Lurker > Alany

Triple REX, parameter buff and Samus' gunship along with Bass.EXE potentially even using his shielding gimmicks through it. Not to mention due to the cushy insides of REX none of them even suffer the heat. Is there really any argument needed here?

Incidentally the terrain doesn't account for 1v1v1s, where is Zero's team?

DeathChicken posted...

but I can see the headache arguments versus that ("He doesn't have the Soul Reaver in this timeline ihopaihspgoih") coming a mile away

I already said I was wrong on that, in the thread even. Sorry, I misunderstood the lore.

Alany. #1.

Anyone else got a vote? This is an exhibition match, so everyone's opinions matter!

KanzarisKelshen posted...

with parameters within the ranges of enemies she's faced and beaten?

I don't think that's particularly anywhere near true. Templar only have the weapon advantage here and their teleportation while true, isn't something spammable.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

This goes double considering Nova has her Holodecoys to fake the Boss out

See, then we're getting into issues of how much Energy Nova has. After all, with the plasma shot and Forcefield Nova taps out, as the former is 75 energy and the latter is 25. She couldn't keep cloaking, she couldn't use decoys, she couldn't do anything else that required energy at all.

ZeeksFire posted...

Actually alany, mechanically if the bullets dealt 10 damage each, the shield would do absolutely nothing, since it's below it's threshold to activate. from what it reads on the scwiki for covert ops, it reduces damage to 10, not by 10.

That's... what I meant, yeah. Apologies, I must have worded it poorly.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

She may not have the Boss' legendary CQC acumen, but she doesn't need to be that good at hand-to-hand - just good enough to slip away and let her invisibility take care of the rest.

Except she does have to be that. Even Big Boss in active camo couldn't escape regular The Boss unless he actively knocked her down and ran. With her buffed up like this it'd be almost impossible for her to run and actually impossible for her to win in CQC.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Regeneration doesn't help against burning, persistent plasma.

Except there's two layers of regeneration here. The first is Shirou's own regeneration that turns his skin and muscles into swords, knitting together and then healing. The second above that is E-001. Together I'm more than 100% sure that Shirou's regeneration would be able to remove the plasma'd area and dump it from his body.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

(And, y'know, refer above to Nova having a shield to protect her from damage. It's gonna stop the Patriot's dakka cold.)

As for the Ionic Forcefield, it only lasts 10 seconds. In purely mechanical terms it limits damage taken to 10 and tanks up to 500 hits. Taking an average of 1200 RPM and dividing that by 20, The Boss would have to put sustained fire of 25 seconds assuming each bullet deals 1 damage. If they dealt 10 damage, it'd take 2.5 seconds for her shield to crumble.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

then snipes Yu or Shirou as necessary

See, that's the tough part. Because both of them have methods of dealing with it. Yu with taunting Ghouls and Shirou with his regeneration. Not to mention, as Terra most certainly doesn't have the ability to keep up with Boss Wesker and whether Ashley does or not is up in the air, seeing her going straight after Nova by spraying the entire area where she's at doesn't seem out of the question.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

The main problem isn't that Shirou's down to suicide tactics so much as when he runs outta mana, that's all she wrote. Shirou has enough juice in him for one Caladbolg, give or take a couple Z-Sabers or K&Bs. Afterward, his MP recovery is measured in terms of days, not seconds or minutes. There's no real compelling reason for the E-001 to make him a better caster,

Because, as you know, casting in Fateverse works not off of MP as such, but MP and Lifeforce. Shirou can literally kill himself by overcasting beyond his limits. E-001 as every single scene has showed, is overflowing with life, to the point where Jack can't be killed by anything but an injection of the specific anti-virus that counters E-001.

