Lurker > PumpkinCoach

jyp figured out an audience that's underserved by kpop that's all

so jinni has resurfaced

https://instagram.com/jiniyxxn?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

ay-yo slaps

how long before it's just all hybe or kakao

paerarru posted...

Wow, Hyunseung is not (even close to) your #1

#1 in my heart, though.

And how come you like IVE so much?

eh, no real strong feeling about ive other than that starship gives them good songs. (tbh i almost included a naver now cam for my satisfaction on the playlist... but wonyoung's mugging to the camera kinda made the song worse so i just went with the track by itself lol)

Also, again thanks for helping keep Class:y relevant.

roty imo - idk how they managed to get such a talented lineup from a survival show (well, i kinda do since i watched it). good showing for rookie girl groups overall - got 17 songs on the list (i'm including ive's december debut). so yeah, some positivity from under the hybe takeover of the market!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfUAckewh_8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEgyvw5NECI

oh yeah, the list

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCMoLL8mA8nzaWgHalt5XESV6Y15tUhLo

100. Lightsum - Alive
99. M.M.D - WooAh HIP
98. Astro - Candy Sugar Pop
97. Jung Dakyung - Tell him to go (feat. So Yeon)
96. SNSD - Forever 1
95. Limelight - Eye to Eye
94. Dreamcatcher - Starlight
93. H1-KEY - Heart Light
92. YooA - Lay Low
91. (G)I-DLE - Change

90. WEi - Too Bad
89. MCND - W.A.T.1
88. SNSD - Lucky Like That
87. P1Harmony - Doom Du Doom
86. Dreamcatcher - Vision
85. Miyeon - Te Amo
84. Treasure - Darari (Remix)
83. Kang Daniel - Parade
82. BAE173 - Annoyed
81. Twice - Talk that talk

80. Mirae - Welcome To The Future
79. Davichi - Fanfare
78. Max Changmin - Maniac
77. Stray Kids - Maniac
76. Stayc - Young Luv
75. (G)I-DLE - Sculpture
74. iKON - Dragon
73. Adora - Magical Symphony
72. Younha - Event Horizon
71. TAN - Louder

70. Dreamcatcher - Beauty Full (Dami Solo)
69. Brave Girls - Love is Gone
68. Key - Another Life
67. Treasure - Hello
66. Adora - The Little Name
65. (G)I-DLE - Villain Dies
64. uni - DIVE
63. Kara - When I Move
62. NMIXX - Cool (Your rainbow)
61. Seulgi - 28 Reasons

60. Fifty Fifty - Lovin Me
59. Hwa Yeon - Blossom
58. RoaD-B - Icarus
57. Stayc - RUN2U
56. Pentagon - One Shot
55. Red Velvet - Feel My Rhythm
54. (G)I-DLE - Dark (X-file)
53. Kim Yo Han - Dessert
52. Brave Girls - Thank You
51. TAN - Walking on the Moon

50. Drippin - The One
49. SNSD - Villain
48. Able (Jang Hyunseung) - Feeling
47. Hynn - Orpheus (feat. Gwangil Jo)
46. Chungha - Sparkling
45. IVE - After Like
44. Kep1er - Mvsk
43. ILY:1 - Love in Bloom
42. Enhypen - Shout Out
41. (G)I-DLE - Reset

40. BE'O - Love Me
39. H1-KEY - Catch 'n' Release
38. CSR - Euratcha!
37. Stayc - Beautiful Monster
36. Alice - Dance On
35. Younha - c/2022YH
34. Class:y - Classy
33. Rocket Punch - In My World
32. IVE - My Satisfaction
31. Miyeon - Drive

30. msftz - takeoff
29. WJSN - Done
28. H1-KEY - Run
27. Class:y - Tick Tick Boom
26. iKON - But You
25. Taeyeon - INVU
24. j-hope - Arson
23. Class:y - Divin' into You
22. Junny - Not About You
21. Rocket Punch - Flash

20. Apink - Dilemma
19. woo!ah! - Catch the Stars
18. Class:y - Shut Down
17. Super Junior - Mango
16. Kwon Eun Bi - Glitch
15. Max Changmin - Fever
14. Rocket Punch - Chiquita
13. Pentagon - Call My Name
12. Golden Child - Replay
11. Cherry Bullet - Love in Space

