Board 8 > Bye guys

(+) Yeah! (+)

Lopen posted...

If you give the police the benefit of a doubt, we're not talking about murder, though.

If you give anyone the benefit of the doubt then they haven't done anything wrong. What the hell kind of argument is this?
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Lopen posted...

Ignore Tim's shit, and ask him a question if you want him to ask a question, or fight if you want to fight. Nothing wrong with fighting if that's what you want. But if you claim you don't want any trouble and go start it,

And that's the problem we're having here.

Timjab, by entering a topic and attacking people, has in fact started trouble. It is not the fault of Inviso (many things are but not this) that Timjab is needlessly hostile. This is why people are saying you're giving Tim an out - right there.

I agree with a lot of your post, there is definitely a cycle that led to this, but your wording there is exactly what people are talking about with your defence of Tim.
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I'm pretty sure there's no grey area for a teacher fucking their student. There is grey area for someone being killed by the police being murder vs not. That's the distinction you're not making.
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How many teachers do we actually have here?
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isn't applekidrose one...... in japan....
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XIII_rocks posted...

Timjab, by entering a topic and attacking people, has in fact started trouble. It is not the fault of Inviso (many things are but not this) that Timjab is needlessly hostile. This is why people are saying you're giving Tim an out - right there.

I realize that

What you don't realize is I'm not trying to say that Timjab should be forgiven. I'm saying that in a different situation, a different career choice or set of ideologies, those two would literally be Timjab, and are generally as bad as him when a fight actually starts, or starting fights that don't need to be started.

Like the only reason Timjab is more confrontational is because he disagrees on a more regular basis and has more enemies on the board. That's it.
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Lopen posted...

I'm pretty sure there's no grey area for a teacher fucking their student. There is grey area for someone being killed by the police being murder vs not. That's the distinction you're not making.

There's gray area for all crimes: it's whether they were actually committed or not. This is true whether the crime is murder, rape, or whatever.

Why should we give benefit of the doubt to police but not teachers?
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I wonder if he'll insist he's not TimJab for months again when he comes back.
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While i hate Timjabs attitude and his racist outlooks on various Topics , I've only had a few interactions with them and they were actually very good.

He wished me well when my father passed away and even donated money to me and told me to talk to him if I needed it.

And do y'all remember when that weird hobo showed up at my house? He actually offered some advice on what to do.

But what's funny, and I'll never forget, is that like three posts later he pulled a 180 and called me a dumbass and then pointed out I was the one that should have been arrested for assault cause I pushed the hobo away

It's like he forgot he was supposed to be acting a certain way and corrected himself.

It's very clear he doesn't like associating with us. Iirc some b8ers hung out with him and he hated being called timjab in public among other things. So when he was being sincere with me, he was like Lawl o wate.

But he obviously uses this place as an outlet for his horrible thoughts that probably come from the job and doesn't seem to want to find other places to do so
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And why does he have more enemies on the board? Because he's confrontational. This is just going around in circles.

But you seem to think Tim is a good-ish guy negatively affected by this environment, while I think he's kind of a shitty and hostile person who negatively affects this environment.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, to be honest. At this point, certainly.
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KISS KISS. FIGHT FIGHT.

caps caps
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CaptainOfCrush posted...

And JetJaguar is closed now.

I noticed too. I was about to make a smartass comment like Tim is reading this topic with his dick in his hand but decided to double check first lol
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Kenri posted...

There's gray area for all crimes: it's whether they were actually committed or not. This is true whether the crime is murder, rape, or whatever.

Why should we give benefit of the doubt to police but not teachers?

Police basically have two layers of doubt to crack through. Once it's known that a cop killed a guy is when the articles get printed-- that's unfortunately just how the news works. It's more interesting to report on the actual death.

However, on the next layer, it's proving whether killing was necessary or whether it was murder. The articles usually come out before there's conclusive evidence on that-- Tim tends to start from the end of "necessary job hazard" and the board at large tends to start on the end of "murder" so there is a point of contention there, and yeah, if it's always assumed that it's murder, it's easy to see why he gets defensive.

