Board 8 > Got my first ticket (help TimJab).

(+) Yeah! (+)

@JetJaguar

First time getting pulled over at all, let alone getting a ticket.

I got caught turning right at the light right near my condo complex. It was a red and there was no one around in any direction, so I rolled through without completely stopping (I guess similarly to rolling through a stop sign?). He asked me where I was headed - the airport to pick up my parents - then he asked me where they were coming from. I very politely answered all his questions and did not dispute a word. I was patient when he wrote me up. The citation is $195 total. I was as cordial as could be, but he seemed a little on edge, and I think this was because of my fuck up

When he hit his lights, I didn't immediately stop (I was already in the far right lane). I very slowly drove about 100 feet while signaling to the right, then pulled into my complex's public parking lot and immediately stopped. I just wanted to get out of the main street and assumed this was a common practice. I asked him afterward if I made a mistake by doing that, since it was my first time ever getting pulled over. He said he prefers it when people stop immediately, but he could tell that I wasn't trying anything.

Anyway, I'd appreciate some advice from TimJab or anyone that has experience with this:

1. Do I have any chance in hell of beating this in court? Up until tonight, I have a perfect driving record. No idea if that means anything.
2. Any general tips to beat this ticket/keep it from getting on my record?

Getting dinged for $195 is a bummer, but I'm not mad. If anything, I'm happy that I've been driving for 13 years and only now got dinged for my first dinky ticket. Most people aren't that lucky. I'm way more concerned about this blowing up my insurance, and most concerned that it might say "ran a red light" on my driving record even though it wasn't nearly that dangerous.
---

1. No.

2. No.

You said you did something illegal and got caught. You plead guilty and pay the fine. If you plead not guilty, you are hoping the cop doesn't show up. If he does, you lose and you owe court costs also.

Your insurance will only go up if they catch the violation. Don't report it obviously. The violation will say whatever the ticket says. It will give you points based on whatever the violation gives you in your state.
---

So you've always just paid your ticket and moved on? You never saw much sense in disputing any?
---

CaptainOfCrush posted...

So you've always just paid your ticket and moved on? You never saw much sense in disputing any?

There is only 2 reasons to ever dispute them. You are looking for a reduction in points by arguing you were going slightly lower in speed than caught. Doesn't apply. Or because you are hoping to luck out by a calibration err in a radar gun or by the cop not showing up. Does happen but not often enough to bank on it.

What is going to happen is... you can only really argue you did not run the light. Which you did. And he will say you did, with or without dash proof.

Thus, why even contest it?
---

Depending on your state laws.... you could argue you made a right on red and did not know it was not a right on red light. Thus, you believe you should have gotten a failure to follow traffic sign violation (in pa we have this) which is 0 points and wouldn't affect your license. Again it varies by your state and you need to see how your states violations and points system works.
---

Also one other thing you asked, when a cop puts on his lights you should pull over to the first safe place you can on the side of the road or to a parking lot that is within eye sight. You want to pull over somewhere that is safe for the officer to get out and be at your window.
---

Go to court and accuse the officer of pulling you over for DWB. Make the courtroom a circus.
---

haha
---

Corrik posted...

you could argue you made a right on red and did not know it was not a right on red light.

It actually is a right on red light. I was cited for not making a complete stop and "rolling through" the right turn.
---

On my way to work right now but I'll read this and give any advice I can in a bit.
---

Alright, just a few questions before I start doling out advice:

What state do you live in?
Is right on red legal in said state? Were you summonsed for making the right or for not stopping before doing so?
Did you make a spontaneous utterance admitting guilt?

Also, generally the cop hits his lights when he determines you're at a safe spot to pull over, so you should pull over immediately even if you don't think its the best spot to do so.
---

A lot of states have a "deferral" program for minor tickets like this. If you have an absolutely clean record you can have one ticket deferred every x years. You pay a fee (it's usually about as much as the ticket) but as long as you don't get another ticket for a year the case will be dropped and the ticket will never go on your record. You have to show up in court and request this from the judge though. And make sure you look up how it works in your state.
---

JetJaguar posted...

What state do you live in?

Nevada

JetJaguar posted...