10. Adora - Trouble? Travel
9. IVE - Love Dive
8. Purple Kiss - Nerdy
7. TAN - Du Du Du
6. (G)I-DLE - Never Stop Me
5. CSR - Pop? Pop!
4. (G)I-DLE - Nxde
3. WJSN - Last Sequence
2. (G)I-DLE - Tomboy
1. Pentagon - The Game

loona comeback postponed indefinitely hot damn

https://twitter.com/gointosubbit/status/1604711529433206784?t=HV1mfBg_GsSXViJnxKm-0g&s=19

details about loona's contracts came out through dispatch and shit is evil. 70:30 revenue split but a 50:50 expense split, which means a profitable project within a range would actually add to the members' debts - bbc can't fucking lose.

and that's even assuming they hold to it since chuu is also saying there's a lack of transparency.

Ruddager posted...

I'll believe this boycott when I see it

hard to say at this stage but for the numbers we have access to at least:
https://twitter.com/mameharas/status/1603007494057517061?t=cSSvIUxRQumWPzlpb79pYQ&s=19

stronger case for a boycott than the usual tbh - popular sentiment seems to be that any money fans give bbc now would be used against loona members in the lawsuit anyway.

paerarru posted...

Antifragile right? That shit's a bop and a half man, come on.

no celestial, actually.

paerarru posted...

Oh yeah? Oh yeah?? Well you... you're... you're a closet Blink! :p

wrong + not based + touch grass + straight + to + ya + dome + like + whoa + whoa + whoa

really though one of the lsf songs above is pretty good.

paerarru posted...

He hasn't been pulling any punches lately.

don't care + didn't ask + seethe harder + skill issue + lesser afim fan

man everyone's got her back

https://twitter.com/loonapress/status/1596497259419820037?t=khwQmHD-fk29jEPHfoa2kQ&s=19

like everyone chuu's ever worked with has come to her defense atp. unless bbc has proof this might be the dumbest thing they've ever done and that's saying something.

KaZooo posted...

G-IDLE tends to just always look cold imo.

L take + ratio + you fell off + cope harder + midjeans fan

Louis Cyphre (Angel Heart)
Lucifel (El Shaddai)

Fantasy

paerarru posted...

What is this show? Second... World...

singing-based show for main rappers - it's p cool.

also, class:y comeback is soon! no date yet, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwRBYuslzSo
is this song especially good or is it just next to dice.

itzy and nmixx are like opposites for me, in that i just fundamentally don't enjoy the vocals in itzy so unless they're getting songs as good as wannabe i'm all the way out. meanwhile, i tried on several occasions to get into o.o and occasionally those attempts made it past 30 seconds.

speaking of rookie girl groups,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18-HCgfm8TA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwf6A6sGZu4

she's killing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQDjN-2Qml4

like, you can still have them shout if you must, but hold off on the parts that actively grate and fuck off with all that sing-talking when they can actually sing and rap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G55g5vzLMc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UOEW3czU6U

they're very talented - kyujin is nuts this cb.

really need them to figure their shit out with this group.

Grim

PumpkinCoach posted...

cautiously looking forward to nmixx because i think they're mega talented and i've liked some of their covers, but their own songs are nigh unlistenable. based on the teasers so far, i think they're going for something abrasive again, but that doesn't have to be bad, though i haven't liked much out of jyp recently.

well, better luck next time i guess!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEOgUxpwskI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwNOq7wJF5g
at least we'll keep getting nice covers.

Suikoden

Suikoden
Smash

Mega
Eve

Pokemon
Grim

Spyro
Hill

Max Headroom

Street
Suikoden

The Life & Times of Tim

Sin
Empires

Arms
Spyro

xdinary heroes have a pop punk thing going but they don't really commit. i think jyp lets their bands do their own thing so we'll see where they go as they develop their sound. they're really flying under the radar though - don't even have a wikipedia page.

nmixx's debut was sort of maximalist and big on spectacle and since then they've done uhh some children's show theme and a remake of a rainbow b-side? it's weird, i feel like they're not getting the push you'd expect from being the new jyp girl group.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5gailJ3XyU
but man, they've got a lot to work with. i can't stand o.o and tank but it's to their credit as performers that those still have their moments.

though neither is more baffling than jyp's song choices for itzy lately.

anyways, should probably have took it to PMs - some parts of kpop are cool, and some are gross (and some are criminal, like this LPA situation). in conclusion, kpop is a land of contrasts thank you.

