!!" with a pseudo-cutscene than an actual one if the narrative starts to drag.

So I agree but only if it overstays its welcome. Not that overly long actual cutscenes are good either but I do get less frustrated with them.
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i'm okay with it as long as i can still progress in some way while the conversation is happening because i will inevitably tune out at some point in a cutscene.

if it's something where i'm blocked from doing anything other than listening to them but still retain control then it sucks even more than cutscenes because i can't skip it and i'm just repeatedly squatting in front of their faces or rolling back and forth.

Like most things, it depends on the quality of writing.

I for instance would love to sit around and listen if it's a good story. My girlfriend on the other hand will skip through every optional conversation ever if she had the choice. She missed like, the majority of the optional stuff in Life is Strange because of it.

She somehow managed to succeed at the conclusion of episode 2 somehow.
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KamikazePotato posted...

I know what you're talking about and it vaguely annoys me too. If the game isn't going to let you do something meaningful while listening than I'd actually prefer the MGS2 style of just taking control away from you for a while.

Right?

I think with Horizon, there's like 5 or more datapoints in a room on one of the main missions. It'd be nice if you could just sort of queue them up to play one after the other. What happens is I start one, move to the next one, wait for the first one to finish for whatever length of time, then play the second one. Or if there was a puzzle to progress out of that room. Later there's a room that has a puzzle to progress but no datapoints at all.

You can play them later from the pause menu but that's even worse - you're just staring at the subtitles.
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HashtagSEP posted...

This sounds more like a personal mental hurdle to get over

If they're basically cutscenes that you want to hear all of, then just treat it like a cutscene

But they're not cutscenes. They let you move, but limit you. So it's like...full control is held just out of reach, but is kind of there? And at least with cutscenes there's a clear ending and usually a break between it ending and you playing again.
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XIII_rocks posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

This sounds more like a personal mental hurdle to get over

If they're basically cutscenes that you want to hear all of, then just treat it like a cutscene

But they're not cutscenes. They let you move, but limit you. So it's like...full control is held just out of reach, but is kind of there? And at least with cutscenes there's a clear ending and usually a break between it ending and you playing again.

Just tell yourself they're cutscenes, man. >_>
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Jakyl25 posted...

Walk-and-talk?

How dare you insult the greatest creation of Aaron Sorkin
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Certain games like Bioshock do it really well - you can listen to audio logs while progressing the game as normal. The examples you list are annoying when they pop up though, and I think the Bioshock method still had drawbacks. There's a general trend in games to restrict the player less in games, which is overall a good thing, but it can make story bits less impactful when you're concentrating on gameplay mechanics (or running in circles) at the same time.
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HashtagSEP posted...

Just tell yourself they're cutscenes, man. >_>

No

Because they aren't

This is like Twin Snakes apologists saying "just don't use FPS mode if it makes the game too easy". It is what it is - it's not on me to impose artificial stuff on a game.
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I'm a Twin Snakes apologist that says "additional difficulty gained from not being able to properly aim isn't difficulty I want and you're probably not playing the game on Extreme anyway"
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I mean the M9 does more to break difficultly than FPS alone does anyway for actual stealth, and that applies to every MGS game after 1.
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I just don't think there's a solution, really

People complain about too many cutscenes
People complain about too few cutscenes
People complain about non-cutscene cutscenes

Somebody is always going to be complaining
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they're called in-engine cutscenes
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Depends on the usage. If you get something from the interactivity, be it just moving around the environment or more than that. There is a great example in Route C of Nier Automata (there are a few in this game actually) that tells the story explicitly by giving you control in these scenes.

Also scenes where you are walking slowly while injured are the new walk and talk.
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it's very dumb
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Yeah Nier Automata does this sort of thing perfectly
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kevwaffles posted...

I mean the M9 does more to break difficultly than FPS alone does anyway for actual stealth, and that applies to every MGS game after 1.

Not true

3 has the suppressor wear down and the environments have obstacles that make finding a firing lane occasionally difficult. The areas are also pretty multilevelled at times, and require a perfect headshot for instant tranq. Plus it fires slowly and range is mediocre. 4 and V take advantage of the outdoor settings and the range of the gun to make it more difficult. Also, this doesn't apply to Act 4 and 5 of MGS4 at all, or half of act 3.