Is right on red legal in said state? Were you summonsed for making the right or for not stopping before doing so?

It's legal. I was stopped for not stopping before doing so. Not "yielding to traffic" were his words, though no cars were coming and I didn't see any pedestrians on the road.

JetJaguar posted...

Did you make a spontaneous utterance admitting guilt?

The first thing he asked me was "hey you ran that red light when you made that right turn. Any reason for why you did that?" I can't remember exactly what I responded with but I'm pretty sure I did apologize and said something like "I don't know, it looked safe to me. I don't have any excuses." I did sign a copy of the citation, but he clearly told me that signing it was not an admission of guilt - it just illustrated my intention to either pay the fine or show up to court to dispute it. Thanks.

redrocket_pub posted...

A lot of states have a "deferral" program for minor tickets like this. If you have an absolutely clean record you can have one ticket deferred every x years. You pay a fee (it's usually about as much as the ticket) but as long as you don't get another ticket for a year the case will be dropped and the ticket will never go on your record. You have to show up in court and request this from the judge though. And make sure you look up how it works in your state.

I'll definitely research this. Thanks.
---

If deferral's a thing in your state, that's really the only way to go. Not stopping at the red is a simple yes or no thing, so there's no point in disputing it. You generally try to dispute things like speeding tickets if you think you can knock it down a level, but there's not really anything to "knock down" here.
---

In my state, you can write your side to the court or show up and dispute it. I don't expect them to reverse this but they automatically knock the amount down on first time offenders. Check your state for something similar.
---

Jesus just pay the ticket. You went through a red light without fully stopping.
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Jesus just pay the ticket. You went through a red light without fully stopping.

Agree. It's $200 and no points. Just pay the damn thing.

I got a ticket via camera for running a red light a few years back and I could've waited 60 days to see if they actually issued the fine as the first thing they send is just a notice saying pay this now or pay a higher amount after 60 days. Apparently where I live there's a decently high chance they don't send you the fine, especially if it's borderline like mine was, and then it drops off. But if they do send it, it's on your record. I just paid the damn thing as it wasn't worth the higher fine or risk of going on my record even if I had a chance of fighting it or just flat out ignoring it

I'm totally ignorant to this concept of points. If paying now means it's off my record and won't affect my insurance, I'd do that. The money's the last thing I'm really concerned about.
---

I doubt your insurance increases from a violation like that, but I think it depends on the state
---

CaptainOfCrush posted...

I'm totally ignorant to this concept of points. If paying now means it's off my record and won't affect my insurance, I'd do that. The money's the last thing I'm really concerned about.

If you get too many points, you can lose your license. They eventually slide off of your license. In general you'd have to have a really bad year with traffic violations to run into that, so don't stress about it.
---

Several NV demerit point penalties issued in response to different types of offenses are outlined in the following list:

Failure to dim your vehicle's headlights: 2 points.
Driving too slowly: 2 driving points.
Failure to yield right-of-way: 4 points.
Operating a vehicle in a careless manner: 6 careless driving points.
Driving recklessly: 8 reckless driving points in NV.

You should get 4 points. There is really no way to lessen it in your state. It is either you go and win and its off or you go and lose and pay it plus the higher cost for court costs.

or just pay it now. You have no real case to stand on to get it taken off completely.
---

Reckless Driving8
Careless Driving6
Speeding 1 - 10 mph over posted limit1
Failure to give information or render aid at the scene of an accident6
11 - 20 mph over posted limit2
Following too closely4
21 - 30 mph over posted limit3
Failure to yield right-of-way4
31 - 40 mph over posted limit4
Passing a school bus when signals are flashing4
41 mph or more over posted limit5
Hand-held cellphone use or texting
(2nd and subsequent offenses)4Prima Facie speed violation or driving too fast for the conditions2
Disobeying a traffic signal or stop sign4
See Violation Codes for a complete list
of offenses and points.
Impeding traffic, driving too slowly2
Failure to dim headlights2
---

It doesn't seem like slowly rolling through a right turn should count the same number of points as speeding 31-40 MPH over the limit -_-
---

No, but I imagine they don't prefer to make it a judgment call as to what level of "not stopping" a person is doing.
---

CaptainOfCrush posted...

