Lurker > A_A_Battery

tankboy posted...

It's a mistake to think the US support for Israel is somehow based on appeasing the tiny minority of voters who are Jewish or the (much larger) portion who are Christian fundamentalists. The hard truth is that even if AIPAC didn't exist, even if no Jews lived in Israel, and even if biblical stories took place in Hoboken, the US would still support Israel. It is simply in US strategic interests to have a Western-ish ally, technology center, and military testbed, in the area. It's kind of like the flip side of why no Arab countries seriously support the Palestinians -- there's nothing in it for them.

I agree with that. Really, israel is the US' 51st state in the middle east, and given its proximity, it's a more "mask off" version of the US which has always been genocidal. The US did kill 4.5-5 million Muslims in the middle east since the first Iraq war according to a study conducted at Brown University. The source of a lot of anti-Muslim propaganda originates from israel, and natenyahu is the one who originated the idea that Islam has the terrorism problem in 1984 in order to dehumanize Muslims/Arabs/Palestinians, while somehow the west and israel are the one that managed to kill millions. It's weird. (See video below)

This is a reddit post that shows some of the atrocities israel has had a hand in:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/1auklvk/israel_is_involved_with_global_oppression_not/

The US can't constantly be arming death squads and staging coups in places like Latin America. Too big a blow to its reputation and the illusion of the "rules based order" (which of course has fallen apart, thanks israel). So it pulls its lever, israel. This is why biden states "if there was not an israel, we would have to invent an israel". It's this really stupid stage play that I really don't understand how it fools anyone.

Apart from all that, it's a great money laundering tool. You get to kill all the brown people you hate, steal all the taxpayer money of the "hard working American public", send it to israel, who then buy back weapons from your elites whose business is death and destruction.

Yeah, the US doesn't want to lose its "best investment in history" as biden puts it (biden being AIPAC's most donated to candidate in history btw), certainly not for the people of Gaza.

But hey, aparthied south africa (also supported by israel) fell, and so too will israel, the cracks are showing. This zionist ethnostate bullshit is not sustainable.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/MbHGPGqXIeg

LonelyStoner posted...

His policies are at least far more progressive than Bidens.

If he can make it on the ballot, those who refuse to vote for biden can vote for him instead. He is a pro-israel zionist to be sure, but I doubt he'd give israel a check as blank as the one biden is giving them. Then again, who knows, in the US I'm not really used to presidents not disappointing.

ironman2009 posted...

Something tells me Bernie would be a big Israel supporter too.

He is. He openly and clearly stated that Palestinians should not be allowed to vote in israel and be granted citizenship because then it would "cease to be a jewish state". Meaning, purely based on race, israel should be an apartheid.

Tanthalas posted...

Arent you the guy that celebrated the US withdrawal from Afghanistan, and was all excited that the western culture lost regardless of the more than obvious return of the atrocities of the Taliban against women?

Yeah, Im not surprised that youre campaigning for Trump.

Aren't you the guy who just makes up positions for people he doesn't like then lies about it? Glad to see you haven't changed.

Also you're right, the US should have stayed in Afghanistan bombing weddings. Was really serving US interests, that. Went towards student loan forgiveness, free healthcare, actual updates to infrastructure, the works. You know, just like the billions in aid to israel do, which no doubt you are in full support of.

LightHawKnight posted...

And so people rather have US soldiers doing the kill eh.

Uhh, they're already doing it. There have been reports of US special forces on the ground, and of course every other israeli has dual citizenship, so US citizens can go kill civilians in gaza and take pictures next to murdered women's underwear, and then go right back to being your neighbor in new york.

Biden surely isn't stopping that.

Also worth noting, not all of those who oppose biden politically are pro-israel, so there is that which contributes to the possibility that things will either not get worse, or even have a very small chance of being very slightly less worse. You already know what's gonna happen with biden, and it's awful. A technically unknown might still be a better gamble when you couple it with the fact that you showed the world that a genocide did not go unpunished.

LightHawKnight posted...

So what kind of drugs are people smoking to think the orange idiot isnt going to be worse? He literally said he would help Israel finish the job. He is going to send US soldiers to assist. That is much much much worse.

