Poll of the Day > earthworm jim creator insults transgender writer on twitter

(+) Yeah! (+)

PyroBlade1985 posted...

IronBornCorps posted...

O PLEASE explain sexism to me...I really need a masculine perspective on sexism.

Alright then, how about you bitchsplain it to me?

I would love to have a civilized discussion, but your being really emotional. Have you eaten?

Alright Pyro, I just have a couple questions I want you to ask yourself.

1. Growing up, were you able to enjoy movies, games, shows ect. Where the main character was someone you could relate to because they were the same gender (probably race too)? Think about how many you found relatable as compared to those you didn't.

2. Also growing up, were you taught to stand up for yourself and not allow anything to get in your way? Or were you taught to look pretty and how to maintain the household, because that's what attracts a partner that will take care of you.

Did you enjoy the most recent Ghost Busters? Why not? Was it because the only real prominent male was really just eye candy?

PyroBlade1985 posted...

Jen0125 posted...

why does it have to be "bitch"splain if you're talking about a female perspective instead of "woman"splain?

"Alright then, how about you womansplain it to me?" There. Happy?

i mean they don't say "dicksplain" or anything for "mansplain." "Bitchsplain" seems kind of inherently sexist if you're only using it for women.
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I'll answer for him.

IronBornCorps posted...

1. Growing up, were you able to enjoy movies, games, shows ect. Where the main character was someone you could relate to because they were the same gender (probably race too)? Think about how many you found relatable as compared to those you didn't.

I was exclusively raised on Nicholas Sparks so I was unable to relate to the main character.

IronBornCorps posted...

2. Also growing up, were you taught to stand up for yourself and not allow anything to get in your way? Or were you taught to look pretty and how to maintain the household, because that's what attracts a partner that will take care of you.

I was taught to be independent. Like everyone in my family was taught. Nobody ever taught me to be an asshole.

IronBornCorps posted...

Did you enjoy the most recent Ghost Busters? Why not? Was it because the only real prominent male was really just eye candy?

No. Because it was terrible and unfunny and I'm tired of remakes.
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Ok, you were taught independence. Do you have any feminine people in your family?

IronBornCorps posted...

Ok, you were taught independence. Do you have any feminine people in your family?

Yeah. Two older sisters and my mother. All raised feminine but all work for a living even with kids. I'm also the product of ultra conservative parents in one of the most conservative states in the country.
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I'm really just trying to gain a perspective on your experience, but was your dad around?

In my own experience I can tell you I am treated vastly different.

What was seen as ambition and leadership, is now viewed as nagging. Overall, I am taken less seriously, especially if I display even the slightest emotion. Before if I was angry and yelled, people would stop and listen, taking why I was angry seriously. Now I'm just seen as emotional. I did things at my job the same way for years, then all of the sudden I am under a microscope of everything I do, and I am much more likely to be called out on a tiny mistake. My male counterparts doing similar things are "fine" though. I do the same amount of work, but get less credit.

I too was raised to be independent, I just know a lot of women do not receive that benefit of believing they can be.

Good

I support transrights, but hey if you can dish it out, better be abke to take it.

Ooh I wanna do the survey too.

IronBornCorps posted...

1. Growing up, were you able to enjoy movies, games, shows ect. Where the main character was someone you could relate to because they were the same gender (probably race too)? Think about how many you found relatable as compared to those you didn't.

Because of the same gender/race? Never. That would be weird.
I remember one of my favorite characters as a child being Kari from Digimon. That one episode where she had a fever but she did her best and didn't tell anyone and worked so hard despite being so burdened... I know a little cliche when you're not 8 any more, but it was heartwarming! Plus it was cool how Gatomon just rocked her champion form all day.

I also quite liked DBZ Gohan, was amused by Brain from Pinky and the Brain, and had a slightly shameful enjoyment of Sailor Jupiter (don't tell my brother I watched that crap show!). So uh... I guess by virtue of what was on I ended up mostly interested in Japanese characters, with it being a tossup between male or female.

All stories are about humans. All of them. Even the ones about lizards or elves or whatever are really about humans. If someone can't relate to a fellow human because of sex/race (even species!), then they're the oddball.

IronBornCorps posted...

2. Also growing up, were you taught to stand up for yourself and not allow anything to get in your way? Or were you taught to look pretty and how to maintain the household, because that's what attracts a partner that will take care of you.

The former. The latter is actually shameful, and nobody should be focusing their efforts on looking pretty enough to get someone else to do their work. Nobody in my family was raised to mooch as far as I'm aware.


