Board 8 > Zero Time Dilemma: A KCF Playthrough Topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

It was probably just a knee-jerk reaction to the Diana/Sigma segment. The Ambidex fragment and Door of Truth return were pretty great with Ambidex possibly being my favorite fragment thus far. If the ending fragments/segments are closer to those two, I think that I will be relatively fine.
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I hope to provide a huge update later on
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C team: Get Back

Shifted to Anthropic Principle, and a recording of Zero claims to have been executed by Carlos in that timeline. Q team was dead. In the Back to the Future talk, they did say that time travel could be in essence murdering by erasing the old, so Carlos is on the table. Mira and Eric are also possibilities, but not likely Q. Diana and Sigma are also dead, but that seems highly unlikely that they are Zero. I'm thinking Delta is probably Zero due to the most likely to being the old man from Sean's time among the living and having the family portrait in the Pod Room, but I haven't figured out how he was executed.

New fragments opened up for C and Q team, so...

C team: Apocalypse

Taking place clearly after Diana released R-6, this is the timeline that Zero claims to be alive. Only D team should be alive, so unless Phi is somehow Zero, this all but confirms Delta is Zero and there's no need for another Zerometer. I guess someone could still be an assistant since I don't personally consider Sean to be one (his other copies are a different story).

Zero claims his intentions were kind of well-intentioned. Instead of the human race going extinct, two billion live. I can understand the rationale. We also have an update to the snail story:

Snail = Carlos
Killer = Mira
Victim = Eric's Mother
Falsely Accused = Akane's Father
Taxi Driver = ?
Surgeon = ?
Surgeon's Patient = Q?

Zero said he was Brother and that he was born here, so yeah, Delta is Zero. Zerometer officially not returning this game. Sorry to disappoint.
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Delta and Phi were sent back to 1904. This is like 2028/2029 correct? I'm guessing that when Phi and Delta were sent to the past, they kept Delta (probably not since he'd be long dead by now) then took one look at Phi and went, "Eww gross!" and sent her a century forward. Otherwise, we are looking at this Phi being original Phi's great grandaughter or something.

Vive Hodie must be to open the Force Quit boxes. So Akane's an anagram whiz, but she can't figure out that the letters D, L, T, E, A (not sure if that was the order) can mean Delta? I don't really understand how Carlos reached the outside in this timeline. If he waited 10 months to use the transporter, wouldn't he have woken up trapped inside here?

C End 1
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You missed the best implication of all of this, that Sigma spent the entirety of VLR relentlessly trying to fuck his daughter
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C team, Force Quit return

Vive Hodie was exactly what I needed, not that it makes sense to me for Carlos to know it. He wasn't there when Delta/Zero uttered it. Then again, if SHIFTing and morphogenetic field stuff are essentially the same thing, maybe he unknowingly gained the information through the pool of Akane and Junpei's knowledge.

Uh...it's clearly an act, but where is this fake flirting and rape thing leading to? I'm guessing that Carlos broke the glass to collect the shards and hand them out to everyone out of the view of cameras. Maybe? I don't know, but it appears that something was exchanged behind the bar and Carlos raised suspicion earlier to not raise suspicion later.

Q team: Force Quit

I swear there are more solo Gab shots than of anyone else in the game save maybe Diana and Eric. Does Gab have a camera on him or something? They eventually wanted a number code for the quantum computer. It wasn't the one for Q's head (it took ages for me to find where I wrote it down), so I guess I have to bounce from this fragment.

D team: Force Quit

I guess with the knowledge that all teams are awake at different times, C team already opened the Force Quit box, and D team must now put in the brooch and birdcage. I haven't had to look up how to solve puzzles more than 2-3 times in the game, but I actually had to look up that they needed me to make birdcage into two words.

It just occurred to me that some of the dialogs between Phi and Sigma in VLR and earlier in this game are super creepy when you know they are father and daughter. That being said, how would they know that Phi is their daughter? Sigma named Phi after, well, Phi and sent her to 1904. What reason would he have to believe that this Phi is his Phi? The brooch could have just been handed down from person to person if this Phi is actually like the great granddaughter of original Phi.
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DeathChicken posted...

