Lurker > Crescent-Moon

ScareChan posted...

It looks like mass and that probably means I'm the lynch because my role is about the scummiest thing you can think of. I'm pretty sure I've seen it only in scum fake claims, like twice, and never actually in practice in a real game

At this point, I had claimed my flavor and vaguely hinted at what it does, and MZero claimed something that explained why he vanished.

To someone not actually paying attention, I could see them confusing it for a mass.

MZero posted...

Scare why did you say "looks like mass" when you were the only one being pressured to claim and no one was suggesting mass

My opening wall suggested mass, but I wrote that thinking you were dead and went back on it right after.

I don't believe anyone else ever said anything about a mass.

LiquidOshawott posted...

He just needs to dodge San Francisco

.What if he goes to San Francisco?

He has to make sure he goes somewhere with competent special teams so that works.

Fastbreak posted...

I'm not home.

I don't know if I would have done much more if I was home though considering no one has actually tried to engage with me, they're just metaing my flavor

Actually I'd say you're not engaging with anyone else, and your flavor claim is not why people are voting you.

This was just your 4th post since your claim. You have presented no arguments for lynching anyone else, nothing substantial as to why we should think you are town, and the day has pretty much died as a result.

I didn't remember FK being so bad, but when both critic reviews and fan reviews agree it's a 5/10 at best, that's pretty telling.

Rodgers is probably gone from wherever he's sent in 2-3 seasons.

I'd just take the best out of division offer from most teams.

Though I wouldn't send him to Tampa and let just him replace Brady.

Well ok now I gave it some thought, and I have a question that Ulti could answer right away that Mike would very likely have zero clue about.

masterplum posted...

I actually would like mike to prove Ulti can talk to him yeah

Well it was less about proving and more about hearing a confirmed town but you're right.

Sidebar to Mike:

Ulti can still talk to you, can't he?

Is he saying anything today?

But how does that actually help town? That continues to be my point.

All you did was self-confirm you can disappear for the sake of self-confirming it.

masterplum posted...

Thats not

I think Im going to exit this conversation.

It's interesting how Plum doesn't seem to defend MZero himself at all, just the notion that what MZero is claiming to have done is inherently not town-minded.

MZero posted...

good thing i didnt use it for that then

Regardless of your alignment, you have already admitted you disappeared for day 2 because you'd be just as inactive day 2 as you were on day 1. That's called image preservation.

MZero posted...

how many times have you seen me night killed Crescent

A few. No way I could give you an exact amount.

Like to put this into perspective:

If he's town, what he did was effectively no different than I could've done if I decided to blow my power early.

masterplum posted...

I mean there are scenarios where Mzero can still be scum, but trying to use evidence he shouldnt have used it night 1 is not one of them.

MZero is either scum, he's or town who wasted his role by blowing it in the least helpful manner to town possible.

That's really all this is.

masterplum posted...

That still leaves the scenario that scum would have had to shoot Mzero at the exact same time he commuted and also he wasnt needed the next day because if it was mylo scum insta wins anyways whether he dies or not because they cant be lynched.

I've already said I have a confirmable power that is likely to achieve absolutely nothing this game.

It's possible he one too and has completely wasted it, yes.

MZero posted...

again I ask

why would I not use it? What is the negative of using it as I did?

You ruin it's value. If I have the role you're claiming, I never use it unless I'm 90%+ sure I'm getting shot. I never consider using it before then.

Using it only on the basis of self image is not a town mindset.

Also Plum thank you for pointing out exactly how and why he's misplayed horribly if he's town.

He claims a role that is glorious if used on the night it gets shot.

masterplum posted...

What

Huh, we didnt target this guy at all but he randomly got janitored. We must have been responsible despite not seeing his role or targeting him at all - No scum ever

I'm positive roles that naturally don't flip when killed have existed in mafia games before.

You'd WIFOM the hell out of scum with it.

To further elaborate, you effectively claim to be able to trick scum into thinking they killed you when they really didn't.

If you're town, you've horribly misplayed this.

masterplum posted...

Fair.

I think we can save this discussion after scare flips, because I think scares role may be illuminating. If he is a scum vanilla for instance I think this is plausible but if he is a roleblocker for instance then Mzero faking a scan on him when it was extremely plausible I could have been lynched seems unlikely*

*This requires knowledge that I am town, which I am, but just go with me for a bit here or substitute me for anyone else you think may be scum

My gut feeling is Scare is scum claiming his actual power.

And.. When did MZero claim a scan? He just went right after lynching him.

MZero posted...

