Board 8 > Persona

(+) Yeah! (+)

swordz9 posted...

spends all his time yelling at a cat when he's arguably the most useless person in the game

As he should. Mona really needs to quit being so useless, I agree.
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Junpei rules, he's a shonen type main character in a series that does away with that stuff.

P5 has a better looking cast than the other 2 games. So many older women.

Makes me want persona 6 to have a main character who isn't a student.
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Pirateking2000 posted...

swordz9 posted...

I still can't believe the P5 group went to Hawaii and cried about it being boring and being more interested in Mishima's website. Literally a bunch of buzzkills

Well wasn't Mishima the only one more interested in the website while everyone else was trying to find fun shit to do but they weren't allowed or something?

I remember Ryuji wanting to check it out too. The point is they went out of their way to include Makoto and Yusuke on the trip and literally do nothing of value with it. They have a lot of characters there and they just talk about how Hawaii is boring for a couple days before you go home. Huge disappointment after P3's hot springs and P4's Port Island trips.

Honestly P4's Port Island Trip was also a huge disappointment compared to both major P3 trips. I'm with you guys on P4 having the best main group, but P3 had the best "events" by a country mile imo. The reason P4's cast shines is because of the ways they interact even when they aren't forced to because of stuff like school trips or whatever.

metaIslug posted...

these games have differences?

The Persona series absolutely an instance of arguments over the nuances of small differences becoming more heated than arguments over large differences.
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people have a really weird fixation with p4, but this is b8 so i guess i shouldn't actually be surprised
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The School Trip from P5 in a nutshell:


"Welcome to Hawaii!"

-You'll be rooming with Mishima for the next couple of days
-Sucks to be you!

Mishima: Did you see the Phansite? Phansite, I run the Phansite you know. Those phantom thieves, which is totally you are totally awesome. Did I mention the phansite? We have a contest going on. Wonder who's going to win. Phansite.

Ryuji: So how's rooming with Mishima
Joker: Fucking terrible. Dude won't shut up about the Phansite
Ryuji: Man, we need to do something fun. Hey let's ask Yusuke. Wait, why is Yusuke here?
Yusuke: Sup'
Ann: Did you get lost in LA, and somehow wind up in Hawaii?
Yusuke: No, there was a storm so somehow we decided to come to Hawaii instead. (Don't ask how they got reservations for a bunch of high school students from Japan on such short notice!)

Ryuji: So while we're waiting for the girls... let's go see if everyone here knows about the PHANTOM THIEVES
Joker: FML
Random people: Oh yeah, those phantom thieves sure are awesome.
Random Girl: Is that like a japan thing?
Haru: Hi, I'm going to be your next party member. I only showed up because I don't get enough screen time as it is.

Ryuji: Hey, I came to stay in your room because my roommate brought his gf over.
Ann: Hey, I came to stay in your room because I forgot my key because my roommate is banging Ryuji's roommate.
Mishima: There's not enough beds. GUESS WE'LL DRAW CARDS!
Ann: So what kind of girl do you like?
Ryuji: One with a good personality.
Ann: Liar.
Ryuji: Okay a hot one.
Ann: That's your real answer. You're so shallow.
Ryuji: How about you Joker?
Joker: I like teachers who moonlight as maids.
--That is not an answer
Joker: FINE. Smart ones. That covers Kawakami AND Makoto.
Ryuji: And what about you Ann? What's your type of guy?
Ann: Hasn't Mishima been in the bathroom a long time?

Ryuji: We should get something to eat! Did you know they have a Big Bang Burger here?
Makoto: They sure have some shady dealings!
Joker: This is who we're targeting next... isn't it?

Ryuji: So wanna hang out?
Joker: No thanks. I'm banging Kawakami, so I think I'll go hang with her.

Makoto: Welp, time to go home.

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greengravy294 posted...

people have a really weird fixation with p4, but this is b8 so i guess i shouldn't actually be surprised

I'm not sure why you think this is a B8 thing.

