Lurker > banananor

MikeTavish posted...

What makes more sense though? (Assuming, of course, that I'm being honest about my role which even Ulti agrees I am and have been)

why or how does Ulti agree with your role again? i honestly don't remember. if it's literally just a gut feeling that's meaningless information

MikeTavish posted...

It's a damned if we do damned if we don't situation but I feel like we're less likely to be damned if we lynch ulti here because it eliminates the what-if scenario where he's scum regardless of his flip.

If we lynch me you all have to be left wondering about Ulti after I flip.

i feel like you're too experienced to be doing this

you think we won't be wondering about your alignment after Ulti flips?

banananor posted...

you're fearful of the scenario where the host is pranking you with a role where you intentionally die and merge with scum while still needing to win with town

*while the host is still being forthcoming about everything else related to your role.

ultimately, i'm more interested in hearing why plum and red (since apparently those two are the ones driving your thoughts) don't consider tavish ending up (through transformation or otherwise) scum-aligned a possibility

MikeTavish posted...

As far as me being honest about my role goes there is obviously nothing I can do to prove myself other than the fact that I've been trying my damndest to lead discussion for 2 straight day phases.

i'm ultimately not talking about you being deceptive, i'm talking about the host being deceptive

you're fearful of the scenario where the host is pranking you with a role where you intentionally die and merge with scum while still needing to win with town

i feel like we're twisting ourselves in knots to imagine a scenario where all of the following is true:

1) the independent tavish is being 100% accurate and forthcoming with their role,
2) the host is actively pranking the tavish by misleading them about their path to victory, and
3) only in one specific way

if we're opening the door to the host misleading tavish, why do we trust when the host says independent will stay town-aligned if he succeeds in the merge?

i think we have to stick with tavish's original logic, before he developed cold feet

while this doesn't exactly prove anything about alignment, it's pretty rational for tavish's "target" to be bulletproof. how much would it suck to have that role, and your target dies n1?

Isquen posted...

This is basically how I've been following the train of thought, whereas Ulti is being kind of a "oh screw you people" if he dies. So I'm going to claim my read, even if it's farfetched.

Ulti accidentally misgendered me (or intentionally to be a dick, since that's also on brand) at one point in one of the belittling posts by referring to me as a she. I am very much a male; however, my character is female, and then I started getting called "he" after I picked up on and called out the "wait a minute" moment.

Without revealing much more, that should also confirm *me* as town, as there's... what, two named Ascians at this point that are listed as female? I can think of a few fringe cases where it's not, but... yeah.

wait, isquen... you're saying you think ulti has a genderscan? and it confirms you as town? i feel like an idiot, but i don't understand the logic

the cagey part is that you won't mention what the deal is with zenos

how were you able to confirm ardbert?

this really would be the most obnoxious godfather setup of all time

i don't think the bulletproof aspect is much worth getting hung up on. people claim bulletproof when they don't want to die

i certainly hope a merged town character would be BP- we have to sacrifice a day vote and town-aligned role just for their shonen power-up process

the answer is always PC, but you've already invested in the consoles

i'd normally buy it for ps5, but you made a promise to your brother. it seems pretty straightforward to keep it

i wanna hear from isquen/EARTH SHAKER about whatever special thing he was mulling over on page 6 or 7

he apparently knows something about ulti we don't

is wont to do* lordy my brain is bad

red13n posted...

Elidibus kind of just body-snatches Ardbert to be the WoL

that's true. all of this is ascended metagaming, but i guess i read more into tavish's explicit wording of "merging souls", whereas elidibus inhabited ardbert's lifeless corpse as he is wont to due (the flavor kind of fits the janitor)

MikeTavish posted...

The WoL literally can't die. He just respawns at the start of the fight.

haurchefaunt dumbest man in the realm

i do think ulti being cagey about his flavor is unnerving

MikeTavish posted...

