Board 8 > Recommed me mystery novels.

(+) Yeah! (+)

I never really got a chance to read mystery novels and I just so happen to be in a library tomorrow, so I might as well use the chance to catch up.

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And Then There Were None

totally quintessential

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From: Justin_Crossing | #002
And Then There Were None

totally quintessential
Ehhhh personally I think it's barely a mystery and more of a thriller, which is why it went so mainstream.

He Who Whispers by John Dickson Carr
The Hollow Man/Three Coffins by John Dickson Carr(same book, different titles depending on what edition you get)
The Problem of the Green Capsule by John Dickson Carr
Case for Three Detectives by Leo Bruce
Death from a Top Hat by Clayton Rawson
The Tokyo Zodiac Murders by Soji Shimada
The Tattoo Murder Case by Akimitsu Takagi
The Egyptian Cross Mystery by Ellery Queen

...I'm gonna stop now else I probably wouldn't be able to.

Ehhhh personally I think it's barely a mystery and more of a thriller, which is why it went so mainstream.

While true, that doesn't keep it from being totally awesome.

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Black Turtle did a pretty good job.

Oh it's awesome alright. But my job is to be the mystery hipster around these parts so, you know.

The Sinister Signpost by Franklin W. Dixon

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Caves of Steel by Isaac Asimov
The Naked Sun by Isaac Asimov

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Any of the Hercule Poirot series by Christie. She's the greatest.

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Haguile: I'm sure I know what the answer is, but do you think you should try to figure out the mystery on your own when you read those books you posted?

Also, which do you think would be most good for a "beginner"?

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From: RayDyn | #007
Caves of Steel by Isaac Asimov
The Naked Sun by Isaac Asimov
Doubly recommend it. Asimov is amazing at both sci-fi and mystery. His plotting is something not many sci-fi writers have and it's really wonderful.

From: shadosneko | #009
Haguile: I'm sure I know what the answer is, but do you think you should try to figure out the mystery on your own when you read those books you posted?

Also, which do you think would be most good for a "beginner"?
Yes, you should, in my personal opinion. Mystery novels are more fun that way. Ellery Queen out of those even has a moment when he breaks the fourth wall to present a "Challenge to the reader" where he says that all clues have been presented and the reader is now invited to solve it.

For "beginners" trying to solve mystery novels, I'd recommend:

1)Benson Murder Case by Van Dine(No copyright by now so you can legally obtain a PDF pretty much anywhere).

This novel is pretty easy to solve, as the detective solves the murder around chapter 5 out of 25. The reader can also solve it around then. That's why mystery readers generally think it's a bit too easy, myself included. But it's still a very decent novel. The other 20 chapters involve the detective being a dick to the district attorney and refusing to tell him the solution.

2)Roman Hat Mysery by Ellery Queen

Also very simple and easy, but better written than Benson. No idea on whether it's copyrighted still or not. This one also features the "Challenge to the reader" where the book breaks the fourth wall to tell the reader that he has seen all the clues he needs to find the killer. Due to both its very strong logic, easy mystery and "Challenge to the reader" this is the best book for beginners.

3)And So To Murder by John Dickson Carr

This is a pretty easy mystery, not really a masterpiece or anything. But it's goddamn fun to read. It had be legitimately laughing out loud at times and it really makes you want to turn the page and keep reading the story. See, the above two are great mysteries but they lack in plot. Carr was great in that all of his novels had some pretty fun plots to go with the mysteries. This plot is delightful to read, and the writing style Carr uses here is sort of like "Princess Bride as a murder mystery" if that makes sense.

4)He Who Whispers by John Dickson Carr

This one, unlike the other three, is pretty hard to solve. It has a very creepy supernatural atmosphere and offers impossible crime after impossible crime, eventually asking the main character(and the reader) whether the culprit is supernatural or not. It's basically what Umineko tried to be, but much better. This is a novel I'd recommend for beginners because even if they "lose" they'll have an amazing experience and they'll be motivated to try harder next time to solve the puzzle.

...Holy s*** I ramble too much. But uh, in case you are wondering how good John Dickson Carr is, there's a reason why his biography is titled "John Dickson Carr: The Man Who Could Explain Miracles."

While we're on the subject of mystery stories, which of your games do you have archived, Haguile? It'd be great to read them again.

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I think I'll go in the order that you posted the books in. Thanks <3
From: Haguile | #010
The other 20 chapters involve the detective being a dick to the district attorney and refusing to tell him the solution.
Also, this sounds hilarious.

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From: Raka_Putra | #012
While we're on the subject of mystery stories, which of your games do you have archived, Haguile? It'd be great to read them again.
I have...most of them. "Youknowwhatfaqs" has the last Dangan game archived too, so there's that.

