Board 8 > Hypothetical Mercs Topic, S2 Topic 2: Pure Imagination

(+) Yeah! (+)

DeathChicken posted...

but I can see the headache arguments versus that ("He doesn't have the Soul Reaver in this timeline ihopaihspgoih") coming a mile away

I already said I was wrong on that, in the thread even. Sorry, I misunderstood the lore.

That's not a bad idea...how's that sound to everyone else? Does it seem fair or a bit lopsided in one team's advantage?
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Here's my Ganondorf build idea. This was made before BotW came out, FYI so maybe Calamity Ganon could be added as a customization and perhaps guardians could pop up on the terrain as part of the ability upgrade

Ganondorf (Legend of Zelda Series)
Villainous Male Otherwordly
Upkeep: 3/Week
Min Bid: 63 GP

Ganondorf is as he appears in Hyrule Warriors, fully upgraded and wielding his best swords and trident (though they do not have any random modifiers) but none of the subweapons or potions. He additionally has all the abilities seen in Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess. He can transform into ____ Ganon form for the week.

Customization: Each week, Ganondorf's leader can pick which Ganon form he can take into battle:

- Four Swords Adventures Ganon
- Ocarina of Time Ganon
-Twilight Princess Ganon
-Hyrule Warriors Ganon (If this option is chosen during a low tier week, Ganondorf uses two slots if rostered)

The King of Evil (Passive)- As the King of Evil, Ganondorf is immune to any abilities used on him by heroic Mercs. This immunity only applies to single-target abilities and abilities which may target Ganondorf directly (like the Shell), not "blanket effect" abilities. If a single-target ability would be negated in this way, it fizzles and does not go on recharge.

Triforce of Power (Start of Battle)-When about to face defeat, Ganondorf can tap into the Triforce of Power to unleash his full strength. Once every 4 weeks, Ganondorf will revive immediately and permanently transform into his chosen Ganon form after being defeated in battle regardless of his state upon said defeat, and his opponents will not be aware of this until it happens.

UPGRADES:

(Ability Upgrade; 20 EXP)

Upon Ganondorf's defeat, the terrain will be laid to waste. Any buildings or structures in the terrain will be turned to rubble and the sky will darken. Ganondorf is immune to any damage from this destruction.

(New Abilities; 20 EXP)

You DARE Bring LIGHT Into My Lair? (Start of Battle)- Ganondorf will not take kindly to people trying to exploit his weakness in battle. Once every three weeks, Ganondorf's leader may select one enemy mercenary. If Ganondorf's team wins the terrain bid, Ganondorf will seal the merc's holy powers. The enemy cannot use any Light/Holy spells during battle, nor use any Light/Holy-attribute abilities and additionally any armor,weaponry, or items with Light/Holy attributes on them will be drained of their power (i.e. the Vampire Killer would be turned into a normal whip by this ability). This ability can also hit any merc with "Light" in their name, preventing them from using any magic in battle as well as the above effects.

... You Must DIE! (Results) - If Ganondorf's team is victorious, there is a 50% chance every merc hit with You DARE Bring LIGHT Into My Lair? will be injured.
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W-Well I thought it was good......
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My reaction to that build is ... You Must DIE!
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X_Dante_X posted...

FFD actually used the blue marine in forfeits to save money

I wanted a match in waterball so bad.
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up
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FFDragon posted...

X_Dante_X posted...

FFD actually used the blue marine in forfeits to save money

I wanted a match in waterball so bad.

Didn't we all?
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Aight, doing a few more today. Here goes...

Garen

mercs2015.pbworks.com/w/page/102176314/Garen

Garen shouldn't be in this game I don't think. He has exactly one interesting thing about him and it's his ult. Otherwise, he's an ultra-generic 'tanky dude in plate armor' and that's about it. Any interesting argument quirks come from his item build, which had no teeth thanks to a generic description instead of any specific stuff. Pass, IMO. Katarina is a better rep than him. Neat abilities but we can do better even if we're just fishing for League mercs.

Should He Stay?: No.