You missed the best implication of all of this, that Sigma spent the entirety of VLR relentlessly trying to fuck his daughter

Talk about impeccable timing
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I do wonder how much the writer of the series planned in advance.
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Q team: Q

Damn, I needed Q's helmet code and had to spend some time looking for it again. I guess it's go-time. I must put in who I think is Zero. There's no question that it's Delta, so I'm a little bummed that this decision doesn't have the impact that it should.

"Stop yapping Sean. This old man's name is Q" - Eric to Q/Sean
- Uh, what the fuck is going on? Eric never called Q Sean before and what's this about an old ma...there was a goddamn man in a wheelchair here the entire time and he followed around all the teams in their fragments!?. Nobody acknowledged his presence at any time? So for like 90% of the game, the camera was always from his perspective? This is so ridiculously stupid that I love it. Now this is a twist I can appreciate for its subtle, simple, ludicrosity.

Delta cops to killing Mira because she was a serial killer. However, Mira killed Junpei (never went into the circumstances. Mira was also a collaborator in the sense that Delta allowed her to do whatever she wanted without any barriers, including being drugged. I'm glad they brought it up again, but Heart Ripper was the serial killer's name given by police/media. She was the cloaked killer? Her skin tone didn't match that cloaked person at all. I looked it up online immediately after being told this, and I guess their nails matched, but I never paid close attention to that. I have other issues with that particular revelation, but I can save that for character rankings and overall game takeaways.

Delta has mind control powers it seems, so that explains the First come, First saved fragments. He spared his mom for reasons unknown. Only difference Sigma and Diana should be to him on a personal level is that she named him, so sucks to be Sigma I guess.

Out of curiosity, I put in Delta for Triangle since they did ask me for Q's real name. Eureka! I still don't understand how Eric knows that Q is Sean in this timeline, but maybe Eric never called Sean Q ever, and I just made an incorrect assumption regarding that. Anyway, the conclusion was hilarious and that could be my favorite moment in the game.
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Now go back to that scene where you can type in a name to have someone shot and try him
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I wanted to wrap up the Q fragment, so I intentionally messed up the helmet code and put in Gab for real Zero, but nothing particular interested happened in either case. I also wrapped up Force Quit for Q team, and nothing stood out to me except noticing just how excessively long Mira's legs are.
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Don't recall if this is a spoiler at this point (IIRC it isn't but I'm erring on the point of safety), but

Q/Delta is part of Q team, and isn't present in C/D-team fragments

Also along the same lines (Though I'm more confident this isn't a spoiler)

You're completely correct about Eric never actually calling Sean "Q". The game was intentionally designed to mislead players into thinking Sean was Q on that front though
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DeathChicken posted...

Now go back to that scene where you can type in a name to have someone shot and try him

I will try the Suspicion and Pop Off decisions later.
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There's a funny spoiler in this game where you learn that Delta is Zero's real name long before you learn that he's been following around Q Team, so it's easy to trigger that ending in Triangle and greatly confuse yourself. That's what I did anyway.
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Sceptilesolar posted...

There's a funny spoiler in this game where you learn that Delta is Zero's real name long before you learn that he's been following around Q Team, so it's easy to trigger that ending in Triangle and greatly confuse yourself. That's what I did anyway.

This happened to me as well. I was not happy when it happened since I was just randomly guessing names at that time and didn't actually have anything figured out.
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Phi being Sigma's daughter was a very popular fan theory after VLR.

There's even some foreshadowing, such as when Sigma chooses to inexplicably save Phi over K
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Good thing Triangle was one of the first post-vote fragments that I did.
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I did the same thing but it didn't really bother me since IMO its a better way to reveal it than the actual way its revealed which is just kinda 'oh yeah there's a guy there'

There's actually an absolute crap load of foreshadowing that Delta is there though, including several times you can see his shadow and in the acid chamber for Q team you can hear him screaming with the rest (and in the collar execution you hear 4 bodies hit the ground).