If anything Giant Bomb is most responsible.
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I should clarify that I'm not disputing that the Hawaii trip was really bad compared to any class trip for 3/4. I'm just saying that I think it's weird that people seem to be holding Persona 4 up as the gold standard for these when the trips for Persona 3 were noticeably better imo.
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Ashethan posted...

It's not the chemistry that's much better. All the events in Persona 4 are just much better. I mean the school trips you have the Campout and Gekkoukan High School vs News Station and hawaii. And somehow the one that goes to Hawaii lost. There's no real hang out moments I look forward to on a replay of P5, while there are many i look forward to in P4.

This is probably more accurate than any statement about cast chemistry or comparing the characters individually (where I would still give P4 the edge but not by a lot), yeah. Golden especially has a lot of events and it's a big reason why it felt so fresh (and kept P4 as my favorite game) when I played it last year.

if only the P4 guys had gone to Hawaii too this debate would be much simpler
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Something tells me Yasogami High couldn't afford that.
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Hawaii trip was amazing. In general P5 explores so many different emotions than P4 it's just hard to compare. If you just want feelgood fun shenanigans obviously it's not going to compare to P4.

P4 was also out for 10 whole years while everyone here was growing up, so it's not hard to see why people have massive nostalgia for it.
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You are the very first person to say the Hawaii trip was amazing, including the P5 defenders here.

I am going to need some justification because it was probably the most boring part of the entire game. Hawaii sucking is the universal truth even amongst the biggest P5 fans.
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I've never seen a game nail the deflected expectations of a famous vacation spot. It's intensely realistic and very engaging to me as someone who went on a lot of similar travels as a kid and currently really wants to visit Hawaii.

Now I'm gonna need some justification for why you think the small part of the main characters carries 60% of the weight in a Persona game. This isn't garbage Tales or DR where the rest of the game is so offensively bad that you have to latch onto the quirks of the main characters to convince yourself you're not wasting your time with the game.
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If the P4 cast went to Hawaii they would've gone surfing or water skiing or something exciting. Maybe Teddie would've wanted to see a pig roasting while doing a hula dance. They would've at least found something to do there or some way to make the scene fun. Hawaii trip is only memorable because of how awful it is

swordz9 posted...

If the P4 cast went to Hawaii they would've gone surfing or water skiing or something exciting. Maybe Teddie would've wanted to see a pig roasting while doing a hula dance. They would've at least found something to do there or some way to make the scene fun. Hawaii trip is only memorable because of how awful it is

...That's literally his point
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So your explanation is that it's good because it sucks on purpose? Got you.

No reason to acknowledge the rest of the post for obvious reasons.
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CeraSeptem posted...

swordz9 posted...

If the P4 cast went to Hawaii they would've gone surfing or water skiing or something exciting. Maybe Teddie would've wanted to see a pig roasting while doing a hula dance. They would've at least found something to do there or some way to make the scene fun. Hawaii trip is only memorable because of how awful it is

...That's literally his point

I saw his point. I'm sure very few agree with it because the school events and trips in the series are supposed to be good or fun scenes. Nobody wants them to be terrible and literally every event in P5 is terrible. The school festival, beach visit and trip are among the worst events in the entire game

P5's Hawaii trip may have 'nailed the deflected expectations of a famous vacation spot' but that didn't make it engaging to read. Maybe if the trip was 10% as long as it was it would have been kind of amusing.

I replayed P4 a few years before playing P5 and P4 is absolutely the better game. The difference in writing is astounding. P5 nails some parts but it also has some of the worst segments in the series.
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In some ways, persona 5 is too realistic about certain things.
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LapisLazuli posted...

So your explanation is that it's good because it sucks on purpose? Got you.

Yes

Again, please don't strain yourself too hard trying to figure it out. Just be glad DR exists for people like you.
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Never thought I'd see the day when LTM and swordz are hating on a Persona game especially the first Persona game in nearly a decade.
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I posted about this earlier, but I 100% agree that the Hawaii trip is obviously bad on purpose and it's going right over a lot of people's heads. Does that make it better than P4's events? Hell no IMO, but you should at least consider it for what it is. P5 (most of the time) isn't trying to have P4's happy-go-lucky slice of life anime events. It does try to have them a couple of times, though, and they fall flat, so there's still a comparison to be had there.
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swordz9 posted...

are supposed to be

Which is why the subversion works. It's not a negative for the game to avoid following the mold.