Now on the end of the fucked student, it's only once it's known the student has been fucked, the article is published. There's not really any wiggle room there. There was a teacher. There was a student. There was a fucking. That's it.
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There are some crimes where the only question is whether the act took place. That's not a gray area. The question of whether the act was a crime is a gray area.
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Heroic Bigpun posted...

I noticed too. I was about to make a smartass comment like Tim is reading this topic with his dick in his hand but decided to double check first lol

And I was going to say that there's still AmericanDragon, but that's closed too!
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He calls people nerds but He names his accounts after godzilla monsters and Disney cartoons
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XIII_rocks posted...

And why does he have more enemies on the board? Because he's confrontational. This is just going around in circles.

Incorrect

He has more enemies because he's equally confrontational, but there are more people to clash with, and after clashing with these people, the negative interaction causes other people to clash with him. And it snowballs.

Like... on an extreme example, say you've got three extreme bigots. One hates Jewish people, and the other two hate gay people. Now say all three are on a message board, and say at some point it's revealed that the majority of the board is Jewish. Meanwhile, the known gay people are far and few between.

It'll be a lot easier to see that the hater of Jewish people is a massive bigot than the anti-gay people, as they don't interact with a lot of known gay people on the board, even though at their core they have the same fundamental issue.
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Lopen posted...

I mean, surely you can understand why Tim might take that as a bit of an attack when B8 acts disgusted like that about police actions, and does it frequently, particularly in his mind when they're not seeing the whole picture or even wanting to see it.

Like if you actually level with him and say "hey, could you elaborate" in a non-confrontational manner he will actually unpack the whys and such. I've seen it happen.

Basically, in those situations, Tim escalates, and if you're the bigger man and don't escalate further from that point, he absolutely can be talked to. In any given sample of b8ers interacting with a police topic and Tim though, someone on the other side is going to have thin skin or a lack of patience, which in turn usually ends up distracting Tim from the people who aren't being dicks to him. So in the end, it turns out that very seldom does this actually happen.

Like yeah, he's definitely part of the problem cause he's very confrontational. I'm just saying there are times when he's clearly not even the main issue in the exchange, like the politics topic incident that caused this.

The line that set him off in that scenario was "The strangest thing about that video was him handcuffing the dead body". It was just a random observation about the video not even directed at Timjab. But he was too offended by the opinion that handcuffing and obviously dead body was stranger to the general public than the idea of "suicide by cop". It set him off on a rant about it not being their job to provide medical assistance, declare somebody dead, and how police procedure dictates they handcuff the body. Something he could easily have done without all the insults and turning it into an argument. He doesn't do that though.
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one of these days lopen will avoid an endless both sides tirade as a way to deflect from one
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Hm

My opinion of Inviso isn't so low that I think he would be Timjab if less people agreed with him, I suppose

I feel like I've seen Inviso at his worst through the years and his style is more that of a smug, passive-aggressive douchebag as compared to Tim's more open, vicious hostility. I prefer Inviso all day long because Inviso's style doesn't set topics on fire. They aren't comparable people to me.
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lordloki12 posted...

Something he could easily have done without all the insults and turning it into an argument. He doesn't do that though.

Again

I know. That is not the point I'm making.

It's not Timjab is not at any sort of fault it's "suck it up and be the better person if you really want to talk-- it works!"
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And it does sound like you're absolving Timjab of a lot here no matter what you say. He is what he is because of his environment, essentially, and that given the right situation, the right story, others can be shaped into Tim. I don't buy into that - eventually you have to make your own choices, develop some self-awareness and change the way you act
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Heroic Bigpun posted...

He calls people nerds but He names his accounts after godzilla monsters and Disney cartoons

I think he admitted a long time ago he stays on this board mainly because he has nowhere else to really talk about his nerdy interests

Also I think its professional wrestling
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I'm trying to get people to change the way they act, or at least, curb it a bit.

Awareness is the first step. Given their reactions to Tim I don't think there's even an awareness. That's the main thing I want.
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Lopen posted...

lordloki12 posted...

Something he could easily have done without all the insults and turning it into an argument. He doesn't do that though.

Again

I know. That is not the point I'm making.

It's not Timjab is not at any sort of fault it's "suck it up and be the better person if you really want to talk-- it works!"

I don't think it's the mark of a good or better person to simply allow Timjab to behave that way unchecked and to reward his behaviour with well-meaning conversation.