I'm totally ignorant to this concept of points. If paying now means it's off my record and won't affect my insurance, I'd do that. The money's the last thing I'm really concerned about.

It is definitely not guaranteed that just paying it won't affect your insurance. Definitely look into deferrals, mitigation hearings, etc. before you do that. There is zero downside there.
---

Fight it in court tbh, it's your right.
---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Fight it in court tbh, it's your right.

While this is true that it's his right, it's not always the smartest thing to do. Deferral is probably the best way to go in this particular circumstance, for reasons that have already been outlined. Not to mention potential legal fees for fighting it in court.
---

you might be able to take a driver's course and have it removed
---

Emeraldegg posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Fight it in court tbh, it's your right.

While this is true that it's his right, it's not always the smartest thing to do. Deferral is probably the best way to go in this particular circumstance, for reasons that have already been outlined. Not to mention potential legal fees for fighting it in court.

This. He has literally no case in court because it's not something that can really be argued. He either did it or he didn't, and if the cop says he did it, he did it. There's nothing like "Well, the gun may not be calibrated" like there is in speeding or anything. It's just a clear cut... He did it.
---

Did Nevada change their laws on this? I specifically remember a cop telling me 10 years ago that this exact thing is not a violation.
---

Mayonesa posted...

Did Nevada change their laws on this? I specifically remember a cop telling me 10 years ago that this exact thing is not a violation.

Running a red light is not a ticket in Nevada? I am not sure that is correct lol
---

Forceful_Dragon posted...

It doesn't seem like slowly rolling through a right turn should count the same number of points as speeding 31-40 MPH over the limit -_-

Just think of an interstate that only has a 60 mph speed limit (some do), and that's only going 91-100. It's pretty common. If you don't actually drive that speed on the interstate already, try it sometime and see how often you still get passed.
---

TomNook posted...

Forceful_Dragon posted...

It doesn't seem like slowly rolling through a right turn should count the same number of points as speeding 31-40 MPH over the limit -_-

Just think of an interstate that only has a 60 mph speed limit (some do), and that's only going 91-100. It's pretty common. If you don't actually drive that speed on the interstate already, try it sometime and see how often you still get passed.

That's....not something you really want to chance though. If you are one of the poor schmucks who gets pulled over, >25 mph over the limit is reckless driving. Not worth it.
---

Bumpo
---

Bump
---

Did anyone suggest taking a defensive driving class? Especially for your first ticket, you can take a class instead of paying a fine and I think it doesn't go on your record
---

WhoopsyDaisy posted...

Did anyone suggest taking a defensive driving class? Especially for your first ticket, you can take a class instead of paying a fine and I think it doesn't go on your record

Everything suggested is state specific.
---

This shit could be tied up in litigation for years
---

Beyond a small fee - usually like $25 - there's not much of a reason to downside to fighting it. Sometimes the judge won't throw it out but will knock down the fee. I had a ticket in Connecticut knocked down from 255 to 75 once.

Given that you have a clean record, fight it or see if there's some deferral process. Definitely don't just pay it and move on, unless your insurance has some sort of first-time offender forgiveness program. Some do.
---

Man I've been pulled over like four times and haven't gotten a ticket. Hella lucky.
---

Wait, right on red isn't the same in every state? I don't often leave IL but I just assumed everywhere was "you can turn right if it's clear and you stop first"

although I did get my only ever ticket for not coming to a complete stop when I thought I did (I was just trying to inch forward to see around the corner, man)
---

The issue is he didn't stop.
---

wikipedia says right on red (after stopping) is allowed in every state, except not in New York City

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_on_red
---

Menji posted...

The issue is he didn't stop.

---

I know

I was answering tom's question
---

Tom Bombadil posted...

although I did get my only ever ticket for not coming to a complete stop when I thought I did (I was just trying to inch forward to see around the corner, man)

The rule on that is you're still supposed to come to a complete stop at/before the line. If you can't see from there, you can then adjust forward (without blocking traffic of course). That applies to a stop sign as well, though the need shouldn't be as common there.
---