Garrus Vakarian

http://mercs2015.pbworks.com/w/page/104462227/Garrus%20Vakarian

Garrus is in a kinda weird position. Alany once argued with me about his place in the game, saying he was kind of the most generic Mass Effect guy, and I can't actually disagree with that very much. He's a very beloved character, but as a battleworth unit he's just there. Even if you look at Drak's journal, there's comments referring to 'and Garrus does something, kinda'. I'm not sure if he should stay - if you want a beloved character, Tali is almost as deserving on that front and her gimmick is much more unique, but maybe we can afford to keep him. Certainly nobody will go 'aww, why him of all people' at his inclusion. His abilities need work tho - Vagabond Justice was a very very clear throwaway and Archangel sort of didn't pan out very much at all.

Should He Stay?: Maybe? Kinda leaning no but I could see the argument for keeping him. Wrex and Shep get priority tho.

Geese Howard

http://mercs2015.pbworks.com/w/page/110118085/Geese%20Howard

FIGHTASS

I love KJH, who made this merc. He's my homie, he comes up with cool merc ideas, and his ability gimmicks aren't bad. That said, he definitely needs an editor. Issues of rule consistency are common with his builds (see: Bass.EXE), and nobody exemplifies this quite as well as Geese does. Fightass woulda been a great ability, had it not caused ssssooooo maaaaaany ability headaaaaaaches. I can't imagine how much Lopen must've started drinking when he realized he needed to do rulings for it. High Rise is kind of mediocre and I think we can do better, but honestly? I think we can keep Geese around if his Fightass is fixed up a bunch and he gets a new ability. People like him a lot, and the KoF battles gimmick is a strong one.

Should He Stay?: Probably.

Geralt

http://mercs2015.pbworks.com/w/page/109131577/Geralt

A total slam-dunk. I don't really have anything to say about Geralt. He was a sweet build top to bottom, The Witcher is a very hot property, and he has some very neat gimmicks between his traps, antimagic bombs and gish-y magic knight prowess. You could port this build over to a new game just about verbatim. I think the only thing I might tweak is his Game of Gwent EXP cost depending on when he's released.

Should He Stay?: Hard yes.
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Gilgamesh

"Enough expository banter! Now, we fight like men! And ladies! And ladies who dress like men! For Gilgamesh... IT IS MORPHING TIME!"

This guy. This fuckin' guy right here. How did it take FOUR GAMES of mercs for Gil to make it in? I don't get it, I really don't. He's so cool and fun and unique no matter what tier he fits into in terms of power. Either a top tier 3/week (honestly more of a 4 in battle power), a top tier 5 pushing into 6, or a solid 6/week flat out, Gilgamesh is an excellent addition to the game. His abilities are awesome, too - strong, unique, and quite fun and appropriate for his character. Really the only question with Gil is what power level you want to set him at - FF5/FF12 Gil is more of a 3.5/week, but FF13-2 Gil and especially FF14 Gilgamesh are more suited to mid or high tier. I think going with FF13-2 as a base with a bunch of extra skills added from FF14 is the best representation you can give him. People get hype for the quadruple assault rifles and rocket launchers, and his limit breaks and stuff are very cool.

Should He Stay?: Of course!

GLaDOS

http://mercs2015.pbworks.com/w/page/108442012/GLaDOS

A very solid PS. Thinking with portals is a bit gimmicky (it really really shines only if you have a team of melee beasts and ideally a teamwide disable like stomach cramps), but with two other nice abilities, GLaDOS is a very complete package. And she's a portal rep, too, so no reason not to put her in. The only real argument I see for changing her is if you want to make Atlas and P-Body into battlemercs/assist PSes in their own right. The rest is all good.

Should She Stay?: I'm making a note here: HUGE SUCCESS.

Glass Joe

http://mercs2015.pbworks.com/w/page/110119378/Glass%20Joe

Dante's M-M-M-Masterpiece. Nuff said.

Should He Stay?: Yes. Don't hit his jaw!

Golbez

http://mercs2015.pbworks.com/w/page/110076580/Golbez

In the exact same week we get Flynn and Grigori, filled to the brim with disgusting possession cheese, we get a fair possession mercenary...whom Gravy denied me, thus accidentally setting me up for a championship run I otherwise couldn't have pulled off, all thanks to getting Megaman for cheap. Whoops!

Seriously though, Golbez is a very good merc. The sole FF4 rep who will get respect without being in a party, with a pair of strong, unique abilities, he's good stuff. Really my only change would be to give him his Dissidia moveset - no reason not to, IMO, considering it confirms his swordsmanship being as solid as his magic. That's all.