Didn't see Ghostbusters. Not much of a moviegoer.
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Just to clarify, those experiences I have gone through are commonly experienced by cis women as well. It's really not just a trans thing. There are other issues I go through from being trans, but those aren't it.

Priest: Hi.
Me: Hi crazy man.

It's my opinion, PC Nazis. It's not rude at all, I'm just being honest. Outrage culture.
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Seriously, stop fucking saying "cis." It's probably more offensive than anything a "cis" person has said to a "non-cis" person.
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Cis is not an offensive term. That is all I have to say about that.

IronBornCorps posted...

Cis is not an offensive term. That is all I have to say about that.

I just said it is, so therefore it is, according to you people and your "logic."
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The_Beta_Male posted...

IronBornCorps posted...

Cis is not an offensive term. That is all I have to say about that.

I just said it is, so therefore it is, according to you people and your "logic."

Okay, I'll bite.

What would you prefer to be called, given that cis just means you identify as (or at least take no particular grievance with) the gender you were assigned at birth?
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i pooped a bit ago and i was manspreading the entire time. i could sense my neighbor squirming in her sheets.
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Kungfu Kenobi posted...

The_Beta_Male posted...

IronBornCorps posted...

Cis is not an offensive term. That is all I have to say about that.

I just said it is, so therefore it is, according to you people and your "logic."

Okay, I'll bite.

What would you prefer to be called, given that cis just means you identify as (or at least take no particular grievance with) the gender you were assigned at birth?

I think the main objection to "cis" is that it tends to be used in a perjorative manner, much like "heteronormative" or "conservaderp" whenever certain highly vocal minorities want to shout down anything they disagree with to maintain their position in the Hardship Olympics.
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WhiskeyDisk posted...

I think the main objection to "cis" is that it tends to be used in a perjorative manner

That's the apparent objection, but the question stands.

If the cis world wants to jump on the euphemism treadmill, then someone explain what the PC term is. Beta Male says he wants to use progressive "logic" here.

WhiskeyDisk posted...

much like "heteronormative" or "conservaderp" whenever certain highly vocal minorities want to shout down anything they disagree with to maintain their position in the Hardship Olympics.

It's not the word that's used to shut down discussion, it's the implication (or explicit statement) that people wearing these labels have no place in the discussion. That's a more complicated issue, but suffice it to say (for now at least) these are groups that benefit considerably from our cultural stances on Freedom of Expression and a group claiming to be under the thumb of a society powerful enough to oppress them might not want to rock that boat too hard.
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Kungfu Kenobi posted...

Okay, I'll bite.

What would you prefer to be called, given that cis just means you identify as (or at least take no particular grievance with) the gender you were assigned at birth?

I don't prefer to be called any stupid labels; that's what's offensive and hypocritical about this BS.

"Cis" was invented by, supposedly, a "non-cis" person; ergo, it's anything but benevolent. What you call "Cis" I call "normal."

Also, man, these mods are going ham. I had to dust off this old relic just to show how defiant I am.
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Shenti_Reborn posted...

Kungfu Kenobi posted...

Okay, I'll bite.

What would you prefer to be called, given that cis just means you identify as (or at least take no particular grievance with) the gender you were assigned at birth?

I don't prefer to be called any stupid labels; that's what's offensive and hypocritical about this BS.

"Cis" was invented by, supposedly, a "non-cis" person; ergo, it's anything but benevolent. What you call "Cis" I call "normal."

You want to be called normal, that's fine. Non-cis people also want to be called normal. Normal in regards to what? Normal means a lot of things. It possesses some enormous value judgments not just in implication but in its literal definition. So unless you're saying you get to monopolize that just because of your gender expression, you have to go back and answer the question as the alternative is to constantly qualify normal by saying you're referring only to the most common gender expressions, and, well, we have a word for that and it's 'cis'.

And even if I grant that non-cis people might have some considerable mental (or even more broadly biological) condition that's beyond 'normal' it's entirely possible, probable even, for not-cis people to be normal in every other regard to their behavior, as well as their mental and physical conditions. So again, the use of the word normal in this discussion comes with considerable qualifiers.


PS Also, if you're objecting on a more or less political basis to accepting any label given to you by someone you disagree with ideologically, understand that even a label of your own choosing will become a pejorative in time.
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Kungfu Kenobi posted...

Non-cis people also want to be called normal. Normal in regards to what?

in regards to everyone else they exist among on this planet. transgender/gender fluid people make up less than 1% of the population. they're literally not normal, given the definition, ok?
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ZiggiStardust posted...

they're literally not normal, given the definition, ok?