They don't think he's not going to be worse. They just don't see how he can be worse, it's already as bad as it gets and getting worse. Israel is planning a 6 month long Al Shifa like operation where they kill and rape people in Rafah for 6 whole months in a seige, trying to force them into egypt.

Biden is going to sign off on that.

Now. No one is saying trump won't do the same. But you still gain the main idea: Biden supported genocide, he lost. Thus, supporting genocide has consequences. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp.

The alternative is: Supporting genocide is perfectly fine. Have 4 more years of biden giving israel a blank check at the expense of the world, and literally not a single person did anything about it. At least just for optics, it looks better for him to lose anything for his actions. You don't let shit like this go unpunished, even if you burn for it. That's the logic.

LightHawKnight posted...

Dont get why people want the orange idiot to win. He literally said that he would help Israel finish the job.

Nobody wants him to win. They just believe that it's a consequence worth risking to not let supporting a genocide go unpunished, and that this is a move that considers the long term, not the immediate short term (these next 4 years).

They also do not really see how much worse trump can make Gaza, it's clear the israeli objective is to kill as many people there as humanly possible, and then displace the rest. If that fails, to install some occupation force over them that will be conducting the genocide more slowly. Biden is willing to sign off on all of that. He is not willing to lift even half a finger to put any limiation whatsoever on israel.

So you have on one hand, guaranteed shittiness on biden's part, and then on the other hand, you have punishing biden, and a 99.9999% chance trump will be just as bad as biden.

You gain: 0.0001 % chance of trump not being as bad as biden on Gaza (under the logic that anything in the universe is technically possible), and more importantly, you establish the idea: support genocide, and you lose for it. The end. It is a position that requires some degree self sacrifice.

hockeybabe89 posted...

Those people are fucking stupid. Biden is less bad than Trump. There is no third option. Nothing else matters.

Everyone is going to fucking die if Trump wins and there will never be another election for the Democrats or anyone else to learn from.

I spit on the principles of these non-voters. Bunch of short-sighted, single-issue idiots voting off illogical premises. They have no more place participating in our democracy than Trump voters. Gonna kill tens to hundreds of millions of people and end a country because Joe Biden won't end America's 70+ years of funding genocide in Israel.

If Biden hurts Gaza and Trump hurts Gaza and America, and you know no other candidate has a path to victory, how do you not simply pick the option that kills the least people? You're saying death is inevitable, so damage mitigation should be the name of the game If you vote, you're responsible for the consequences, but not the consequences of you not voting? How does that logic work?

Good people with good principles don't get tired and say "Fuck it. Let's all die" because some people are dying. Not voting isn't a valiant protest. It's quitting.

First they're not saying don't vote, they're gonna vote some non-genocidal candidate that would win if all the "we have to vote for biden..." people actually voted for, but that'll never happen so pointless to discuss.

But the rest of what you said, yeah no one actually believes that will happen though. Literally no one believes that if trump gains power, the US is going to switch to being in sepia tone, nazis with red arm bands will be marching up and down the streets, pogroms, and then they attack poland. No. Instead, they just believe they will get "slightly worse than biden" for president, and you gotta put up with him for 4 years till he buggers right back off because he's already had a first term.

Let's just face it, both options are so bad, they kind of melt into each other. The 2 party system is a complete sham, and the overall situation is not really going to be any different depending on who gets power. The corporations that decide what's good for domestic policy are still going to be bribing your elected politician, and AIPAC is still going to be dictating a lot of the foreign policy in the middle east where the US screws up a lot.

Otherwise, both trump and biden are the same where it really matters to the world at large, foreign policy. Both of them have the potential to steer us into a nuclear apocalypse, and that's really the only scenario that will bring about a reality similar to the exaggerated one you described.

kirbymuncher posted...

honestly with all the stuff going on around israel / hamas / palestine recently, I'm starting to feel more and more like "war crimes" are just some sort of collective figment of imagination, since it's sort of clear that the few entities who would be actually capable of enforcing them don't actually care

The standards were never high, but israel lowered them to extreme levels and the world will continue to get worse as a result.

videospirit posted...