To me, the ideal solution (as you are acutely aware) was to blanket ignore him until he changed the way he acted or stopped entirely. But that was never going to happen.

Like people do want to talk, just not with someone who treats them like shit from the outset, and that's absolutely reasonable. Solution? Don't treat them like shit
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Yeah, he frequents the PWB but I don't see him too much.
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TimJab's user name on the forum we frequented before coming to B8 was stink nugget
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Lopen posted...

lordloki12 posted...

Something he could easily have done without all the insults and turning it into an argument. He doesn't do that though.

Again

I know. That is not the point I'm making.

It's not Timjab is not at any sort of fault it's "suck it up and be the better person if you really want to talk-- it works!"

Why hold everyone else to that standard and not him?
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Lopen's defence of Timjab here is lukewarm at best, you guys should relax a little and stop reading too much into things when he's speaking plainly. MNSHO
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lordloki12 posted...

Why hold everyone else to that standard and not him?

Because other people claim to be better than him.

Other people haven't closed their accounts

They can leave too, if they really want

Like why are you guys even making this about Tim. Dude's gone. Who cares. If you want a token win, I can lie and say I feel Tim is worse than these other people (of which, you are closer to in the Inviso/Ltm category than not based on my observations if we're keeping score-- you just post less) but it's frankly not relevant. Point stands no matter if Tim is more to blame or less or equal.
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Esuriat posted...

Heroic Bigpun posted...

I noticed too. I was about to make a smartass comment like Tim is reading this topic with his dick in his hand but decided to double check first lol

And I was going to say that there's still AmericanDragon, but that's closed too!

but he can still read topics without being logged on
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TimJab's general antagonistic and douchey attitude here always had me picture him as the cop from Harold and Kumar.

I'm sure he's a swell dude IRL, this place just seemed to bring out the worst in him.
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MenuWars posted...

Lopen's defence of Timjab here is lukewarm at best, you guys should relax a little and stop reading too much into things when he's speaking plainly. MNSHO

I get that he's not blindly saying Tim is great or anything but there are still problems with what he's saying.

The notion that Inviso would be as vicious as Tim if Vis had gone a different way in life I find borderline preposterous.
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Lopen posted...

lordloki12 posted...

Why hold everyone else to that standard and not him?

Because other people claim to be better than him.

Other people haven't closed their accounts

They can leave too, if they really want

Like why are you guys even making this about Tim. Dude's gone. Who cares. If you want a token win, I can lie and say I feel Tim is worse than these other people (of which, you are closer to in the Inviso/Ltm category than not based on my observations if we're keeping score-- you just post less) but it's frankly not relevant. Point stands no matter if Tim is more to blame or less or equal.

Feh. This place is fucking Hotel California.

You can check out any time you like but you can never leave...

[Guitar Solo]
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XIII_rocks posted...

MenuWars posted...

Lopen's defence of Timjab here is lukewarm at best, you guys should relax a little and stop reading too much into things when he's speaking plainly. MNSHO

I get that he's not blindly saying Tim is great or anything but there are still problems with what he's saying.

The notion that Inviso would be as vicious as Tim if Vis had gone a different way in life I find borderline preposterous.

I've seen Inviso kick off as worse if not worse than TimJab, TimJab just does it way more often and is under way more scrutiny.

But I do agree that putting people into different positions is weird metaphor that doesn't work well because everyone's different.
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Well dang, we never did end up talking about CHIKARA/King of Trios.

Oh well, good luck to you.
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XIII_rocks posted...

Hm

My opinion of Inviso isn't so low that I think he would be Timjab if less people agreed with him, I suppose

Completely agree. I have argued with inviso about politics, survivor, etc all the time and I like inviso a lot. Maybe there's some space on the board I'm not aware of where tim doesn't act exclusively like he does where I see him but I haven't seen him post anything but vile hate for years.
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Lopen posted...

lordloki12 posted...

Why hold everyone else to that standard and not him?

Because other people claim to be better than him.

