Board 8 > Game of Thrones Season 7 - Says here 'Ragger' had 'Anal'... (SPOILERS)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Sapphiron was a bitch.
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It is a bit forced and rushed. Ideally you want them being surrounded as the ending to the episode or something.

But it was still great and entertaining fun.


Re Benjen, I thought he did that because he didn't want to go back with Jon. Either he wanted to die, or he knew Jon would return to East-watch and Benjen wouldn't be able to go for the same reason he couldn't accompany Bran before. And it'd take too long to explain that.

But that does get a bit into headcanon territory, so...yeah possibly could have been handled better
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Guys, the Benjen thing is simple.

Jon was badly injured and the horse wouldn't have been able to carry the weight of both of them. It barely made it back with just Jon.
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Or that
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Well I'm a fair-weather shite-lover so I'm gonna mosey over to WatchersOnTheWall's comments/forums for this one I think since the overall reception there is far stronger lol

I'll think of some more to say later on when I'm through gabbing eagerly over something I enjoyed

Only thing I didn't like was the amount of scenes spent with Jon's team surrounded; there's no great way to handle that, because if it was rushed then March of the Gendry is even more nuts, but it honestly dragged a bit for some of those scenes
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The plan to capture a Wigh sounds like something out of TWD
Only that in TWD they are often found alone, less inteligent, slower, doesn't have a scary leader, and just weaker in general.
Speaking of intelligence though, it kinda bothered me to see them dragging the chains
I always assumed the Wighs are supposed ti be dumb?
And I also assumed them to be unable to touch water...as we saw here and in Hardhome
But they were able to dive and put the chains around the dragon head...?
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A bit late to this party, but...

first off we will not discuss sansa/arya/littlefinger. we just won't. it's the worst and we're gonna leave it at that.

second off beric my boi. just jumped so many places on the character ranking you don't even know. mvp mvp mvp

third off it's a shame we didn't get more scenes of beric and the hound on the road

fourth there is so much silly stuff in this episode but whatever this is a silly show

fifth The Second True King of Westeros has ****ing arrived. what a goddamn baller. Team Night King lets do this guys
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Nanis23 posted...

The plan to capture a Wigh sounds like something out of TWD
Only that in TWD they are often found alone, less inteligent, slower, doesn't have a scary leader, and just weaker in general.
Speaking of intelligence though, it kinda bothered me to see them dragging the chains
I always assumed the Wighs are supposed ti be dumb?
And I also assumed them to be unable to touch water...as we saw here and in Hardhome
But they were able to dive and put the chains around the dragon head...?

Yeah, the plan was dumb.

As for the Walker intelligence, I assume they will do exactly what their maker tells them to do. Mindless warrior, chain puller, dead dragon lassoer.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Great episode overall, with a few problems. I'd give it a 9/10.

How the fuck
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So Hound taking the wight to King's Landing? I guess we know what that means....


CLEGANEBOWL FUCKING CONFIRMED GET HYPE!
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I haven't been reading any posts tonight but now that I can speak about it since watching the leak on Wednesday


This is actually the first episode this season I had legit problems with. It's purely a spectacle episode that you have to suspend your disbelief SUUUUUUUUUUPER hard for. It's fun when all is said and done but man, the hoops you have to go through. Sure, there's always a degree of suspension of disbelief that is required for the show but it really shows for this episode.
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this show is so dumb and the writing is so bad and this episode was completely embarrassing and the reason things happen is because they want them to happen, thats it

That was such a stupid goddamn fucking episode.

The wights can survive in ice water, thus making the entire concept of that fight fucking stupid as all hell. I'd go on a huge rant about how dumb that was but fuck it we have an ice dragon.

They wouldn't have lasted 60 seconds on that island, and Jon Snow not dying when he fell in ice water was some DUMB shit. You can last maybe 15 minutes in 28 degree water before dying, but you're out of it long before then. That lake was clearly colder than 28 degrees.

The Benjen thing is so unbearably dumb. No explanation of why he's in purgatory. It's just "hey I'm half dead guys". Dumb.

