Poll of the Day > Republicans AND Democrats are BEGGING to re-release a PRISONER serving 98 YEARS

(+) Yeah! (+)

The Colorado House unanimously called on Democratic Gov. John Hickenlooper to grant mercy on a robbery-kidnapping convict who went BACK to prison after being mistakenly released 9 years ago and reforming his life!!

Both Republicans and Democrats agreed that Rene Lima-Marin's continued incarceration and separation from his new family is "cruel and unusual punishment". They stood and applauded his wife and 2 sons who went to the non-binding resolution's reading

The 38 y/o got a 98 year sentence when he was convicted in 2000 of multiple robbery, kidnapping and burglary counts..he and Michael Clifton robbed 2 Denver video stores at gunpoint and got a back to back sentences totalling 98 years.

A court clerk accidentally sent in his name for early release in 2008 and since then he's held a steady job and window glazer and got married..But in January 2014 when the mistake was noticed, police rounded him up and sent him right back to complete his sentence where his parole is at 2053!!

Before being sent back he was selling coupon books door to door and was skilled at cutting and installing windows and reconnected with his former g/f, Jasmine Lime-Marin and got married..He became active in church and became a soccer coach!!

He helped raise 7 y/o Justus and another boy, Josiah and missed his son's birthday since he went back to prison..

Jasmine said "That was his life, raising his kids and being a husband. He definitely was not the same person that he was when he went to prison".

Prosecutors however have no sympathy and said he should remain in bars because he KNEW it was an error but didn't blow the whistle.

Republican Dave Williams is the lead sponsor to said they should release him as his out of prison success is a "story of restoration and redemption"

Do you think they should re-release him? let's see what people think

Rene -

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/1/2017/04/21/21/wire-439421-1492807268-430_634x453.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/04/22/06/3F7AB8BC00000578-4433830-image-m-15_1492838541243.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/04/22/06/3F7AB8B000000578-4433830-image-a-18_1492839334816.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/04/22/06/3F7AC3B800000578-4433830-image-a-17_1492839264231.jpg
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It is sad but the law is the law. I don't have sympathy for someone that lost their freedom over kidnapping and armed robbery.
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Given that it's the government's mistake and he's since turned his back on crime, I see no issue with him going free. After all, the ideal of the prison system is to reform individuals so that they can become useful citizens. If we've already achieved that, there's no point in putting him back in at taxpayer expense especially since it turns somebody paying taxes into somebody consuming taxes. If anything, it should be chalked up as a win and we should experiment with other early releases.
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Zeus posted...

After all, the ideal of the prison system is to reform individuals so that they can become useful citizens.

That is not why we have prisons.
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Mead posted...

Zeus posted...

After all, the ideal of the prison system is to reform individuals so that they can become useful citizens.

That is not why we have prisons.

It's what prisons are SUPPOSED to do. Regardless of the current dysfunctional system, that's the ideal.
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Let him rot in prison!
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Honestly, I could *maybe* see a punitive argument if he had killed or seriously hurt somebody -- although the government shouldn't use Hammurabi's Code as the basis for its justice system (or Harambe's Code, for that matter) -- but even that isn't the case.
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Zeus posted...

Mead posted...

Zeus posted...

After all, the ideal of the prison system is to reform individuals so that they can become useful citizens.

That is not why we have prisons.

It's what prisons are SUPPOSED to do. Regardless of the current dysfunctional system, that's the ideal.

I disagree. If someone needs an entire support structure and government system just to teach them how to be a functional adult and not prey on others, I think they are pretty much a lost cause. Prison is first and foremost a punishment and deterrant.
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Mead posted...

Zeus posted...

Mead posted...

Zeus posted...

After all, the ideal of the prison system is to reform individuals so that they can become useful citizens.

That is not why we have prisons.

It's what prisons are SUPPOSED to do. Regardless of the current dysfunctional system, that's the ideal.

I disagree. If someone needs an entire support structure and government system just to teach them how to be a functional adult and not prey on others, I think they are pretty much a lost cause. Prison is first and foremost a punishment and deterrant.