That said, I assume you're on the lynch me train too yeah? Any thoughts on the theory that Ulti is WoL elidibus?

as i stated earlier in the day (honestly surprised that you forgot), we have to vote for you in the off-chance that you're zenos, who has the flavor of doggedly pursuing the PC for a duel, murdering people until he's given that chance. he even possesses the PC's body for a short time.

to address your anxiety- if your role is actually Ardbert, i feel confident in the only WoL being the legit one. Lore-wise, the player character and Ardbert are specifically split copies of the same person (named "Azem") across multiple dimensions. They can't just merge with just any warrior of light, it has to be specifically someone with the same soul

Elidibus's soul is also very explicitly whole- not split in any way

Again, I can't put anything past a crazy mafia setup, but I'd consider it a huge stretch and maybe even a huge prank by ben to give you that role and not have a legit WoL

i'll cede to your judgment. i would have assumed that elidibus specifically might see 'warrior of light' as one of their titles

red13n posted...

Ok you are going to need to explain this deeper because...I think I understand what you are trying to say but I don't think this has the benefits you think it does.

yeah, fair question. here's what i wrote earlier:

banananor posted... i would have expected the drama of a day-disrupting ardbert build to be designed around scum contesting the title of WoL. however, everyone has posted and there have been no counter claims

tavish seems to think his stated role has no inherent risk or gameplay. assuming things are on the level, the gameplay and risk would be two players both claiming WoL and him choosing the wrong one

i'm genuinely surprised to see the votes so split at this point

MikeTavish posted...

That's what's bothering me, what kind of balance would have a role designed to target and lynch either themselves or town, and then win when town wins? Just doesn't make sense to me and I've been trying to piece together how it COULD make sense.

because scum is supposed to have some balls and not let town claim WoL uncontested. i stated this earlier in the topic

whatever player was assigned elidibus should be kicking themselves imho

i thought kabutops was the most badass thing i had ever seen when i was a kid, prior to even owning the game. if it hadn't been locked behind the safari zone i would have put it on my team for sure

as it stands, right now i think i like the rainbow dinosaur bird

KingButz posted...

I think they tried way too hard to match up their lines to the Japanese lip flaps and that results in a lot of awkward readings.

i agree. i've noticed this pattern in a decent number of japanese games, anime, and movies. awkwardly long pauses between statements, and characters repeating themselves in odd ways

i used to think it was purely a translation issue. but when i watch, say, korean stuff there's never that sort of problem. it almost feels like there's something specifically about japanese and english that doesn't match up very well. or they just aren't paying for the best localization teams

is ben really new? i was under the impression he had been part of the community a while

i did walk in expecting Emet-Selch, Elidibus, Lahabrea scum and Zenos SK. wasn't entirely sure if that was reasonable for a 13 player game

TidusOfTheX posted...

Lol derplander, haven't seen the WoL called that before

it's the common moniker the community has assigned to the "canonical" appearance of WoL they use on the game covers and promotional art- a boring male midlander

GenesisSaga posted...

The correct answer is lychee, but of these inferior options

i've never actually eaten lychee, only drunk them. i suppose i'll have to fix that

honestly, the player character of ffxiv has gone by the title "warrior of darkness" for an entire expansion before. i could see WoL being on the safelist, but with such disruptive abilities centered around them? that seems.... beyond

i can say this because it seems everyone has posted today- i would have expected the drama of a day-disrupting ardbert build to be designed around scum contesting the title of WoL. however, everyone has posted and there have been no counter claims

i do think we have to vote for tavish, in the off chance that he is zenos. zenos winning his duel against the derplander would be very bad

ulti, can you be upgraded more than once? you said your role didn't mention azem. did your role mention ardbert? or any other characters?

Isquen posted...

After all, you are confirmed as WoD as your role states (and banana is jumping in backing up)

not saying you meant this, but for the record, i'm not backing up anyone's role- from my knowledge of the game's plot i could tell what character tavish was alluding he would claim

i could envision scenarios where one or both was a safeclaim, or someone's a weird sk/jester/duelist variant. this is why we need to wait for ulti

it's hard to imagine a scum role having this much power over the day, though

on that note, i'm heading to sleep

i'm weirdly hyped

i think a 2d zelda will fit the studio well

DoomTheGyarados posted...