I'm on Team Night King because fuck this. The Browns just gave the guy a 90 million dollar deal so why not.

Bane_Of_Despair posted...

I haven't been reading any posts tonight but now that I can speak about it since watching the leak on Wednesday


This is actually the first episode this season I had legit problems with. It's purely a spectacle episode that you have to suspend your disbelief SUUUUUUUUUUPER hard for. It's fun when all is said and done but man, the hoops you have to go through. Sure, there's always a degree of suspension of disbelief that is required for the show but it really shows for this episode.

We're way past that point. They have gone way, way too far with plot armor.

Thank you cyclo!
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To be serious for a second, I think if I were to try and evaluate this episode from a narrative/story standpoint I might actually think this was the worst episode. It certainly feels like a "jumped the shark" type one at least. To the point where I almost feel the damage dealt is so severe the books couldn't even try to rehabilitate the series's dignity if they were to ever come out.

But thankfully I made my peace that the show was destroying a story I loved long ago! So I just sat back and laughed. Except for the Arya/Sansa scenes. Those I just cringed for. And because some part of me still tries to believe, tried to come up with ways it might actually not be as bad as it seemed by real-time theorizing. Only to be disappointed at every turn. But other than that laughed and enjoyed the mindless fun.

Beric on point though. bless him.

Hound pretty good too, but his rock throwing was a bit silly but I mean I can forgive him that because lmao "We will meet again, Clegane." "****ing hope not."
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I can maybe buy Jon having some Cold Resistance as a result of being technically undead. Haven't there been a line or two saying his heart literally doesn't beat (or about Beric who presumably is the same)

i dunno maybe that means the cardiovascular system runs off lord of light magic?

i was more offended that somehow the entire army of the dead had vacated by the time he surfaced
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Fire and ice
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My favorite scene was Arya. I shouted "holy shit taking it to 11!" Really thought she was gonna stab her. And Tormund nearly dying I was like nooooo! Omg they didn't kill him I can't believe it. 2 best scenes for me in a sea of awful.
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xp1337 posted...

I can maybe buy Jon having some Cold Resistance as a result of being technically undead. Haven't there been a line or two saying his heart literally doesn't beat (or about Beric who presumably is the same)

i dunno maybe that means the cardiovascular system runs off lord of light magic?

i was more offended that somehow the entire army of the dead had vacated by the time he surfaced

Sure. Magic. Fine.

That Benjen nonsense was so idiotic.

blah blah blah storytelling jumping the shark blah blah



CLEGANEBOWL.

FUCKING CONFIRMED.


GET HYPE
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Yeah, I can't even try to make an excuse for Benjen. Really feels like the whole Jon being left behind thing was meant to further ship Jon/Daenerys. Which is just totally unnecessary.

my personal headcanon is that what happened there was jon wanted to statpad instead of taking the evac route and that's the only reason why they lost a dragon

seriously he kept moving further away from drogon. i thought he was thinking of making a charge at the night king on the off chance he could win the war right there but then he turned and ran when he readied the second spear so apparently not
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I think he was considering it and then the spear happened. then again, Jon already said that wasn't an option because of the hostage (?!?)

night king really showed his power tonight. dude went up a level, not just with the spear but showing he's immune to fire.
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Something I just realized...

Bran shows up at Winterfell and Littlefinger gives him the dagger. Bran gives the dagger to Arya because it's useless to him. And now Arya has in turn handed the dagger over to Sansa after a convoluted scene that served no logical purpose whatsoever.

I've been speculating that Littlefinger is going to die this season (so, next episode), but who has Littlefinger hurt the most? Who would give the greatest amount of catharsis to the audience if s/he were to kill him? Sansa. And now Sansa has a dagger that only came into her possession in a roundabout way via Littlefinger's hubris. AND the dagger was the result of a poorly-written and bizarre scene with Arya.
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Sansa killing Littlefinger would make me so mad that I would consider quitting the show IF NOT FOR CLEGANEBOWL being FUCKING CONFIRMED (get hype)
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transcience posted...