Which might be a reasonable argument if not the fact that this case LITERALLY shows that they're not a lost cause because he's now a productive tax-paying citizen. That isn't to say that it shouldn't also deter through punishment, but the man served 8 years on a ridiculously, insensible over-the-top sentence. He's not exactly getting out scot-free.
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free him
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Zeus posted...

Mead posted...

Zeus posted...

Mead posted...

Zeus posted...

After all, the ideal of the prison system is to reform individuals so that they can become useful citizens.

That is not why we have prisons.

It's what prisons are SUPPOSED to do. Regardless of the current dysfunctional system, that's the ideal.

I disagree. If someone needs an entire support structure and government system just to teach them how to be a functional adult and not prey on others, I think they are pretty much a lost cause. Prison is first and foremost a punishment and deterrant.

Which might be a reasonable argument if not the fact that this case LITERALLY shows that they're not a lost cause because he's now a productive tax-paying citizen. That isn't to say that it shouldn't also deter through punishment, but the man served 8 years on a ridiculously, insensible over-the-top sentence. He's not exactly getting out scot-free.

If he wanted the oppurtunity for that kind of life then maybe he should have done that without commiting serious crimes. Most people go their entire lives without robbing anyone at gunpoint or kidnapping someone.

We are a country of laws, not men. Simply being a regular person for a few years does not absolve him of his guilt or his crimes. He was given a trial and a sentence was made. How many criminals in prison would want this same oppurtunity if they were to free this guy?
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Mead posted...

How many criminals in prison would want this same oppurtunity if they were to free this guy?

Pretty sure everyone in prison wants out of prison, regardless of what happens to this guy. Also, there's already a system that lets people out early, it's called parole. At any rate, you going on about the law is irrelevant, because they aren't saying the ignore the law and let him go, they're seeking a pardon from the govenor, which is something that can be legally done.
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GanonsSpirit posted...

Mead posted...

How many criminals in prison would want this same oppurtunity if they were to free this guy?

Pretty sure everyone in prison wants out of prison, regardless of what happens to this guy. Also, there's already a system that lets people out early, it's called parole. At any rate, you going on about the law is irrelevant, because they aren't saying the ignore the law and let him go, they're seeking a pardon from the govenor, which is something that can be legally done.

Except he hasn't done anything to earn a pardon except live a regular life after an error was made and he was freed. Nothing that occured overturns his sentence. The governer should send him a letter in prison that says "You're welcome for those years you got to spend outside"
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If being reformed doesn't earn you a pardon, what does? Not everyone can save the president from New York.
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GanonsSpirit posted...

If being reformed doesn't earn you a pardon, what does? Not everyone can save the president from New York.

Being found not guilty after a conviction was made. Or maybe a law changing so that what you did is no longer a crime.

Maybe this guy is a better person now. Good for him. The fact is that he is still guilty.
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Mead posted...

Being found not guilty after a conviction was made.

Uh, you don't need a pardon to get out after that.
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GanonsSpirit posted...

Mead posted...

Being found not guilty after a conviction was made.

Uh, you don't need a pardon to get out after that.

Cool.
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Mead posted...

Except he hasn't done anything to earn a pardon except live a regular life after an error was made and he was freed.

I'd say living life as a productive member of society is pretty adequate justification for letting somebody continue to be a member of society. It's pretty hard to interpret that result as anything other than "this guy doesn't need to be in jail anymore."

This man is a danger to society.

Keep him behind bars.

I think he should be pardoned. Sometimes you need a second chance, at least this guy turned his life around.

TheWorstPoster posted...

This man is a danger to society.

Keep him behind bars.

This guy is a much more productive member of society than you.
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This is a good example of how particularly long sentences are wasting everybody's time, if you're going to put them away for 15 years plus you may as well kill them now.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

This is a good example of how particularly long sentences are wasting everybody's time, if you're going to put them away for 15 years plus you may as well kill them now.

b-b-but muh false convictions!

we would be so much better off as a country if we just put a bullet in people with multiple felony convictions

this scumbag deserves the same

Tough situation, but I'd still say lock him up because I'm not fond of letting criminals get away with their crimes. Even if he has reformed, that doesn't excuse what he did and his victims will likely be dealing with the aftermath of his crimes for the remainder of their lives.
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Dude was literally freed by a miracle and given a second chance. If the cosmos wanted him to be free and he successful fixed his life then let him be free. Sure he commited crimes and should be locked up, but how many more people can he save from the prison system by telling his story and helping kids? He is a soccer coach and will probably be a better facilitator then most. He can do more good making up for his crimes as a productive citizen then being put back in prison. My mind is blown by how many people say lock him up.
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yutterh posted...