<_<

Kungfu Kenobi posted...

Normal means a lot of things... the alternative is to constantly qualify normal by saying you're referring only to the most common gender expressions, and, well, we have a word for that and it's 'cis'.

>_>
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that's nice, enjoy that word, ok? i'm just going to keep using 'normal'.
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Kana posted...

concern-troll

So showing concern for someone is trolling now?
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ZiggiStardust posted...

that's nice, enjoy that word, ok? i'm just going to keep using 'normal'.

same
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NightMareBunny posted...

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

I don't see the insult.

called a woman a man

how would you like it if someone called you a woman?

I don't think a celebrity calling a dude (biologically speaking, not talking about trans) a little girly girl, it wouldn't blow up like this like it's the end of the world.
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Zareth posted...

Kana posted...

concern-troll

So showing concern for someone is trolling now?

Yeah, that is exactly what I said.
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I wish there was a God. And I wish he hated all this thin-skinned SJW garbage enough to do something about it.
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Kungfu Kenobi posted...

Normal means a lot of things... the alternative is to constantly qualify normal by saying you're referring only to the most common gender expressions, and, well, we have a word for that and it's 'cis'.

Not to be a dick, but you have a word for that, much like how the LGBT community made up stuff like xer. From my perspective trans and not aren't equally valid states like male and female, to me being your gender is the only way of handling gender, anything else isn't true.

Btw, it's really hard to phrase my opinion without risking being moderated, no disagreeing sentiment feels incapable of offending.
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TheCyborgNinja posted...

I wish there was a God. And I wish he hated all this thin-skinned SJW garbage enough to do something about it.

same

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Btw, it's really hard to phrase my opinion without risking being moderated, no disagreeing sentiment feels incapable of offending.

Don't let them force their agenda with scare tactics; I got modded like 7 times in this topic alone lol but my views haven't changed a bit.
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Shenti_Reborn posted...

Don't let them force their agenda with scare tactics; I got modded like 7 times in this topic alone lol but my views haven't changed a bit.

I'm still saying it, but you know, when it's modded, they don't see it and can just ignore it.
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it seems like an unnecessarily mean spirited jab at someone when the original article she wrote wasn't particularly mean. It was complimentary in tone most of the time, and went into how a lot of the mechanics and structure of the game were frustrating and don't hold up as well over time. To most folks, yeah, what he said doesn't seem that bad, but to a transgender person, comments like that are pretty hurtful. They are already fighting an uphill battle for acceptance and feeling comfortable in their own skin without little jabs like that. The problem is, people act like it's somehow the victims fault for being hurt "Well, maybe you shouldn't be so sensitive!" when they can, you know, just not be a dick for no reason. Calling a trans-woman "him" or a man, when you know doing so is hurtful to them is just being a dick to be a dick.

DeathMagnetic80 posted...

what he said doesn't seem that bad, but to a transgender person, comments like that are pretty hurtful.

It shouldn't be any more offensive to them than anybody else, questioning a person's gender is the same act regardless of the recipient.

Unless of course, you're implying they have something wrong in the head that makes them hypersensitive to gender concerns, which is very insulting as they strongly assert they do not suffer with mental illness.
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I find people who don't like being called cis, are also people not used to being belittled or demeaned for something related to their identity they can not control.

*cough* cis hetero caucasian men *cough* *cough*

dainkinkaide posted...

Zeus posted...

dainkinkaide posted...

Zeus posted...

You're really doubling down on this stupidity. It's also ironic since if he called a mannish-looking cis woman a man it wouldn't have attracted any attention, whereas he called a MtF who still looks more M than F a man and there's pearl-clutching galore.

You think that might have anything at all to do with the fact that gender identity is way more important to trans people than cis people?

And you don't think that cis people don't take it way too seriously as well? Pretending that it's somehow unique to trans doesn't make it unique to trans.

When did I say it was unique to trans people, Zeus? I implied that, because gender identity is more important to trans people than cis people, those who would react to someone being misgendered, trans- and cis- alike, would react more strongly and vocally to someone misgendering a trans person than they would to someone misgendering a cis person.

You say that you didn't say that, but turn around and basically say that. You're basically trivializing non-trans pain and positioning trans pain as being of greater significance than cis pain.