What do you mean

why would I have not used it, especially if I wasn't going to participate much in the day

You didn't participate much in day 1 to begin with.

The strength of what you're claiming is in it's surprise factor. If you're town, there is no reason to use it if you're not trying to be shot and don't expect to be shot.

I'd wager it would have limitations on when it can be used. Like, GoT2 had a scum doublevoter who could only doublevote on day 1.

MikeTavish posted...

(Or both?)

It's not a question if Scare OR MZero is scum. It's a question if Scare AND MZero are scum.

Scare is scum or he has a very poorly thought out role, and the former seems a lot more likely. Scare has barely done anything this game in the first place and he's basically claiming a superpowered universal backup in a game with a flipped town BP.

MZero reappears and effectively claims second BP. He then immediately starts a train on Scare, who claims third BP. I had also already brought up how a commuter claim generally doesn't jive with a BP. Gambits where two scum claim similar power in succession are not all that uncommon.

The bone I have with MZero after seeing his interactions with Red:

He was barely active day 1. Made a bunch of useless posts, a "low-hanging fruit" vote that I called him out on, then he shifted his vote on Red and that was it. I don't remember him doing anything substantial. He claims to have used it because he'd barely be active day 2, except he was barely active day 1. He does nothing to hint, and nothing to attempt to be shot.

The sole reason he is claiming to have have "commuted" and disappeared for day 2 was for the sake of his own image. It's not a town mindset at all.

I feel worse about MZero and better about Red after that exchange.

Though he's also -2 already so let's just leave him there until he shows up.

Scare is a perfectly fine place to start. He's probably been even less active than Chris.

Isquen posted...

or the SK is asleep at the wheel and didn't do a night action, and is one of the coasters.)

As far as I know, SKs are compulsively forced to shoot at night, and will be modkilled if they don't shoot anyone. It's why an SK might try to hide their shots by trying to crosskill with mafia or by shooting people they think won't die.

So basically flavor meta is saying we have no actual idea what the scan Mike claimed means zzzz

MikeTavish posted...

Mzero's role is interesting and I guess that means mafia don't have an extra kill or they got blocked/shot into bulletproof. Question for people with more experience: Is there any way that's a scum role?

The one thing that sticks out to me about "Commuter" is that towns generally don't have both a BP and a Commuter. It's generally frowned upon for a town to have two people who cannot be conventionally nightkilled, though the "Disappearing" part is something I've never heard of before with a Commuter.

But: For him to be scum requires a different scum to have a role I've only ever seen once, or for him to be scum with a role I've never seen before.

Is it possible? Yes. Is it something I'd be willing to bet on right now? No.

Does it really matter?

We need to be hunting for scum, not diving back into day 2's flavor meta.

Isquen suspected Chris and Scare, I remember that much.

masterplum posted...

You act like I remember this at all

It's unusual if I don't wall of text at least once by day 3 or day 4. It helps me get my thoughts out.

It's a habit I've tried to get out of but then everything just mashes up together in my head.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Plum has seen town chris post wall of texts in dead chats enough

Geesh why cant I be day vig

Plum has seen me post walls of text at the start of a day several times before so...

MikeTavish posted...

Don't have time for a ton of info right now but I gained bulletproof powers AND an "aether scan".

Chris's aether is pure. I scanned him because across all my games of mafia, town Chris has been willing to pick a game up on his back and carry it. I'm not feeling that at all here. Maybe it's because he's bored of mafia because it's "solved" or whatever but I wasn't buying it.

Legitimately disappointed to see he's town (I assume that'd what pure aether means) and I'd like to see a lot more from him today.

Will be back later when I'm at work.

Oh and Ulti says we are all idiots who should never play mafia again etc etc hopefully he comes around and gives some useful thoughts later.

Interesting and potentially game breakingly useful depending on what Aether means here.

The vibe I've gotten out of you so far is mostly just sitting back and watching town cannibalize itself.

Waste of time? Hardly. It was a goldmine of reads.

Isquen posted...

Well that's... interesting.

I was almost certain there'd be a Zenos in game after the last lynch, as Mike didn't die overnight too, but maybe now that Mike has BP instead of the WoL, Zenos can't negate his BP? Or maybe that's the blessing, Zenos tried, and the blessing overwrote it?

That explains a few things though, like why a lynch went through without a stated majority on night one. Can we safely presume *not* a janitor role, then?

Bat had the most votes. Bat died. That's.. How lynches work.

And also in hindsight now that MZero is back alive I don't know if we need to mass, but I never tamper with the wall after I've written it.

