Lurker > Advokaiser

King Kong > Godzilla confirmed.

Leonhart4 posted...

Chief > Samus huh

It's kind of surprising since Samus was extremely powerful in the previous rounds. Though it's not shocking since The Chief is a severely downgraded gaming icon here and Samus is probably stronger than ever.

We also have to take into account that there seems to not exist any kind of hierarchic rule, as proven by the Mario division with Ms. Pac-Man and Sephiroth. I'd rest assured Sephy would put at least 30% more directly on Mario.

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Master Chief vs. Samus, heck yeah.

OrangeCrush980 posted...

Mario 50.00%
Ms. Pac-Man 4.60%
Clementine 3.35%
Sephiroth 3.02%

Looks like a normal GameFAQs contest

I really laughed at this.

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You guys realize Bowser vs. Donkey Kong is the equivalent of the current Godzilla vs. King Kong debate, right?



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Question:

If we had an All Fictional Character Battle, would any of you be fine with the idea of Mike Tyson or Tony Hawk being in?

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Well, I don't know what's weirder - seeing Auron lose to John Price, or Samus totally obliterating Dante...

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I'd say Trevor > Franklin > Michael, in order of popularity.

Franklin might have rally potential due to the recent Lamar Roasts Franklin meme.

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Nope.

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So someone was talking about a Female Character Battle, huh?

*WaifuFAQs intensifies*

Zelda, Samus, you better watch your backs!

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We still haven't had the Gen 2 starters and I think they have potential.

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Chansey no contest

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KamikazePotato posted...

I dont think Ellie is a good barometer. The Last Of Us is a poisoned well. She'll be weaker, Joel will be weaker, and the original is probably even weaker than when it got dunked on by Dark Souls.

Ellie did look a bit stronger than Joel in the last character battle, so there's that at least to go off of.

Well, yeah, maybe it's not the best character to measure things up; but even though TLoU may be irreversibly cursed now (Joel will definitely fall a bunch), Ellie's character growth was still very well-liked by many.

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I can get behind Cammy. She also has the best Street Fighter II theme.

(Too bad that other cool girl fighters like Athena don't have any chance, though.)

LeonhartFour posted...

well again the X-Stats are screwy because Ganondorf's results are questionable at best

Raw X-Stat data says Sephiroth gets 57.52% on Ganondorf, which means Seph would get 65.09% on Chun-Li. He got 60.26% on Ryu, which means Ryu should get 56.08% on Chun-Li.

In this poll, Ryu is only getting 51.40% on Chun-Li. That means Ganondorf would get 57.73% on Ryu, which would give Ganondorf 47.01% on Sephiroth.

I'd argue Ken is seriously LFF'ing Ryu, so it still makes sense to me.

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I think that hypothesis may solidify depending on how Ellie performs next contest.

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Yeah, we're basically approaching WaifuFAQs.

(Which I'm fine, tbh)

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If Cammy was in the poll, things would become pretty interesting.

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Oh hey, a YouTube poll!



(Don't mind my vote, I just wanted to know the percentage.)

(Also don't mind my favorite Pokmon on screen.)

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colliding posted...

reading Christian symbolism into anything is really 1950's era English paper scholarship. anything and everything can be read as a religious allegory and it's never interesting. hope this is the feedback you're looking for.

Any feedback is welcome.

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Bump

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

we're talking about the guy who made I'm Having a Baby (And the Baby is You), I doubt he is going hard on Christian symbolism

I mean, I'm aware Undertale features a romance between a female fish and a female lizard, so I'm not saying Toby Fox is a Christian or anything. It just somehow fits in my eyes (at least that particular bit of the ending).

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Any more thoughts?

Plausible?

Too farfetched?

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Bump

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Spoilery endgame images and text inside. Proceed with caution.

It's been a year since I've last finished Undertale, so this wasn't something that came up on my mind until just recently. After putting some thought into it, more details caught my attention. I don't know if this has been discussed elsewhere (here, on YouTube, etc.), but I'm going to point it out anyway, in case it hasn't been already.

So after you defeat the final boss of the Pacifist route, Asriel uses the power of all the souls to destroy the barrier. He levitates and T-poses as he releases every single soul, and immediately after, the barrier gets shattered and everyone trapped in the underground is now free to come up to the surface:





(I'm gonna start removing spoiler tags from now on, since we're going in-depth on them.)