cautiously looking forward to nmixx because i think they're mega talented and i've liked some of their covers, but their own songs are nigh unlistenable. based on the teasers so far, i think they're going for something abrasive again, but that doesn't have to be bad, though i haven't liked much out of jyp recently.

killer7

I think the work you're talking about that would have to be done to get to that level of safety... is honestly overkill. Not to mention... I think it would be more work than you might think. The roots of these issues go VERY deep. And in many different directions, at that. I'm starting to wonder if you're the one that's too naive!

you don't know how much work i think it will be. maybe this is the problem with taking too large a scope because, yes, there is a constellation of issues, some easier to tackle than others, and some that are part of the general labour struggle that needs to happen regardless of whether there are minors involved. some of it is exploitative in the way all labour under capitalism is exploitative, and there's some that are more specific to kpop (former weeekly's jiyoon spoke candidly on some of that very recently, which is worth a look). the problems are not irreducible - the roots are deep, but not essential. the entertainment industry informs and is informed by the rest of society so it will require shifts in the culture, which are not pre-set conditions but stuff people have influence over. there is a huge gulf between accepting that nothing can be done (or rather, insisting that nothing can be done) and a hard ban. IU expressed her discomfort with the image she was foisted with and the complexes that it saddled her with, and out of a sense of complicity or whatever, was pilloried for it and smeared in a "wdym? there's no problem, you (IU) are the pervert", and that's still how that album is often viewed. so not becoming belligerent and refusing to acknowledge a problem as it is expressed through someone's first hand experience is, for instance, something that could be done.

But they're being sexually exploited as idols. Not as minors. Perhaps a (not so) subtle, but important distinction. The fact that they are idols who are being sexually exploited (as usual!) who happen to be minors is incidental, I really think, at least I certainly desperately want to believe so. And I can. So I will. And on top of that they're also being just regularly exploited. But they're minors, so that compounds THAT issue.

this feels like a distinction without a difference, because a minor doesn't cease being a minor when they're an idol. it's saying yes, minors are exploited, but the regular kind of exploitation that we've decided is just the way it is. the fact is that it's an industry with minors, that most enter into as minors, and that sustains itself on the hopes and dreams of minors. you're threading the needle to ease your mind which, well, i guess that's also what you're saying you're doing so carry on i guess?

So yeah. More to the point, we just flat out disagree here. No, I know what you mean. I still think that's a choice of interpretation. In fact I'll tell you, I think you're actually mistaken here. I don't think the girls are being portrayed THAT way there. I wrote a nice paragraph but no. I'm not even going to say anything more on this.

mmm, not really. yeah, you can have your interpretation of art, but aesthetics are also part of a greater cultural body of work and criticism within a critical community. again, what makes it a dog whistle is that it functions on multiple levels so you can ignore a lot of it, and many do, and you're not automatically a creep for enjoying it. kpop fans are generally desensitized to this sort of veiled sexual expression, but find a layperson unfamiliar with kpop and show them your soft focus video of teens in adult makeup making doe eyes at an uncomfortably intimate distance, often framing just part of the face or just the lips, into a pov camera that swims around furtively, as they confess their desire for you to make the move because they don't want to get hurt, and ask what they think.

KaZooo posted...

I've listened to this one a few times. It's a similar story to what I've been finding per my previous post. It's not bad, but I just don't think it really sticks with longevity. The build up is immediate, runtime is a but short and the instrumental hook is a bit of a filler.

Would've been nice if they didn't lean on that "I Will Survive " sample. It's so strongly associated with the original song that it's almost impossible to try to reinvent with it.

it's solid - just straight ahead, uncomplicated pop. kinda admire the straight rip on the sample in a work smarter not harder way.

paerarru posted...

I think the work you're talking about that would have to be done to get to that level of safety... is honestly overkill. Not to mention... I think it would be more work than you might think. The roots of these issues go VERY deep. And in many different directions, at that. I'm starting to wonder if you're the one that's too naive!

you don't know how much work i think it will be. maybe this is the problem with taking too large a scope because, yes, there is a constellation of issues, some easier to tackle than others, and some that are part of the general labour struggle that needs to happen regardless of whether there are minors involved. some of it is exploitative in the way all labour under capitalism is exploitative, and there's some that are more specific to kpop (former weeekly's jiyoon spoke candidly on some of that very recently, which is worth a look). the problems are not irreducible - the roots are deep, but not essential. the entertainment industry informs and is informed by the rest of society so it will require shifts in the culture, which are not pre-set conditions but stuff people have influence over. there is a huge gulf between accepting that nothing can be done (or rather, insisting that nothing can be done) and a hard ban. IU expressed her discomfort with the image she was foisted with and the complexes that it saddled her with, and out of a sense of complicity or whatever, was pilloried for it and smeared in a "wdym? there's no problem, you (IU) are the pervert", and that's still how that album is often viewed. so not becoming belligerent and refusing to acknowledge a problem as it is expressed through someone's first hand experience is, for instance, something that could be done.

paerarru posted...