From: shadosneko | #013
I think I'll go in the order that you posted the books in. Thanks <3From: Haguile | #010
The other 20 chapters involve the detective being a dick to the district attorney and refusing to tell him the solution.
Also, this sounds hilarious.
It is hilarious. The detective's name is Philo Vance and you either hate him or love him. He's a complete dick. I personally love those novels, even though they are pretty flawed.

Favorite of mine would be Hard Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World by Haruki Murakami. Not a mystery in the traditional sense per say, but essentially it's two vastly different stories and in each story you have the main character trying to figure out what the f*** is going on. One story involves a man finding himself shuffling (encrypting...) data for a man who knows how to eliminate sound and soon everyone is after him and he has to figure out what was so important about the data. The second story involves a man waking up with no memories in a gated town where he is assigned the task of dream reader, his shadow is ripped from him, and no one is allowed leaving the town or changing their task. Essentially he has to figure out what's going on with the town, the significance of his shadow, etc.

Very surreal stuff, but it may be my favorite book.

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Where can I read the Umineko game?

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Tell No One

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From: Raka_Putra | #016
Where can I read the Umineko game?
I have this archived actually

also tag

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Hotel Dusk

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My oh my.
Tag.

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I'd appreciate the link.

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Oh, I am one yet many.

I mean I have copies on my HD

pretty sure haguile had it on a website back in the day, though idk what the status on that would be

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From: AppIekidjosh | #022
I mean I have copies on my HD

pretty sure haguile had it on a website back in the day, though idk what the status on that would be
Status: Went to hell some time ago. I also have a copy somewhere though, so I can eventually upload it too.

Tag, relevant to my interests

And if you don't mind a minor hijack, I've read Murder on the Orient Express and And Then There Were None, where should I go next?

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Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!

That's cool.

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Oh, I am one yet many.

From: OctilIery | #024
Tag, relevant to my interests

And if you don't mind a minor hijack, I've read Murder on the Orient Express and And Then There Were None, where should I go next?
That depends. Do you want to stay with Christie novels or move on to other writers with similar style?

Haguile posted...

From: OctilIery | #024
Tag, relevant to my interests

And if you don't mind a minor hijack, I've read Murder on the Orient Express and And Then There Were None, where should I go next?
That depends. Do you want to stay with Christie novels or move on to other writers with similar style?

Either is good, there is plenty of ground to cover :)

I DO like the more suspenseful mysteries, but most of what I've been suggested was a big letdown on the mystery part, either because it was really simple or it was really obtuse(IE, not something the reader is really meant to solve).

I did read and love Falling Angel, though :)

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Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!

tag

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From: OctilIery | #027
Haguile posted...

From: OctilIery | #024
Tag, relevant to my interests

And if you don't mind a minor hijack, I've read Murder on the Orient Express and And Then There Were None, where should I go next?
That depends. Do you want to stay with Christie novels or move on to other writers with similar style?

Either is good, there is plenty of ground to cover :)

I DO like the more suspenseful mysteries, but most of what I've been suggested was a big letdown on the mystery part, either because it was really simple or it was really obtuse(IE, not something the reader is really meant to solve).

I did read and love Falling Angel, though :)
Okay so I'm gonna make a few recommendations assuming you want a good mystery that has a good, suspenseful atmosphere.

The absolute best writer for that is John Dickson Carr. He was referred to by his biographer as "The man who could explain miracles" because he wrote amazing locked room puzzles. He also penned an essay called "The Grandest Game in the World" where he explains that he considers the genre to be a duel between author and reader and thinks that a good mystery novel must be meant to be solved. So you know he's great at both being fair and puzzles.

So here's my Carr recommendations:

He Who Whispers--Very suspenseful, very fair, very clever.
Problem of the Green Capsule--Not very suspenseful, very fair, very clever.
Plague Court Murders--Mildly suspenseful, very fair, clever.
Three Coffins/Hollow Man--Very suspenseful, fair(there's one or two things that wouldn't be classified as fair but it's still very well plotted and mostly fair), very clever.

As for Christie books, I think you could do well with "Death on the Nile" which is very clever but far from suspenseful. Christie just wasn't too good with suspense.

I may look at some of these suggestions but knowing me, I say I will but I won't

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From: Haguile | #010

4)He Who Whispers by John Dickson Carr

This one, unlike the other three, is pretty hard to solve. It has a very creepy supernatural atmosphere and offers impossible crime after impossible crime, eventually asking the main character(and the reader) whether the culprit is supernatural or not. It's basically what Umineko tried to be, but much better. This is a novel I'd recommend for beginners because even if they "lose" they'll have an amazing experience and they'll be motivated to try harder next time to solve the puzzle.

Heh. Was gonna hijack the title to ask you what the one book you recommended where it presents the possibility the culprit was supernatural. And now I don't have to.

