Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 164: The Darkside of Hulkamania is back!

(+) Yeah! (+)

From: MartinFF7 | #148
Wait, did the Raw ratings breakdown get posted and I miss it? What post numbers, this topic or last one? (too much effort to look it up...)

So those TNA ratings... people leave in droves due to the Knockouts match and never return?

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/61616991/686541039

--
Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg

Brett Daniels, who does media for the Dallas Cowboys, has denied that WrestleMania 29 or 30 will take place at Cowboys stadium. Daniels told the Dallas Observer, "We can't host WrestleMania the next two years because of NCAA Regional in '13 and Final Four in '14. We've talked with them and gave it a shot but couldn't make the schedule work."

That sucks, I hope they can land WM 31 there. Such an awesome venue.

--
Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg

we need more AJ at ringside

--
http://i.imgur.com/pRjIr.png
http://www.yourgamercards.net/trophy/a/CaptainRockman.png

YOU ARE A BASTARD!

--
Xbox GT: PrivateBiscuit1
Down with Zhang. Let there be Biscuit!

looks like big bossman was right about big show all those years ago

--
"Oh God, maplejet's trying to be cool again. I'll call the ambulance." - Wylvane
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

That was actually surprisingly better than I thought it would be. Kudos on the way WWE did it.

--
Xbox GT: PrivateBiscuit1
Down with Zhang. Let there be Biscuit!

i didn't even know i had a life goal of
"Bryan Danielson talks down Big Show, calls him a bastard, and makes him cry."

but it was fulfilled.
dragon didn't look half bad either in the match either. yeah, show is stronger and yeah, dragon hit him with a chair a good 20 times, but he took what show had to offer pretty damn well. and the AJ incident had him looking in pretty perfect condition despite all that.


am looking forward to this strange heel turn. and hoping desperately that AJ getting hurt wasn't part of the plan but is just an accident to fuel him into damn near murdering show.

--
The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

Coffee Ninja posted...


The Rock gets more pie in ONE NIGHT than this boy will get in A LITETIME.

That Smackdown was the worst in months. Almost the whole thing was clips and 1 minute squash matches.

Like seriously I think Natalya vs Tamina and Brodus vs Charlie Brown had literally 2 offensive moves in them.

--
No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

On the other hand...

YOU ARE A BASTARD!

--
Xbox GT: PrivateBiscuit1
Down with Zhang. Let there be Biscuit!

i know brodus did. running headbutt -> squash him on a jump to squash him for the match. brodus spent more time on his exit than the match.

--
The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

Yeah I didn't really care for that finish either. I guarantee you if that was on TNA people would be roasting the hell out of it too. You know it's bad when the audience is chanting "she's okay! she's okay!"

--
No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

I think they chanted that because Big Show was crying.

And I don't see why it was a bad finish given how the feud has been, and the direction it could go now. It was a very well done finish that actually made me feel for both guys and become legitimately intrigued what they'll do next.

--
Xbox GT: PrivateBiscuit1
Down with Zhang. Let there be Biscuit!

and while dragon's lines were the best, one cannot forget Cody.

"Folks, I am going to pull an Ultimate Warrior."
*pause*
"...that can mean many things, but..."


just love how even HE seemed to think 'okay wait a minute i'm not sure this is the right way to go...' for just the briefest of moments.

--
The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

I think they were chanting it because they wanted the match to continue, personally.

I think Bryan winning by abusing the chair to hell and back would've been a better finish than that.
Hell Bryan losing cleanly would've been better too.

Seriously that's a TNA style finish through and through there.

--
No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

the finish sucked in that neither lost, but dragon did not look like crap in it, which was great. they've downplayed him a lot, but now he has an actual reason to go nuts, to be angry, a total dick - it's much, MUCH better than your old 'guy got belt now he doesn't want to lose it' storyline. those suck. which is why i really h ope this direction isn't 'dragon knew aj would be there and suckered show into it' because i hate that kind of story. it's cheap and lame. it being 'he's a bit of a dick and yeah, was enjoying the belt, but now he's actually pissed off and doesn't give a damn' is a huge jump in character and really is much more in line with his actual wrestling style.

if they go that way. it's clear they're turning him, but the tragic hero who becomes a villain isn't used enough in wrestling, and it's pretty perfectly set up for it, and more importantly, that guy does not lose credibility in his matches. he will fight legit balls out, which is another reason why it suits him. it builds to him as a character and builds up a fanbase well, without sending him back down to the midcard at that.

story just also is set up for 'I WAS USING HER HAHA.' that guy gets killed for 5 minutes straight (see: Edge).