What strikes me as odd is how much it resembles... well, the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

1. The T-pose itself, while maybe not something that could catch your attention right away (given how memefied it has become over the last few years), could be considered as a first, right-of-the-bat indicator.
2. As you can see above, Frisk and Asriel are in a complete void, lacking any sort of light. When Jesus Christ was dying, something similar occurred: "And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour." -Mark 15:33
3. There's not a single soul in the Underground that isn't held hostage by Flowey/Asriel once he absorbs them, except for Frisk. (Sure, Napstablook somehow missed the boat, but that's another discussion.) Additionally, Asriel practically sacrifices himself in order to shatter the barrier. Only the power of 7 human souls can get the job done, and since he has no soul of his own, he has to use the ones inside him in order to do it. Once he does, he becomes a flower again. He had the option not to do so, though... After all, he could have kept the souls for himself. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. [...] And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die." - John 12:24, 32-33 (Fun fact: According to the Bible, God doesn't have a soul, since he is Spirit. Only humans have souls.)
4. Another very important and interesting detail is just how the barrier gets destroyed: it receives a vertical crack that opens up the barrier completely. Right after Jesus died, this happened: "And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom." -Mark 15:38 (The veil represents the separation between men and God: "But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear." -Isaiah 59:2)
5. As you know, anyone can enter the barrier, but no one can exit. What could this represent? Well, the barrier is the human condition as sinners: "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" -Romans 3:23
6. The only way that anyone --including Frisk-- could have left the underground and come to the surface, without any monster getting killed in the process, was the way Asriel did it... Or should I say, through Asriel's sacrifice: "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." -John 14:6

Basically, God's plan for the salvation of men could be read through Undertale's ending.

What do you guys think?

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Safer_777 posted...

I know not all games are for everyone but Animal Crossing for Switch has sold over 31 million units. Seriously?

What I've seen with Animal Crossing is that it's one of those games that are actually indeed meant for everyone, even if it's leaned more towards being casual. It may not be GOAT material, but it's an extremely accessible game (a friend of mine says it's very relaxing to play it), and I haven't met a single person who dislikes it.

It's somewhat like Mario in terms of universal appeal, but lighter and more casual-friendly.

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So here's an interesting question:

How would Castlevania: SotN fare against Super Metroid?

Given that those two games are the ones who specifically gave birth to a specific genre in gaming (and they're the strongest games in their respective franchises by a mile, too), would there be any kind of SFF, or SFF resistance?

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https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/79251122

Interesting.

(Small sample in a 5-way, but hey, something's something!)

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A properly handled Sonic Adventure 3 could shake things up, though.

I think both Sonic and Kirby games have a lot of hidden potential. I'd love to see an actual 3D Kirby Adventure.

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LinkMarioSamus posted...

True, Sonic '06 was about to come out. 2006 was probably Sonic's best year in these contests, featuring his only 1v1 win over another Noble Niner IIRC (poor Crono!).

Oh, I was actually saying that more like Sonic's greatest tragedy was just taking place, but I guess I don't have the correct notion of time, lol.

Leonhart4 posted...

There has been one!

Is it Sonic Colors?

I heard it was supposed to break the Sonic cycle, and its reception... Well, it was good! But maybe not Sonic-cycle-breaking good.

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LinkMarioSamus posted...

I specifically singled out Sonic as a character who has suffered in these contests due to a glut of bad games. He performed worse against Snake in 2018 than he did in 2006, even though the latter was right after the Brawl/MGS4 announcements while the latter happened when Metal Gear was basically dead. Unless you think Snake scored some bizarre form of Smash Guest Character SFF on Sonic.

And Sonic '06 was also just hitting!

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LinkMarioSamus posted...

But then how are some characters affected by droughts of games (or loads of bad games) more than others? Sonic suffers under the weight of so many bad games, so do the Resident Evil characters, and Gordon Freeman reverts back to fodder after Half-Life 3 gets postponed indefinitely plus Metal Gear characters dropping after their franchise is killed, but then Crono is still good with only a single game appearance to his name and Samus is top tier despite her series being effectively dormant in the 2010s.

I think it really depends on the character we're talking about.

For example, Crono remaining solid makes sense considering his game hasn't been forgotten; on the contrary, it's stronger than ever. If it received a really bad sequel, though, he could be highly susceptible to some damage, as with pretty much every character (except Sonic, for some reason).

Also, female characters in general (especially attractive ones) have become stronger or more popular lately. You can see it with Samus, Tifa, 2B, etc (can't wait to see Shanoa in action!).

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No way Cloud loses to Samus. At least not 1v1.

If Zelda was playable in BotW2, though... we might as well give her Link's spot in the N9.

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KamikazePotato posted...