I think he was considering it and then the spear happened. then again, Jon already said that wasn't an option because of the hostage (?!?)

night king really showed his power tonight. dude went up a level, not just with the spear but showing he's immune to fire.

did he?
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I have no idea wtf is happening with Sansa/Arya/Littlefinger.

Sansa killing Littlefinger makes the most narrative sense and always has (ever since she became his apprentice back in... Season 4 was it?)

But Arya has kicked reason to the curb. I'm pretty sure she intentionally let Sansa find the faces, I just don't know why. Hell, I still don't know why Littlefinger is even trying to create a rift between them still!

I mean, I could see any outcome happening at this point. Pretty sure Sansa will end up killing him but I have no idea how we arrive there anymore. Pretty sure this episode killed my hail mary "Sansa and Arya were plotting together to entrap Littlefinger" hope. Arya could still be running a gambit on her own, but it's almost impossible for me to see one that justifies what we've seen so far.

god the winterfell plot is so dumb the more i think about it the worse it gets
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JetJaguar posted...

did he?

He seems to emit a cold aura that can smother flames. He walks through some lingering flames left by the dragon attack on his way to throw the first spear and they go out as he approaches.

I don't think it'd work if he tried to tank dragon breath directly, but that's just my gut.
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Other than Arya being a creepy as hell psychopath

The biggest glaring issue I had was the MAJOR Dragon ex Machina


Like ffs between Gendry getting to the wall, a raven getting to Dragonstone and Dany getting back with Dragons, that should have been at least a week
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xp1337 posted...

JetJaguar posted...

did he?

He seems to emit a cold aura that can smother flames. He walks through some lingering flames left by the dragon attack on his way to throw the first spear and they go out as he approaches.

I don't think it'd work if he tried to tank dragon breath directly, but that's just my gut.

i gotta rewatch that for sure
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i think the complaints about the writing are largely over blown but I'll grant people the fact that gendry running back was pretty dumb

it would make way more sense for dany to be worried about jon and go after him herself from basically every standpoint. you get rid of the time issue, you convey how much dany cares about jon, and tyrion's objections towards her leaving make more sense (as he doesn't know that jon and co actually are in absolute dire straits)
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

The leaks have been out for about 6 months, if it makes you feel any better. Have you been hearing it for 6 months?

A couple of months at least. I wasn't paying attention before that. Before this, everyone just wanted to know who the 3 dragon riders were.

I thought it was obvious once we saw Qyburn's ballista, but I figured that was how the dragon would die, and then it'd get zombified next season when the Army of the Dead got to King's Landing. Also I thought it'd be Drogon because he's the only dragon that's ever actually on TV usually.

But man that episode was the fucking dumbest shit I ever saw. I don't see how the Army of the Dead storyline isn't over. Three dragons against the whole fucking army and all the Walkers, that's it. I don't care how many dumbass Lannisters they win over and how much dragonglass they have, if all three dragons together can't get the job done there's no way they can win now that Viserion switched sides.

And speaking of winning over the Lannisters, how the dick did they get the wight past the Wall anyway? I thought nothing dead could pass, which if you recall is why Uncle Benjen didn't go with Bran and Meera at the end of last season. Now you may have forgotten that bit, but as if to remind you HERE COMES UNCLE DUMBASS HIMSELF I mean jesus christ people.
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JetJaguar posted...

it would make way more sense for dany to be worried about jon and go after him herself from basically every standpoint. you get rid of the time issue, you convey how much dany cares about jon, and tyrion's objections towards her leaving make more sense (as he doesn't know that jon and co actually are in absolute dire straits)

This would make even less sense.

DoubleTangicide posted...