But they're being sexually exploited as idols. Not as minors. Perhaps a (not so) subtle, but important distinction. The fact that they are idols who are being sexually exploited (as usual!) who happen to be minors is incidental, I really think, at least I certainly desperately want to believe so. And I can. So I will. And on top of that they're also being just regularly exploited. But they're minors, so that compounds THAT issue.

this feels like a distinction without a difference, because a minor doesn't cease being a minor when they're an idol. it's saying yes, minors are exploited, but the regular kind of exploitation that we've decided is just the way it is. the fact is that it's an industry with minors, that most enter into as minors, and that sustains itself on the hopes and dreams of minors. you're threading the needle to ease your mind which, well, i guess that's also what you're saying you're doing so carry on i guess?

paerarru posted...

So yeah. More to the point, we just flat out disagree here. No, I know what you mean. I still think that's a choice of interpretation. In fact I'll tell you, I think you're actually mistaken here. I don't think the girls are being portrayed THAT way there. I wrote a nice paragraph but no. I'm not even going to say anything more on this.

mmm, not really. yeah, you can have your interpretation of art, but aesthetics are also part of a greater cultural body of work and criticism within a critical community. again, what makes it a dog whistle is that it functions on multiple levels so you can ignore a lot of it, and many do, and you're not automatically a creep for enjoying it. like yeah, you can also say it's just pretty kids singing a shit song. kpop fans are generally desensitized to this sort of veiled sexual expression, but find a layperson unfamiliar with kpop and show them your soft focus video of teens in adult makeup making doe eyes at an uncomfortably intimate distance, often framing just part of the face or just the lips, into a pov camera that swims around furtively, as they confess their desire for you to make the move because they don't want to get hurt, and ask what they think.

paerarru posted...

...okay, so ban them from training also? You're doubling down on a level of purity that's unrealistic, not to mention impractical. Maybe even a hint paranoid in its vigilance. I know you have very well justified, and well intentioned reasons for doing so, but yes, there's something to be said about not making the conscience and morals of other people the archenemies of our tastes and sensibilities...

that's not my conclusion though. i'm agreeing that a ban is impractical and arbitrary, but also that it wouldn't address the issues that often get raised. i think you can have a safe environment for minors and everyone else in the industry, but it takes work.

paerarru posted...

Exactly, that IS the point, but you don't see it through, you don't care to see it through, you don't connect those two paragraphs. There are two big issues, and if and when they come together they may yet make a third, but everybody chooses to cast the narrative their own way, mix and match, one big easy to judge or dismiss lump.

i can barely parse this, but what i mean is that there are issues specific to minors and ones that affect minors but also apply to adults in the industry and could be addressed together.

paerarru posted...

But Pumpkin. Liking girls (or boys) is not necessarily creepy, in fact it's quite perfectly natural. Yes, even young girls, to some degree, in some way, if that's even what might happen at some given moment.

this isn't about how you or i or anyone else personally engages with newjean's material. i am not the thought police.

paerarru posted...

Everyone has their own perception, their own limit. And what might seem innocent to some might seem extreme to others.

hence, a dog whistle. the presentation in the hurt mv is very sexual. i'm not talking morals, just visual literacy. most people are not going to see it that way, and more power to them. i can lay out why it's creepy and that would just be another perspective, and yeah, it's not a crime scene - like i said, i can't draw any conclusions beyond an aesthetic critique.

paerarru posted...

Where does that leave the children's agency?

how much agency do you think the kids are allowed in any part of newjean's presentation? though i take the point that there are presumptions about how individual performers feel in a lot of critique, but again, my focus is not on newjeans but on broader industry and cultural attitudes.

KaZooo posted...