Link should be the final bonus match and that's it. There's no justification for having him trivialize any number of matches more than that, and there hasn't been since 2006. The only thing that beats Link anymore is a rally.

Link vs. Link mini bracket + Link's multiple incarnations vs. the Division winners should be the way to go!

Actually, let's rank Links!

Classic Link (Zelda I & II)
CD-I Link
Young Link*
Adult Link*
LA Link
Toon Link
TP Link
BotW Link

*I'm separating OoT Link a la Melee so he doesn't get uber-broken.

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Leonhart4 posted...

Also I can't believe this still needs to be said but characters =/= games

DK was just a beast in 2018, and Crash was surprisingly really good that year. Their games will still be mediocre in a contest.

Characters games, yeah, but a good game seems to pretty much boost a character by default. We've seen it with Smash characters, Crash, Spyro, DK, Zelda, etc. Sure, Crash: N Sane Trilogy and DKC: Tropical Freeze may not be worth much, but I definitely see them as direct boosters for Crash and DK respectively.

As far as game deboost = character deboost... I can't think of an actual example. Perhaps Shepard? Even though ME2 specifically remains quite strong...

Squall?

As far as Vivi beasting in 2018, I'm pretty sure it has to do with a FFIX resurgence. I forgot completely that FFX nearly doubled FFIX 10 years ago, and then OoT had a similar result against it 5 years later.

WHICH MEANS...

A FFX/FFIX rematch is gonna be pretty interesting.

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Great_Paul posted...

It's probably the MCU D+ show that I'm least excited for, but I'll still watch it.

Wait...

There's more MCU shows other than WV in Disney+?

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charmander6000 posted...

2 month contest

I don't remember the duration of every contest we've had, but the only gripe I had with GotD1 was that it felt too long, and I think that one lasted 2 months, unless I'm mistaken. A very long contest can feel kind of tiresome.

Elite 8 sounds good for the switch, though.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

It makes contests more fun and increases vote totals. This isnt even debatable.

The problem with massive rallies is that they are extremely intrusive nowadays.

Imagine if you had a nice meeting at your house and suddenly some weird strangers decided to come in as well. At that point you may be like: Well, you can hang around, I guess and you welcome them cautiously, but they start bringing more and more people to the point where some of them start breaking your souvenirs, emptying your fridge without permission and even peeing on your carpet. Rallies are sometimes that bad.

We're not against ralliers per se we're against people who have no intention whatsoever of participating in contests like civilized people and become part of our community.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

Until the anti-rally garbage is removed, contests are pointless. Polls with 20k voters are beyond boring.

You can thank the anti-fun brigade for contests being awful.

Alright, next Best. Game. Ever. contest, I'm gonna make sure Shadow of the Colossus and Hearthstone get rallied all the way to the final and you'll have to be forced to vote for one of them.

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LinkMarioSamus is the most underrated Board 8 user by far. He makes very good points for discussion and witty commentaries while nobody else cares for them, for some reason that I still haven't been able to grasp in the last 10 years.

Rivalry Rumble and BYIG were also massively underrated (especially the latter though you could make a case for its mismanagement but that's not the point).

And I wasn't around for Series, but it surely was underrated too!

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MetalmindStats posted...

I'm confused about what you think has changed between GotD, where Undertale notably didn't catch any rallies of even slight significance, and now.

Leonhart4 posted...

I would. Tumblr doesn't exist the way it did in 2015. Did you see anything resembling a rally when it was losing round 1 in GotD2?

I'm aware of that. Just as I'm aware Draven got utterly destroyed in 2018 with no signs of any outsider caring for him.

My point is that danger is always latent for rallyable entries. It's just a matter of them managing to get traction or not.

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Leonhart4 posted...

It would beat Undertale now!

Um... I wouldn't count on a rallyless Undertale in a current setting. If anything, it seems to be even more dangerous thanks to all its exposure, spiritual sequel in development, Sans in Smash, etc.

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If we ever see Galaxy > KHII, we need to see GTAIV vs. MGS4!

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Oh yeah Melee rallies. Without them I'd take it to lose to Wind Waker by now. Wouldn't take Mario Galaxy over KH2 but I think it would get closer than you might think. I would take MGS1/3 over KH2, Metroid Prime vs. either KH might be a good match.

True.

The only thing I disagree with is Melee not being strong anymore without rallies. The game has stayed surprisingly relevant and respected throughout the years. I don't see Melee weakening at all since its very first contest appearance. It seems to be one of those select games whose staying power will remain the same throughout the decades.