Dude was literally freed by a miracle and given a second chance. If the cosmos wanted him to be free and he successful fixed his life then let him be free. Sure he commited crimes and should be locked up, but how many more people can he save from the prison system by telling his story and helping kids? He is a soccer coach and will probably be a better facilitator then most. He can do more good making up for his crimes as a productive citizen then being put back in prison. My mind is blown by how many people say lock him up.

I say let this be an example of the kind of life you lose lose when you resort a life of crime and try disregard the rest of society.

Sure he could have a good fulfilling life, the kind we all strive for, but he went and fucked that up.
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Mead posted...

Sure he could have a good fulfilling life, the kind we all strive for, but he went and fucked that up.

Gotta agree with Mead here. As a person, you are given a plethora of opportunities to not commit heinous felonies. Most people go their entire lives without ever getting arrested. He willfully chose to disregard the law, he should pay the price.
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Rasmoh posted...

Mead posted...

Sure he could have a good fulfilling life, the kind we all strive for, but he went and fucked that up.

Gotta agree with Mead here. As a person, you are given a plethora of opportunities to not commit heinous felonies. Most people go their entire lives without ever getting arrested. He willfully chose to disregard the law, he should pay the price.

Well then i guess we just agree to disagree here.
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If what he did was enough for NINETY EIGHT bloody years, then regardless of how angelic he's publicly 'become' he's got no sympathy from me.

You can't just 'accidentally' get that much, or make 'one mistake'. 98 years would be a LOT of shit he's done.

Whilst I think the extent of time is excessive (because really, 38+98 = dead before leaving) I don't think he should be freed due to an error.

Sure he's 'changed', but does that change his crimes? If he's changed he'll go through the proper way to end his sentence earlier. Not a public outcry that thinks it can mob-mentality its way through the law.
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98 years seems a little extreme to begin with. Letting him go and then bringing him back for their mistake, when he didn't actually do anything the second time around? That's cruel and unusual punishment right there.

I say let him go.
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While I agree he should have never been let go in the first place, it could also be argued that by letting him out of prison, even accidentally, and letting him live outside for that long and establishing a normal life, it could be considered cruel and unusual punishment at this point.

Psychologically, that could damage someone even worse than just having to serve their regular sentance.

Hercular1 posted...

Psychologically, that could damage someone even worse than just having to serve their regular sentance.

So have him to talk to a prison psychiatrist. He was given a sentence as a punishment. There are folks that get out early for good behavior, good for them. This guy got out on a technicality, but he hasn't repaid his debt to society. I'd agree that 98 years is extreme, but the judge made the sentence for a reason and the law needs to be respected for the good of society as a whole. One man's life is not as important as that.
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Mead posted...

Hercular1 posted...

Psychologically, that could damage someone even worse than just having to serve their regular sentance.

So have him to talk to a prison psychiatrist. He was given a sentence as a punishment. There are folks that get out early for good behavior, good for them. This guy got out on a technicality, but he hasn't repaid his debt to society. I'd agree that 98 years is extreme, but the judge made the sentence for a reason and the law needs to be respected for the good of society as a whole. One man's life is not as important as that.

It's easy to take a hard stance against something like this, but there is a gray area.

What if this man was truly rehabilitated and reformed, and by locking him back up you have now set him on the path to being irredeemable.

The government totally screwed this up, so if there is a psychological harm done to this man, then that is their direct responsibility.

Should we just let him go again? I don't know. But it can be argued for a type of cruel and unusual punishment at this point, and should at least be legally and societally looked at.

Hercular1 posted...

and by locking him back up you have now set him on the path to being irredeemable.