Other people haven't closed their accounts

They can leave too, if they really want

Like why are you guys even making this about Tim. Dude's gone. Who cares. If you want a token win, I can lie and say I feel Tim is worse than these other people (of which, you are closer to in the Inviso/Ltm category than not based on my observations if we're keeping score-- you just post less) but it's frankly not relevant. Point stands no matter if Tim is more to blame or less or equal.

Your standards shouldnt change based on what other people claim to be. If you want everyone to play nice then you should apply that to everyone including Timjab.
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MenuWars posted...

But I do agree that putting people into different positions is weird metaphor that doesn't work well because everyone's different.

Definitely. I'm not saying it'd be exact 1 to 1 conversion either.

I'm just saying I've seen enough hostility off the strangest things from some people on this board, and have seen Tim be perfectly reasonable to me pretty much all the time, even when I call him on BS once in a while (about wrestling, not the police), to know that they're not as wildly different people as you'd think.

But you'd think they were if you listened to them. Which is kinda what set me on this rant more than anything. Inviso making a comment about Timjab always overreacting and attacking while in the middle of tirade over two relatively harmless and justified posts, particularly by Tim standards, and it's like what.
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XIII_rocks posted...

Wigs married Alanna82.

Like, uh, 14 years ago.

Isn't that right @WiggumFan267?

Hey, I'm married in real life now! Not fake this time! I just don't post my real information online due to the fact that if I did someone here could find it.
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Picspicspics
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MenuWars posted...

XIII_rocks posted...

MenuWars posted...

Lopen's defence of Timjab here is lukewarm at best, you guys should relax a little and stop reading too much into things when he's speaking plainly. MNSHO

I get that he's not blindly saying Tim is great or anything but there are still problems with what he's saying.

The notion that Inviso would be as vicious as Tim if Vis had gone a different way in life I find borderline preposterous.

I've seen Inviso kick off as worse if not worse than TimJab, TimJab just does it way more often and is under way more scrutiny.

But I do agree that putting people into different positions is weird metaphor that doesn't work well because everyone's different.

I fully admit to having raging blow-ups in the past. I remember my fuck you guys rant during Save My Pokemon when Espeon got third place. But the thing is, I have made a concerted effort to temper myself over the years. On occasion, I will still have a smug reaction or an angry reaction in SMFFC, for example. But for the most part, rather than be a dick and celebrate a character I dislike getting eliminated, Ive made an active effort to keep my mouth shut.

Im opinionated. I know that and its going to bubble up from time to time. But I still put the effort in to restrain myself. The politics topics are a weak point, I admit, but it rubs me the wrong way when a handful of users with smug and caustic attitudes instigate (key word is instigate) conflict. Now, I probably should ignore them and not fall for obvious trolling efforts, but admittedly I enjoy the smug satisfaction of fact-checking a false argument and watching my posts get ignored. Thats dickish, sure, but its not like I go around searching out news articles (okay, once or twice TOPS) to post and insult conservatives as a collective. Im reactionary. Im too lazy to instigate.
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Alanna82 posted...

XIII_rocks posted...

Wigs married Alanna82.

Like, uh, 14 years ago.

Isn't that right @WiggumFan267?

Hey, I'm married in real life now! Not fake this time! I just don't post my real information online due to the fact that if I did someone here could find it.

Congrats!

Sorry Wigs
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I can't fault you there Inviso but I think that's perhaps why Lopen felt the need for the call out, admittedly throwing you in with LTM is harsh IMO, but I could at least see where he was coming from.
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I do think LTM is significantly worse than Inviso to be fair. I have considered blocking him long term from time to time just to spare myself annoyance, and did it a while back short term to see if it made the politics topic more readable.

Whereas while I may disagree with Inviso often and do think he's a bit more hostile than necessary pretty often, I've never gotten to a point where I considered blocking him. Inviso mostly got lumped in because it was largely his fault on this particular instance and because he was the one who made the laughable comment about Tim ALWAYS ATTACKING while he was in the process of completely overreacting to him.
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Wait. Ulti isn't the asian Kate Upton

Oh god all those pics i sent....
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Wow TimJab hasn't posted since the OP and we're on page 5. Literally obsessed.
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It was all me. I'm pretty good at making post counts explode for little reason.
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Heh, neat to see that Alanna is lurking. I wonder, did you vote for Trump?
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Did Kanz vote for Trump?
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