So there are two possibilities
1) Thanks to E-001's overflowing lifeforce, Shirou can overcast essentially for free, although at likely excruciating pain to himself.
2) Thanks to E-001, Shirou can resurrect himself after killing himself, allowing him to effectively overextend his mana with his lives. Which is something he'd do, as he's only aware of the limit after the 3rd death.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Wesker Boss can't leave them because if she gets into a 1v3

Why is this an issue, again? She's practically immune to gunfire, Terra's casting doesn't autohit and Ashley can't hit her. Even if she gets clipped by bullets she heals and if she gets into CQC then she outskills and outspeeds her opponents. Even if she can't KILL Ashley, HE can't kill her.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

especially if Shirou manaburns himself trying to kill Terra too. All those resources spent on the support make the main gun an insurmountable obstacle.)

Shirou can burn himself out three times to create Caladbolgs. If you want to take an alternative interpretation one could also say that the E-001 provides him with almost limitless mana and body to burn, considering how much it impacted Jack's stamina.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Knowing she's coming helps with that. It's not the first time Nova has ran across speedy slippery buggers, so being able to set up a team ambush helps a lot to ensure Boss can't do that much to Terra.

How can you set up an ambush against someone who can effectively teleport? Wesker Boss can essentially dodge anything the opposing team can throw at her. Not to mention... I truly doubt Nova can get a good read on how fast Wesker Boss will be when she's walking around with her team

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Ghouls are going to do a better scouting job than the hi-tech psychic with a visor that specifically tells here where enemies in a large radius are, through walls?

In a small close quarters environment, they're going to act as both scouts and bodyblockers, allowing Yu to effectively pinpoint their position as they're dealing with the undead husks. Combine that with the ludicrous speed of The Boss and anyone she catches down there is going to be riddled with bullets before they have a chance to truly retaliate against her.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Shirou is dead/manaburned (because of trying to trace Caladbolg)

KanzarisKelshen posted...

And then he's gonna do the shirou thing and bodyblock for his allies, die and start the fight 2v3

With multiple lives and a now inhuman body, Shirou's not going to be taken down by anything but an absolute destruction of his brain and heart, anything less and he'll regenerate within a few moments, with his stacking regeneration. If he's bodyblocking as you said, then that for the most part would mean that whatever is hitting him would not hit these lethal locations (Example: Nova going for headshot on Yu. Shirou bodyblocks, shot goes on his body.)

KanzarisKelshen posted...

She certainly could, but at that point Shirou is dead/manaburned (because of trying to trace Caladbolg), and Nova and Ashley can take down Yu at leisure. Shirou is really, really not good backup for his two strong allies here. Couple that with Nova being all but assured first strike because she can track enemy movements and it's ugly, yo.

That depends on the area of engagement. Simply because Nova knows their position doesn't mean she'll be able to have a first strike. If they choose a defensive terrain in the tunnels, knowing that all of their number have the ability to survive a cave-in and get themselves out then Nova and team will be effectively out of luck, especially with Yu setting up Ghouls to scout.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Terra flies. If the Boss is trying to jump up to get her, she's putting herself in a terrible position and sacrificing all of her stealth to do so.

She could also pull a wesker. Shirou traces her a Caladbolg II and she tosses it like Wesker does Missiles.

greengravy294 posted...

not sure if this is a particularly good town for nova to start sniping on. initial thought was that everyone kinda jobbed to her ranged capabilities besides shirou's plot hacks

http://www.fantasyanime.com/finalfantasy/ff6/images/ff6gba_map01-Narshe1.png

Narshe has an extensive amount of cover and internal mines but it does also have an overlooking mountain.

Although, due to the immense amount of snow and ice, I suppose Nova's stealth would be hampered due to the amount of tracks she'd make.

Gatarix posted...

I feel like the class change to Dark Knight probably helps with that? I don't know how much HP Dark Knights have, but it's got to be more than base high school student.

Death Knights from World of Warcraft are an explicitly tanky class with several self-healing abilities, so yes. It's pretty apt to say he's not in the Persona kiddy pool of HP

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Ultimate ignores defense so ya p sure it will

Ultima is not immune however to counter magic, such as Runic. It's absorbed into MP just like a whole host of other spells. MDef is not the only way to protect against a spell.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Also, it might seem I'm being harsh on Yu but I'm really not - I think he's quite strong here and could challenge Ashley very well. The problem is Ashley's backup counters him pretty hard and Yu's backup is Shirou.