KamikazePotato posted...

Maybe if the trip was 10% as long as it was it would have been kind of amusing.

No way, the length was perfect. Haven't you ever been bored on a vacation that went a couple days longer than you wanted? The date on the last day kinda ruined that actually, felt a bit forced.
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I mean yeah sure there's a thematic reason why the event is the way it is, and that makes sense in the greater context of the story, but that doesn't necessarily make the event itself interesting. What people are saying is that in past Persona games the trips were exciting events, which wasn't the case with P5's. I agree that doesn't necessarily say anything about the quality of the game overall because again there's a conscious thematic choice for which that makes sense, but obviously there are people that disagree with that.
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That was in response to Xiahou, not foolmo by the way. Yes, I know foolmo believes something slightly different than I'm saying here.
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GranzonEx posted...

Never thought I'd see the day when LTM and swordz are hating on a Persona game especially the first Persona game in nearly a decade.

I don't like P3 so not sure why!
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Also hating is an odd tulerm for a game I'd say is still a 5/5.
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Hawaii's something and all but really there should have been more done with The Gang go to Not Disney
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Also foolmo I'm just not gonna be able to take you seriously when you're being an asshole.

I realize that's your schtick but you need to tone it down sometimes if you're trying to actually make a point and not just shit on cons in the politics topic.
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I don't think Hawaii is interesting in the context of the story at all. You could cut it out and nothing would change. "It sucks on purpose" isn't an excuse when it sucking brings nothing to the table.
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LapisLazuli posted...

I don't like P3 so not sure why!

It's really probably because P4 is a pretty huge outlier in themes/characters for the series. P1/2 are basically Shin Megami Tensei games with different gameplay, P3/5 feel very much like spin-offs, and P4 feels like JoJo's Bizarre Adventure with a dash of Scooby Doo and K-On.

Casts are affected by this too. P3's group is essentially a bunch of co-workers that only find a closer bond at the end of the story, P5's are angry teenagers rebelling against/trying to fix a world they see as shitty, and P4's are super anime best friends solving mysteries and having fun in their small town. With differences like this it's pretty easy to see that different games will speak to different people. For me, 5 > 4 > 3 but I super easily see why other folks would have 4 or even 3 at the top.
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I'm just gonna post here saying I agree with foolmo's assessment of the Hawaii trip and leave it at that.
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GranzonEx posted...

Never thought I'd see the day when LTM and swordz are hating on a Persona game especially the first Persona game in nearly a decade.

I like the game, but I can't ignore the bad events, bad writing in spots and lack of cast interaction/chemistry. I also can't ignore what they do with Ryuji. He is so different at the start and in his Confidant compared to 90% of the story where he's just "argh shitty adults are shitty let's take a shit on them and make them see how shitty their shitty desires are"

At the end of the day P5 was an incredible game and is probably still gonna be GotY. Hell, unless some E3 shenanigans happen, it's gonna run unapposed unless DRV3 is even better than expected. Just wasn't as good as P4, which is still my #1 game.
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pyresword posted...

but that doesn't necessarily make the event itself interesting

I do strongly agree with this though, you can't just subvert expectations for the sake of it, that's just cheap. But I think P5 does the events well and has them provide significant thematic support for the characters and the story (just like P4's events provide thematic support). It's just not the typical "fun" stuff.
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I feel like you could cut the events from P5 out with nothing changing. Honestly I'd prefer that over getting disappointing versions of them

LapisLazuli posted...

Also foolmo I'm just not gonna be able to take you seriously when you're being an asshole.