Melee easily beats Wind Waker.

For what it's worth, if you take my adjusted 2015 stats and hold Galaxy 2 constant between 2015 and 2020, The Witcher 3 gets 63% on its 2015 self (!), Skyrim gets 44% on its 2015 self, and Dark Souls gets 58% on its 2015 self. The Last of Us and Arkham City actually didn't decline much and MGSV amazingly managed to increase ever so slightly. Based on this TLOU's bad loss to Dark Souls is more the latter going nuts and less the former dropping.

Wow, those are some quite amazing stats!

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Seanchan posted...

My gut thought is Galaxy > Melee > KH2.

No idea if the "numbers" back me up but that's what I'd go with without thinking too hard. I do imagine there's not a tremendous gap between the three but Galaxy just had a re-release.

You're facing a problem very similar to when I thought way back San Andreas could beat FFX the former may have one of the biggest overall playrates and relative popularity, but it doesn't truly translate to contest strength, mainly because of the site's bias.

Galaxy > Melee would pretty much imply that's the strongest 3D Mario game, but it's really not, even if it has every reason to be. Every reason, except nostalgia (which is what applies to SM64 in this case).

The Switch re-release doesn't really do much because those are games that pretty much everyone has already played by now and are very well-known.

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Huh... Just checked and you're right. Interesting.

Guess I get carried away with Sora hate + series' (partial) decline.

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MetalmindStats posted...

are you really going to take 40% on Super Mario Galaxy over 41% on Kingdom Hearts II?

That sounds like a trick question... 'cause I'd surely take SMG over KHII.

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swirIdude posted...

I often don't remember to visit the front page if it's not contest season.

Wow, seriously? First thing I do when checking GameFAQs on a daily basis is vote in the poll and see the most popular topics from the games that are in it (Smash, Cyberpunk, Fate G/O, etc. Actually, it's weird seeing Fate G/O, FE:Heroes and FF Brave Exvius/Record Keeper that much on the front page...).

Lightning Strikes posted...

Its a shame there was no ALBW vs. TLOU poll. Based on FO3/MGS4/SSBB and RDR2/GoW/SSBU, Id say ALBW wins with 51-53%.

Back then or now? Back then I wouldn't have given ALBW more than 51%. Nowadays I'd say 55%.

Okay! So:

Metal Gear Solid IV
Fallout 3
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Grand Theft Auto IV
Persona 4

How would you rank them in terms of 2021 strength?

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Too many things addressed in the last 50+ posts:

pjbasis posted...

Ghost of Tsushima vs Pokemon Sun/Moon who ya got

I wouldn't be surprised if Ghost of Tsushima pushes 70% on Gen 7.

FFXV and Pokmon S/M have aged like milk.

LusterSoldier posted...

2008 - 52.10% for Super Smash Bros. Brawl over Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots

Man! Who would've thought Persona 4 would surpass these two games a decade later?

2008 was such a strong year back in the day, and now pretty much nothing from that year is worth a thing in this day and age. Unless I'm forg-- Oh wait! There's Fallout 3... I still wonder why it's the strongest in the series.

As far as votals go...

You can see how Allen is constantly trying to improve the site, but some things sure need to be prioritized if we specifically want new blood around here. Contests' awareness is the main thing. Sure, it's awesome to have cool new features over the whole site, but they seem to just affect regular users instead of attracting passersby.

Other than that, if message boards are truly not that appealing anymore, then there's not much that can be done. But there's still potential in the previous things.

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Leonhart4 posted...

Weak is a relative term, of course. OoT was dominant in 2009, and it legitimately looked like it could lose to CT in 2015.

I think you're underestimating how strong Chrono Trigger has become over the past decade. Just look at the gap between OoT and the rest of the field.

If any game looked "weak" in 2015 was FFVII (and arguably Skyrim).

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1) Chrono Trigger 48.93
2) The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 47.95
3) Final Fantasy VII 44.59
4) Pokmon Red & Blue 43.26
5) The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 42.68

If these adjustments are accurate, how in the world would people say with a straight face that this was a weak OoT?

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New Horizons seems to be the pinnacle of Animal Crossing. People who have played the game, really, really love it, for some reason.

It seems to be a game for everyone, much like Mario games.

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Wait... Doom Eternal didn't show up either? Despite being more popular than its 2016 predecessor?

No, guys, there's no way Allen will exclude that many games... Maybe there will be more polls before the actual GOTY ones?

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I'm actually quite surprised Hades isn't weaker than Nioh 2 or Dying Light 2, given how extremely niche it is.

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