Board 8 > inb4 Vlado makes a topic defending pewdiepie

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jakyl25 posted...

For a random person not from the culture the slur originates from, there's some benefit of the doubt they don't understand the strength or history of the word. I certainly don't know the strength of every UK slur

This benefit of the doubt does not extend to the head of a worldwide media industry

i'm well aware of the history of the word, and i imagine people from other european countries would be as well. an european would have to be living under a rock to not know how loaded the word is.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

For a random person not from the culture the slur originates from, there's some benefit of the doubt they don't understand the strength or history of the word. I certainly don't know the strength of every UK slur

This benefit of the doubt does not extend to the head of a worldwide media industry

i'm well aware of the history of the word, and i imagine people from other european countries would be as well. an european would have to be living under a rock to not know how loaded the word is.

Wrong. Europe has no race issues. Americans bad, other countries good.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

For a random person not from the culture the slur originates from, there's some benefit of the doubt they don't understand the strength or history of the word. I certainly don't know the strength of every UK slur

This benefit of the doubt does not extend to the head of a worldwide media industry

i'm well aware of the history of the word, and i imagine people from other european countries would be as well. an european would have to be living under a rock to not know how loaded the word is.

Well he didn't know Nazis were real either so maybe he does live under one
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

uhh, why is it less bad when a swedish person uses a racial slur vs. an american?

cultural context

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden

i ctrl+F'd 'white,' 'black,' and 'africa' - none of them turned up a single result on this page. that seems fairly striking to me! i can't imagine that a swede using the word can have the racial context of an american using it.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

the idea that it wasn't intentional just makes it seem like he uses the word intentionally other times. I don't think anyone randomly accidentally drops words they otherwise never use.

that's probably fair, though he could view it simply as profanity too. i would imagine that your primary exposure to it as a gamer is from actually racist 14-year-old americans

Some people are making a big deal of it, specifically the Firewatch developers who want to get his videos playing their game taken down. That's actually what I expected Vlado would make a topic about.

that seems pretty reasonable of firewatch, and i don't have any objections to their motion to do so
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sure, I don't know that he's actually some awful racist, I just think he's probably using the word a decent amount.

It's one thing to slip up when there are other people saying it around you like in the situation you described, but here he just pulled it from the top of his mind as a thing to angrily call someone. I find it hard to believe that's an isolated incident.
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HotDogButts posted...

responsibility is solely on him, especially with the platform he has, to regulate himself. He's got everything that's coming to him, but I don't think it inherently makes him a horrible racist (even though he very may well be).

yeah, this is where i'm at
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

the idea that it wasn't intentional just makes it seem like he uses the word intentionally other times. I don't think anyone randomly accidentally drops words they otherwise never use.

I don't quite agree with this. PewDiePie probably says the word in his head. I don't really cuss at all in real life anymore, but I say "fuck" in my head and online. So sometimes in intense, frustrating situations, these words come out. There's something therapeutic in these times about getting out words that you've been suppressing.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

that's probably fair, though he could view it simply as profanity too. i would imagine that your primary exposure to it as a gamer is from actually racist 14-year-old americans

This doesn't make it any less bad, but yeah, that's exactly right. When you hear the word being used over and over again, especially within the context you currently find yourself in, it is completely reasonable that an individual, without thinking, will then use that word in the same manner without any negative intentionality behind the word. The problem of course is the not thinking part. The call out is good, as are the negative repercussions, but it doesn't automatically make someone a racist or a bad person.
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

MoogleKupo141 posted...

the idea that it wasn't intentional just makes it seem like he uses the word intentionally other times. I don't think anyone randomly accidentally drops words they otherwise never use.

I don't quite agree with this. PewDiePie probably says the word in his head. I don't really cuss at all in real life anymore, but I say "fuck" in my head and online. So sometimes in intense, frustrating situations, these words come out. There's something therapeutic in these times about getting out words that you've been suppressing.

There's a difference between suppressing strong profanities and racial slurs
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

MoogleKupo141 posted...

the idea that it wasn't intentional just makes it seem like he uses the word intentionally other times. I don't think anyone randomly accidentally drops words they otherwise never use.

