Board 8 > Persona

(+) Yeah! (+)

the games that matter anyway :>

P5 is not much better than P4, but the gameplay improvements are undeniable.
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5 does a lot of things better than 4, but 4's main cast destroys 5's and that's pretty key for this kind of game.
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Aren't you tired?

Let's not do that today.
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Janus5k posted...

5 does a lot of things better than 4, but 4's main cast destroys 5's and that's pretty key for this kind of game.

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Janus5k posted...

5 does a lot of things better than 4, but 4's main cast destroys 5's and that's pretty key for this kind of game.

This.

But 5 gameplay improvements alone put it close.

I'd say 453. But I liked 5 a lot and I'll replay it again.
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Gameplay

5>4>3

Characters

4>3>5

Story

3>4>5
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This is how every conversation in P5 goes

Ryuji: For real? Fucking adults!
Morgana: stfu Ryuji you're dumb
Ryuji: stfu you useless cat
Ann: OMG that guy is evil!
Makoto: Wow he's so evil!
Haru: Guys I have nothing to contribute to this conversation
Yusuke: heh
Futaba: stfu Inari you pervert
Yusuke: No I'm not your are
Ann: Guys this person has a palace!
Makoto: He's EVIL
Haru: Guys I have nothing to contribute to this conversation
Yusuke: heh
Futaba: stfu Inari you pervert
Yusuke: No I'm not your are
Ryuji: fucking useless cat why didn't you tell us he's evil and has a palace?
Morgana: stfu Ryuji I want to hurry up and become human so I can bone Ann-dono
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5 utterly crushes 4 in pretty much everything other than the main cast's chemistry. Confidants are also pretty far and beyond the best S. Links in the series as well. You can even argue that a game with P5's themes isn't supposed to have all the slice of life moments that P4 has, but there are a couple of moments they do try to have them outside of that and it doesn't work as well. People say the Hawaii trip and other events suck, but they're pretty overtly using them to build the theme - the characters even blatantly say how disappointing the events are. They actually were trying to do SoL stuff with the beach trip though and that was bad, so no excuses there. If P5 Crimson or some equivalent does happen and adds more events to alleviate this problem, I could easily see myself ranking it above P4 in every area.

Even with all that said, 5 is pretty easily the best IMO. The quality of the actual gameplay and how everything with confidants so beautifully weaves into the core gameplay is basically the new golden standard for this type of game.
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I'll go further and say there is nothing in Persona 4 that 5 doesn't do better, in my opinion.
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GANON1025 posted...

I'll go further and say there is nothing in Persona 4 that 5 doesn't do better, in my opinion.

king's game
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P5 does literally everything better than P4 except main cast, but main cast is about 60% of the weight here.
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LapisLazuli posted...

P5 does literally everything better than P4 except main cast, but main cast is about 60% of the weight here.

Definitely don't agree with this weighing. People seem to think having a godly main cast is a Persona staple just because one game happened to have a stellar cast. Having a cast like that is great obviously but it's not where I put most of the value of the game. If having a strong, interactive cast is where a majority of your value comes from, Tales is a better series than Persona IMO.
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Palaces are a great idea and I'm really glad they did away with mostly random dungeons (except when they didn't - Mementos is awful), but they still felt like a giant slog to go through (especially in one day). I'm honestly not sure how much of a perk this is.

To me, the NPC confidants are the main advantage P5 has over 4.
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The writer just doesn't know how write dialogue. Or how to use the characters beyond their dungeon. Every character that joins you has nothing to contribute to the overall story once you finish their dungeon. The game would be 100% more enjoyable if it didn't feel the need to hit you over the head with pointless text messaging and pointless comments by characters that have no relation to whatever scene in the story. If there's a speck of dust on your table in your room, you can bet every person will have something to say about it.

Then there's the whole "wow this person is so evil look what's going on in their palace!" line repeated for every dungeon.
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Xiahou Shake posted...

If having a strong, interactive cast is where a majority of your value comes from, Tales is a better series than Persona IMO.

I mean, that's valid, but I think you're downplaying how good 4's was in light of people shit talking 5's. I may not like 5's as much as 4's but they're both still better than most RPG's. As far as Tales goes, the only overall party in that series I'd take over P5's is Berseria. The rest have their own losers and Abyss' strength is in how shitty it's party can get at times.

I don't give a fuck about most of them P3 losers.
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P3 on top is the only thing that matters. Probably 5 > 4 but idk they're pretty much equal.
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Over 50% of the votes have P3 as the worst one which is what's most important.
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4 > 5 > 3

5's downtime events are boring, and you spend WAY too many days investigating your targets. But it's still fantastic. Then again 3 is still fantastic, but it does pretty much everything worse than 4 and 5. Even if you include portable.
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Janus5k posted...

5 does a lot of things better than 4, but 4's main cast destroys 5's and that's pretty key for this kind of game.

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Janus5k posted...

5 does a lot of things better than 4, but 4's main cast destroys 5's and that's pretty key for this kind of game.

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Pretty much agree on the everything better other than cast comments, but I'll take it a step further and say it has a worse cast than 3 which is saying something since that has at least 2 garbage characters. P5 would've been incredible if only the cast had interactions/chemistry worth a damn. You form a better bond with your crafting desk than them >_>

LapisLazuli posted...

but main cast is about 60% of the weight here

It's really not. By far most of the time is slinks (including main cast slinks) and main story (i.e. leading support and villains).

