Jericho: I lost clean to you at Wrestlemania, but I splashed beer all over you, yay I'm now the #1 contender.
--
Dr voltchball - best in the world.
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voltch 04/21/12 12:09:00 PM #301: |
Jericho: I lost clean to you at Wrestlemania, but I splashed beer all over you, yay I'm now the #1 contender.
-- Dr voltchball - best in the world. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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mccheyne 04/21/12 12:10:00 PM #302: |
Jesus **** that spider is huge!
-- Not changing this sig until the Winnipeg Blue Bombers win the grey cup. Started Aug. 16/04 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 04/21/12 12:39:00 PM #303: |
From: Panthera | #286 Ridiculous or not, ask every heel who was an accidental face in the WCW how that one worked out. Oh wait you cant. because none of them ever got pushed again. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png The one and only Underdog Millionaire and UCA CORPORATE Champion ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Lopen 04/21/12 12:41:00 PM #304: |
Well I can't because I have no idea who they even are.
-- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Wanglicious 04/21/12 12:45:00 PM #305: |
if management has a problem with it then yes, it's a problem for the wrestler. good management however would see it as an opportunity. in this regard, ROH has solid booking because they have people that understand that and try to do things to make it work out. of course not all the time - ROH crowds are smarky 100% of the time and extremely fickle. the idea just isn't wasted on them to take advantage of a solid opportunity which the crowd gives you.
it helps that dragon sells merch now. -- The King Wang. Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 04/21/12 12:48:00 PM #306: |
From: Rad Link 5 | #271 This right here. This post. Is why you and I will never ever agree about wrestling. There IS something wrong with it. It ruins the show. It makes literally every person involved look bad, including Bryan. Yes wrestling is fake- at this point EVERYONE KNOWS THAT, But presuming you don't think that wrestling is completely without merit because its fake (those people are long gone), then you have to concede that people who go to shows to wilfully mess things up are being enormous tools. You cheer for the faces, you boo the heels. To do the opposite is destructive. To insert YES and We Want Ryder in random segments is too but that has NOTHING on betraying the way the show works on purpose unless you just HATE the WWE. In which case, why spend money to go to it. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png The one and only Underdog Millionaire and UCA CORPORATE Champion ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 04/21/12 12:50:00 PM #307: |
From: Lopen | #304 Well I'm thinking of Curt Hennig getting over as a country western singer who was supposed to be a heel and of Mike Awesome who was so over for ECW work as a face that his heel character got cheered. So they repackaged him as the ridiculous That 70s Guy as a punishment, just off the top of my head. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png The one and only Underdog Millionaire and UCA CORPORATE Champion ... Copied to Clipboard!
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MrGreenonion 04/21/12 12:51:00 PM #308: |
Hey guys, don't forget! Undertaker vs Triple H, Hell in a Cell, TONIGHT!
-- SuperNiceDog didn't have to reconcile his name... But Dauntless Hunter is now MrGreenonion ... Copied to Clipboard!
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XIII_rocks 04/21/12 12:57:00 PM #309: |
Wait, so eddv, if I went to a WWE show and cheered Cody because he is The Greatest Boss™, that's destructive and anti-WWE?
-- "My goal is to make this s*** cool again." - CM Punk ... Copied to Clipboard!
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JaKyL25 04/21/12 1:02:00 PM #310: |
The logical thing to do when a crowd desperately wants to cheer someone no matter what is to turn them face. I don't think "You can't turn him face because he abuses AJ psychologically" is that big of a hurdle. Wrestling has short memories about that kind of stuff. Heck, Kane once forced Lita to bear his demon seed via coercion, and he later turned face...and heel...and face...and heel...etc.
The bigger issue is that WWE HATES it when people don't react the way they tell them to, so on that front the constant support of Bryan despite their damnedest attempts to keep him as a heel COULD end up Ryder-izing him eventually. A legitimate concern, although they're clearly higher on him than Ryder to begin with, so I don't think he'd ever fall below Ziggler level really ever again. On an unrelated topic, Punk was doing a YES/NO Q&A on Twitter, and someone asked "Would you like to wrestle AJ Styles" to which he replied NO. I wonder what that's all about. -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/photo_large/public/photo/image/2012/04/33_Moscow_04112012jg_02128.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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voltch 04/21/12 1:04:00 PM #311: |
Punk's afraid AJ Styles would show him up.
-- Dr voltchball - best in the world. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Wanglicious 04/21/12 1:06:00 PM #312: |
maybe punk just hates feuding with people who suck on the mic
-- The King Wang. Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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JaKyL25 04/21/12 1:06:00 PM #313: |
One way to explain it would be to say that since Styles is clearly a TNA lifer, "wrestling AJ Styles" would mean "Going to TNA" which is definitely not something Punk is interested in doing ever again, but without any such context it almost feels like there's bad blood there or something.