I mean I'm not saying it's super difficult to use, it can break the game a little, but I still struggled with 2 and 3 on my first playthrough even with this "broken" weapon. There are some mitigating design factors in 2-V that stop it being too broken.

1 was not designed with that in mind and they didn't make changes to mitigate. You can stand in the corner of the hangar and tranq everyone for instance.
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KamikazePotato posted...

Certain games like Bioshock do it really well - you can listen to audio logs while progressing the game as normal. The examples you list are annoying when they pop up though, and I think the Bioshock method still had drawbacks. There's a general trend in games to restrict the player less in games, which is overall a good thing, but it can make story bits less impactful when you're concentrating on gameplay mechanics (or running in circles) at the same time.

Of course, Bioshock subverts that pretty hard in its most poignant storyline moment...
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Depends on the game really, some games do it well. Gears of War comes to mind.
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Gears of War does do it really well, actually, now that it's been mentioned.

It happens during the action, or while you're moving from Point A to Point B, and doesn't stop you from doing anything
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I think what's makes these worse than normal cutscenes to me is that you largely can't skip them.
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Generally I am annoyed by them. Just let me get to the actual gameplay. The exception is if the game actually has a really good story (Half-Life). Most games that would do this seem to think their story is way better than it actually is.
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I'm playing through World of Final Fantasy and they have this, and it's dumb. If you're moving while someone is talking and a random battle starts, that line of dialogue is just gone because after the battle, the next person will just start talking.

Not that it's really a big problem, because the dialogue is certainly not this game's strong suit.
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gaming needs more MGSV tape recordings
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GranzonEx posted...

gaming needs more MGSV tape recordings

and simultaneously MGSV needed fewer tape recordings
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XIII_rocks posted...

3 has the suppressor wear down

Literally never ran out of suppressors, and I have never played 3 on less than Hard and was never shy about using the tranq, especially on my first playthrough.

XIII_rocks posted...

and the environments have obstacles that make finding a firing lane occasionally difficult.

Heavy on the occasionally. Light on the difficult. At least imo.

XIII_rocks posted...

and require a perfect headshot for instant tranq. Plus it fires slowly and range is mediocre.

I said "for actual stealth" for a reason. Obviously these are big drawbacks in actual combat. Also the range is way better than you're giving it credit for in anything but V.

XIII_rocks posted...

4 and V take advantage of the outdoor settings and the range of the gun to make it more difficult.

V sure, especially if you can't get to an area without getting spotted. Once you're in a base that's less relevant in most cases. 4 I would strongly disagree.

XIII_rocks posted...

Also, this doesn't apply to Act 4 and 5 of MGS4 at all, or half of act 3.

...Because you can literally use lethal weapons without the normal drawbacks of choosing lethal over non-lethal when it's the robots. Also Act 5 has human enemies in a stealth segment, so you can definitely utilize the tranq there.
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Really depends on the game
It's fine..usually
But sometimes it annoys me
Like in GTA, when you are on a mission and they always talk while you are driving the car, but you get close to the goal and they didn't stop talking and I just stop there and wait for them to finish because I don' t want to miss pieces of dialogue and they timed it badly
Also stuff like this is a reason for some Assassin's Creed missions being too long, you just walk alongside someone and he bla bla bla bla for hours
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LeonhartFour posted...

GranzonEx posted...

gaming needs more MGSV tape recordings

and simultaneously MGSV needed fewer tape recordings

after about 100 tapes I still can't distinguish Kaz from Ocelot from time to time
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sneaking in MGSV is very easy if you infiltrate at night with the right camo and DD aka map hacker
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The reason codecs in the MGS games aren't as bad is that you can actually skip through them. Just read the line and press x to go to the next line if you don't feel like waiting for the whole voice clip. Taking away the ability to do this is one of the big flaws of modern cinematic games.
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I'm talking about using it in stealth

If you want that guy KO'd and you miss his head you need to fire again. If you want to get him before he moves you need to fire again. That's a problem with it

Like I said this is a very specific argument we're having. You seem to think it breaks the game, I just think it puts it a bit on the easy side without breaking it completely. But can you at least see the difference between the use of the tranq gun in TTS and in the other games? Like fine if you think the M9 is a broken weapon from 2 onwards would you at least accept that TTS is more broken?
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