Current Events > Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Well 0 people will vote Republican instead of Democrat because of his support for Israel, and a non 0 amount of people would do the reverse if he told Israel to go fuck themselves.

So it's unlikely. The types who consider Israel Genocidal fascist assholes aren't inclined to vote for either party to begin with.

I don't know if it will or not, it might though. He's alienating a lot of the youth and a chunk of the immigrant vote.

Before Israel started (and I use the word started about as loosely as humanly possible) their genocide I felt confident that Biden was a lock if Trump was who he was running against, now though? I really don't know who's going to win.

Biden could still fix this but I have strong doubts that he will.

Is there a substantial group in the states that cares enough about this conflict to let it influence elections? That seems pretty strange to me.

Zwijn posted...

Is there a substantial group in the states that cares enough about this conflict to let it influence elections? That seems pretty strange to me.

It doesn't take an absolutely huge number of people in certain states to swing the vote one way or the other, this absolutely can cost Biden the election.

Enclave posted...

It doesn't take an absolutely huge number of people in certain states to swing the vote one way or the other, this absolutely can cost Biden the election.

Oh yeah forgot about that system. Cant believe some parties in Europe want to adopt it.

Support for Israel military actions among American voters has been on a steady decline over the past few months. Last week's Gallup poll:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/e75c8b48.png

I know CE loves to repeat the claim that Biden has no choice other than to keep arming Israel, otherwise he'd lose the election but there's no truth to that whatsoever. Biden's handling of this issue is met with disapproval, especially by young and non-white voters: groups more likely to stay at home during elections.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/f70ab915.png

Anyone who's truly concerned about a second Trump presidency should join in on pressuring Biden to pivot on this matter.

Before casually threatening anti-genocide protestors with Trump concentration camps, you should really first prove that sending billions worth of bombs to Israel is actually necessary to prevent a Trump win.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-poll-biden-war-gaza-4159b28d313c6c37abdb7f14162bcdd1

videospirit posted...

The types who consider Israel Genocidal fascist assholes aren't inclined to vote for either party to begin with.

Those types would be 50% of Biden voters:
https://www.businessinsider.com/half-biden-voters-israel-genocide-palestinians-gaza-poll-2024-1?op=1&r=US&IR=T

Yeah. Biden had a very narrow electoral college victory in 2020 and I can totally see him losing enough voters to help Trump win.

I think Americans should vote for Biden because they have no other choice that isn't orders of magnitude worse for the Palestinians, and everyone else who isn't a rich white Christian.

But fuck him for his weakness in opposing Netanyahu, and his continued supply of weapons to Israel.

He has gone from being a president who exceeded expectations, to one who will be remembered as complicit in a genocide.

Umbreon posted...

You're a known Trump supporter, are you not? Your words ring hollow. Especially when you're comfortable with the possibility of a man who OPENLY said he wants to be a dictator and quotes Hitler winning the election.

"What more can Trump do?" Start having American citizens who voted against him killed for starters. Ukraine is fucked as well under a Trump victory (We'll probably be helping Russia wipe them out).

There's a possibility, miniscule it may be, to convince Biden to call for a stop to this senseless murder. Trump will probably help bomb innocent citizens depending on how much he profits from it.

Where does Trump have hotels at again?

Im not a trump supporter.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Already have US troops in israel among those from other countries including ukraine.

Already very difficult for anyone to get into the US.

Cant deport US citizens. Have never heard of US citizens being put in concentration camps in the US.

So we still have: confirmed genocide full supporter not getting punished vs lunatic who will most likely continue supporting genocide, but a lesson is taught and even he might not support it in 4 years if he fears it costing him an election. Also pressures everyone else to stop supporting genocide, including dems who do.

Also no one is saying vote trump anyway. Not voting for genocide joe is the point of abandon biden, not re-electing trump. Sure that may be a potential consequence, but the objective of the movement is unrelated to that. The people behind it will be the first to suffer under trump, but they say its worth it to punish genocide support. Its a life or death issue, for obvious reasons.

Hornezz posted...

Anyone who's truly concerned about a second Trump presidency should join in on pressuring Biden to pivot on this matter.

Before casually threatening anti-genocide protestors with Trump concentration camps, you should really first prove that sending billions worth of bombs to Israel is actually necessary to prevent a Trump win.

Exactly. The existence of such logic is abandon biden at work, since its the intended effect.

I am voting for Biden with zero regret, because although the war in Gaza is really terrible, an existential threat to my own country has precedence over people in a far-away place. It's harsh, but anything else would be self-destructive.

A_A_Battery posted...

Also no one is saying vote trump anyway. Not voting for genocide joe is the point of abandon biden, not re-electing trump. Sure that may be a potential consequence, but the objective of the movement is unrelated to that. The people behind it will be the first to suffer under trump, but they say its worth it to punish genocide support. Its a life or death issue, for obvious reasons.