On the flipside, he said he would love to wrestle Sid. -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/photo_large/public/photo/image/2012/04/33_Moscow_04112012jg_02128.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Panthera 04/21/12 1:06:00 PM #314: |
From: Jakyl25 | #310 Yeah seriously, it's not like it would be hard to either tone down stuff with AJ or just have their relationship become like the New Nexus and be an official thing that just stops being shown on screen until a few months later you suddenly wonder when it actually ended because you don't know for sure. People have done way, way worse **** than be a jackass to AJ and had it not matter a week or two later. -- Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 04/21/12 1:06:00 PM #315: |
From: XIII_rocks | #309 It is. I understand the "But I want to cheer the good workers." sentiment. Over on Grantland the Masked man talks about it all the time and accepts that that's just how things work. But Wrestling is literally built on having good guys and bad guys and the crowd reacting appropriately. If WWE gave the "fans" what they wanted 100% of the time- lets say Punk vs. bryan two guys the smarks love to death and the fans cheered both and saw both as the good guys, it wouldn't work that well. At the very least, WWE style wouldn't work.The measure of a good wrestler in this style in terms of reaction is both getting one and getting the intended one. If you want to support Cody Rhodes and the recent actions he has taken as a heel then boo him to reward his hard work. Cheering him does no one any favors. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png The one and only Underdog Millionaire and UCA CORPORATE Champion ... Copied to Clipboard!
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voltch 04/21/12 1:07:00 PM #316: |
Go AJ Styles!
-- Dr voltchball - best in the world. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 04/21/12 1:08:00 PM #317: |
From: Jakyl25 | #313 Oh dear god. Somebody make this happen! -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png The one and only Underdog Millionaire and UCA CORPORATE Champion ... Copied to Clipboard!
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voltch 04/21/12 1:09:00 PM #318: |
C/D: Sid's so far had a more succesful kayfabe career than Punk.
-- Dr voltchball - best in the world. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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JaKyL25 04/21/12 1:11:00 PM #319: |
D
Punk's ahead of Sid in World Titles and days as World Champion, and Punk also dominates Sid when it comes to secondary/tag titles. Sid main-evented 2 WMs to Punk's 0 though, which is really the only major point in his favor. -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/photo_large/public/photo/image/2012/04/33_Moscow_04112012jg_02128.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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voltch 04/21/12 1:13:00 PM #320: |
Not just any main events, Main events again Hogan and Undertaker!
And he kicked out of Prime Hogan's legdrop, anyone can kickout of the AA, how many people kicked out of prime Hogan's super legdrop of doom. -- Dr voltchball - best in the world. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 04/21/12 1:13:00 PM #321: |
From: voltch | #318 Well uh. lets see. Sid has two WCW titles, one of which was earned via beating pretty much every heel on the roster and two WWF titles- one earned by beating top of his games Shawn Michaels and the other by beating Bret Hart from the same period. Pretty impressive. Punk so far has two Cash-in reigns, one short reign he got by beating jeff Hardy, and two pretty impressive WWE title reigns. Based on just world titles theyre about even. But Sid also had a long stint in early WCW where he was roughly as dominant as RoH CM Punk, but old WCW was probably a more competitive show, so i think Sid edges him out kayfabewise. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png The one and only Underdog Millionaire and UCA CORPORATE Champion ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 04/21/12 1:15:00 PM #322: |
From: voltch | #320 I think the list is Sid and Taker.... Maybe Savage. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png The one and only Underdog Millionaire and UCA CORPORATE Champion ... Copied to Clipboard!
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JaKyL25 04/21/12 1:15:00 PM #323: |
Warrior didn't KICK OUT of it, but he did survive it thanks to ref bump.
-- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/photo_large/public/photo/image/2012/04/33_Moscow_04112012jg_02128.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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JaKyL25 04/21/12 1:16:00 PM #324: |
Also I admit that my analysis may be biased, because up until about 2002, Sid was my least-favorite wrestler.
-- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/photo_large/public/photo/image/2012/04/33_Moscow_04112012jg_02128.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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voltch 04/21/12 1:19:00 PM #325: |
Sid had like the cleanest kickout possible.
