Board 8 > Today is the twentieth anniversary of Final Fantasty Tactics

(+) Yeah! (+)

Post your favorite combos

I liked to get peoples' brave up super high and give them the samurai blocking ability.
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Black Magic (which was never used, just using job for the MA)
Math Skill (Duh)
Blade Grasp (At 97 brave)
Magic Attack UP
Teleport
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I'd rather talk about why I love the game. The character work is a mixed bag, but when it works, it really works -- Ramza, Delita, Wiegraf Zalbaag, Agrias, all very solid. The setting is good, but it's the Westerosi cutthroat tone that makes it truly shine. Both localizations are flawed, yet both localizations are enjoyable in their own right. The battle system lends itself to the epic feel of the premise, and it's rich with customization. The body count is terrific for a scenario of this type, and Wiegraf's political leanings were one of my main sources of political discourse as a child alongside Star Trek, Babylon 5, and the works of Isaac Asimov and Robert Heinlein.
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Don't blame us. Blame yourself or God.

top tier fucking game
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I never played the remake, but I heard the translation was worse than the original.
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I was always fond of ninjas with every move space increase you could give them. Nothing like wiping out half the enemy team before they get a turn.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0A0KnuEBPc
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Anagram posted...

I never played the remake, but I heard the translation was worse than the original.

More competant but zero charm. All the famous lines are ruined, poisoned by Square's FFXII fueled stiffy they had for shitty fake English accents for a couple years there.
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Anagram posted...

I never played the remake, but I heard the translation was worse than the original.

I prefer the 2007 localization, but as I said, they both have their draws.
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It's different (the original translation is amateur with bad grammar everywhere; the retranslation is incredibly overwrought), and I can see preferring either one, but the fact that there's a very good argument for the second translation being worse is just embarrassing.

FFT's pretty much my favourite game. The characters/setting are pretty good (especially Delita), but it's the tight SRPG gameplay and amazing job system that really make the game stand out for me. Very few other games are as good at FFT at making every battle feel fast-paced (you hardly ever waste time walking across battlefields) and give you so many viable options. Of course there are ways the game could be better (the trap mid-dungeon saves, the translation, the fact that you can't take back movement, the fact that PCs disappear from the plot as soon as they join) but it's still overall just so much fun, and one of the most replayable games ever.

For favourite combos, well, Magic Attack Up, elemental strengthening, Wizard with Summon just carves the game in half. Replacing Summon with Teleport-backed Draw Out for the aftergame is also good fun.
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Please enjoy this world record speedrun of FFT, done in 4 hours 25 minutes without the use of Math Skill:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/111050481

Alternatively, if all you care about is raw speed then here's the record for Any%, done in a trim 3 hours 58 minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AfRUpCQ1gw
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Heroic Bigpun posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0A0KnuEBPc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOKa5e7RcSA
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Teleport Draw Out Black Mage has always been my favorite. So stylin. (Honorable mention to Thief with Equip Spear, Speed Save, and Jump, which is my favorite Ramza build)

And yeah I love FFT but it is mostly for the gameplay, which NeoElfboy described as well as I could hope to. The plot starts great, then kinda descends too far into cliche Squeenix DEMONZ crap. The heroes of the story are fairly bland, and the villains while cool, are usually dead before too long, with the less interesting ones being the ones that stay around longer. It's fine from a storytelling perspective, but the gameplay is king.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Heroic Bigpun posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0A0KnuEBPc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOKa5e7RcSA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGs3ppf8cLk
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Actually hang on I change my answer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ddKvvuTFt4
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GOAT SRPG

Top 15 game of all time
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I remember playing it as a kid thinking it would be like Final Fantasy VII (but loving it regardless). In that sense, it probably opened the door for me to power through the rest of Golden Age Square's catalog.
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FFT is my favorite game and is unlikely to ever be topped.

Trying to steal all the sweet equipment/learn all the spells was fun
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NeoElfboy posted...

It's different (the original translation is amateur with bad grammar everywhere; the retranslation is incredibly overwrought), and I can see preferring either one, but the fact that there's a very good argument for the second translation being worse is just embarrassing.

Pretty much. The retranslation is indefensible because while the original one is 'amateur', it still reads like people talking to each other once you take out the bad grammar. "Don't blame us, blame yourself or god" is believable as something someone could say. "Forgive me. 'Tis your birth and faith that wrong you, not I." is a thing only a character from a novel would say...and this means it's a bad novel, because the whole point of writing is creating characters that seem real. If you ever got some time to kill, here's a fun game. Open up this script:

https://www.gamefaqs.com/psp/937312-final-fantasy-tactics-the-war-of-the-lions/faqs/50913

And also this one:

http://www.rpgamer.com/games/other/psx/vagrant/info/script/index.html

Read through random chunks of the first and then do the same for the second. Notice how even though the characters in Vagrant Story use antiquated grammar they still speak like people and you could imagine meeting someone who talked like that? That's the difference between a masterpiece translation and a terrible one. Translators should never get fancy unless they are confident they can produce something with some semblance of literary merit. The retranslators for FFT clearly lacked any of that, whereas Alexander O. Smith had tons of it.
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I am actually currently playing Tactics 1.3 if anyone is familiar with rom hacks. So because I'm over classed my Bard has the ability to fly and during the Gafgarion fight the bard flew over the wall to assist Ramza fighting Gafgarion.
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I played through it once and the most broken thing was Monk Ramza with dual-wield just punching bosses really hard and killing them, if not with the first punch then with the second. Actually, there's a lot of competition for most broken thing, like Ninja Agrias with a flail for Holy Sword and a piece of equipment that made her auto-rez every turn. And Orlandu, full stop.
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First couple of times I played through the game I didn't even realize there was a switch for the gate in that file and always brute forced it with Ramza or had people who could target Gaff through the gate when lured.