6. Scare - Is the first to call out the "slip" on Bat and remains consistent on him after his claim. Openly suspectes Mike of bussing Bat, but doesnot press further. Scare calls Red/Chris both town at the start of the day just for being alive together. Clearly follows the "lynch third party" angle in first response and barely does anything during the player meta. Much like Chris, Scare practically vanishes from the game during the Mike/Ulti flavor storming.

7. Mike - Could be some weirdass indy with some super wincon still and if he is... More power to him, I guess. This is not a rabbit hole I am willing to revisit. I liked him after day 1 (Even if in hindsight, his soft counter makes basically no sense.). His play was consistent both internally and with the flow of day 2. For Mike to be bad would require him to have masterminded everything and a lot more tin foil hatting. Regardless, I do not care to look in Mike's direction and that's why he's getting a different writeup.

8. Plum - Plum has been a major driving force on both lynches. Unvotes Ulti after the slip, but doesn't vote Bat, and doesn't respond to me when I ask him if he still suspects Ulti. He votes Bat only after the BG claim, and is quickly followed by Mike, which pretty well shuts the door on Bat, and immediately pulls a vote from Chris. Plum spends most of the rest of the day furthering his justificaion for voting Bat, and he comments that my Isquen vote is "good" without any followup. On day 2, he voices suspicion of Chris, and later Ulti. He then votes Mike, but eventually he ends up as the first person outside of the flavor meta gangbang to vote for Ulti and remains fairly stalwart in his vote. As a sidebar, Ulti was pretty clear about suspecting Plum

Ulti's town flip (by the way thanks for randomly deciding the hammer him all of like 80 minutes I after I got home from a shift I intentionally had moved early enough to be productive in game) makes Plum a murky situation in general, because it means someone I know was town and someone I heavily lean scum on both call Plum scum.

I could see a Chris/Plum/Scare team where Chris/Plum are actively calling each other scum and Chris/Scare are passively calling each other town, but it actually feels a little too simple. If I had to guess, it's probably two of the above + 1 other person. I'd go Red or Banana next, because I think scum Chris is way more likely to randomly hardclear a newbie town than a newbie scumbuddy.

I'm sure Ulti has a *lot* to say right now through Mike and I'm interested in hearing what he has to say. Unless it's just insulting people.

But also, since today will almost certainly be a massclaim day, and I was consistently waffling on whether or not to softclaim yesterday (Which would've just caused even MORE flavor meta), I'm just going to get us started, because I have the exact type of role absolutely no one wants me to have.

I have a confirmable but highly situational town power role ("Mothercrystal") that can either save the town from certain death... Or achieve absolutely nothing and is more than likely to achieve the latter.

My flavor, Hydaelyn, is why my snap reaction was to "under no circumstances" lynch Ulti. One look at the FFXIV Wiki on Ulti's flavor showed a direct connection between his claimed flavor and mine. I gradually got paranoid about being in some sort of sick flavor trap, which is why I kept pressing Ulti so much.

Personally think Chris should be the lynch today, but we need to mass and gather any information we have first.

Oh hi MZero.

Anyways I did that thing where I pop awake and spend a couple of hours writing a wall in the middle of the morning:

Ok started doing the "write in my head when half-asleep" thing again doing player breakdowns in my head so here goes something more detailed that will inevitably turn out to be way longer than I intended because I don't expect to die tonight and I'm just going to ramble like nuts.

[6]Ulti - Mike, Isquen, Plum, Tidus, Red, Scare
[2]Mike - (Isquen), Ulti, (Tidus), (Plum), Chris, (Scare)

[6]Shonen - Scare, Death, (Ulti), Tidus, Banana, Plum, Mike

Mike, Plum, Scare, Tidus were on both lynches. The latter three were on Mike before later switching to Ulti. Red wasn't on Bat, but was clear he supported it.

Imma just go down the player list.

1. Red - Does very little early in the day, then is oddly confident about Bat for day 1 by Red's standards. Red is a major driving force in Ulti's lynch despite being the 5th vote and voting him based on "behavior". Responds to Scare calling him and Chris town with mild suspicion of Scare. Is the first person to insinuate Ulti might be "Elibidus". Mike doesn't really believe it and Red brings it up again. From this point on, basically everything Red does is flavor meta, host meta, or side comment, with the exception of calling out Banana's lack of activity. Remains dead sure Ulti is not BP the entire day.

2. Chris - Has effectively done nothing this game. Vocally opposes Bat's lynch, but makes no serious attempt to prevent it. He then doubles down on calling people idiots at the start of day 2 and pretends like he did way more on day 1 than he actually did.

