Board 8 > transience's top 60 games - 2018 edition

(+) Yeah! (+)

yo!

oh, nice! while i was playing, none of the friend scores were loading so i didn't have a bar to compare to. now that the updates have hit, that'll be the first game i play when i get my shit out of storage.

getting the platinum in that game was so satisfying. definitely the best desert island game.
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I'm not even close to that! then again, I never look at trophies so I couldn't even tell you what's in here. I got all the achievements in n+ though!

I think I remember you saying that you were gonna get it. I take it you ended up liking it? how much?
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I can't believe I forgot Xenogears in my predictions..
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n++ is a top-five game for me, for sure. great recommendation!

its progression/learning curve is amazing. when i finally beat the bottom row and opened up the X row, I played the first couple, laughed, and put the game down. but then i kept trying and was able to beat them all. it does such a great job at teaching (or forcing?) you to get better.
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I learned recently that there are secret challenges in the game. did you know? I had no idea until last week.

I just looked through the various episodes and we're basically like 50/50. some levels you're way up on me, some I'm way up on you. it's not really a high score game where I'd want to replay episodes endlessly because there's just so many damn levels, but I do try to get as good of a score as I can.
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ha, cool!

i read a bit about the secret challenges, but haven't tried any. pretty mindblowing how much they put into this game.
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wait til you see ultimate. and hardcore mode! oh man I love n++

it's too bad this one doesn't have online play. n+ did because a different company worked on it and it was super fun, even though it was glitchy. we would destroy n++ co-op.
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Kaxon posted...

Paratroopa1 posted...

Just wanted to predictably comment that I'm really stoked you like Zelda 1 randomizer

The gospel of Z1R is something I want to spread far and wide

Hey Para, let's get a group together to do a shared seed run of Z1R, and create a discord channel or something to talk about it. That would be great.

Oh hey what's up Kax. Sure let's do it

I like Ori a lot and I'm glad that it has made such an impression on you. I think it isn't just the gameplay, but also some of the pacing that really impressed me. How the gameplay is sequenced, how it impacts your feelings towards the environment/characters, etc. For instance, the water escape followed by the atmosphere at the top... it's perfectly laid out. I don't know if you are into the sequence breaking with the game such that you even remember that stuff or not.
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I'm not interested in sequence breaking Ori. that's not a game I want to run. the tricks that are used are more glitchy than I would like.
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I beat FFV for the first time recently and enjoyed it a ton. Reminded me a lot of playing VIII in that there were a few ways you could abuse the job system to become ridiculously powerful and stomp through the rest of the game.
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I have to say I didn't like Shovel Knight very much at all. Maybe it gets better but the part I played just didn't interest me.
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Anyway I realized I'm too lazy to do a real top 50 (and I don't think too many people would care) so I'm gonna hijack Luke's topic for a quick top 10. (I hope he doesn't mind... let me know if you want me to delete this)

10. Final Fantasy IV

Originally this spot was going to be FF6, but when I was thinking about it I realized I just love 4 more. In a lot of ways 6 is the superior game, but FF IV to me is just more fun. Its light hearted and fast paced. It has a great Uematsu soundtrack - not his best, but for the first SNES FF it was pretty amazing for the time. Sure the story doesnt make much sense but the characters are super likeable. For me this kind of set the bar for what an RPG should be.

9. Super Metroid

Super Metroid is kind of on the list more out of respect than love. I do enjoy the game but it probably wouldnt land in the top 10 on that alone. But this game is a master class in game design. On top of that the spooky soundtrack, the feeling of being all alone on an alien planet, the sense of exploration just excellent.

8. Rock Band 2

In a way this is a stand in for the whole Rock Band series, but 2 is the first one I got hooked on and also the one with the best on-disc setlist - seriously, the songs in this game are awesome. Ive spent so many hours on this game. Before Harmonix did its thing, who would have thought strumming a plastic guitar could be fun?

7. Starcraft: Brood War

The original Starcraft hasnt aged very well, but at the time it was just pure brilliance. (Im pretty sure this game took the top spot the last time I did a list around 2006ish). Great single player experience, multiplayer so deep and balanced it spawned an entire industry in Korea.

6. Final Fantasy Tactics

Ironically, the best Final Fantasy game is a spinoff. Although it didnt have Uematsu, it combined the traditional FF strengths of story and music with a combat system that was actually deep and interesting in its own right. The traditional job classes made it feel like Final Fantasy, but the tactical isometric gameplay made it something different and better.

5. Master of Orion 2

I had played Civilization 1 a little bit, but MOO2 was the first 4X game that really hooked me with the one...more...turn thing. The first time I played MOO2 I literally had dreams about it where I was wondering if it was morning yet so I could play the game some more. MOO2 had an awesome atmosphere, cool alien races, the ability to explore star systems and design your own ships, up to and including death stars (okay, doom stars). When it comes to 4X, exploring space and the future has always felt more compelling to me than revisiting the past.