Well, technically he'll be dead before his sentence is up anyway, so they're only locking him up to slowly kill him. Which honestly can be classed as cruel and unusual punishment despite my aforementioned feelings towards him.
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Hercular1 posted...

What if this man was truly rehabilitated and reformed, and by locking him back up you have now set him on the path to being irredeemable

All the more reason that he really should not have been an armed robber and kidnapper. Those aren't minor crimes. Let him be an example to others who prey on society.
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It's like everyone in this topic is ignoring the fact that the guy got a 98 year sentence without even hurting or killing anyone.

He should have had a 10 year sentence max. He's served 8 years of it, and has turned his life around. There is absolutely no reason for him to return to prison.
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This hurts his wife and children. Not only will he become a tax consumer instead of tax payer his wife will most likely have to go on government support. And by the looks of his kids he seems to be a good father. I don't know if they were at the age where he could tell them his past, this forces it upon them and they experience a person that has only been good to them going to prison. Messes em up in the head probably.
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Mead posted...

Let him be an example to others who prey on society.

If prison worked as a deterrent, the prisons wouldn't be overcrowded.
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faramir77 posted...

It's like everyone in this topic is ignoring the fact that the guy got a 98 year sentence without even hurting or killing anyone.

Just because he didn't physically hurt someone doesn't mean the victims of his crimes won't have some form of severe mental scarring for life. There are also potential economic damages that could literally take decades to recover from. And the dirtbag was likely offered a much better deal than a 98 year sentence and chose to go to trial anyway. I could agree with maybe a reduction in his sentence, but to release him is a mockery of justice.

GanonsSpirit posted...

If prison worked as a deterrent, the prisons wouldn't be overcrowded.

I work for the judicial department in my state and I can tell you that prison does act as a deterrent for many people. Many career criminals in my area will specifically not commit certain crimes because they know what will land them in prison and what will just put them in the county jail.

And prisons are overcrowded because we are ridiculously over-compassionate as a society. I could literally go to the nearest elementary school, beat a child with a baseball bat until they are crippled, have a crowd of eyewitnesses and get caught on camera, fully admit to doing it and my reward would be taxpayer funded food, shelter and healthcare for a few decades. We are rapidly approaching a point where a serious, sudden change in judicial procedure is going to have to change if we want to maintain a society. As it stands, many criminals are free to run amok and ruin lives because no one wants to be mean and actually put a real stop to criminal activity.
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GanonsSpirit posted...

Mead posted...

Let him be an example to others who prey on society.

If prison worked as a deterrent, the prisons wouldn't be overcrowded.

Prisons are overcrowded because of the war on drugs, not because people don't want to end up there.
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If he is turning his life around then he should be released or cut his sentence.
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8 years is already a reasonable sentence for 2 armed robberies. The law and justice system are in the wrong here. "8 years concurrently, 98 years consecutively" means that he was convicted on at least 13 counts. So it's some technical bullshit where if there's 7 people in the shop it counts as 7 cases of assault.

Edit: found new info. It was 8 sentences where the maximum was 16 years. The prison system interpreted it as concurrent serving -> 16 years total, and let him out on parole half way through it.
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Zeus posted...

After all, the ideal of the prison system is to reform individuals so that they can become useful citizens

I mean that's the platitude, but it's very obviously not how we do things in the United States. If it was we wouldn't have a punitive prison system that continues to punish convicts even after they've done their time.

Mead posted...

Prisons are overcrowded because of the war on drugs, not because people don't want to end up there.

So what you're saying is that prison is failing to deter people from using illegal substances. You basically just agreed with him.

EightySeven posted...

Mead posted...

Prisons are overcrowded because of the war on drugs, not because people don't want to end up there.

So what you're saying is that prison is failing to deter people from using illegal substances. You basically just agreed with him.

I don't feel like that is what I said, you seem pretty smart though so I'll trust you this one time
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ZeldaMutant posted...

8 years is already a reasonable sentence for 2 armed robberies. The law and justice system are in the wrong here. "8 years concurrently, 98 years consecutively" means that he was convicted on at least 13 counts. So it's some technical bullshit where if there's 7 people in the shop it counts as 7 cases of assault.