When I finally realized the switch existed I was like 'Shit, well that makes that fight so much easier'

Also, isn't it fucking weird how recruitable characters disappear from the story entirely once you recruit them because it's possible for them to have suffered perma-death? I guess that's why Fire Emblem develops side characters through optional support conversations, but in FFT you have all these substantial named people, I think everyone but Ramza, actually, who are important in this world but you never hear them so much as mentioned after they join your party.
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One of several reasons I prefer War of the Lions: it gives a sliver more content to a couple of playable characters in Chapter 4.
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paperwarior posted...

Also, isn't it fucking weird how recruitable characters disappear from the story entirely once you recruit them because it's possible for them to have suffered perma-death? I guess that's why Fire Emblem develops side characters through optional support conversations, but in FFT you have all these substantial named people, I think everyone but Ramza, actually, who are important in this world but you never hear them so much as mentioned after they join your party.

Agrias and Meliadoul have lines in battles after they join. Plus Mustadio is essential to the chapter 4 sidequests. The others do lose pretty much all plot relevance, however.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Pretty much. The retranslation is indefensible because while the original one is 'amateur', it still reads like people talking to each other once you take out the bad grammar. "Don't blame us, blame yourself or god" is believable as something someone could say. "Forgive me. 'Tis your birth and faith that wrong you, not I." is a thing only a character from a novel would say...and this means it's a bad novel, because the whole point of writing is creating characters that seem real. If you ever got some time to kill, here's a fun game. Open up this script:

What bothers me most is, the original tone in Japanese isn't stuffy or archaic or anything. I would probably translate that line as "please try to blame only yourself or God, not me", fwiw, though I can't argue with the quotability of the PSX translation.
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Jeff Zero posted...

Anagram posted...

I never played the remake, but I heard the translation was worse than the original.

I prefer the 2007 localization, but as I said, they both have their draws.

Brave Barbaneth Beoulve
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A-as I said, they both have their flaws
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'Tis your birth or faith that wrong you, not I.
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blame easter tbqh imo
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also I'm the weirdo who plays FFT for the characters and the story more than the gameplay

The gameplay and the job system don't appeal to me that much. Not to say they aren't fun, but they're not the main draw for me.


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One of my favourite games of all time

Also the new translation is way better, it's preferable to have a stylistic choice that might not click with everyone than to have your translation be something that could have been improved by asking a random 12 year old to fix the grammar for you. The original translation is memorable and funny...because it sucks. I love all the dumb memes it provided too but let's be real, FFT was released late enough into the age of video games for a translation of that quality to be unacceptably bad.
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Panthera posted...

The original translation is memorable and funny...because it sucks. I love all the dumb memes it provided too

sounds like solid reasons why it's better than the WotL translation to me
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Also my favourite FFT "combo" will always be any strategy built around turning the enemy into chickens.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Panthera posted...

The original translation is memorable and funny...because it sucks. I love all the dumb memes it provided too

sounds like solid reasons why it's better than the WotL translation to me

In the same way that Big Rigs is a good game, sure
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I mean not really because FFT is still very much playable regardless of translation but one version is "trying too hard" and the other is "not trying hard enough"

and I think I've learned that "not trying hard enough" is preferable to "trying too hard" with translations
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If Big Rigs had FFT's gameplay and plot it actually would be a good game though

Problem is it has gameplay that's even worse behind the humorously bad translations, and no plot
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TC said he gets his brave up to 95. How? I have never actually done that.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

TC said he gets his brave up to 95. How? I have never actually done that.

Some of Ramza's Squire skills that boost brave give a smaller permanent boost to it.

Brave and Faith boosts/decreases in battle stick with your party, one point per 4 changed. So if you up a guy's Brave by 4 he gets +1 permanently after the battle.

So basically eventually you use brave increasing skills in fights enough, ending at 100 brave several times until you hit a permanent 96 from a battle, get the +4 after that battle, end at 97, and can go no higher.
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LeonhartFour posted...

I mean not really because FFT is still very much playable regardless of translation but one version is "trying too hard" and the other is "not trying hard enough"

and I think I've learned that "not trying hard enough" is preferable to "trying too hard" with translations

idk I have a general rule with translations that if the grammar is consistently broken to the point that a 13 year old could have fixed it, it's automatically worse than a translation that uses the language properly regardless of how weird its choices may be. I personally prefer peculiar but competent work over shocking ineptitude.
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I dunno. I feel like FFT doesn't achieve the notoriety and beloved status it has among a lot of people if the WotL translation is the only one we got.

Like, the FFVIIR translation will technically be "superior" to the original FFVII translation, but both it and FFT's translations have transcended "so bad" and hit "so bad it's good" status. There's a world of difference between the two.
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no 'this guy are sick' no purchase
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Honestly the translation gets hyperbolic thrashing from Lions fans.

There are some memorable blunders like Dycedarg's Elder Brother, but it's not "consistently broken to the point that a 13 year old could have fixed it" and it's completely comprehensible on the first read outside of some rambling from Ramza about the Lucavi at one point. This isn't Zero Wing here.

Give me dialogue that sounds like real conversation with an occasional (usually very minor) gaffe here or there over dialogue that sounds as Kanzaris accurately put it, something that would only exist in written form.
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The original translation is hardly free of lines that don't feel at all like real dialogue
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it isn't completely free of them though

that's the difference
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Well, if you sum up the lines that don't feel like real dialogue in the original, add to them double the number of lines that are poorly translated, you're probably at about 10% of the lines in WotL that don't sound like real dialogue or so.
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