4. Baldurs Gate 2

BG2 set the standard for what an epic RPG could be. Soo many quests and areas to explore, a main story that was pretty amazing and deeper than most others at the time, a big cast of characters who you have to choose between (encouraging replays), an awesome villain voiced by David Warner. The fact that this was built on 2nd edition D&D rules might be a downside for some people but for me it was a huge positive since I spent so much time learning and playing them as a kid.

Top 3 will come later and probably some honorable mentions... guess if you feel like or don't.
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Excellent and interesting list. Didn't realize Spelunky was that kind of game and now I kind of sort of both want to play it and avoid it entirely because of imminent frustration.

I've also never heard of Tales of Maj'Eyal, but now I want to try it. Might pick it up soon or wait to see if I get into a key topic early (for once). The look of it reminds me of those old BYOND games or an updated Castle of the Winds.

Really interesting list. Love all the Ace Attorney and Metroid fare. I can also agree with others from pages ago that I don't think Danganronpa would be your thing. My favorite parts are the socializing and anime parts, but the cases and how the game treats/runs trials makes me miss Ace Attorney much more than I expected going in.
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Secret of Evermore heck yeah

Tales of Maj'Eyal is like $3. if you don't find it in a key topic, it won't set you back much. there's also a free version, I think, if you don't want it on Steam. just google.
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I guess I should just shamelessly plug my own ranking topic while I'm at it
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Im all about FFIV and Super Metroid. The rest of that took a twist with a bunch of stuff I havent played! Mega Manas is more my speed, haha.

I also had the idea to make a little list, but Im unsure anyone would actually care too much!

heroicmario posted...

Im all about FFIV and Super Metroid. The rest of that took a twist with a bunch of stuff I havent played! Mega Manas is more my speed, haha.

I also had the idea to make a little list, but Im unsure anyone would actually care too much!

You are HM! Yes! We care lots, sir!
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fucking like
10 payday 2?
9 snorederlands 2
8 buncha vs
7 terraria
6 ciV
5 necrodancer
4 kerbal
3 trails
2 factorio
1 ffx
\_()_/
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secret of evermore is trash
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sorry, bud, but an aitch emm list is the mecca of all lists. I am but a mere second.
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heroicmario posted...

Im all about FFIV and Super Metroid. The rest of that took a twist with a bunch of stuff I havent played! Mega Manas is more my speed, haha.

I also had the idea to make a little list, but Im unsure anyone would actually care too much!

you could make a list once per week and I'd read it

mostly because I know it will be completely different every time...!
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also, I don't find Spelunky that frustrating. it's a game you can laugh along with. there's a curve in learning the explicit behaviors of everything but I think being in that curve is the best part of the experience. it's when you know what's coming but fall victim to it anyway that gets people.
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Alright, top 3:

3. Braid

Its kind of amazing how well everything in Braid came together, especially when you consider many of the assets werent even created specifically for the game. Braid grabbed me from the title screen, where I just had to stop and look at the flaming background while I listened to Maenam play. Both the gameplay and the story are things that could only exist in reference to established tropes - the gameplay does an outstanding job of adding interesting twists to established formulae and playing around with them just enough to be interesting but not wasting your time with filler. If theres a strike against Braid its that ultimately I think the story tries to make itself look deeper than it really is (the Oppenheimer quote is the most obvious example), but the fact that the style was good enough to even pass itself off as being that deep rather than seeming fake or pretentious is an achievement in itself. The style (text) and the gameplay also meld perfectly in the final stage such that the twist feels like the logical conclusion of the game and the story, while being surprising because it subverts convention.

2. Sid Meiers Alpha Centauri

The best Final Fantasy game is a spinoff, but the best Civilization game doesnt even have Civilization in the title. What makes SMAC far and away better than every other Sid Meier game? I like the word atmosphere a lot but really I think it would probably be better described as flavor. Civ games have always had kind of a fundamental goofiness with the idea of people like Gandhi and Abe Lincoln leading civilizations in 4000 BC, and somehow living through the entire game to the present day. Not to mention all kinds of completely ahistoric events that happen in every game. Freed from the constraints of the past, the SMAC team came up with a set of flavorful factions that made sense and played brilliantly. Each faction had an agenda, a gameplay design that fit with that agenda, and most importantly a bunch of great quotes read by awesome voice actors that showcased their ideology. (True, a few of the factions in the expansion were duds, but all of the original 7 were super well designed - even if I hate some of them like freaking Sister Miriam). Then you have the planet itself, and the light but well done storyline related to that.

Mechanically, being able to customize your units is a big improvement over having a list of specific units to build and provided a lot more diversity to what you could do while ALSO making it easier to comprehend - you instantly know a 6-1-2 is better than a 4-1-2 and once you know what each number is (attack, defense, and move) you can compare any two units. Finally, researching future tech is just more exciting than literally reinventing the wheel.