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From: SemiFinal vs Belarus | #031
From: Haguile | #010

4)He Who Whispers by John Dickson Carr

This one, unlike the other three, is pretty hard to solve. It has a very creepy supernatural atmosphere and offers impossible crime after impossible crime, eventually asking the main character(and the reader) whether the culprit is supernatural or not. It's basically what Umineko tried to be, but much better. This is a novel I'd recommend for beginners because even if they "lose" they'll have an amazing experience and they'll be motivated to try harder next time to solve the puzzle.

Heh. Was gonna hijack the title to ask you what the one book you recommended where it presents the possibility the culprit was supernatural. And now I don't have to.
It's not just that novel, John Dickson Carr did that a lot. But that novel is a great example of that, so I definitely recommend that! Read it! It will be...uh good research for the Dangan game!

Here's a short excerpt from the novel:

"Then it's fairly obvious, isn't it? You told us a while ago that one of the battlements round the parapet, on the side facing the river, had crumbling pieces of rock broken off as though someone's fingers had clawed at them in climbing up. The murderer must have come from the river-side."
"Consider," said Professor Rigaud in a persuasive voice, "the difficulties of such a theory."
"What difficulties?"
The other checked them off on his forefinger, tapping again.
"No boat approached the tower, or it would have been seen. The stone of that tower, forty feet high, was as smooth as wet fish. The lowest window(as measured by the police) was fully twenty-five feet above the surface of the water. How does yout murderer scale the wall, kill Mr. Brooke, and get down again?"
There was a long silence.
"But, hang it all, the thing was done!" protested Miles. "You're not going to tell me this crime was committed by a..."
"By a what?"

I got 7 of those books! Currently reading them right now.

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Rank 9, Dr. Peace? Pffft, nothing compared to Rank 1, Dr_Football!
when thinking of Krystal, does GMUN's pants get overcrowded? ~ GMUN

Nice! What books did you get?

Isaac Asimov - The Naked Sun
Agatha Christie - And Then There Were None
Agatha Christie - Black Coffee
Agatha Christie - Cat Among the Pigeons
John Dickson Carr - The Three Coffins

And I got two kind of mystery novel encyclopedia-like books that another site recommended: H. Douglas Thomson - Masters of Mystery and Francis M. Nevins - The Mystery Writer's Art. I also got the .pdf of The Benson Murder Case. I'm currently reading through The Naked Sun and it's pretty damn good.

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Rank 9, Dr. Peace? Pffft, nothing compared to Rank 1, Dr_Football!
when thinking of Krystal, does GMUN's pants get overcrowded? ~ GMUN

Yay. Please keep us updated of your impressions.

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Oh, I am one yet many.

I read a little bit of the Benson Murder Case

I want to keep reading, but I forget that I'm in the middle of reading it until it's too late for me to want to read any more of it.

I'll finish it eventually.

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Tell No One by Harlan Coben

He's written a ton of other mystery-thrillers but that one's probably the best. And they are all a little samey after a while so you might as well start with the best one.

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But Dauntless Hunter is now MrGreenonion

I definitely will read some of these...posting so I don't forget.

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From: SSBM_Guy | #035
Isaac Asimov - The Naked Sun
Agatha Christie - And Then There Were None
Agatha Christie - Black Coffee
Agatha Christie - Cat Among the Pigeons
John Dickson Carr - The Three Coffins

And I got two kind of mystery novel encyclopedia-like books that another site recommended: H. Douglas Thomson - Masters of Mystery and Francis M. Nevins - The Mystery Writer's Art. I also got the .pdf of The Benson Murder Case. I'm currently reading through The Naked Sun and it's pretty damn good.
Awww yeah. I've read Masters of Mystery and while it's good, be careful. If I recall correctly there are tons of spoilers here and there. It's a bit of a study of mystery history citing the Golden Age/Harboiled history and how the genre evolved, and citing some books as stop points in the genre generally brings some spoilers. It's pretty well written, though it has a mistake or two.
...You know when you spend far too much time in a hobby when you can tell that an analysis book is incorrect.

Uh any case, don't have Mystery Writer's Art so let me know what you think of it. The Three Coffins is by far my favorite of the ones you cited above.

From: shadosneko | #037
I read a little bit of the Benson Murder Case

I want to keep reading, but I forget that I'm in the middle of reading it until it's too late for me to want to read any more of it.

I'll finish it eventually.
Aw yeah. A funny thing about Benson/Van Dine novels is how Vance is more well liked by younger(25 or younger) readers than older readers. This is probably because this generation has a bit more of a liking towards dicks, and Vance is the ultimate dick.

Keep us updated on what you are thinking of the story so far.

Also if anybody cares I'll do some trivia explaining why Van Dine novels are so important to the mystery genre.

From: MrGreenonion | #038
Tell No One by Harlan Coben

He's written a ton of other mystery-thrillers but that one's probably the best. And they are all a little samey after a while so you might as well start with the best one.
Never read this one. How good is his plotting? Is it the "fair" kind or the "SURPRISE" at you kind? I'm cool with either way, though I have a preference for the former.