Other than Arya being a creepy as hell psychopath

The biggest glaring issue I had was the MAJOR Dragon ex Machina


Like ffs between Gendry getting to the wall, a raven getting to Dragonstone and Dany getting back with Dragons, that should have been at least a week

People can just teleport this season because the writers are too lazy to think about the timing of things

And yeah what the fuck, Arya is terrible now
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JetJaguar posted...

i think the complaints about the writing are largely over blown but I'll grant people the fact that gendry running back was pretty dumb

it would make way more sense for dany to be worried about jon and go after him herself from basically every standpoint. you get rid of the time issue, you convey how much dany cares about jon, and tyrion's objections towards her leaving make more sense (as he doesn't know that jon and co actually are in absolute dire straits)

This makes so much more sense. The only reason not to do it is to add clips to Jon's highlight reel of heroics and for it to be used as more of a catalyst for Dany seeing him in a romantic way (though it's all been foreshadowed to hell so it's still unnecessary). The way it played out was ridiculous. So ridiculous in fact that I wasn't ever worried Jon would actually die, despite the fact that he was pulled beneath a frozen lake with no weapon or way to fight two dead guys off of him.
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how so?

literally all you have to do is have dany say she wants to go because it's too dangerous without her and the dragons and she wants to see the dead for herself. jon, tyrion, jorah etc advise her against it. she ends up going anyway and saving them and actually being right for once.
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Wights passing through the wall isn't a continuity break. Remember they faked being dead to attack Lord Commander Mormont in Season 1.
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Pokewars posted...

So Hound taking the wight to King's Landing? I guess we know what that means....


CLEGANEBOWL FUCKING CONFIRMED GET HYPE!

Trailer spoiler
There are only 2 scenes in the trailers we didn't see, one is someone falling near a boat and the other is someone that looks like the Hound in Dragon Pit
I can't think of a better place to have a CLEGANEBOWL than the Dragon Pit
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xp1337 posted...

Wights passing through the wall isn't a continuity break. Remember they faked being dead to attack Lord Commander Mormont in Season 1.

I suspect it has to do with them being brought through, rather than passing through on their own.
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JonThePenguin posted...

xp1337 posted...

Wights passing through the wall isn't a continuity break. Remember they faked being dead to attack Lord Commander Mormont in Season 1.

I suspect it has to do with them being brought through, rather than passing through on their own.

Maybe. Though I'm not sure that satisfactorily explains why Benjen couldn't pass before using Sam to let him in.

If I had to guess perhaps it has something to do with being undead and maintaining your own will? Or something like that. Benjen is clearly intelligenct and possessed of his own will and the White Walkers seem to be the same. Meanwhile the wights are well... mindless zombies. Perhaps it's a difference in the magic that animates them.
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xp1337 posted...

Wights passing through the wall isn't a continuity break. Remember they faked being dead to attack Lord Commander Mormont in Season 1.

No, they hadn't risen yet, they were regular corpses when they were brought through. Even if we accepted your argument, what are we to make of Benjen "The Dead Can't Pass" Stark in S6 then? Was he just the first to be so put off by Woke Emo Bran that he made up some bullshit to get away from him?

And speaking of the wight from Season 1, if this whole "bring a wight to King's Landing to convince everyone to take the threat seriously" shit works it's kind of insulting. Because if you recall the Night's Watch cut off its hand which was still moving and put it in a jar to bring to King's Landing to convince King Robert to send help, but Ned dicked around so long before granting the guy an audience that the hand rotted away to bones and stopped moving by they time he got a chance to show anybody. That's why the Night's Watch guy that was supposed to take Arya, Gendry, Hot Pie, and Jaqen to the North was even in King's Landing in the first place. So basically Ned blew off the Night's Watch and 7 seasons of television happened as a result. Fucking ridiculous, I'm glad that Night's Watch guy is dead so he doesn't have to see this.
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Benjen could just be fucking wrong. Jon passed through didn't he?
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Also we blew up a building to end last season.

Will be disappointed if we dont blow up the wall to end this season tbh.

And the hound clearly had CLEGANEBOWL plot armor.

Also don't give a shit about these timing issues. They are a necessary evil to get the show done without boring us with excess episodes.

Glad we can finally talk about this episode for that matter.

i bought tormund dying tbh

and i was sad
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Horrible, horrible episode with the worst writing of the series by far.