Those people are fucking stupid. Biden is less bad than Trump. There is no third option. Nothing else matters.

Everyone is going to fucking die if Trump wins and there will never be another election for the Democrats or anyone else to learn from.

I spit on the principles of these non-voters. Bunch of short-sighted, single-issue idiots voting off illogical premises. They have no more place participating in our democracy than Trump voters. Gonna kill tens to hundreds of millions of people and end a country because Joe Biden won't end America's 70+ years of funding genocide in Israel.

If Biden hurts Gaza and Trump hurts Gaza and America, and you know no other candidate has a path to victory, how do you not simply pick the option that kills the least people? You're saying death is inevitable, so damage mitigation should be the name of the game If you vote, you're responsible for the consequences, but not the consequences of you not voting? How does that logic work?

Good people with good principles don't get tired and say "Fuck it. Let's all die" because some people are dying. Not voting isn't a valiant protest. It's quitting.

ButteryMales posted...

This year it is.

Still no.

hockeybabe89 posted...

Those people are fucking stupid. Biden is less bad than Trump. There is no third option. Nothing else matters.

Everyone is going to fucking die if Trump wins and there will never be another election for the Democrats or anyone else to learn from.

I spit on the principles of these non-voters. Bunch of short-sighted, single-issue idiots voting off illogical premises. They have no more place participating in our democracy than Trump voters. Gonna kill tens to hundreds of millions of people and end a country because Joe Biden won't end America's 70+ years of funding genocide in Israel.

If Biden hurts Gaza and Trump hurts Gaza and America, and you know no other candidate has a path to victory, how do you not simply pick the option that kills the least people? You're saying death is inevitable, so damage mitigation should be the name of the game If you vote, you're responsible for the consequences, but not the consequences of you not voting? How does that logic work?

Good people with good principles don't get tired and say "Fuck it. Let's all die" because some people are dying. Not voting isn't a valiant protest. It's quitting.

First they're not saying don't vote, they're gonna vote some non-genocidal candidate that would win if all the "we have to vote for biden..." people actually voted for, but that'll never happen so pointless to discuss.

But the rest of what you said, yeah no one actually believes that will happen though. Literally no one believes that if trump gains power, the US is going to switch to being in sepia tone, nazis with red arm bands will be marching up and down the streets, pogroms, and then they attack poland. No. Instead, they just believe they will get "slightly worse than biden" for president, and you gotta put up with him for 4 years till he buggers right back off because he's already had a first term.

Let's just face it, both options are so bad, they kind of melt into each other. The 2 party system is a complete sham, and the overall situation is not really going to be any different depending on who gets power. The corporations that decide what's good for domestic policy are still going to be bribing your elected politician, and AIPAC is still going to be dictating a lot of the foreign policy in the middle east where the US screws up a lot.

Otherwise, both trump and biden are the same where it really matters to the world at large, foreign policy. Both of them have the potential to steer us into a nuclear apocalypse, and that's really the only scenario that will bring about a reality similar to the exaggerated one you described.

Repeating the dumb thing doesnt un-dumb it.

pjnelson posted...

Let me preface this by saying I really, really badly don't want Trump to win. However, I have to be honest with myself. Biden is going to get decimated in November. There's no real costing him the election since he already stood no chance.

Sure, Jan.

ssjevot posted...

He would likely lose more votes by not supporting Israel. The US is overwhelmingly biased toward Israel.

Unfortunately this.

A_A_Battery posted...

First they're not saying don't vote, they're gonna vote some non-genocidal candidate that would win if all the "we have to vote for biden..." people actually voted for, but that'll never happen so pointless to discuss.

I mean, you ARE essentially telling people not to vote/vote for Donnie. Your only 2 options in the presidential election are Biden or Donnie. That's it. No amount of wishful thinking is changing that no matter how hard people want to burying their head in the sand and pretend our political system isn't that way.

A_A_Battery posted...
Let's just face it, both options are so bad, they kind of melt into each other.

Let's face it. People who say this shit are fucking clueless.

Heineken14 posted...

I mean, you ARE essentially telling people not to vote/vote for Donnie. Your only 2 options in the presidential election are Biden or Donnie. That's it. No amount of wishful thinking is changing that no matter how hard people want to burying their head in the sand and pretend our political system isn't that way.

Let's face it. People who say this shit are fucking clueless.

I really wish Bernie wouldve won.

LonelyStoner posted...

I really wish Bernie wouldve won.

And I wish I had a billion dollars and a hot Asian wife.

Dont get why people want the orange idiot to win. He literally said that he would help Israel finish the job.

Heineken14 posted...

And I wish I had a billion dollars and a hot Asian wife.

Having Bernie as president would feel similar to that.

LonelyStoner posted...

Having Bernie as president would feel similar to that.