I don't quite agree with this. PewDiePie probably says the word in his head. I don't really cuss at all in real life anymore, but I say "fuck" in my head and online. So sometimes in intense, frustrating situations, these words come out. There's something therapeutic in these times about getting out words that you've been suppressing.

ok, maybe? Now picturing him as a guy who's thinking "n*****" all the time
and it's not much of an improvement

but I can see how it could difficult to expunge those thoughts from your brain if at first you didn't think the word was bad. I still call things "retarded" in my brain sometimes even though I've tried to remove it from my vocabulary.
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I try really hard not to be racist or use racist words, but I live in the south and hear them more than I care to, from friends, grandparents, and etc. And I have found myself self accidentally saying it before. Usually in anger or frustration at someone and I always immediately regret it.

But yeah for him to use it, it means he's either using it himself off camera or around people that use it. Probably online.

Anyway, it's bad but whatever to me. I'm not going to grab a pitchfork and demand his head or anything. He immediately apologized for it and I find him entertaining enough.
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Peace___Frog posted...

Corrik posted...

tabiicat42 posted...

I'm bewildered but also unsurprised at the implication that there is an acceptable time for people to say the n word

I guess you never listened to a song with it in it?

I know that you love to strip language of its historical context, but it's never ok for a non-black (and especially a white) person to use the word in any manner. This coming from someone who used to sing along with those songs and use the word.

Actors, historians, teachers, of course there are acceptable situations. This simply is not even close to being one of them.
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Yeah, i backed off from my use of "never" but I maintain that it is very very rarely appropriate.
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The thought that somebody as media prevalent as PDP doesn't know the word is racist/thinks it's just a general curse word is laughable.'

But I've never understood why PDP has a defense force on these boards so I don't get anything
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I'm surprised he hadn't done this already considering his whole deal seems to be lifted from /b/-style ironic edgy shitposting. I guess he just drew the line at screaming rape and Nazi jokes.

I'm almost upset that it's apparently making news! That's almost assuredly what he wants.
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It's gonna be funny when the media realizes iDubbbz' channel has millions of followers
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Waluigi1 posted...

I find him entertaining enough.

Now YOU should apologize
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Also want to relay two stories

Summer in India pretty much all my Indian friends and coworkers referred to black guys as the N word. They didn't realize how offensive that was, claiming that they hear it all the time in rap songs and in movies. Didn't realize the origin or the context in which it is said and who can say it and why. Second, similar thing but with a professor from Turkey and her son. Came to the US and were shocked that the word has such power and is considered so offensive for similar reasons.

That doesn't mean pewdiepie is innocent, I fully believe he understands what the word means considering the position he is in and his international and American business dealings, but for those arguing that everyone knows it's a horrible word that simply isn't true.
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if you wanna keep your sanity, don't look at the CE topic

there's literal "black people are cry babies" posts
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Of course not everybody from every country is going to view the word the same/realize what it means here

But PDP clearly does, so bringing up "Now, hold on, foreign people may not know what it means!" in this case is just a silly excuse
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Glad you read my second paragraph.
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PDP is absolutely aware of what the word means, he corrected the word to mean "what an asshole", and this is NOT the first time with him.
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OliviaTremor posted...

Glad you read my second paragraph.

I wasn't referring to you specifically, but I don't really think anybody said "Everybody knows what it means," like you are accusing, either.

I was mainly referring to the guy that went "But he's Swede, so... Excused." and then posted a wikipedia article about Sweden in response to people saying he knew what it meant.
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I don't even feel like anyone is really disagreeing with anyone but we're still arguing lol
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Yeah I was being a bit hyperbolic with 'everybody' but was predominantly referring to Lasa's post about Europeans living under a rock when I mentioned the professor story. Contrary to his belief, a lot of Europeans don't care about American history and culture.
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Jakyl25 posted...

I don't even feel like anyone is really disagreeing with anyone but we're still arguing lol

Cuz ppl are spinning posts left and right to argue with the content.
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Is it story time?

Someone told my friend (Japanese) that it means "sorry" or "excuse me", and when he was in Los Angeles he bumped into a black guy and said it. He was very close to being destroyed but somehow his group managed to explain what happened and they let it go.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Waluigi1 posted...

I find him entertaining enough.

Now YOU should apologize

Nah. I'm not ashamed of finding him entertaining. I like current Pewdiepie though, not the old obnoxious stuff; the stuff that made him explode into the number one YouTuber. I like his "doesn't give a shit" attitude.
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User Hotdogbutts has a point. Why, just yesterday I was watching the Bears/Falcons game. We should have won, but I watched 2 BLACK receivers drop the ball in the endzone thrown by their WHITE quarterback! I was so mad, I let out so many racial slurs, that it would've made my mom cry, if she weren't also saying the same things! I don't know what came over me! I'm usually a nice, white male who hides his racism in political beliefs, but something just snapped! It's a good thing it's society's fault and not my own. Otherwise I'd sound really dumb defending this on a video game message board.
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tazzyboyishere posted...