Pretty fun though. I especially love how idiotic the Arya/Sansa scene was considering how Arya served Tywin for like an entire season but is pissed at Sansa.
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i fucking loved this episode

there's a lot of immersion-breaking shit and the plan is preposterous, but that was already decided in episode 5

the fanservice this episode was incredible

and people complaining about arya/sansa seem to be missing that this is who arya is
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Is there any evidence to suggest that rising can be time-delayed? I mean, there's no evidence to suggest it can't either, but it'd be one heck of a loophole for the Wall to miss the presence of zombie magic and allow it through even if the wight isn't active yet.

And yeah, KL ignored the Night Watch's warning. Although, I don't believe it was Yoren who had the job of warning them. He really was just collecting recruits. IIRC, it was Thorne who got the job of warning KL and it was Tyrion who delayed him because he remembered Thorne being nasty from when he visited the Wall at the very beginning. And when he finally saw him (too late) he just mocked him for it. Unless this was a book/show change I'm forgetting, though I'm pretty sure what I described is the show version at least. But yes, either way KL blew it.

The "show Cersei a wight" plan is dumb for a ton of reasons but KL screwing up before isn't one of them. Cersei being someone not worth negotiating with is one. Cersei not really needing evidence given she employs a zombie as a bodyguard (granted perhaps not the same, and I don't know if anyone who hangs with Jon/Daenerys knows about Zombie Gregor) is another. That they somehow have the time to do this is yet another. The odds of it actually working. Etc.

it was an awful plan
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SeabassDebeste posted...

and people complaining about arya/sansa seem to be missing that this is who arya is

Arya is just acting so dumb. That she holds a serious grudge against Sansa for slights real or imagined is believable. I'll even buy she's gone crazy enough to be seriously debating killing her (albeit this seems to fly a bit in the face of their reunion scene.)

but getting so easily played by littlefinger is dumb.

And again, even if she really is running some weird gambit here I have a hard time believing it justifies a lot of her actions towards Sansa if that's the case.
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xp1337 posted...

JonThePenguin posted...

xp1337 posted...

Wights passing through the wall isn't a continuity break. Remember they faked being dead to attack Lord Commander Mormont in Season 1.

I suspect it has to do with them being brought through, rather than passing through on their own.

Maybe. Though I'm not sure that satisfactorily explains why Benjen couldn't pass before using Sam to let him in.

If I had to guess perhaps it has something to do with being undead and maintaining your own will? Or something like that. Benjen is clearly intelligenct and possessed of his own will and the White Walkers seem to be the same. Meanwhile the wights are well... mindless zombies. Perhaps it's a difference in the magic that animates them.

Do we even have a clear answer to wtf benjen is?

I feel like he is a mystery the show is destined to not answer.

Also, not like the books will ever get finished, but i feel like Viserion is actually going to get to the night king in a drastically different way in the books. Maybe even changing hands twice.

xp1337 posted...

And yeah, KL ignored the Night Watch's warning. Although, I don't believe it was Yoren who had the job of warning them. He really was just collecting recruits. IIRC, it was Thorne who got the job of warning KL and it was Tyrion who delayed him because he remembered Thorne being nasty from when he visited the Wall at the very beginning. And when he finally saw him (too late) he just mocked him for it. Unless this was a book/show change I'm forgetting, though I'm pretty sure what I described is the show version at least. But yes, either way KL blew it.

Oh you know what you might be right, it was a long time ago but the point is that it happened.

Another thing I thought of: if the Night King had these magic spears he could throw for basically unlimited distance, why didn't he just throw them at Jon? No way he couldn't have reached if he could reach Viserion flying overhead. Were those his special anti-dragon spears? Why would he even HAVE a dragon-killing weapon since I don't know how he would have heard that dragons existed again. Frankly I'm not sure when he would have heard that dragons existed in the first place considering the Long Night was way before Aegon's Landing. This was definitely the first time he'd ever SEEN a dragon, that seems indisputable.
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