Sure why not. I don't live my life under the circumstances that either is true.

LightHawKnight posted...

Dont get why people want the orange idiot to win. He literally said that he would help Israel finish the job.

Well, you see, it's because Biden bad!

cjsdowg posted...

It is on the people who don't want to fund a genocide, really ?

Partially, yes.

Elections have consequences, regardless if you aren't madly in love with every decision or policy the candidates do/have done.

The reality is we live in a 2 party system, and one of those 2 parties is going to win. Trump or Biden. Every non voter helps Trump. Every 3rd party voter helps Trump. Regardless if you are not madly in love with Bidens middle east policies, best believe Trump and Project 2025s plan for both the middle east, and those middle eastern people here in the states will be much worse.

LightHawKnight posted...

Dont get why people want the orange idiot to win. He literally said that he would help Israel finish the job.

Nobody wants him to win. They just believe that it's a consequence worth risking to not let supporting a genocide go unpunished, and that this is a move that considers the long term, not the immediate short term (these next 4 years).

They also do not really see how much worse trump can make Gaza, it's clear the israeli objective is to kill as many people there as humanly possible, and then displace the rest. If that fails, to install some occupation force over them that will be conducting the genocide more slowly. Biden is willing to sign off on all of that. He is not willing to lift even half a finger to put any limiation whatsoever on israel.

So you have on one hand, guaranteed shittiness on biden's part, and then on the other hand, you have punishing biden, and a 99.9999% chance trump will be just as bad as biden.

You gain: 0.0001 % chance of trump not being as bad as biden on Gaza (under the logic that anything in the universe is technically possible), and more importantly, you establish the idea: support genocide, and you lose for it. The end. It is a position that requires some degree self sacrifice.

A_A_Battery posted...

Nobody wants him to win. They just believe that it's a consequence worth risking to not let supporting a genocide go unpunished, and that this is a move that considers the long term, not the immediate short term (these next 4 years).

They also do not really see how much worse trump can make Gaza, it's clear the israeli objective is to kill as many people there as humanly possible, and then displace the rest. If that fails, to install some occupation force over them that will be conducting the genocide more slowly. Biden is willing to sign off on all of that. He is not willing to lift even half a finger to put any limiation whatsoever on israel.

So you have on one hand, guaranteed shittiness on biden's part, and then on the other hand, you have punishing biden, and a 99.9999% chance trump will be just as bad as biden.

You gain: 0.0001 % chance of trump not being as bad as biden on Gaza (under the logic that anything in the universe is technically possible), and more importantly, you establish the idea: support genocide, and you lose for it. The end.

So what kind of drugs are people smoking to think the orange idiot isnt going to be worse? He literally said he would help Israel finish the job. He is going to send US soldiers to assist. That is much much much worse.

LightHawKnight posted...

So what kind of drugs are people smoking to think the orange idiot isnt going to be worse? He literally said he would help Israel finish the job. He is going to send US soldiers to assist. That is much much much worse.

They don't think he's not going to be worse. They just don't see how he can be worse, it's already as bad as it gets and getting worse. Israel is planning a 6 month long Al Shifa like operation where they kill and rape people in Rafah for 6 whole months in a seige, trying to force them into egypt.

Biden is going to sign off on that.

Now. No one is saying trump won't do the same. But you still gain the main idea: Biden supported genocide, he lost. Thus, supporting genocide has consequences. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp.

The alternative is: Supporting genocide is perfectly fine. Have 4 more years of biden giving israel a blank check at the expense of the world, and literally not a single person did anything about it. At least just for optics, it looks better for him to lose anything for his actions. You don't let shit like this go unpunished, even if you burn for it. That's the logic.

A_A_Battery posted...

They don't think he's not going to be worse. They just don't see how he can be worse, it's already as bad as it gets and getting worse. Israel is planning a 6 month long Al Shifa like operation where they kill and rape people in Rafah for 6 whole months in a seige, trying to force them into egypt.

Biden is going to sign off on that.

Now. No one is saying trump won't do the same. But you still gain the main idea: Biden supported genocide, he lost. Thus, supporting genocide has consequences. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp.

The alternative is: Supporting genocide is perfectly fine. Have 4 more years of biden giving israel a blank check at the expense of the world, and literally not a single person did anything about it. At least just for optics, it looks better for him to lose anything for his actions.

And so people rather have US soldiers doing the kill eh.

A_A_Battery posted...

Nobody wants him to win.

https://imgur.com/t8JyOFc.png

A_A_Battery posted... a move that considers the long term

https://imgur.com/AfC79o9.png

LightHawKnight posted...

And so people rather have US soldiers doing the kill eh.

Uhh, they're already doing it. There have been reports of US special forces on the ground, and of course every other israeli has dual citizenship, so US citizens can go kill civilians in gaza and take pictures next to murdered women's underwear, and then go right back to being your neighbor in new york.