TheCyborgNinja posted...

there's lots of people you're not really allowed to insult tho, dude. at least not without consequences

Basically this. People of European or Asian heritage (from India to Japan) are the only ones it's generally socially acceptable to make fun of, it seems. Coincidentally, these areas are where all the power has been held for 2000+ years, on and off, so maybe there's some connection there... As far as religion goes, Islam and Judaism seem to be the only two that are "off limits" for mockery.

Uh, what? Are you ignoring that Eastern-Europeans were the world's whipping boy? And that the slave trade was most active around the middle east and that the word slave is itself derived from slav? And were you not taught about the Ottoman Empire? And are you ignorant as to the amount of interaction that Europe actually had with much of Africa until just the past few hundred years? And are you trivializing the genocide of ethnic-white groups by other ethnic-white groups?

Not that even if the above didn't exist you'd have an excuse for your stupid claim. Also, as for religion, Judaism is *frequently* mocked. It's only Islam that seems protected and, when your followers are willing to gun down critics, it's no wonder why comics like Sarah Silverman admit to being too scared to mock it.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

DeathMagnetic80 posted...

what he said doesn't seem that bad, but to a transgender person, comments like that are pretty hurtful.

It shouldn't be any more offensive to them than anybody else, questioning a person's gender is the same act regardless of the recipient.

Unless of course, you're implying they have something wrong in the head that makes them hypersensitive to gender concerns, which is very insulting as they strongly assert they do not suffer with mental illness.

I have transgender friends, purposely calling them the gender you know they don't identify as is a big "fuck you, I'm going to force my reality on you, your feelings be damned" Yes, some people are more sensitive to things. I have a physical disability, if someone I don't know calls me a cripple or something, it's going to poss me off.

DeathMagnetic80 posted...

I have transgender friends, purposely calling them the gender you know they don't identify as is a big "fuck you, I'm going to force my reality on you, your feelings be damned" Yes, some people are more sensitive to things. I have a physical disability, if someone I don't know calls me a cripple or something, it's going to poss me off.

"Force my reality"? Are you implying they live in a different reality to the rest of us? It's a difference in opinion.

If someone insisted I was European rather than English I identify as, it would roll my eyes but it's easy to see why they'd believe that, it makes sense. If someone insists my eyes are green when they're blue with hazel center then, while it's not true at all, it can look like that so it's understandable where they're coming from and I'd just be irritated by their stubbornness.

With Transgenderism they are coming from the back foot, they're challenging millennia of understanding of gender, disagreeing with them is completely reasonable and the only thing transgenders have a place to be upset with is their group's ability to reason their stance over the long standing stance that gender is not fluid.

Until transgenderism is a majority opinion, the onus is on them to convince the rest, not the rest to conform.
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DeathMagnetic80 posted...

I have transgender friends, purposely calling them the gender you know they don't identify as is a big "fuck you, I'm going to force my reality on you, your feelings be damned" Yes, some people are more sensitive to things. I have a physical disability, if someone I don't know calls me a cripple or something, it's going to poss me off.

But them telling me I have to call them what they prefer to be called is forcing their reality on me. How can you not see that?
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There is not "forcing reality" on anyone. Trans people have existed as long as the rest of humanity. Education of this has been non existent until recently. It is much easier to erase identities outside of the accepted majority, then it is to educate the majority. Especially when the majority has no interest in learning.

Also, earlier in the topic someone mentioned "not catering to 1%" or something of that nature. By that logic we should also ignore
- Physically disabled people
- Red haired people
- Australians
- The incredibly wealthy
- All politicians

Even just 1% of the population is millions of people.

IronBornCorps posted...

There is not "forcing reality" on anyone

The problem here is that we're discussing a matter on which reasonable people can disagree. No one really argues the existence of the disabled or Australians because it's self evident.

It's not actually clear that a person's unilateral decision to use a certain pronoun is what should be deferred to. And before you go and project words on to that statement I didn't actually use (such as adding an implied "trans" before person's), I mean that statement in the broadest possible sense.
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IronBornCorps posted...

There is not "forcing reality" on anyone. Trans people have existed as long as the rest of humanity.

[citation needed]

You're literally forcing false history on us.

IronBornCorps posted...

Education of this has been non existent until recently.

Research hasn't been done until recently and the results have been subject to intense scrutiny so are not appropriate for teaching. Education is teaching facts, not opinions.

IronBornCorps posted...

It is much easier to erase identities outside of the accepted majority, then it is to educate the majority.

Nice propoganda speech. It is always hard to introduce new identities to established society, particularly when the identity's validity is in contention.

IronBornCorps posted...

Especially when the majority has no interest in learning.