The kidnapping charges were for moving three employees from one room to another and added 48 years to his sentence.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/06/12/how-an-inmates-second-chance-was-yanked-away-after-officials-discovered-88-year-sentencing-mistake/

Lima-Marin and Clifton were convicted in separate trials but sentenced at the same hearing. The prosecutor had dissected the robberies into a litany of discrete actions — including kidnapping, because they moved employees from one room to another. That approach produced a sentencing structure boosted by the crime-of-violence enhancer toward a total of 98 years. That was the low end of a range that could have exceeded 300 years.

At sentencing, Judge John Leopold took issue with that strategy: “I am not comfortable, frankly, with the way the case is charged, but that is a district attorney executive branch decision that I find that I have no control over.”

That decision was informed by the input of the Chronic Offender Program, which the 18th Judicial District designed in the late 1980s to put away criminals considered an ongoing threat to public safety for as long as possible. In 1998, five years after the so-called “Summer of Violence” in metro Denver had turned a laser focus on violent crime, the COP came down hard.

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Mead posted...

I don't feel like that is what I said, you seem pretty smart though so I'll trust you this one time

Well it is, so I guess you should, good call.

Mead posted...

If he wanted the oppurtunity for that kind of life then maybe he should have done that without commiting serious crimes. Most people go their entire lives without robbing anyone at gunpoint or kidnapping someone.

But if somebody does rob or kidnap somebody, it's of a greater benefit to reform them so they can pay into the system rather than lock them up so the system is stuck paying for them. A prisoner costs around $32k per year in most states and he was slated to be locked up for his entire life, which is over a million dollars in unnecessary expense.

He did 8 years, which is reasonable for a punishment, and he's clearly reformed. Some people need prison or the army to straighten them out and, in this case, it clearly worked so why put him back in?

Mead posted...

We are a country of laws, not men. Simply being a regular person for a few years does not absolve him of his guilt or his crimes. He was given a trial and a sentence was made. How many criminals in prison would want this same oppurtunity if they were to free this guy?

Governors can legally pardon anybody. No matter what, this is being done through legal systems. And if we could get the same result from other prisoners who have served a good part of their sentence, we should do it. The US's sentencing is fucking insane compared to most first-world nations.

Mead posted...

Except he hasn't done anything to earn a pardon except live a regular life after an error was made and he was freed.

Again, literally the ideal of prisons is turning people productive. He's shown that he can be a productive, law-abiding citizen. He served 8 years, which is a substantial sentence, and reformed.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

This is a good example of how particularly long sentences are wasting everybody's time,

This.There's no reason to waste tax dollars keeping somebody in when they can be paying taxes on the outside. A prison sentence should be no longer than what's required to make somebody productive and, to some extent, to discourage initial offenses (although prison is so onerous that even a year is enough to scare most people)







TheGreatNoodles posted...

If what he did was enough for NINETY EIGHT bloody years, then regardless of how angelic he's publicly 'become' he's got no sympathy from me.

You can't just 'accidentally' get that much, or make 'one mistake'. 98 years would be a LOT of shit he's done.

Whilst I think the extent of time is excessive (because really, 38+98 = dead before leaving) I don't think he should be freed due to an error.

Sure he's 'changed', but does that change his crimes? If he's changed he'll go through the proper way to end his sentence earlier. Not a public outcry that thinks it can mob-mentality its way through the law.

No, 98 years demonstrates how fucked up our legal system is. And mob mentality is much of the reason why egregious sentencing exists in the first place and disproportionately hurts men.

faramir77 posted...

It's like everyone in this topic is ignoring the fact that the guy got a 98 year sentence without even hurting or killing anyone.

I literally pointed that out, although his actions involved violence.

ZeldaMutant posted...

So it's some technical bullshit where if there's 7 people in the shop it counts as 7 cases of assault.

Welcome to the American justice system. It's terrible, but we apparently don't feel like changing it.
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Sad circumstance but I have to side with the law.
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Pretty good example on how reformation > punishment.

This guy was a bad man, he went to jail, changed himself and became a productive member of society.

Now he'll rot in a cell and waste tax dollars for no good reason.