User Hotdogbutts has a point. Why, just yesterday I was watching the Bears/Falcons game. We should have won, but I watched 2 BLACK receivers drop the ball in the endzone thrown by their WHITE quarterback! I was so mad, I let out so many racial slurs, that it would've made my mom cry, if she weren't also saying the same things! I don't know what came over me! I'm usually a nice, white male who hides his racism in political beliefs, but something just snapped! It's a good thing it's society's fault and not my own. Otherwise I'd sound really dumb defending this on a video game message board.

What
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Vlado posted...

Do I look like the person who would bother defending any random insult thrown on the internet? The history of the universe up until this point is probably smaller than the amount of time I'd need.

"He shouldn't have had to correct himself. That is a form of censorship. Not even genocide is worse than censorship... unless censorship protects kids from knowing what gay is, then it's the best thing ever."
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Corrik posted...

tazzyboyishere posted...

User Hotdogbutts has a point. Why, just yesterday I was watching the Bears/Falcons game. We should have won, but I watched 2 BLACK receivers drop the ball in the endzone thrown by their WHITE quarterback! I was so mad, I let out so many racial slurs, that it would've made my mom cry, if she weren't also saying the same things! I don't know what came over me! I'm usually a nice, white male who hides his racism in political beliefs, but something just snapped! It's a good thing it's society's fault and not my own. Otherwise I'd sound really dumb defending this on a video game message board.

What

He's saying it's silly to say that people just shout out random things like racial slurs if they don't normally use that language, since a prior user tried to contend that people will shout random things they never say and it's society's fault.
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"There's not a racist bone in my body, but sometimes, in a moment of adrenaline, when I revert to my most basic emotions, I yell racial slurs"
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OliviaTremor posted...

Contrary to his belief, a lot of Europeans don't care about American history and culture.

you don't have to care about american history and culture to know how loaded the n-word is.
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You can know how offensive a word is and still live in a culture where the word is used frequently and without pause.

Nordic and (especially) eastern europe is full of people who use that word, and I'm not surprised a dumbass like pdp would use it accidentally in a heated moment. He probably says it all the time offstream with his friends and doesn't really think about it.

He obviously shouldn't say that word. It is going to be a big problem for him no matter what the context is.
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Vlado posted...

Do I look like the person who would bother defending any random insult thrown on the internet?

Wow I didn't know Vlado could do sarcasm this well
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HotDogButts posted...

I've had multiple instances where I've been in a room where the word is being used, with many black people, where it's come out of my mouth without a single thought. Always felt a tinge of shame upon realizing what I'd said, but also many times been completely unaware that it even came out of my mouth. It's a deeper issue than you're making it out to be I think.

Then you're not consciously racist, only subconsciously. That's not really a deeper issue. You just need to have more empathy and respect for people you're talking to so your brain doesn't feel the need to blurt out slurs to scratch whatever mental itch you're talking about.

Hundreds of millions of people do not have any issue avoiding the n word in any context, so it really is a personal problem for you.
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"I often throw out resumes with black sounding names, but I am totally unaware of it so I'm not racist!"
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KingButz posted...

He obviously shouldn't say that word. It is going to be a big problem for him no matter what the context is.

"big problem" lol. It's not going to affect him or his income or view count in the slightest.
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foolm0r0n posted...

Hundreds of millions of people do not have any issue avoiding the n word in any context, so it really is a personal problem for you.

i have no problem avoiding saying the word as it's literally not even on my radar in day-to-day life, but i also grew up in an area where no one used the word

if i grew up where i live now and had black friends who used the word, there's almost no question that i would

Waluigi1 posted...

"big problem" lol. It's not going to effect him or his income or view count in the slightest.

literally a game company is trying to have his LPs removed so it seems like that's an exaggeration at the very least
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SeabassDebeste posted...

if i grew up where i live now and had black friends who used the word, there's almost no question that i would

Why

Is it so hard for you to control what comes out of your mouth? Or you just don't care?
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Jakyl25 posted...

You don't "accidentally" say that word unless you commonly use it.

Not really, no.

Commonly hear it, however, yeah, which given the average maturity level of the average pewdiepie viewer yeah he's probably hearing/reading it a lot. That being said, if he was giving the word the proper reaction it deserves, he wouldn't have done this.