--
The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

Non-finishes on free TV are fine. I had no problem with the non-finish on Impact this week, and no problem with this one.

It's PPV where I roast both companies on it.

--
Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg

Haven't watched SD yet, but I'd just like to say that one of the funniest wrestling cliches is when the face thinks he's finally outsmarted the heel by getting him booked in a no DQ match. Because lord knows there aren't any ways that a heel can take advantage of THAT situation!

--
SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/

Yeah except they are going the way that it was a setup. And AJ's in on it too. They practically told you this backstage. "Well... how much do you love me? Follow me."

--
No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

dragon losing cleanly is much worse than what we got. and mind you, in no dq no countout, it's a very hard thing there. dragon losing cleanly just cements he's a midcarder and has no hope to rise in the next couple years - that sucks. for better or worse, dragon winning by abusing no dq works out well, but if they want to protect both for what's really show/henry/dragon triple threat at the rumble? yeah.

if they also want to build character however, this is one of the more interesting twists they can do. he says he's a fighting champ, so i do think they're going the tragic hero route personally. the match either way was a setup match and did its job well.

--
The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

dragon saying that line is the biggest reason why i have that fear, yeah.
though if aj's in on it i do get to see heel aj and more aj on my screen. i can't complain on that either!


hoping it's just a false positive though. it doesn't work as well with the character he's built and worse, makes michael cole never shut up because he'd be right all along.

--
The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

From: JaKyL25 | #151
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/61616991/686541039

woah, thanks!

....complete collapse of viewship for Zack and Eve, aw man... <_<

--
I'll see you in Hell! (From Heaven!)

Heel AJ could be cool, yeah. Like if she went full in on his scheme that's kinda cool. If she just "did it to help Daniel but doesn't really want to do it oh no poor AJ" then it's incredibly lame. I'm pretty sure they're going that way, though <_<

If they do in fact go DANIEL BRYAN IS LIVID now or AJ IS A JEZEBEL then it's not the worst thing, I guess.

--
No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

that was the tire scene, so it's okay. they had a rise earlier on!

just don't have him change a tire ever again. hell, don't get him near a car unless somebody's face is going through it.

--
The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

yeah, i'm just hoping dragon actually just plain kills show next week in his rage. it helps build his credibility (which is needed - david vs. goliath doesn't work when even your announcing team unanimously agree he's screwed), the feud (which is needed - it needs to actually BE one instead of 'this guy is actually the placeholder champ for henry/show'), and gives his character something fresh that works with him style-wise (which means he gets to wrestle better and attract more attention/love and he gets to not be entirely stale personality-wise).

cowardly heel is just such a step down from that. ;_;

--
The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

What character has he built though?

Yeah, he never really cheated before, and was a face by virtue of fighting heels, but what do we KNOW about Daniel Bryan through his WWE exploits?

1.) He kicked John Cena in the head after assaulting masses of innocents with Nexus and spat on him because he thinks he's better than Cena.
2.) He treated NXT like a joke, like he was "better than this" despite The Miz in his own callous way raising legitimate points about Bryan's areas for improvement.
3.) He totally led the Bella Twins on even though he knew they were after him and he was off the market.

I don't think we have some sort of Cena-esque "well that guy could never believably turn out to be a scumbag" character here!

--
Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg

Yeah, there's always been a douchebag bubbling under the surface when it comes to DB...

--
SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/

And then there's Money in the Bank.

Yeah, he justified it after the fact by saying that Henry's assaults led him to change his opinion on Money in the Bank itself, that holding onto it until WM to achieve a lifelong dream was less of a priority than selfishly using it at the most opportune time...but the operative words there are after the fact.

Like, that's a legitimate change of heart to have...but a truly virtuous character would have warned everyone beforehand that the WM thing is now off, and now he WILL use it at the drop of a hat.

--
Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg

From: Wanglicious | #175
cowardly heel is just such a step down from that. ;_;

I wouldn't say he's being a cowardly heel. He's not ducking anyone, he just comes up with a Plan B.

He's more of an Edge-like character.