What if we just don't vote

assuming things are on the level (which isn't guaranteed and we will need to hedge), based on ben's wording i think we just lose a day, everything sucks, and then one or the other is nightkilled.

"For the remainder of the day you can only vote either Mike or Ulti. All other votes will not be counted."

red13n posted...

Also this was somehow the answer to my question about there being multiple WoLs.

yeah, when he neglected to answer your question was when i knew he was ardbert

yeah, we for sure need to wait for ulti to confirm exactly what he can. this is irritating timing

well, that's kind of messed up

MikeTavish posted...

I wish I asked you to tell me what you thought my flavour was before I posted, because I would be shocked if you were right.

you might not believe me, but i was going to leave some hints about you being WoL's [soul]mate. i just didn't want you to do the thing where you figured out what i was expecting and copied it

and we have to hope one or the other wasn't cleaned last night.

meta question- do b8 mafia janitors clean every night, or just once?

tavish, i can already tell what flavor you're going to claim- you should say it out loud for the rest of the audience

MikeTavish posted...

Ulti is confirmed town. I know because of my own role that the WoL is in this game somewhere and no one countered his claim.

duly noted- that's an interesting statement

masterplum posted...

Sigh, this isnt as fun as it used to be.

I realize now that the fact I spend 40 hours a week engaging in tactical rhetoric for my job kind of takes away a lot of the excitement of playing mafia.

it feels too much like work

what, you don't enjoy recreational gaslighting anymore?

ben, i'm a little disappointed that i now know who quin69 is

MikeTavish posted...

I'm a lot more suspicious of anyone who was against the Shonen lynch because I really think a lot of what he did was scummy as hell between the slip, his reaction to the slip, and his responses afterwards. I feel like the only way someone would consider him town was if they knew something the rest of us don't.

this mirrors a lot of my own thoughts, but i imagine there would be enough scum to spread their behavior around

UltimaterializerX posted...

Is your flavor Zenos by chance?

this pings my radar as scum hunting for sk a little bit

a lot of these are cool, but it's still kabuto by a mile

2/10. i was only able to stomach about 10 hours of it. supremely disappointing

the first time i played i completely failed the easy minigame to acquire the jecht shot, making that first game practically impossible

it said to click the buttons when the blue text boxes appeared, so when the text appeared without boxes, i thought i wasn't supposed to click...

in retrospect, that was the one thing i should have reloaded my save for, just for making the process of getting wakka's blitzball stuff easier

yes

i (and presumably everyone else) don't put much stake in day 1 gut feelings, but i could share mine. there's just not a lot to work with

i respect everyone's play- i'm not going to pretend i can see through them

chris is being supportive and ulti is being a pinball, and while i can't rule anything out i don't get a scum vibe from either. red seems pretty normal

i'm also not going to blame anyone like moon for hyper analyzing stuff

some of death's posts makes my brain feel like scrambled eggs, but i- for whatever reason- doubt scum would be so confident in saying a scumslip "didnt feel like enough reason to vote a man"

i could imagine tavish as scumteam with bat, but i could imagine a lot of things

(not that it matters, but i wrote this paragraph before reading the most recent page) isquen's probably on top of my suspicion list due to their avoidance of the main vote, but i still believe shonen is the correct play

Crescent-Moon posted...

Also there's a lot if people here I don't recognize

Did they come from somewhere else?

i don't know if you mean me. i don't spend a whole lot of time in mafia topics, but i've been on board 8 forever and ever. i suspect the theme (and a player drought) brought in some new faces

this seems pretty direct, right? a probable slip transitioning into a quiet sack of sand to avoid accidentally incriminating teammates

##vote: shonen_bat

i'd rather they talk, and i am open to alternative interpretations, but i won't put words in someone else's mouth

hi all

the extra vote required has me concerned. i feel like it reduces our chance of accurately lynching without info by a lot

sandslash is really cool, but how can it beat brown charmander wearing a skull?

Corphish is so stupid looking it's awesome. i think it's the herbivore eyes and super stubby arms