Biden surely isn't stopping that.

Also worth noting, not all of those who oppose biden politically are pro-israel, so there is that which contributes to the possibility that things will either not get worse, or even have a very small chance of being very slightly less worse. You already know what's gonna happen with biden, and it's awful. A technically unknown might still be a better gamble when you couple it with the fact that you showed the world that a genocide did not go unpunished.

Arent you the guy that celebrated the US withdrawal from Afghanistan, and was all excited that the western culture lost regardless of the more than obvious return of the atrocities of the Taliban against women?

Yeah, Im not surprised that youre campaigning for Trump.

Tanthalas posted...

Arent you the guy that celebrated the US withdrawal from Afghanistan, and was all excited that the western culture lost regardless of the more than obvious return of the atrocities of the Taliban against women?

Yeah, Im not surprised that youre campaigning for Trump.

Aren't you the guy who just makes up positions for people he doesn't like then lies about it? Glad to see you haven't changed.

Also you're right, the US should have stayed in Afghanistan bombing weddings. Was really serving US interests, that. Went towards student loan forgiveness, free healthcare, actual updates to infrastructure, the works. You know, just like the billions in aid to israel do, which no doubt you are in full support of.

LonelyStoner posted...

I really wish Bernie wouldve won.

Something tells me Bernie would be a big Israel supporter too.

ironman2009 posted...

Something tells me Bernie would be a big Israel supporter too.

He is. He openly and clearly stated that Palestinians should not be allowed to vote in israel and be granted citizenship because then it would "cease to be a jewish state". Meaning, purely based on race, israel should be an apartheid.

A_A_Battery posted...

Aren't you the guy who just makes up positions for people he doesn't like then lies about it? Glad to see you haven't changed.

Also you're right, the US should have stayed in Afghanistan bombing weddings. Was really serving US interests, that. Went towards student loan forgiveness, free healthcare, actual updates to infrastructure, the works. You know, just like the billions in aid to israel do, which no doubt you are in full support of.

Lol, so you deny it then?

Maybe theres some other guy with battery in his name

Boy this topic. Some of you are truly lost.

Zwijn posted...

Is there a substantial group in the states that cares enough about this conflict to let it influence elections? That seems pretty strange to me.

Michigan Muslims/Arabs

A_A_Battery posted...

He is. He openly and clearly stated that Palestinians should not be allowed to vote in israel and be granted citizenship because then it would "cease to be a jewish state". Meaning, purely based on race, israel should be an apartheid ethnostate. He fully supports that and there is video of him stating it.

Edit: Found it, starts at 7:50:

https://youtu.be/piWbS2bAvTY?feature=shared&t=470

His policies are at least far more progressive than Bidens.

No.
It's worth noting that Trump stated he'd finish the job (against Gaza), but that hasn't generated nearly as many headlines

LonelyStoner posted...

His policies are at least far more progressive than Bidens.

If he can make it on the ballot, those who refuse to vote for biden can vote for him instead. He is a pro-israel zionist to be sure, but I doubt he'd give israel a check as blank as the one biden is giving them. Then again, who knows, in the US I'm not really used to presidents not disappointing.

If it does, I'll never forgive Israel.

Imagine us losing our democracy because some shitheads across the planet kept electing far right assholes.

It doesn't matter that Trump will be worse. In fact, it wouldn't even matter if Trump would be better for Gaza! All that matters is that Trump will be worse for every other aspect of our lives. The fact that he will also be worse for Gaza is yet another reason to vote for Biden.

Alas, Biden's not hard enough on Israel, and he's also not hard enough on Russia.
But he's still better than Trump.

Trump would encourage Israel to ramp up their genociding, throw Ukraine under the bus, and Mike Johnson NATO if or when Russia decides it's time to gobble up the Baltic states.
And then there's all that Project 2025 shit...

ClayGuida posted...

If it does, I'll never forgive Israel.

Imagine us losing our democracy because some shitheads across the planet kept electing far right assholes.

More like:

Imagine us losing our democracy because democrats have refused to listen to their voter base for years while simultaneously being bought and paid forn by a foreign power that they seemingly have unwavering loyalty to.

I think it will make it closer than it has any right to be, but I ultimately think Biden still pulls out ahead

A_A_Battery posted...

If he can make it on the ballot, those who refuse to vote for biden can vote for him instead.

Remember when I said "no matter how hard people want to burying their head in the sand and pretend our political system isn't that way." This is what I was talking about.

I don't think so no. It'll have been 13 months nearly to the day upon Election Day.

Biden has made clear he supports Israel's right to defend, & publicly throwing Bibi under the bus for over-reach.
Arming Israel doesn't = target more hospitals... it also tells Iran & co. to not even think about it.

Trump is uber Israel, but probably for Christian voter fantasies.