I'm happy to learn, but the information provided has to be fairly strong, I'm not interested in changing what I've reliably known for a new concept that doesn't appear all to reliable.

IronBornCorps posted...

Also, earlier in the topic someone mentioned "not catering to 1%" or something of that nature. By that logic we should also ignore
- Physically disabled people
- Red haired people
- Australians
- The incredibly wealthy
- All politicians

Even just 1% of the population is millions of people.

- Physicaly disabled people get help for their issues, they don't (usually) insist they're differently abled and so not disabled.

- Redheads don't have special needs and take ragging on without going to the UN.

- Same as above.

- The incredibly wealthy hold 99% of the people's wealth so have more pull (and more hate)

- Politicians are representative of all the people, they are practically the 100% so require all our attention.
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Shenti_Reborn posted...

DeathMagnetic80 posted...

I have transgender friends, purposely calling them the gender you know they don't identify as is a big "fuck you, I'm going to force my reality on you, your feelings be damned" Yes, some people are more sensitive to things. I have a physical disability, if someone I don't know calls me a cripple or something, it's going to poss me off.

But them telling me I have to call them what they prefer to be called is forcing their reality on me. How can you not see that?

Does it REALLY effect your life in any way to call someone what they want to be called? For fuck sake, we all agreed call a guy Puff Daddy, then P.Diddy. Then Diddy. If Rick wants to suddenly be Rebecca, it's not harming you to to just go with it, even if you feel otherwise. It's about not being an asshole to people for no reason.

DeathMagnetic80 posted...

Does it REALLY effect your life in any way to call someone what they want to be called? For fuck sake, we all agreed call a guy Puff Daddy, then P.Diddy. Then Diddy. If Rick wants to suddenly be Rebecca, it's not harming you to to just go with it, even if you feel otherwise. It's about not being an asshole to people for no reason. So, no, it's not "forcing their reality on you" When someone is going through a lot, and finally comes out and says "Hey, I was born male, but I feel like I'm a woman" and someone else is just like "Lol no, that's not a real thing", you can see how it'd be frustrating. Most of us can't really relate, because our gender identity aligns with our biological l sex. We have no idea what THEIR reality is like, aside from when they tell you how they feel. A friend of mine tried to kill himself in high school over this, and finally came out as transgender a couple years ago. She is MUCH happier and healthier feeling like she isn't living a lie anymore.

That's all well and good but they'd still be forcing their reality and views upon me and that's wrong, and one of your supporters LITERALLY just said that we're doing the same thing when we don't refer to them as their preferred label.

You can't just call me an a** h*** because you disagree with me, that's not how this works.
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Shenti_Reborn posted...

DeathMagnetic80 posted...

Does it REALLY effect your life in any way to call someone what they want to be called? For fuck sake, we all agreed call a guy Puff Daddy, then P.Diddy. Then Diddy. If Rick wants to suddenly be Rebecca, it's not harming you to to just go with it, even if you feel otherwise. It's about not being an asshole to people for no reason. So, no, it's not "forcing their reality on you" When someone is going through a lot, and finally comes out and says "Hey, I was born male, but I feel like I'm a woman" and someone else is just like "Lol no, that's not a real thing", you can see how it'd be frustrating. Most of us can't really relate, because our gender identity aligns with our biological l sex. We have no idea what THEIR reality is like, aside from when they tell you how they feel. A friend of mine tried to kill himself in high school over this, and finally came out as transgender a couple years ago. She is MUCH happier and healthier feeling like she isn't living a lie anymore.

That's all well and good but they'd still be forcing their reality and views upon me and that's wrong, and one of your supporters LITERALLY just said that we're doing the same thing when we don't refer to them as their preferred label.

You can't just call me an a** h*** because you disagree with me, that's not how this works.

No, I'm calling you an asshole, if you know it will hurt or upset someone to purposely call them something they don't want to be called, and do it anyway. Because that's what assholes do: intentionally do shit knowing it will hurt the feelings of someone else when there's no real reason to do that. It's one thing to accidentally mislabel someone, and when corrected say "Oh, sorry, my mistake" out of respect for their feelings. It's a whole other thing to double down on it. So, don't be an asshole, I won't call you an asshole. It's not rocket science.

DeathMagnetic80 posted...

[post]

And I'm saying the exact opposite--if they know it goes against my very nature and being to do so yet insist I do it anyway, why shouldn't I also throw ad hominems their way and just blatantly insult them, too? Since that's what you guys are doing to me. I mean, that just seems fair, right?

yet I still don't do that, because that's not how you win arguments.
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