This sounds psychotic. Did you even spend the time to imagine what would happen if you completely disarmed Israel?

Because thinking of what would happen and than going "Yeah, that sounds great" is psychotic.

No more genocide being streamed live as an entire population cheers it on is what would happen.

No one is going to outdo this, and these are the people in power in israel today and gaining support. Ben gvirs teacher:

https://youtu.be/oPzjvmFZ1B4?feature=shared

ben gvirs popularity in israel is rising.

Hornezz posted...

Anyone who's truly concerned about a second Trump presidency should join in on pressuring Biden to pivot on this matter.

Before casually threatening anti-genocide protestors with Trump concentration camps, you should really first prove that sending billions worth of bombs to Israel is actually necessary to prevent a Trump win.

Exactly. The existence of such logic is abandon biden at work, since its the intended effect.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Already have US troops in israel among those from other countries including ukraine.

Already very difficult for anyone to get into the US.

Cant deport US citizens. Have never heard of US citizens being put in concentration camps in the US.

So we still have: confirmed genocide full supporter not getting punished vs lunatic who will most likely continue supporting genocide, but a lesson is taught and even he might not support it in 4 years if he fears it costing him an election. Also pressures everyone else to stop supporting genocide, including dems who do.

Also no one is saying vote trump anyway. Not voting for genocide joe is the point of abandon biden, not re-electing trump. Sure that may be a potential consequence, but the objective of the movement is unrelated to that. The people behind it will be the first to suffer under trump, but they say its worth it to punish genocide support. Its a life or death issue, for obvious reasons.

Umbreon posted...

You're a known Trump supporter, are you not? Your words ring hollow. Especially when you're comfortable with the possibility of a man who OPENLY said he wants to be a dictator and quotes Hitler winning the election.

"What more can Trump do?" Start having American citizens who voted against him killed for starters. Ukraine is fucked as well under a Trump victory (We'll probably be helping Russia wipe them out).

There's a possibility, miniscule it may be, to convince Biden to call for a stop to this senseless murder. Trump will probably help bomb innocent citizens depending on how much he profits from it.

Where does Trump have hotels at again?

Im not a trump supporter.

Biden gave israel carte blanche. Kill whoever you want, maim, pillage, post your warcrimes online, kill children point blank on camera, target hospitals for days on end killing/raping people inside, leaving hundreds of maggot ridden bodies of babies and charred corpses, wtf more can trump do? He will support the genocide even more? Explain how thats even possible.

No, letting anyone responsible for the above go unpunished is the worse outcome, even if it means trump. Because the message supporting genocides costs you elections is better than the alternative in the long term. Everyone will think twice before doing it again and thats the logic people not voting biden have.

X8Azazel8X posted...

Hamas didnt i dunno kill food aid woekers steal the food and supplies for themselves ever before that though.

The problem with all these claims is:

1. We see israel doing exactly what you state, just yesterday the most recent example
2. The claim originates from the people dehumanizing a population so they can continue a genocide.

You're not a reliable source of information, neither are your accusations. When a third, unbiased, non-zionist affiliated party finds otherwise, then maybe we can start considering it. Otherwise, it's just genocide justification propaganda. Aka, hasbara.

X8Azazel8X posted...

Oh i think you can tell if you have basic reading skills....its just hard through the self righteous haze.

Right and this began in 1967 you said? How many raped mudered and kidnapped by hamas were involved in taking the hostages held by isreal in your version of history?

Pretending there isnt an obvious difference there.....not a great look.

This is just atrocity propaganda used to justify genocide, when the actual truth looks more like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Owa90I77sE

CommonStar posted...

https://twitter.com/ytirawi/status/1774912680173650390

Pariah state gonna pariah.

And the citizens of all these governments are using their tax dollars to fund the very thing that murdered them without a single care. Not that they haven't murdered tons of Americans as well.

CommonStar posted...

There are images coming out of Al Shifa showing bodies of Palestinians with arms and legs tied behind their backs having been bulldozed by Israel.

And many corpses that are charred, and were clearly executed/set on fire.

This entire genocide is the worst thing that has happened in our time, but I think what they've done in Al Shifa hospital may well be the worst war crime of the past 50 years or so.