Except you're forgetting The Boss, here. Especially against someone like Terra who would put herself out and clear in the open to cast Ultima, more than a clear target for The Boss.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

even if he wouldn't job super hard to an Ultima or a faceful of plasma.

He himself is coated in runic armor now, you're not seeing the regular coat or jacket from Persona, instead his armor now would be as effective as the heavy plate utilized by Death Knights, enchanted on top of that with magic specifically meant for defensive purposes. Unless you think The Lich King's handiwork can cave to a single spell or bolt of plasma?

FFDragon posted...

Shirou is still the worst on the field imo

Hey, at least now he can kill himself in a suicide explosion using Caladbolg and feasibly so at that!
https://youtu.be/qYd-pClfUUE?t=1m13s

We have several major players on this field, the major one being The Boss. Infected by the Prototype Virus strain of the Progenitor Virus, she has been transformed into something no longer human, elevating her physical abilities into superhuman, much as the Progenitor Virus once did to Wesker, giving him his signature abilities.

Gone are her wounds, her scar, her both cosmic and atomic radiation poisoning. In it's place is a hardened body that can resist bullets, survive point blank rocket explosions and regenerate her wounds within seconds and minutes. Her agility has been altered, allowing her to dodge bullets at almost point blank range, move so fast she is effectively teleporting and jump far larger distances. Example.



And her strength, which prior was already extremely strong (Carried the davy crockett nuclear bomb launcher and ammunition, capable of firing it with just her bare hands) allows her to go into active superhuman, from impaling a person with her bare hand to breaking and bending steel.


But she is not alone. Backing her up is an E-001 Infected Shirou, for those of you who haven't played RE7, give this video a skim.

To give the written high lights, Jack is supernaturally strong, able to use a shovel to pierce through a man's skull in a single strike. His regeneration and durability verges on insane, being able to survive multiple hits with a car, a car crash against girders and along with that being burned and finally shot in the head, blasting his brain apart.
https://youtu.be/XkKmsIUcsyk?t=3m42s
He then reappears, effectively unharmed. In this fight the protagonist shoves a chainsaw through the man's brain multiple times until he finally appears to die, his entire upper body gone. And yet he reappears once again later in the campaign.

Combine this durability with Shirou's inherent own regeneration, Avalon healing him from the inside turns his wounds into swords and knits them together, combining these two methods of regeneration Shirou will be effectively invulnerable if he knows an attack is coming. With three lives on top of that and explosive weaponry (which he can suicide with comfortably if needs be) such as Caladbolg II, extremely powerful weaponry like the Z Saber and his own natural skill with weaponry, no one but the new Nova can effectively and efficiently take Shirou down and even she will have a hard time, considering Shirou's peak reflexes and danger senses.

Finally we have Yu Narukami, with full access to his abilities. Izanagi No Okami, Shadow Yu and his additional persona. But on top of this he himself is now no longer simply a high school boy, he is a Death Knight with his equipment enchanted personally by The Lich King, with all of the specialties from World of Warcraft at his disposal and a powerful mount to ride with.

These three factors make Yu Narukami a much more significant threat as with magic the durability of any of the opposing mercenaries goes out of the window, he can summon Ghouls to fight for him (Which taunt the enemies in the aggro sense) and on top of this he even possesses healing abilities, for example Raise Ally, which allows him to resurrect his allies at 60% HP. Even if his immensely tanky friend Shirou or the now impossibly fast The Boss dies, Yu possesses the abilities to bring them back to life.

Without their now undead nature, these three would be hopelessly outmatched. However with their new forms and powers they've turned from fragile humans into inhumanly strong undead, with two of them gaining durability far beyond that of a regular human and one becoming impossibly fast. Together they now possess more than a chance to win this fight, they CAN win this fight.

FFDragon posted...

Basically, if you want the Wesker cocktail, make the Wesker cocktail clear but that is not flat Uroboros.

There's not really much to point to with Uroboros and say 'okay yes this is what it does."

Alrighty, it's not a hard switcheroo there. I'll make sure that's editted up.