-- Dr voltchball - best in the world. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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XIII_rocks 04/21/12 1:19:00 PM #326: |
From: edwardsdv | #315 Perhaps the problem lies with the faces for being inferior alternatives. They are not good enough to earn my cheers over Cody. Only face I'd cheer against Cody right now is probably Punk. It's the job of the faces to be entertaining and to make me want to root for them over the heel, is it not? Why should I cheer Cena over Cody, for example? Why should I cheer Cena over Christian? Better yet, why should I cheer The Big Show over Wade? It's not even just about being a good wrestler, Cody is solid gold on the mic and with his mannerisms and gets me on his side with the stuff he says and does. He would make me cheer in a way Cena, Orton et all cannot. -- "I am the best in the world at everything I do, and I don't have to write it on the back of a T-Shirt to prove it, because I AM it." - Chris Jericho ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 04/21/12 1:19:00 PM #327: |
Did you just not watch late WCW?
Thats honestly the source of most of my fandom for the guy. Week in and week out, the show could be crap but if SID was coming out you were gonna be in for some of the best promos, intentional or not. And his wrestling was honestly pretty passable. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png The one and only Underdog Millionaire and UCA CORPORATE Champion ... Copied to Clipboard!
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voltch 04/21/12 1:20:00 PM #328: |
Also amongst Sid's kayfabe landmarks was putting HBK on the sidelines for a longass time!
-- Dr voltchball - best in the world. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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voltch 04/21/12 1:21:00 PM #329: |
Sid doesn't wrestle well against big guys at all though, stuff against Diesel, Hogan or Taker was very not fun to watch.
Bouts against smaller sized guys were nothing matches, not like awful but not omg I need to DVR it either. -- Dr voltchball - best in the world. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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JaKyL25 04/21/12 1:21:00 PM #330: |
The way I look at it is that Booing Cody is Supporting Cody.
You don't have to actively cheer Big Show if you don't care for him, but if you dig what Cody's doing in his role, the proper response is to jeer. Wrestling's more fun if you play along! For some reason CHIKARA audiences are like the only ones who really get that. -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/photo_large/public/photo/image/2012/04/33_Moscow_04112012jg_02128.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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JaKyL25 04/21/12 1:23:00 PM #331: |
From: edwardsdv | #327 The Sid-as-World-Champ era of WCW was nigh untolerable for me. You know the booking is bad when the solution is to Rehire Russo. -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/photo_large/public/photo/image/2012/04/33_Moscow_04112012jg_02128.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DeathChicken 04/21/12 1:24:00 PM #332: |
The end of this match rivals Punk's entire career -- We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 04/21/12 1:24:00 PM #333: |
From: voltch | #325 Presuming that Savage never did ( i honestly cant remember) then Sid is the only one to kick out of it not powered in kayfabe by magic. From: XIII_rocks | #326 I am willing to concede that to an extent. If we had more compelling faces this would not be as much of an issue. I disagree with you about Cena (shocker i know), but after him and Orton and Punk and Truth the rest of the faces are pretty flat and one dimensional until you get to Santino( who honestly they need to slowly jettison the jokiness of his working style from him and let him be a goofy, yet legit face. Basically he need a new finisher). But I'm not getting the impression that even against other people they loved if people who are currently cheering heels would cheer just the faces. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png The one and only Underdog Millionaire and UCA CORPORATE Champion ... Copied to Clipboard!
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XIII_rocks 04/21/12 1:24:00 PM #334: |
You're right in that more heat = better heel. I can't disagree with that.
The counterargument is that more entertaining = louder cheers. Honestly it's hard to take most heels seriously as EVIL BAD GUYS, especially somebody like Cody who is just kind of a cocky douchebag (like I said, Jericho is the only one who fits this description right now, and that is why he is the best), so when he does stuff like take out Khali - a wrestler I dislike - he earns a cheer from me for sure. It's entertaining. -- "oh my god oh my god a spider just crawled INTO MY KEYBOARD" -pxlated "It just wants some web access." - Ness26 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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voltch 04/21/12 1:24:00 PM #335: |
ECW fans loved Sid.
go figure. -- Dr voltchball - best in the world. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 04/21/12 1:27:00 PM #336: |
From: voltch | #329 When he was young and flexible he could do some pretty interesting stuff with younger guys. Again nothing ***** but still good. And I personally loved the Sid as world champ days.....Well sids portion of them. There was some other terrible stuff going on too. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png The one and only Underdog Millionaire and UCA CORPORATE Champion ... Copied to Clipboard!