Oh no, I guess I just have to continue talking fine with the dozens of other people ITT

And I think I've posted exactly 0 times in the politics topic
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I think 4 is the best, followed by 5. 3 didn't really do all that much aside from things like operation babe hunt and the hot springs incident. The gameplay seemed really choppy, especially in Tartarus (though this is probably because I played 3 after 4). On top of that, the male PC in persona 3 didn't do anything to make me interested in the game. He didn't have any amusing or interesting responses outside of when he pretended to be a cat. He was just there and incredibly boring. I enjoyed the game a lot more when I did ng+ and played as FeMC, since she was at least fun and had a personality. I didn't care about the ending at all when I played as the male MC, but it hit hard as FeMC since I actually cared about her. Too bad she isn't canon.
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The fact that it's the SECOND beach event in the game does back up your justification even further, but I just don't think that's worth it. The idea thay it was bad on purpose makes it even worse in my eyes that if it had just been lame on accident because it fell short. Perhaps if everything AROUND the Hawaii trip wasn't also the worst part of the game it would have worked better, but Hawaii being surrounded by mediocrity in general made it even more of a drag. Everything surrounding Palace 5 lead in is so rushed and supports the Haru switch in theory so well that any attempt at the subversion of expectations by making the trip suck just fuels the flames. They stuck it in the wrong place.
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Oh well at least you don't deny it.
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Foolmo is just fucking with you. He knows the characters are shit and makes excuses them for being shit.

I could do without most of the pointless texting every day during class and in the evening. I can also do without the calling card day with with the group getting together talking about absolutely nothing. The group dynamics are so shallow that by the 3rd palace you already know they have nothing interesting to say every time they meet up. They always just bicker, I'm not talking about teasing each other, they bicker and bitch about the most inane things.
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I went into Hawaii with huge expectations, since I had just replayed the beach trip in P4, and that was hilarious. Was extremely disappointed.
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I'm pretty sure I fastforwarded through everything text conversation for the last 2 or 3 palaces. They're so. Fucking. Boring. The same shit every time. Immediately after getting Futaba you get a couple of fun ones, that's about it.

The dialogue in Mementos is sooooooo good though. Better than....any other dialogue in the game, really. Shame it's constantly cutting itself off.
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It'd be one thing if the Hawaii trip were bad for the characters--but it's bad for the players too.

I mean in Persona 4 the camping trip is a TOTAL DISASTER, but it's still a fun and engaging event.
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I laughed out loud so many times during the camping trip, especially at the end with King Moron. Man I love Persona 4
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I mean just one way to liven up the P5 Trip:

(Minor spoilers for the trip)

Have it rain the whole time! Then have Ann and Makoto blame Yusuke (who doesn't really see how it's his fault, until Ryuji points out it was sunny until Yusuke showed up)<
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RaidenZeroX posted...

3 didn't really do all that much aside from things like operation babe hunt and the hot springs incident. The gameplay seemed really choppy, especially in Tartarus (though this is probably because I played 3 after 4). On top of that, the male PC in persona 3 didn't do anything to make me interested in the game. He didn't have any amusing or interesting responses outside of when he pretended to be a cat. He was just there and incredibly boring.

Just to defend my Persona 3 here, here's what I think Persona 3 does that P4 and P5 do not:

--Covers the most compelling themes of the three games and is more cohesive in exploring those than the other two games

--Integrates its characters with the story in a way that makes sense and doesn't make it such that each character loses relevance after their dungeon of the week.

--Has pretty much the greatest finale in video gaming history imo. (I am referring to everything in the final month, not just the ending sequence itself)

--Has the most compelling atmosphere of the three games

Ok I guess technically I haven't finished P5 yet, but I'd be pretty surprised if it had anything mindblowingly impressive left to pull out. Also I think P3 is marginally the best in a few other respects, but I'm mainly trying to stick to things that I think P3 excels at which the other games do not.
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GranzonEx posted...

Foolmo is just fucking with you. He knows the characters are shit and makes excuses them for being shit.

Actually I'm fucking with YOU. I knew you would come in here and use your brilliant deductive abilities to figure out that I was actually fucking with LTM, but it was all a setup to get you to think I actually agree with you, when in reality I don't agree with you at all!! Rekttttt
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What a twist!
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