And as for E-001, it's not the physical improvements but rather the clear and strong regeneration combined with Shirou's inherent physically taxing abilities and Avalon and I'm curious to see how people will respect him.

FFDragon posted...

well that's not uroborus

that's mixing with the birkin virus

so you may want to reword it

Going by the wiki entry on uroboros

http://residentevil.wikia.com/wiki/Uroboros_virus

For those whose genetic sequence is compatible with Uroboros, the merge is successful, bestowing superhuman abilities upon the host

When a human host successfully adapts to the virus, they retain their normal human form but become superhuman with increased strength, speed, durability, vitality and a strong regeneration ability. The only physical sign of mutation in an adapted host is the appearance of glowing slitted eyes, similar to those of a host successfully adapted to the Progenitor virus or the prototype t-virus variant Albert Wesker adapted to.

If you think it'd just be better to use the one Wesker was subjected to then I'd be fine doing that.

I'm going to be doing a topic against Kanzaris tomorrow! Going to be testing some buffing abilities that are more heavy on interpretation and the theme is undeath!

The Boss, Emiya Shirou and Yu Narukami VS Ashley Winchester, Nova and Terra
Duking it out on Narshe!

I think for most people at first sight the latter is going to stomp, right? But take a look at the write ups, hopefully we'll see more diversity of thought.

Yu Narukami (MC) is as he appears in Persona 4. He has the persona Izanagi-no-Okami available, with all default skills from P4 learned in addition to all the moves from Persona 4 Arena, with the exception of his mortal blow or gameplay mechanics (invincibility frames, etc). He also can freely switch to his persona Odin, who only has their natural non-passive skills and elemental affinities. Yu has gained the abilities of Shadow Yu, as seen in P4A:Ultimax, including the ability to access Shadow Fury mode. Yu has been transformed into a Death Knight, granting them World of Warcraft's three Death Knight specializations of Blood, Unholy and Frost as well as a Deathcharger mount. In addition, his weapon and armor have been inscribed with runes by the Lich King, granting his equipment the powers of a Death Knight's runescribed gear.

Shirou is as he appears in Fate/Stay Night, in the Unlimited Blade Works route. He does not have access to his Reality Marble. He has access to his rapid self-healing, due to his contract with Saber and Avalon. Shirou can trace Kansho & Bakuya, Yamato from Devil May Cry 4, Z-Saber from Megaman Zero 2 and Jack Backer's chainsaw-shears from Resident Evil 7, with Shirou being able to use the weapons with the same skill as their owners. He has been fully infested by E-001 to the extent of Jack Baker in Resident Evil 7, significantly improving his regenerative abilities, strength and durability. He may only regenerate from a lethal attack (to the brain or the heart) three times before he becomes vulnerable. He becomes aware of this upon the third death.

The Boss is as seen in Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater. She is armed with her Patriot machine gun with infinite ammo. The Boss has been chosen by the Uroboros Virus, providing her with an immense boost to her strength, agility and durability as well as red slitted eyes, with no additional negative side effects.

If any of these need clarification or whatnot, please say so now so I can edit it for the actual match.

DeathChicken posted...

Halfway wanted to give him River as an assist, but she could probably be a 4 on her own given what she does in Serenity

River would be really weird. With the right equipment and enemy mercenaries she could like, potentially be a 5-6. River with a lightsaber for example would be pretty ridiculous. But if she's just with herself and an axe she's kind of a 3 in my opinion.

The real question is,

Sora VS FATE LEONIDAS

KanzarisKelshen posted...

King Leonidas and his 300 Spartans

KanzarisKelshen posted...

King Leonidas I, is as seen in 300, accompanied by 299 elite Spartan soldiers.

Look, just call them The 300. Please. Otherwise it seems like there's 301 Spartans.