Regardless, MIND HACK

DeepsPraw posted...

Phi being Sigma's daughter was a very popular fan theory after VLR.

There's even some foreshadowing, such as when Sigma chooses to inexplicably save Phi over K

They also had a paternal embrace during one of the timelines where a bomb went off, but I wasn't reminded of it until a particular scene that I can't recall from this game.
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KCF0107 posted...

Q team, Pop Off return

I tried Gab, Mira, Eric, Carlos, Q, and Myself. I only did myself because Eric said Q was impossible. I suspect that's what he says whenever you enter an unrelated answer, but it is still something to remember.

So there you go. Q is impossible because to Eric, he's just a blind, deaf, paraplegic.
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KCF0107 posted...

Zerometer officially not returning this game. Sorry to disappoint.

There can still be a Zerometer...

oh nvm
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KCF0107 posted...

So for like 90% of the game, the camera was always from his perspective? This is so ridiculously stupid that I love it. Now this is a twist I can appreciate for its subtle, simple, ludicrosity.

It's great because Zero is essentially the same as in the previous games - you, the player. But even if you figured that fact out earlier, it doesn't take away from the insanity of this reveal. That "you" were just some old dude in a wheelchair looking through cameras.
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The instant I saw the name Delta in D End 2 I went to Triangle and put in the name and it was the most insane reveal ever. Definitely the best way to do it.
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The Delta twist is actually probably the most well foreshadowed end game twist of all 3 games. There's a reddit post that lists like 80 different instances of foreshadowing before the reveal, its actually kind of impressive.

The only thing that makes it kind of dumb is no one ever calls Sean 'Sean' before the reveal but that's at least a little bit more believable than Sigma never once touching his face in VLR and noticing there was a massive bionic eye on him.

EDIT: Probably my favorite foreshadowing is when Sigma and Diana are stuck in the shelter together, when Diana has Delta and Phi, if you check the status screen during this it will list both Phi and Q as alive despite listing them as dead until that happens.

Final Decision

I was confused as to when Carlos got the alien cards (not that I believe they explained how anyone figured out those are thick enough to be impenetrable to the watch needles), but I guess Akane got them off camera as he lured Junpei away. So many pot calling kettle black moments in this game. Carlos didn't let Junpei in on the plan because Junpei seemed like he was a bad actor, but Carlos was awful at selling his act.

I'm also confused on Delta's motives. So far, I have heard he did it to save humanity, because he wanted to be born with the mind hacking abilities, and he was simply curious. While I guess those aren't in conflict with each other, they seem to be all over the place.

Phi was sent from 1904 to 2008, but Delta really is 124 years old. Is that just not going to be explained how he became the oldest person on record to live and for him to be as physically and mentally spry as he is? For as good as some people are at operating during a crisis, Phi and Eric are are basically at the bottom of that totem poll, and I can't really feel sorry for the rest for letting those two lead them to a self-destruct counter.

I could do without a totally uncalled for shot of dead Gab. I guess I forgot that the characters wouldn't know that Delta can control minds. Well, Diana probably did based when she survived the quantum room massacre, but she's not exactly great at putting two and two together. Ah yes, one of the oldest tricks in the book: Have the villain tell the protagonists they have two options and die before the second one is revealed. We love it when that happens, said no one ever.
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Payoff 2

So the true, underlying reason Delta did all this was as a call of action for everyone to get their heads out of their asses and make a positive change for the future. I think we know who the real hero in all of this is.

End Game
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Well you see, his motives are complex
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Also there is more epilogue after the end if you go look at your Archive files
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I went back and shifted before explosion to choose not to shift. I also read the epilogues as was asked of me. Picturing the Sean/Eric/Mira one made me laugh.