--
Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg

Edge did plenty of ducking <_<

--
SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/

if he turns into an edge-like character it'd suck horribly.
we also know that he considers himself a fighter - this is across everything he's done. from NXT, including how he was willing to fight Jericho Day 1, how he was willing to fight Henry time and time again, and what he says, not just now but even his shirts. snap or tap. everybody taps. it's not really sensible to turn that guy into 'OH WELL!' even with what you listed, point 1 and point 2 both say 'this man was willing to fight.'

like yes, he's able to be a jackass. that doesn't magically turn to into a jackass who tries to escape anything - that is not in line with his character. he's turning yeah, but the turn here shouldn't be 'IT WAS MY PLAN ALL ALONG' but 'you are a danger and i will remove you.' aka, the jackass who will also kick your teeth in and make you submit.


which is really what he's best at. it's his wrestling style, it's what he was in ROH, it's what he SHOULD be doing.

--
The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

Edge didn't shout "YES! YES! YES!" though.

--
Save My contests are awful, without exception. Timjab is an amazing user, the eeveelutions suck, mark sanchez is the best qb in the league, and it wasn't Brock.

Edge DID shout "WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!!" though!

--
SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/

Damn.

Back to the drawing board.

--
Save My contests are awful, without exception. Timjab is an amazing user, the eeveelutions suck, mark sanchez is the best qb in the league, and it wasn't Brock.

he should keep YES! YES! YES! regardless.
and stand on the table when they boo him.
especially when they boo him.


but really, even the hype around him thus far has all been 'this kid can really go in the ring,' and by his own statements as well as others, 'this kid is packing more self confidence than he has height.' the one trait that's consistent across everything he's done is that he's a fighter, not a cowardly heel (which is what Edge was, and why we appreciated the 5 minute beatdown). like it's not 'i run away from the face at all times! haha!' but 'i have... a plan.", which still is that archtype.

face -> tweening because he's being a dick -> heel because he goes over the line, packs a new aggressive streak, and is willing to take people out? hell yeah. makes him look legit, sound legit, and more importantly, BE legit.

(also cole would have to change his tune. probably.)

--
The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

And Wang mentioned David and Goliath, well that's exactly what this story is, not just physically but metaphorically too.

Bryan is in over his head. WAY in over his head. Of all the MitB winners that have ever cashed in, he was arguably the least "ready" for a title run in kayfabe. Yeah he was picking up wins here and there, but by and large he was losing to people left and right. He's a man against giants, and this isn't a fairy tale.

Unlike most Money in the Bank winners though, Bryan is prepared for this. He's seen the failures of Edge, of RVD, of CM Punk, of Jack Swagger, and of Alberto Del Rio on their cash-in reigns, and he refuses to let what happened to them happen to him. He knows that it may be a long time before another title opportunity comes his way when this one passes, if it ever does, so he's absolutely determined to cling to it for as long as humanly possible.

It's not that Daniel Bryan is a douchebag because he's inherently cruel. He's not Bully Ray, or Mark Henry. He acts this way because he HAS to. This is a desperate man doing desperate measures.

--
Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg

From: Wanglicious | #181
we also know that he considers himself a fighter - this is across everything he's done. from NXT, including how he was willing to fight Jericho Day 1, how he was willing to fight Henry time and time again, and what he says, not just now but even his shirts. snap or tap. everybody taps.

Of course. He fancies himself to be that sort of person, and in a neutral situation I would probably expect him to be as such.

This is no neutral situation though--this is the CHAMPIONSHIP.

A lot of people may SAY they would react a certain way when faced with the "underhanded personal success vs. righteous personal failure," but many people are never in that situation. Daniel Bryan is.

--
Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg

And Wang mentioned David and Goliath, well that's exactly what this story is, not just physically but metaphorically too.

I know you're a commie and all, but David was a face <_< And you know, he had GOD on his side and everything...

--
SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/

It's not that Daniel Bryan is a douchebag because he's inherently cruel. He's not Bully Ray, or Mark Henry. He acts this way because he HAS to. This is a desperate man doing desperate measures.

I wouldn't really say this, either.

He's not a "cruel" douchebag, he's a douchebag because it's fun. Kinda like heel Punk or heel HBK...

--
SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/

Well tonight's incident could definitely be construed as cruel.

--
Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg

"How much do you love me?"