Honestly though this match is a genuine toss-up for me since Sora's durability is kind of ???. I'm just going to imagine that King Leonidas and he instead decide to talk it out with some gay undertones in their negotiations and decide to settle it one on one in a minigame fight since Leonidas isn't a bad guy.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Would you prefer 'Throw rings Stitch out of any terrain we're likely to have, next'

Thor's main appeal isn't really his strength though. Hits him out of the ring with the hammer? Sure, because the hammer is supernaturally heavy and Thor can only pick it up because he's chosen.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

it's literally 'Thor throws Stitch into the sun, next'

Thor isn't that strong, though I could certainly see a beatdown with the hammer or some electricity putting him down

Mac Arrowny posted...

It's ridiculous that a 1* Servant is somehow also my most powerful Servant.

Yeah, F/GO seriously makes sub 4 stars somewhat good. Leonidas for example can solo some events,Cu solos like half of them and if you buff-stack Arash enough he oneshots everything. EVERYTHING. Can do up to 4 million damage.

Kintoki's pretty absurdly good at this stage in the game. He's basically capable of oneshotting everyone if you have a waver on the frontline since he can get up to +50% NP instantly and comes inbuilt with an attack buff.

KommunistKoala posted...

but he's objectively a bad servant lore-wise

Nah, Kojiro's basically a swordgod. Even Gilgamesh wouldn't fight him in CQC. The only factor he's really gimped by is his sword, which isn't anything special.

However when supported by Caster, Kojirou even managed to repel Heracles in F/SN, for a limited time.

Kojirou is a great servant but one that needs back-up to truly shine. Unlike other servants he's not a mana drain and his NP is completely without cost to the servant or the master, making him one of the most efficient servants around. Couple that with his inherent abilities to hide his nature as a servant, his ability for an enemy never to gain an advantage over him and otherwise, Kojirou's a great servant. Just against someone like Karna, the real A+++ servants that could be summoned there's nothing he can really do.

But those servants also come at a major, major cost, one that might be even worse than Kojirou's downsides.

swordz9 posted...

I might be alone in this, but I don't care about any of the 1-2* Servants really. Caligula was pretty amusing during the Orion event, but I don't care enough about any of them to ever consider using them

Arash has a hilariously strong Noble Phantasm, which is kinda broken really. Leonidas with proper builds turn into a forever-tank that can never die ( ) and there's a bunch of other interesting things you can do with them too.

But yeah, I must admit I'm not too inspired with them either.

Tom Bombadil posted...

I remember somebody a while back saying that ascension items stop being a bottleneck at some point.

Basically all of the items you can get in the ascension item quest become things you can specifically grind for in lower AP places. For example in London there's easy Gears grind locations.

GANON1025 posted...

An .8% chance to specifically get Cooler is better a 1% chance to have a 60% chance at getting the banner SSR here.

See, I totally disagree here. In Dokkan you need a Cooler to make any of your PHY Extreme units even worthwhile for current events. If you don't have that leader that entire type of unit basically gets thrown into the trash. It's not a 1% chance for 0.8% chance for cooler, it's a 0.8% chance to have any of the PHY units you ever pull not be shit. On top of that, in Dokkan you not only need that 0.8% lead, you either need to spend months grinding for LRs or Strikes to make a worthwhile team or whale for a good pullable team to even be able to attempt a new event.

You simply cannot field a UR/LR lead with Ns and expect to win a new Dokkan event, especially on Super difficulty. Neither could you expect to do with a single N unit soloing the event. In F/GO, you can not only win the entire game with 1*s, there are several events you can outright solo with them. Couple that with servants like Robin, Cu and Arash who have ludicrous abilities that make them situationally as good as any 4 or 5 star unit.

And personally, I think F/GO is also more generous. Regardless of events, login-campaigns or story/interlude grinding you get 15 free pulls a month. It's been awhile since I've played Dokkan, but goddamn if their login bonuses were worthless.

swordz9 posted...

Tamamo's 3rd Ascension is an apron with her ass hanging out because it's too short >_>

No, that's a naked apron. It's meant to be like that.

Lopen posted...

Actually looking into her a bit I guess her special CE looks surprisingly unique compared to others I've seen and her NP actually does higher damage than the usual Buster AOE NPs (including Saber classic), so there's that.

She gets quite the animation upgrade soon too.