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JaKyL25 04/21/12 1:29:00 PM #337: |
From: XIII_rocks | #334 I concede that a lot of fans think this way, and it makes me wonder what guys like Ted DiBiase Sr. would do had they been confronted with today's audiences. I mean, telling a kid he can have $500 if he can dribble a basketball for 1 minute and then kicking it away at the 55 second mark isn't PURE EVIL but it sure is awesomely dickish, but I feel like today's crowd would start loving that sort of stuff and it would hurt the character. -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/photo_large/public/photo/image/2012/04/33_Moscow_04112012jg_02128.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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voltch 04/21/12 1:29:00 PM #338: |
From: edwardsdv | #336 Looking at his Wiki, Sid has a ***** match on his resume. -- Dr voltchball - best in the world. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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XIII_rocks 04/21/12 1:30:00 PM #339: |
If we had more compelling faces this would not be as much of an issue. I disagree with you about Cena (shocker i know), but after him and Orton and Punk and Truth the rest of the faces are pretty flat and one dimensional until you get to Santino (who honestly they need to slowly jettison the jokiness of his working style from him and let him be a goofy, yet legit face. Basically he needs a new finisher).
But I'm not getting the impression that even against other people they loved if people who are currently cheering heels would cheer just the faces. I don't dislike Cena all that much either. He's just kind of "oh". Christian? More entertaining. Cody? Way more entertaining. And I do think if you had better faces this would happen less. Not necessarily with Bryan but Bryan is a special case - with the enormous smark following, a catchphrase that has caught on like wildfire and stuff. He's kind of a perfect storm of things to make people cheer for him. But would it happen less on the whole? I think so. -- http://i.imgur.com/LjoWT.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
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voltch 04/21/12 1:32:00 PM #340: |
People booed Austin when he was crazy awesome heel.
-- Dr voltchball - best in the world. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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JaKyL25 04/21/12 1:32:00 PM #341: |
Which time, 1996 or 2001?
-- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/photo_large/public/photo/image/2012/04/33_Moscow_04112012jg_02128.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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voltch 04/21/12 1:33:00 PM #342: |
01.
People cheered for Taker/Jericho/Benoit/Angle against him, at least on PPV. -- Dr voltchball - best in the world. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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XIII_rocks 04/21/12 1:34:00 PM #343: |
From: Jakyl25 | #337 They might well do to be honest. Times have changed. Being a petty dick for the sake of being a petty dick is kind of funny in a dark sort of way these days. What Jericho is doing right now suits today's audiences a little better. It's deeper, smarter, more psychologically damaging. With all that said, when Miz took the "best reaction" slammy off Miz Girl in 2010 didn't he get pretty loudly booed for that? That seems kind of comparable, even though it's not the same thing. -- "I wish I was French." - blindhobo13 "I don't think you know what "French" means." - As I Desire ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 04/21/12 1:35:00 PM #344: |
I think Cena suffers for fans seeing him every single week.
He really is a pretty special worker and even when i didnt like him as much, I would find myself cheering for him during matches without realizing it. If more faces could do that, this whole conversation would be pointless. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png The one and only Underdog Millionaire and UCA CORPORATE Champion ... Copied to Clipboard!
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JaKyL25 04/21/12 1:35:00 PM #345: |
And the oddest thing about that whole Slammy ordeal is that Miz Girl became a huge fan of The Miz. <_<
-- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/photo_large/public/photo/image/2012/04/33_Moscow_04112012jg_02128.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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voltch 04/21/12 1:37:00 PM #346: |
I still don't like RoH crowds when they're too smarky.
-- Dr voltchball - best in the world. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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JaKyL25 04/21/12 1:38:00 PM #347: |
Hogan sez:
"Getting my head really wrapped around the fan business requests and how to transition Impact Wrestling beyond the Mania, attitude era, nwo era," Hogan tweeted. "Not just grow in a black beard or just switch a title or just verbally say were changing." He added, "I'm talking about really changing to foundation to put Wrestling in a whole new era. I know I came up with the idea, I'm gonna really flush it out before I drop the bomb on you." Godspeed, Huckster -- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/photo_large/public/photo/image/2012/04/33_Moscow_04112012jg_02128.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Panthera 04/21/12 1:38:00 PM #348: |
The whole problem with the "must boo the heel" mindset is that the heel in question is often the more entertaining person. It simply feels very weird and stupid to go to an event to *not* cheer for the guy you like; I don't know that I'd really feel right doing so, and I probably wouldn't be able to enjoy the show much at all if I knew I was just cheering for people based on what the story dictates instead of based on whether I find the person involved worth cheering for.
-- Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 04/21/12 1:39:00 PM #349: |
From: XIII_rocks | #343 Using my marky brother(not eaed) as a gauge, I'm not sure about Jericho. There are a lot of people who dont "get it" and there are a lot of people who just think its kind of boring. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png The one and only Underdog Millionaire and UCA CORPORATE Champion ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 04/21/12 1:40:00 PM #350: |
From: Panthera | #348 Then Dont cheer the faces. Just boo the heels. -- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png The one and only Underdog Millionaire and UCA CORPORATE Champion ... Copied to Clipboard!
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