Let's break this down: He votes Plum for voting Bat, calls me scum because ???, and disappears 30 minutes later. He then shows back up with 17 minutes left in the day when the lynch is 6-2, calls people idiots, and makes no actual attempt to prevent it from happening.

Considers voting Ulti early in day 2, then votes Mike and basically peaces for the rest of the day. Consistently calls Plum and I scum early in the day, but unlike Ulti, he never engages me, even when I bait him. Says he likes Scare and Banana early in the day, but never speaks about either player again. Makes one comment that Red is town. Also calls Isquen scum early in the day and townclears Tidus, but doesn't give a reason for either.

Chris' play on return day mostly just calling us bad, saying Mike is probably town (which I felt was an obvious take, hence my distrust of Isquen) , and saying Death is pllaying too badly to be to be scum right at the end of the day.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

That all being said I don't have a terrible amount of investment in this game thankfully so maybe bat is indeed just newbie scum who slipped. But most slips turn out not to be such and I don't even view it as a slip. I like to lynch scum day one personally and when I can understand where someone is coming from it is usually town.

Idk just feels like a really s***ty lynch but sometimes s***ty lunches get scum so? Whoo let's roll the dice and hope disastrous play and logic work out.

But there's also this. This post really sums up Chris on day 1. "I'm against this lynch of a player who's going to flip town, but I'm not really going to try to stop you".

3. Banana - Outside of the flavor metaing, I honestly have no idea what Banana has done this game, so I'm ISOing him. Banana's first post of the game is a check-in post on page 2 of day 1 commenting on the extra vote being "concerning". His second post of the game is voting Bat on page 4. Both Death and Red immediately point him out for coasting following this vote. He then drops off the map until appearing near the end of the day and using a lot of words to say very little. The only clear opinion in this statement seems to be a townread of Death.

Banana does not talk about anything except for Mike and Ulti the entire second day. He shows some paranoia towards Ulti, but never indicates a willingness to lynch him. He does indicate he's "genuinely surprised" that the vote is even around the halfway mark of the day, except he doesn't have his vote down and he's made it pretty clear he intends to vote for Mike.

4. Isquen - Wasn't nearly as active on day 2 as I seem to remember. Doubles down on Mike at the start of the day despite multiple people chiming in that they thought Mike was town at the end of day 1. Calls me a third party out of the blue, then says he dislikes Scare/Plum/Chris in the middle of the day without giving any reason for adding Scare and Chris. but in the same post he calls me town for "antagonizing him". That all said, I kind of just believe the gender snafu was legitimate instead of planned out, though I'm not sure why he would suddenly take a single use of a female pronoun that was directed at me as evidence that Ulti knew his flavor.

5. Tidus - I have surprisingly little to say here. He exists and comes off as mostly clueless. I did not like the way he jumped on Bat, but it's pretty clear he's a follower who's trying to find his legs and is awkwardly trying to do it. I feel like I could just flip a coin on this guy and be done with it.

Japan is an illusion.

The Pats did have a fairly easy out of division schedule, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4PVLzR9XcY

He just got to the playoffs with a "some nobody" at best quality QB and a team that was in shambles, though.

DUCK HODGES IN THE 24 1/2 CENTURY!!!!

I seriously don't even remember the name "Duck Hodges" so that sounded better.

Tomlin somehow carried that Steelers team to the playoffs.

One day later:

Nope, still awful.

Fans want teams to tank.

There are surely plenty of Texans fans who think Culley failed his job by somehow not taking this roster to the #1 pick.

Underleveled posted...

Oh I've never seen the Switch/Lite as a portable in the same vein as the GB/GBA/DS/3DS/even PSP/Vita. And it's a shame that branch of gaming is functionally dead because I really loved it.

I don't consider any version of the Switch a true portable console.

If I'm gaming on the go, I'm taking my 3DS every time.

Hiring the guy we knew threw an NFL game for funsies that no real team would willingly let near them?

Perfect match!

LiquidOshawott posted...

Leftwich pulling out doesnt surprise me, hes probably gonna be Arianss successor at this point.

Good on him. Leftwich being patient enough not to walk into a trash fire that'll dump him within 2 years is a good thing.

The Switch isn't going anywhere any time soon. It'll probably pass PS2 with room to spare.

The Wii U sold poorly because everyone who regretted getting the Wii (includes myself) skipped over it without second thought.

ShadowYosuke posted...

I'm about to give up on the Jags. Saints will probably hire Pederson, and we'll end up with Vic Fangio or Rich Bisaccia. Or worse: Darrell Bevel.

Bill O Brien

What is the take you "want" to see from him?