Sorry, went over character limit (how appropriate) so #1 is in the next post.
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1. Suikoden 2

To me, Genso Suikoden II is the pinnacle of the JRPG genre. It basically does everything I like about the genre while minimizing everything I dont like. On the good side you have stuff like lots of recruitable characters, minigames, building up your own town/castle, multiple combat systems, multi-character combo attacks, multiple endings, 2d art (with light 3d effects at some points). On the list of stuff I dont like about JRPGs - it basically all falls under the category of grinding, and they do away with it completely. The minigames are optional, the characters are either optional or unmissible, theres never any need to grind for levels.

The 108(+) playable characters is an example of how they take things to ridiculous extremes. Obviously Suikoden 1 did this first, but Suikoden 2 did a great job of bringing back cool characters from the original and creating a bunch more. Fortunately, many are optional and I think the game is actually better if you dont recruit every one. But as well as characters, minigames are another area where they kind of go overboard. Most of them are kind of pointless (as minigames usually are) but the Iron Chef minigame stands as one of the greatest minigames of all time. The combat is standard JRPG fare but very fast - but there are also two alternate combat systems: one for large army battles and one for one on one duels. Neither one is terribly deep but theyre both used infrequently enough that theyre a really cool change of pace to highlight important story moments.

Its a bit of a paradox that Suikoden 2 is both huge and small at the same time - theres a ton of stuff you can do and yet the game is half the length of a lot of JRPGs just because everything moves so quickly. But the best part of the game is definitely the story. Its just a moving and emotional story, augmented with a great soundtrack by Miki Higashino. It has one of the most despicable villains in any game Ive played and an epic sequence to take him down - but thats not the end of the game. I cant say enough good things about Suikoden 2, it just has everything I want from a JRPG.
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one year I will finish suikoden 2
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every couple months I think about making that top rpgs list Ive been talking about doing for 10 years and then decide not to
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Braid fans in tha house.
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Suikoden 1 > Suikoden 2
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transcience posted...

also, I don't find Spelunky that frustrating. it's a game you can laugh along with.

Yeah, a common complaint I see is "I entered a jungle level and a caveman with the door in his line of sight instantly threw a boomerang at me before I could even move" but, like, that's really funny
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To map the very stuff of life; to look into the genetic mirror and watch a million generations march past. That, friends, is both our curse and our proudest achievement. For it is in reaching to our beginnings that we begin to learn who we truly are.
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that kind of truly unfair BS hasn't happened. it's usually more like 'all of my options to move forward here are bad, let me stop and think OH GOD A GHOST'
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WazzupGenius00 posted...

transcience posted...

also, I don't find Spelunky that frustrating. it's a game you can laugh along with.

Yeah, a common complaint I see is "I entered a jungle level and a caveman with the door in his line of sight instantly threw a boomerang at me before I could even move" but, like, that's really funny

That's how I feel about some of the stuff the Souls games throw at you. Most of it can be predicted through caution and observation, and then you go to open a chest and oh god it's eating you. It's not especially fair but it's honestly hilarious (and is easily avoidable on the second try).
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I like things about Spelunky, but after a few hours the ghost annoyed me lots. I also got frustrated with the lack of variation in the early levels while still coming up too short to get shortcuts to the deeper levels.
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the ghost is a hint that you're too slow. I rarely see him and am fairly good about getting around him if necessary. I get hit sometimes, but I get hit by everything sometimes.
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This is a good topic, everyone. Definitely taking down some notes
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Kaxon posted...

the game is actually better if you dont recruit every one.

as a true Nanami fangirl, I strongly disagree!!
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ToME get. died right away on my first character. Made a berserker whom i did well with until distracted by stuff out of game that made me tilt around level 24.
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Applekidrose posted...

Kaxon posted...

the game is actually better if you dont recruit every one.

as a true Nanami fangirl, I strongly disagree!!

I love Nanami, but IMO the "good" ending just... doesn't work. It's by far the weakest part of the story.

Spoiler

Faking her own death... what the hell kind of horrible nasty trick is that?!?! I can't actually like Nanami if she's someone who would trick her brother into believing she was dead (not to mention Dr. Huan going along with it) - it's just too cruel and utterly stupid. What they should have done is put the branch before her death scene and made her block the last arrow if you have all the characters.

Also, the idea of the three mains just walking off into the sunset together doesn't fit with the rest of the game. Jowy and Riou can't just reconcile after they fought a war against each other. In my view the story's tragedy isn't just having to fight against your best friend, it's that ultimately... your best friend turns into an evil person. Riou still feels friendship for him but they can't just go off and live happily ever after. IMO the ending at the waterfall is the perfect conclusion to that story - although I would have preferred a version where Nanami survives (without the fake death thing).
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Jowy wasn't evil.
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But, I know some people feel differently and if you like that ending that's cool. I'm actually kind of jealous of you.
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i have some real strong feelings of disagreement but I don't wanna make a big thing about it here!

i guess it's cool that different people can enjoy things differently, and I should just be happy about that
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I am now 560 holes in, this game is godlike
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it's so damn playable
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wait

symphony of the night wasnt on the list

ummmm
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that game sucks
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ToME is addictive and hard and fun and awesome.
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aw yeah another one hooked
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play n++

see you all in 2020
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