Never thought I'd be on gamefaqs seeing 14 year olds pit against each other between users, like parents who get competitive over kids sports.

oh yeah? let's take it to the skating rink my kid's a champion figure skater

paerarru posted...

with this standard there's no solution but a hard line ban on minors (and good luck with that!)

i don't see what that's going to do, because you'd still have minors as trainees, subjected to largely the same environment, but without even the public oversight. also, you do not have to be a minor to be sexually exploited in the industry - take stellar, for example.

it depends on what we're identifying as the problem with minors in kpop, and for my part most of those are still labour issues, a lot of which are opaque and dependent on internal pressure. in some ways, there have been improvements on that front - there are curfews that weren't there before (though i'm sure companies have dodged those) and mental health breaks which are good for everyone, but that's beyond the scope of this discussion. what i can comment on is how they're marketed since that's forward facing, but that doesn't tell me what's going on beyond that. like, them doing creepy lolita shit with an mv doesn't tell me about their work conditions, but i do see criticism that over-conflates the issue. i think folks towing the company line of "it's a fan song! they want to bake cookies for their fans it's perfectly innocent no you're the pervert" are ridiculous, but i don't think "min heejin is a groomer! ban all minors" have much of a leg to stand on either. it's tricky, but being a minor doesn't make you automatically unable to handle the industry anymore than being of age makes you able to, so plenty to be done before just an outright ban on minors which, again, wouldn't do shit.

so back to the main thing which is sexual exploitation of minors, and that's not really about newjeans but the broader culture. bringing up yer taemins and hyunas is useful because a lot of newer fans like to look at a few groups now as a limited and unique phenomenon rather than something pervasive and ingrained, but as a defense it falls short because you also have idols who debuted as minors talking about issues they faced surrounding that. specifically i'm thinking about IU as an adult writing an album critiquing how she was sexualised as a minor, and the sheer amount of pushback she got for it. like, i get the frustration, "most disgusting thing in kpop" is not a great place to start a conversation (and misses the forest for the trees), but that doesn't mean there's nothing worth considering.

anyways, newjeans is mid, boring rnb, sounded like goddamn robots in that mnet itnw cover, the 14yos in my group can beat up their 14yos.

https://youtu.be/k9V6wQLs0Hk

and that's the rapper.

Umurangi Generation

Mezcla posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQlMMD8auMs

lovesick girls was great so i hope it means they got this rehash out of their system with the pre-release and the actual title track is better.

KaZooo posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L7eMf6Yf84

hey, that does look less like they broke rotta out of jail to film an mv this time.

KaZooo posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uu_pkaUm4c

love dive is a fucking banger, but tbh i think that had little to do with ive and maybe i need an EP at least to get a grasp on the group or be curious about them in any way.

though i'll take another banger too ofc.

Valkyrie
Mega

Fire
Tekken

ehhh some of the newjeans stuff is a pretty fucking loud dog whistle and that hurt mv in particular is creepy as shit. you combine that with min heejin's history and her decor and i get people being leary. like, maybe there's extra discourse on this because people who are desensitized to the industry standard level of sexualization of minors aren't used to it being this aestheticized? not that the former gets a pass ofc.

PumpkinCoach posted...

since we're kind of on a nostalgia kick, i appreciate this new group doing 2015 lovelyz/gfriend

literally this time

https://youtu.be/1yH-zccQZvw

since we're kind of on a nostalgia kick, i appreciate this new group doing 2015 lovelyz/gfriend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vbwpEc0EeA

paerarru posted...

I wonder what Kpop looks like to someone who's not a fan

a cult

Zelda

went back to this to check who all from idol school were there and remembered this was how they announced pd48 (also rigged btw no i'm not bitter)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_5qzkFgr9E

i remember everyone seeing the high ranking senbatsu members and saying there's no way, it's going to be all theatre girls, and in the end they got fucking sakura and jurina.

i seriously need to watch that new snsd variety show.

paerarru posted...

@PumpkinCoach hates fromis because Natty's not on it. Also Haein. Wait, actually I hate that too; she was rigged out of the group (well, everybody in the show was). Petition to add Haein to fromis. Even though I think the lineup is perfect.

233 instances of vote manipulation lmao nothing was real on that show

but eh, what's done is done. 'to heart' was actually one of my favourite debut songs ever - my problem now is that their discog has been bland since 2019.

speaking of natty she signed with S2 a few weeks ago, who just disbanded hot issue after less than a year a few months ago. hope this goes better for her than it did for them, and that they give her good songs like her last 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7IpXmqdFSw
god, once upon a time it looked like we could have had this group (- eunsuh and prob haneul, + yuri)