After all, the ideal of the prison system is to reform individuals so that they can become useful citizens.
Zeus posted...
After all, the ideal of the prison system is to reform individuals so that they can become useful citizens.
That is not why we have prisons.
Mead posted...
Zeus posted...
After all, the ideal of the prison system is to reform individuals so that they can become useful citizens.
That is not why we have prisons.
It's what prisons are SUPPOSED to do. Regardless of the current dysfunctional system, that's the ideal.
Zeus posted...
Mead posted...
Zeus posted...
After all, the ideal of the prison system is to reform individuals so that they can become useful citizens.
That is not why we have prisons.
It's what prisons are SUPPOSED to do. Regardless of the current dysfunctional system, that's the ideal.
I disagree. If someone needs an entire support structure and government system just to teach them how to be a functional adult and not prey on others, I think they are pretty much a lost cause. Prison is first and foremost a punishment and deterrant.
Mead posted...
Zeus posted...
Mead posted...
Zeus posted...
After all, the ideal of the prison system is to reform individuals so that they can become useful citizens.
That is not why we have prisons.
It's what prisons are SUPPOSED to do. Regardless of the current dysfunctional system, that's the ideal.
I disagree. If someone needs an entire support structure and government system just to teach them how to be a functional adult and not prey on others, I think they are pretty much a lost cause. Prison is first and foremost a punishment and deterrant.
Which might be a reasonable argument if not the fact that this case LITERALLY shows that they're not a lost cause because he's now a productive tax-paying citizen. That isn't to say that it shouldn't also deter through punishment, but the man served 8 years on a ridiculously, insensible over-the-top sentence. He's not exactly getting out scot-free.
How many criminals in prison would want this same oppurtunity if they were to free this guy?
Mead posted...
How many criminals in prison would want this same oppurtunity if they were to free this guy?
Pretty sure everyone in prison wants out of prison, regardless of what happens to this guy. Also, there's already a system that lets people out early, it's called parole. At any rate, you going on about the law is irrelevant, because they aren't saying the ignore the law and let him go, they're seeking a pardon from the govenor, which is something that can be legally done.
If being reformed doesn't earn you a pardon, what does? Not everyone can save the president from New York.
Being found not guilty after a conviction was made.
Mead posted...
Being found not guilty after a conviction was made.
Uh, you don't need a pardon to get out after that.
Except he hasn't done anything to earn a pardon except live a regular life after an error was made and he was freed.
This man is a danger to society.
Keep him behind bars.
This is a good example of how particularly long sentences are wasting everybody's time, if you're going to put them away for 15 years plus you may as well kill them now.
Dude was literally freed by a miracle and given a second chance. If the cosmos wanted him to be free and he successful fixed his life then let him be free. Sure he commited crimes and should be locked up, but how many more people can he save from the prison system by telling his story and helping kids? He is a soccer coach and will probably be a better facilitator then most. He can do more good making up for his crimes as a productive citizen then being put back in prison. My mind is blown by how many people say lock him up.
Sure he could have a good fulfilling life, the kind we all strive for, but he went and fucked that up.
Mead posted...
Sure he could have a good fulfilling life, the kind we all strive for, but he went and fucked that up.
Gotta agree with Mead here. As a person, you are given a plethora of opportunities to not commit heinous felonies. Most people go their entire lives without ever getting arrested. He willfully chose to disregard the law, he should pay the price.
Psychologically, that could damage someone even worse than just having to serve their regular sentance.
Hercular1 posted...
Psychologically, that could damage someone even worse than just having to serve their regular sentance.
So have him to talk to a prison psychiatrist. He was given a sentence as a punishment . There are folks that get out early for good behavior, good for them. This guy got out on a technicality, but he hasn't repaid his debt to society. I'd agree that 98 years is extreme, but the judge made the sentence for a reason and the law needs to be respected for the good of society as a whole. One man's life is not as important as that.
and by locking him back up you have now set him on the path to being irredeemable.
What if this man was truly rehabilitated and reformed, and by locking him back up you have now set him on the path to being irredeemable
Let him be an example to others who prey on society.
It's like everyone in this topic is ignoring the fact that the guy got a 98 year sentence without even hurting or killing anyone.
If prison worked as a deterrent, the prisons wouldn't be overcrowded.
Mead posted...
Let him be an example to others who prey on society.
If prison worked as a deterrent, the prisons wouldn't be overcrowded.
After all, the ideal of the prison system is to reform individuals so that they can become useful citizens
Prisons are overcrowded because of the war on drugs, not because people don't want to end up there.
Mead posted...
Prisons are overcrowded because of the war on drugs, not because people don't want to end up there.
So what you're saying is that prison is failing to deter people from using illegal substances. You basically just agreed with him.
8 years is already a reasonable sentence for 2 armed robberies. The law and justice system are in the wrong here. "8 years concurrently, 98 years consecutively" means that he was convicted on at least 13 counts. So it's some technical bullshit where if there's 7 people in the shop it counts as 7 cases of assault.
Lima-Marin and Clifton were convicted in separate trials but sentenced at the same hearing. The prosecutor had dissected the robberies into a litany of discrete actions — including kidnapping, because they moved employees from one room to another. That approach produced a sentencing structure boosted by the crime-of-violence enhancer toward a total of 98 years. That was the low end of a range that could have exceeded 300 years.
At sentencing, Judge John Leopold took issue with that strategy: “I am not comfortable, frankly, with the way the case is charged, but that is a district attorney executive branch decision that I find that I have no control over.”
That decision was informed by the input of the Chronic Offender Program, which the 18th Judicial District designed in the late 1980s to put away criminals considered an ongoing threat to public safety for as long as possible. In 1998, five years after the so-called “Summer of Violence” in metro Denver had turned a laser focus on violent crime, the COP came down hard.
I don't feel like that is what I said, you seem pretty smart though so I'll trust you this one time
If he wanted the oppurtunity for that kind of life then maybe he should have done that without commiting serious crimes. Most people go their entire lives without robbing anyone at gunpoint or kidnapping someone.
We are a country of laws, not men. Simply being a regular person for a few years does not absolve him of his guilt or his crimes. He was given a trial and a sentence was made. How many criminals in prison would want this same oppurtunity if they were to free this guy?
Except he hasn't done anything to earn a pardon except live a regular life after an error was made and he was freed.
This is a good example of how particularly long sentences are wasting everybody's time,
If what he did was enough for NINETY EIGHT bloody years, then regardless of how angelic he's publicly 'become' he's got no sympathy from me.
You can't just 'accidentally' get that much, or make 'one mistake'. 98 years would be a LOT of shit he's done.
Whilst I think the extent of time is excessive (because really, 38+98 = dead before leaving) I don't think he should be freed due to an error.
Sure he's 'changed', but does that change his crimes? If he's changed he'll go through the proper way to end his sentence earlier. Not a public outcry that thinks it can mob-mentality its way through the law.
It's like everyone in this topic is ignoring the fact that the guy got a 98 year sentence without even hurting or killing anyone.
So it's some technical bullshit where if there's 7 people in the shop it counts as 7 cases of assault.