Final game time - 21:53:00

Official End Game
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Now for the best part of the game: The super secret cut ending!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfOsjVT8mlU
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I also want to be forthcoming that I actually beat the game almost 24 hours ago, so there was never going to another Zerometer anyway. I posted everything with my original thoughts and reactions though.
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Guess it's time for this then:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ZeroEscape/comments/4qsmvu/ztd_spoilerslets_find_all_of_the_foreshadowing
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KCF0107 posted...

I'm also confused on Delta's motives

lol
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So I intend to rank:
- Escape Rooms
- Characters
- Teams

And in doing so, I think that will cover a lot of my thoughts toward the game. Anyone is free to comment or ask any questions from me in the meantime.

That being said, it is probably my least favorite game from the trilogy. I think the biggest issue is that the disjointed design from fragments makes it really hard to get into the groove with the plot and characters. A lackluster script and poor visuals/special effects also hindered some moments, themes, and characters, so there was plenty that didn't resonate with me and plenty that infuriated me.

While the escape room puzzles overall probably weren't as good as those in VLR, I like how they were meaty yet brief. I'm also glad that they didn't hold punches this time. VLR never treading into the really dark territory and lack of atmosphere really held it back, but those were among ZTD's best strengths.

While the first two games kind of dragged to its disappointing finale, I must say that ZTD finished quite strong after being Ever17'd toward the end. It is true that the game didn't really resolve the core issue of preventing humanity from the apocalypse and instead traded one of the other, but I can forgive it because of stuff like everything with Delta and the C team SHIFTing bonanza.
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KCF0107 posted...

DeathChicken posted...

Now go back to that scene where you can type in a name to have someone shot and try him

I will try the Suspicion and Pop Off decisions later.

I have to remember to do this
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Eerieka posted...

One sentence has me grinning pretty hard.

I must also look at my first Zerometer analysis to determine what it was
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Also, I don't understand why Carlos was the snail then. I'm guessing that I misinterpreted what Delta meant unless Carlos was the snail solely because he was the one who was going to call the coinflip.
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Carlos was the snail in the Radical 6 outbreak
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Because of the timeline when he came back to save Junpei and Akane instead of whatever impossible task Akane expected him to do?
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It's never spelled out, but always got the impression Akane was just fine with death and destruction if she could look at it through a save state filter, but when confronted with shit directly (like when Jumpy is murdered) she freaks the hell out. Always thought that was a neat touch
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KCF0107 posted...

Because of the timeline when he came back to save Junpei and Akane instead of whatever impossible task Akane expected him to do?

Yeah

In the vast majority of timelines, VLR didn't happen. That's why Carlos was the snail in the VLR timeline.
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I should be ready to focus on rankings tomorrow, but the escape rooms won't have much in the way of write-ups
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These are almost purely based on the puzzles with presentation making some effect.

Escape Room rankings
13. Power Room
12. Manufacturing
11. Infirmary
10. Incinerator Room
9. Study
8. Pantry
7. Biolab
6. Rec Room
5. Pod Room
4. Locker Room
3. Transporter Room
2. Control
1. Healing Room

Power Room and Manufacturing were the only two that I found truly boring.

Infirmary (poster), Incinerator (multi-perspective and goggles), Study (character depictions) all had some cool things in the presentation department, but the actual puzzles were underwhelming.

Pantry had one of the most unsettling atmospheres since I figured all the body parts were real. I felt like the puzzles could have had more to it since it was mostly finding objects and heating/freezing them, but it was kind of fun.

Biolab was one of the few (just two if I recall) of those puzzles where they give you many different versions of, and you have to test them, record information, and make correct judgments based on those. It had to do with the colored vials and mixing/separating them. Normally, I hate those puzzles that eschew being robust in favor of giving you busy work, but this one clicked with me.

I was pretty bad with Rec and Pod Rooms in some aspects. I kept getting stuck on what to do next in rec room (it took me ages on how I was supposed to open the chess set), and in the pod room, I had difficulty figuring out some of the later sliding block puzzles and the room alignment ones where you had Eric hammer circles. The layouts were among the best in the game, and in the rec room's case, it was one of the meatiest escape sequences. That one might have taken me the longest, which surprisingly wasn't to its detriment.