Also, P4's cast wasn't even THAT much better than P5 and P3. P3's cast ended up pretty good because even if they individually weren't that great, they were all deeply involved in the story in interesting ways, which definitely cannot be said of P4 or P5 beyond the character's intro arc.
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I don't know how you got some kind of.....time association out of that at all.
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I feel like I played a different game, where P5's main cast are all great and there's not a single bad person in there. And P5 has Akechi, The Man Who Rivals Shinjiro as best persona character
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Don't strain yourself trying to figure it out I guess!
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Like, the entire point of saying something is "weighted" is that it's importance or effect is not 1 to 1 with what it's being compared to, meaning you got that totally backwards. The whole point was that I think the quality of P4's cast trumps the combination of P5's gameplay, story, and presentation.
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GANON1025 posted...

and there's not a single bad person in there.

this is sort of cheating, considering the worst character is a cat
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Janus5k posted...

GANON1025 posted...

and there's not a single bad person in there.

this is sort of cheating, considering the worst character is a cat

Imagine having an opinion this bad. Mona > all.
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Mona is not the worst.

He's the second worst.
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3 is a terrible game.

So it goes last.

Between the 3 games I think I could easily put Akechi in bottom 5 characters. Everything about his entire character was super predictable and boring and he had no good scenes on top of it. Pretty sad when Strega's Jin feels like less of a nobody than Akechi

GANON1025 posted...

I feel like I played a different game, where P5's main cast are all great and there's not a single bad person in there. And P5 has Akechi, The Man Who Rivals Shinjiro as best persona character

This guy knows what he's talking about and everyone should listen to him tbqh
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5 could have easily been the best of the bunch, but it did a few key annoying things to keep it from surpassing 4. Namely:

1. "You should go to bed early for that whole lot of nothing you're doing tomorrow."
2. Lack of playable cast chemistry
3. Palace 5's section of the game being total filler.
4. Way too many text messages.
5. Those stupid scenes with a city backdrop with text bubbles to cycle through.
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Also this p3 hate hurts my soul

3 > 5 > 4
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I definitely feel like people have this weird nostalgia for P4 that isn't there. The chemistry isn't really THAT much better than 5's is. It is better but not by some crazy amount
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That's what I'm saying! 4 was good but cmoooon
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teddie sucks and was easily the worst mascot, yukiko and her snrk was annoying, kings game was stupid. Kanji was like the best part of the game
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I don't think 5 has any bad characters. They're just really weak in comparison. The best P5 PC isn't anywhere near the same level as the best 3 or 4 characters. After being insanely hyped about this game for so long I was extremely disappointed in the cast

KommunistKoala posted...

I definitely feel like people have this weird nostalgia for P4 that isn't there. The chemistry isn't really THAT much better than 5's is. It is better but not by some crazy amount

I played the game last year again and it's....a significant difference. Also the shear AMOUNT of party interaction is astoundingly higher, easily more than double. Phone texts do not count.
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KommunistKoala posted...

I definitely feel like people have this weird nostalgia for P4 that isn't there. The chemistry isn't really THAT much better than 5's is. It is better but not by some crazy amount

They play off each other SO much better than 5's cast it isn't even funny. It helps they're constantly around taking to you even when it isn't serious business time while 5's characters feel like they go on extended vacations and are only around for plot. They barely ever physically interact even when they nearly all go to the same school.

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Ryokles posted...

kings game was stupid.

Why you gotta lie just to be controvertial.

I 100% disagree on Morgan's being better than Teddie. I don't factor any of the go bed stuff at all, I just....don't like him.

Chapter 5 REALLY tanked him hard. The entire game is brought down heavily by it, but Morgan's and Ryuji get it the worst.
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I feel like some of you guys had a weird bug that somehow cut half the game's scenes. I'm not even done with the game yet and the main characters have interacted tons and there any many scenes with them in it.
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And Morgana, yeah he did that weird thing in like September. But that's water under the bridge now, let bygones be bygones
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i mean i was actually pleasantly surprised how relatively quickly that situation worked itself out.

They interacted a lot in the game but it's always one dimensional bickering.
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Yusuke not going to the same school seems easy to blame at first, until you realize that being at the school post chapter 2 doesn't really have any effect.on how often a character is around
He seems to be lacking presense because everyone is after that, and you just notice it more because you want to see him more. It's not the case with Makoto because she basically takes over the story once she shows up, and guides the plot through the rest of the game. Ryuji stops smattering and is just around to suck, Ann is basically done, Futaba is there....sometimes, I guess.

Haru is the worst offender. There is nothing wrong with her, but she is such a nothing presence in the game that if you took her out it would have basically no effect the story whatsoever. It is very obvious that she was a plot important side character that they shoehorned into the group when they cut Togo from the party, further evidenced by how slapdashe chapter 5 is.
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There's more phone interaction than actual interaction in the game and most of it isn't anything fun. It doesn't really help when it feels like half the cast could just quit existing at any time and it not even matter. Ann is literally just there after like 1-2 months. Ryuji's just there to be a loud idiot and argue with Morgana. Yusuke is entertaining, but he totally could've not even joined and it wouldn't have made any difference whatsoever. I put like 200 hours into the game and felt like Joker spent more time talking to everybody other than the PCs

They text a lot which is the character interaction but every day they say the same thing

A: Think X will have a change of heart?
B: I hope so or we'll be caught!
C: Man I hope we get famous!
A: That would be bad for us!
C: Well shucks
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