Should He Stay?: Yes.
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Gordon Freeman

http://mercs2015.pbworks.com/w/page/101947969/Gordon%20Freeman

Why is Gordon's build so bad

Like I don't get the specific nerfing of leaving him with only 3 rockets, it's so weird

And his abilities really suck too - when all you got on the most vanilla 4/week gunner ever is a passive and a helmet, it's a wonder he ever got bought (with no helmet, no less!). Worst part is that he could totally have some nice abilities involving being the right man in the wrong place, or the One Free Man, or even the super gravity gun or something to make him good, but he doesn't. A gaming icon like him deserves better than this. RIP Gordon, never getting good abilities or a new game ever again. :(

Should He Stay?: Yes, but only with a total ability redesign IMO. His three M4 abilities could stay, but only as incidental freebies or cheap upgrades.

Grigori

http://mercs2015.pbworks.com/w/page/110076700/Grigori

Possession every four weeks. Disgusting stuff. Like, at least Tira + Morrigan shenannes required buying two mercs and paying extra money per usage, yo. This shit just ain't right.

Grigori is pretty much an awful battlemerc backed up by a broken, disgustingly broken ability. Possession is super good. Targetable possesion every four weeks as a BASE ability is unconscionable. I think the dragon itself is maybe a 5/week, maybe (real talk, would anybody super object to knocking him and Ridley down to 5/week? They feel like they belong there more than the tier of Samus, Master Chief and Kain). Adjusting him to be more fair would be a pretty good idea - Dragon's Dogma was pretty popular, he steals the show there, and we need more beefy mercs, it's just...they can't come with the most broken ability type in the game on a 3 week CD.

Should He Stay?: Probably, but with a nerfed ability and lowered upkeep.
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I mean I love Grigori, but he was argued on even footing with Sindragosa who was a 5, so yeah
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Geese meanwhile I don't remember getting any respect whatsoever. Like, whenever I had him in Fightass it became "Can these guys pull through while carrying an empty slot named Geese"

Rugal never did either for that matter. Fighting game characters don't get respect unless they're named Akuma or Nightmare (and to a lesser degree Terry)
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terry did work for me, in low though for what it's worth

and is the sexiest merc two contests running
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Garrus Vakarian

http://mercs2015.pbworks.com/w/page/104462227/Garrus%20Vakarian

Garrus is in a kinda weird position. Alany once argued with me about his place in the game, saying he was kind of the most generic Mass Effect guy, and I can't actually disagree with that very much. He's a very beloved character, but as a battleworth unit he's just there. Even if you look at Drak's journal, there's comments referring to 'and Garrus does something, kinda'. I'm not sure if he should stay - if you want a beloved character, Tali is almost as deserving on that front and her gimmick is much more unique, but maybe we can afford to keep him. Certainly nobody will go 'aww, why him of all people' at his inclusion. His abilities need work tho - Vagabond Justice was a very very clear throwaway and Archangel sort of didn't pan out very much at all.

I'm not sure Tali is going to be any better in that regard. If she's in Mercs, you'd have to take away her most interesting ability (AI hacking), and being a frail shotgun user isn't exactly a recipe for success. She has much better options for abilities, but I see her struggling to beat 5s.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Like I don't get the specific nerfing of leaving him with only 3 rockets, it's so weird

He can only carry 3 rockets in game, so maybe that's where that came from? I remember in Mercs 3 he had an upgrade where he could carry 10, so maybe that's why it specifies it? (And yes, I was totally going to send him back if Travis didn't turn out to actively hurt my team.)
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Gilgamesh was in M3 actually he just had a boring as hell build
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Tali has the ability to generate drones at least in ME2, right?

Regardless, I would prefer to see Tali/Mordin/Thane as a 5/week instead of holding all of the ME guys up in the 6/week bracket. Garrus is at the unfortunate sweet spot where he's not quite at the Shepard/Legion level of skill and not at the Wrex/Liara/Jack level of bringing something unique to the table, but his feats are WAY too good to drop him lower. Having a squadmate in a lower pool might at least create some diversity for the series.
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She does, I just don't know how much respect it's going to get. She gets a defensive drone in ME3, but she's got to be pretty close to the enemy for that one to do anything.