The Locker Room was probably the creepiest and made me the most agitated in its atmosphere despite just being a set of sinks, lockers, and shower stalls. They kind of had you do more than I would have expected with such little to work with. There were only two or three escape rooms that filled me with a greater sense of accomplishment after completing.

Like many have mentioned, I liked the alien language deciphering in Transporter Room, but it does lose points for the stupid one-on-one card battle to determine the "strength" of certain symbols.

Not everything from Control was a winner (rotating colored things), but minigames were outstanding, and I really liked the implementation of the sunglasses.

Healing Room gets my top spot since Spot the Piano Key was my favorite thing to do from any escape room. I don't even remember much else about the room except grabbing a knife from a wall and putting the piano keys back in order/playing them in order.
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Now to ranking the ten major characters

10. Mira

The problem that plot-driven games often have is that they do whatever they want to characters so they can fit the plot in. Mira doesn't have much going for her, but the simple yet refreshing reason for her becoming a serial killer was a great start. Unfortunately, and maybe this is also a consequence of the fragment system, they tried to established multiple, conflicting variants of her serial killer ways. The icing on the cake was when they revealed that the cloaked killer from Suppression and Junpei's killer from Suspicion was Mira. Without making this an essay, there was absolutely no reason based on how they presented Mira and The Heart Ripper that she would conceal her identity in Suppression (where did the cloak come from?) or completely dismember Junpei (leaving Akane and Carlos spared no less). They had the option to attempt, not necessarily convince the player, to explain these extreme shifts through alternative timelines, but the game simply didn't care about that. Eventually, I caught on that she was simply there as a narrative device and would change her in any way to make that possible.

Outside of her ending in Triangle, she didn't really say or do anything of interest. She also suffered from mediocre voice acting. I know her character isn't flush with robust characteristics to work with, but the voice actress didn't really sell herself as Mira well at all. I liken Mira's struggle to conceptualize feeling and empathize with the feelings of others to someone who would talk in a more blunt, matter-of-fact manner not unlike Phi. I think that Delta, maybe a cinema file, or perhaps even Mira herself mentioned that she puts on an act when in conversation. I think it's very clear she enjoys talking to others as it forms the basis for her fascination with people and their hearts. The tone and intonation of her voice just seems way off to me, and that ultimately hurts her as a character. Granted, she didn't have a particularly high ceiling to begin with, but still, her voice actress didn't do her any favors.
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9. Diana

I want to punch her stupid face with its (hilariously) awful expressions. I hate the way she dresses. I hate how she fucking wilts under pressure without fail ways in ways that make Eric look as cool as a cucumber. I hate how much of a goddamn idiot she was in Outbreak. Do not get me started on her role in getting me Ever17'd in such an awful, contrived way. Subsequently, I hate how she got super emotional realizing when Phi was her daughter when Phi said like two nice things about Diana the entire game and then gave her fucking son absolutely no love whatsoever who as it turns out appreciates and loves his mom a million more times than Phi ever will.

No character bothered me remotely as many times or to the degree as Diana did. She isn't last because at least the game didn't treat her as a plaything like Mira and Diana had moments pre-Ever17'd that I liked about. There was just too much going against her and there was no hope of recovery after that fragment.
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I feel like Zero Escape always has like one or two just plain bad characters

Mira was definitely one of those

Diana was my #1 IIRC hahaha
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Yeah I don't agree on Diana at all she was easily the best character in the game

I didn't like her as much as I did Junpei and Akane's very, very fucked up dynamic, but yeah Diana was okay for a character meant to be a chronically abused doormat
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KCF0107 posted...

Subsequently, I hate how she got super emotional realizing when Phi was her daughter when Phi said like two nice things about Diana the entire game and then gave her fucking son absolutely no love whatsoever who as it turns out appreciates and loves his mom a million more times than Phi ever will.

I mean, this is all makes sense

Diana is totally screwed up and Delta has incredible mommy issues (part of his....... complex...... motives)
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