As an example from my own life, I used to have friends that used the word "gay" and ****** (starts with an f if you're dense) as basically profanities. Now in that context I'd say neither one is something that should be used, but only ****** has that slur charge to it. Gay is just a normal word that is not offensive in any way-- I sometimes would do the pewdiepie thing and call something "gay" but I've never made the slip and dropped the f one, despite knowing people who did, because to me any time I'd hear ****** it would immediately invoke a sense of revulsion, much like the n word (do agree a ending vs r ending makes a world of difference though). It's clear pewdiepie doesn't have that reaction, so his mind isn't automatically rejecting the word as something usable and it's allowed to crawl into his subconscious lexicon.

What I'm saying is this basically boils down to the guy has a lot more exposure to the word as something stupid 14 year olds say than knowledge of it as a slur. So yeah, being Swedish does matter here, quite a bit, as he's not really, and has never really been, immersed in a culture where that's something you don't say for any sort of reason. He basically just has secondhand knowledge of it, and the culture HE'S immersed in, that of idiot 14 year olds, it's used as a generic profanity. So I don't really condemn him as some sort of closet racist for this. He does need to check himself better-- maybe read up on some black history or something to try and disassociate the word from profanity and associate it with racism, but yeah.
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Based on what I've seen, PDP knew it was something he shouldn't have said since he corrected himself and had to try to downplay using it. I'm sure he's not as attuned to the implications of the word as your average American, but he seems to clearly understand it's a very offensive word.
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foolm0r0n posted...

SeabassDebeste posted...

if i grew up where i live now and had black friends who used the word, there's almost no question that i would

Why

Is it so hard for you to control what comes out of your mouth? Or you just don't care?

I would assume it's harder to avoid using a word the more prevalent it is in your environment? I cuss more if I spend time around people who cuss, at least.
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Lopen posted...

It's clear pewdiepie doesn't have that reaction, so his mind isn't automatically rejecting the word as something usable and it's allowed to crawl into his subconscious lexicon.

Which is why he immediately regretted saying it and switched to "fucking asshole" right afterward which is also a strongly revolution slur, and later his excuse was that he forgets he's on stream sometimes so extra offensive stuff sometimes slips out.

All of that because the n word is just like "asshole" in his mind? This is the conclusion that you guys think is reasonable?

Like what kind of massive mental gymnastics does it take to follow this line of thinking. It deserves 20 gold medals.
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Maybe I'm just more conscious of what I say for various reasons, but I almost never let a word slip that I don't want to say. Like, I don't think you're going to let a word slip out that you're not okay with on some level, even subconsciously.
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Tom Bombadil posted...

I would assume it's harder to avoid using a word the more prevalent it is in your environment? I cuss more if I spend time around people who cuss, at least.

You cuss more against your own will?
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foolm0r0n posted...

All of that because the n word is just like "asshole" in his mind? This is the conclusion that you guys think is reasonable?

yes, honestly, i think that is probably his thought process

foolm0r0n posted...

SeabassDebeste posted...

if i grew up where i live now and had black friends who used the word, there's almost no question that i would

Why

Is it so hard for you to control what comes out of your mouth? Or you just don't care?

because i'd consider it absolutely normal, since that's what the black kids in my area call each other all the time
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Jakyl25 posted...

When African-Americans use it endearingly between each other it takes power away from the word and gives it to them.

I know that this is basically the reason they do it.... I just personally never got why the word should be used at all. People say they're "taking the word back" but.... why take it back at all? It was a word born out of fear and hatred, what value would it have to anyone relevant? If it was up to me, "er" and "ga" would be on the same level. A shameful word used exclusively by people who will forever be on the wrong side of history.


As for pewdiepie, what he said was absolutely <redacted>, but I question why people care so much. Is this such a shock someone on his level would say something like that? Accidentally or otherwise. Has he done something to make you believe that he has high standards, and that this moment was such a shock to said standards?


Then again, I don't look at this videos. So maybe that's why I don't care. It's easy to not care when you mentally list someone as "irrelevant".
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Lopen posted...

So yeah, being Swedish does matter here, quite a bit, as he's not really, and has never really been, immersed in a culture where that's something you don't say for any sort of reason. He basically just has secondhand knowledge of it, and the culture HE'S immersed in, that of idiot 14 year olds, it's used as a generic profanity.

He immediately knew he shouldn't have said it, switched to an actual generic insult ("Asshole"), and tried to downplay it.

He 100% knows not to say it and your theory is flawed.

If he just viewed it as generic profanity, he wouldn't have felt the need to "correct" himself or try to downplay it.
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