I'm loving this D-Bry

--
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt37rzo2Jk1r4d7qpo11_r2_400.gif

From: SmartMuffin | #188
I know you're a commie and all, but David was a face <_< And you know, he had GOD on his side and everything...

David won with a foreign object.
EDIT: And if you count God, that's outside interference!

--
Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg

while a lot of that's true, there's two glaring problems.

1) you're putting your eggs of 'he's prepared' in the wrong basket. he's prepared not because of the failures he's seen, he's prepared because he's been wrestling for over a decade now. he's prepared because he's a damn good wrestler and will say it as many times as he needs to before he goes out there and proves it. has been thus far, has been his pitch thus far, both for this title run AND his wwe stay. he hasn't gone on record to saying that he can't win. he was fighting henry week after week TO get that belt even - he woulda stopped then! in his mind, though he's in the land of giants, he's got a slingshot that can fire rockets. you'd need to go back on this entirely for that.

2) it'd kill all the small guys in the near future. they already have a bad enough time to get far, but he'd effectively kill a lot of talent by being 'this guy.' you'd basically be admitting david can't beat goliath so don't even bother. i don't think wwe would purposefully DO that as... that's the initial impression and basically why he was pretty much buried by the announcing team today. you'd straight up kill his career.

--
The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

He's not a "cruel" douchebag, he's a douchebag because it's fun. Kinda like heel Punk or heel HBK...

this too.
though i'm hoping he'll be a fun douchebag + an ass kicking machine.

--
The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

See, during DB's first match with Big Show, I never got the impression that he was afraid or cowardly.

I always felt like he was like "Well, I tried everything I could do the normal way, but he's too much of a freak of nature. I better find another way!"

I mean, he had him in his finisher, nailed him with a bunch of moves. I didn't catch a lot of his match tonight, but I think he'd be fine if he actually busted his ass to beat Big Show normally before resorting to shenanigans.

--
Xbox GT: PrivateBiscuit1
Down with Zhang. Let there be Biscuit!

right. it's been his style all along - matches against henry? yeah. his match against show tonight, or last week? same deal. i mean there's an outside factor here and he's getting heat on it (rightfully so), but either he's totally playing it up or it's a false positive.

both ways, the guy's a fighter. i highly, highly doubt they'll ever change that about him because you can't really change his rise from the indies to wwe, and it'd be a huge mistake to abandon that aspect of his. he's top tier in the ring and will beat you down. this would basically be he turns heel because he's beating you down harder.

--
The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

or perhaps i'll use something he said on nxt to illustrate what i'm saying.



He's coming back.

--
The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

From: Wanglicious | #193
he's prepared not because of the failures he's seen,

I know, I just wanted to melodramatically close the book on Money in the Bank. <_<

Like, "We've seen what happens when these guys get the case and aren't ready for it. They cash in, get a brief reign, then fall back down to the midcard when it's over. Some rise again eventually, some don't and the reigns are looked upon as the flukes that they were. I'm here to change all that, no matter how many obstacles you throw in my way. My name is Daniel Bryan, I am the World Heavyweight Champion, and I do not deserve this. I need this title, Show. I need it more than anything that you could ever imagine. With all due respect."

Sorry, I just got a little possessed by one of my all-time favorite alignment turns in history.

Daniel Bryan, you are the wind beneath my ring.

--
Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg

From: PrivateBiscuit1 | #195
I mean, he had him in his finisher, nailed him with a bunch of moves. I didn't catch a lot of his match tonight, but I think he'd be fine if he actually busted his ass to beat Big Show normally before resorting to shenanigans.

Right, he's a fighter, he will TRY to win the match, and he has enough resolve to still be functional when he knows that it's a losing proposition.

That's when Plan B comes into effect. We saw it last week, and we saw it this week.

As WWE demonstrated with Christian last year, the title can change a man. When you've worked your entire career for this one, completely tangible goal, and then you finally GET there, and then someone threatens to take that AWAY from you? Sometimes morals go out the window.

It's the One Ring effect.

--
Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg

ah. see, i'm actually thinking/hoping they're trying to not bury the way mitb has been mostly done (see: not Kane and to an extent, not del rio) but instead it ends up being the catylst that starts with him not being at that level yet, but due to the way things turned, he reaches it because he's going to kill everyone who tries to take it away.

--
The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.