Also, I'm pretty sure Thane is a 6. He has biotics, and he's one of the last to die in the final phase of the suicide mission. Only Zaeed and Grunt outlast him. Shredder Ammo is really nice too, since most mercs are unshielded organics. The only real strike against him is he's limited to SMGs, but the rest of his ability set is good enough to overcome that.
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Tali is like a 4 tops imo.
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FFDragon posted...

Tali is like a 4 tops imo.

Not with AI hacking, which I would, in fact, absolutely give her. To me it's a Psycho Mantis kinda thing - if the character's whole gimmick is a thing we usually call gamebreaking but there's instances of no-sell in their own game, there is zero reason to strip it away. 'Can Tali hijack Zero?' is a fun debate IMO.

But yeah, I feel like Garrus is probably an Ike-style merc - he's not a true 6 but you can't really put him there without packing him with solid ability hax. Out of curiosity, who would you guys say should feature from ME in a hypothetical mercs 5? My initial shortlist...

-Shepard: Very obvious.
-Ryder: Apparently even stronger than Shep though has less feats. ME: Andromeda is fuckin ripe for ridiculous abilities too.
-Wrex: Debatable whether he should keep Stasis considering it's basically the 6/week version of Celes + Vanish, but his abilities are perfect and he's super well liked.
-Legion: Kind of takes the place of Garrus as the super sniper, but he's a much more interesting take on the concept. Also a robot, robots are certifiably 20% more hype than humans. Mech Dante would totally beat Base Dante, you know it.
-Liara T'Soni/Jack: An actual biotics specialist would be neat and Liara in particular has incredibly ability fodder potential.

You could make a decent argument for almost everyone except the bad ME1 squaddies and Jacob, though. I feel like anyone else would at least be greeted with some level of enthusiasm. Mordin nearly made the shortlist too, I just felt like it wouldn't really count as 'short' if I listed 6 mercs.
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I'd rather see Racter if we're going with someone plus a drone (also there are endless funny arguments fielding a genuine sociopath)
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If you're going purely by popularity, I found an article with a poll: http://www.pcgamer.com/ranking-the-best-and-worst-of-the-mass-effect-games/

Top 5 were Garrus, Tali, Mordin, Liara, Shepard (with Wrex as number 6). I think you could make a case for a lot of characters as long as it's not someone super unpopular, but any of those 6 sound good to me.
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I'd still take Tali as a 4 tbqh
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I agree Tali is a 4 unless she's fighting something she's designed to wreck. She's more of a 6 then. Overall not the best merc conceptually because of that, however. She might be better suited to some manner of form switching merc for the ME squadmates, particularly considering fellow rep Garrus is more of a situational merc too-- and so is Wrex in some ways while we're at it.
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dang it, forget those losers put in JAVIK
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only if he has the ability to throw people out of the airlock
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I was halfway to thinking about an Undyne merc, then realized Undertale combat is impossible to translate to a realtime setting. Lucky for all
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I tried to make Sans way back, but everyone pointed out that everything in that game is ????? in a Mercs setting (especially him). Best to make them Supports.
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DeathChicken posted...

I was halfway to thinking about an Undyne merc, then realized Undertale combat is impossible to translate to a realtime setting. Lucky for all

Yeah we had that discussion a while back. Undyne and Sans are the closest to being translatable, but even then it's a stretch

By my estimates though, Undyne is a 3 and Sans is a 5

trdl23 posted...

I tried to make Sans way back, but everyone pointed out that everything in that game is ????? in a Mercs setting (especially him). Best to make them Supports.

Did you make the CE Sans build?
http://mercsce.pbworks.com/w/page/109956037/Sans
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Will make a new topic for more buildz and discussion tomorrow

for now, let's just say I think I agree about making it a thing where you pick between the most iconic members of Shep's crew - it makes sense and kills multiple birds with one stone.
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Really want to make an Infinite build sometime but it might be awhile. Not a ton of free time and there's already several other B8 projects I'm behind on
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Yeah, I love the CE build. I really should clean it up though.
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rise
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https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/76193536

Plan is to do more commenting SOON.
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Topic is no longer available
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Weird, try this one?

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/76193541
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One last bump so I can save analysis and then we're good to go.
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sdf
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