Lurker > foolm0r0n

Jakyl25 posted...

Andrew Yang is moving to Georgia so he can vote in the runoffs

I appreciate it but I have to admit I would be incensed by Republicans doing this

That's awesome. Liberals who moved to red states 100% won Biden the election, while CA/NY libs didn't do shit. It's such an obvious and effective way to play the electoral college game.

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_foolmo_
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

either not federally challenging state election procedures or at least doing so beforehand to speed up the process instead of slowing it down

No, the feds should be able to challenge states, that part makes sense. But the states should have processes that make it exceedingly rare for the feds to be able to challenge them. Like you said, the vast majority of Trump's lawsuits got thrown out instantly. That's good and how the system should work. But there are still a few holes that need to be plugged.

If there really are 1000 votes that need to be invalidated, you can't blame the feds for slowing things down when the alternative is to just let those 1000 votes slide. You have to blame the ones who counted the vote incorrectly for slowing it down.

Also I'm the one advocating for government to do more in this case, so it's not anti-statist at all. I should really be preaching that private enterprise like Google should come and take over the voting process, using Ethereum blockchains and such.

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_foolmo_
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That is a broken man, who is now laughing in joy and relief that he doesn't need to follow Trump anymore

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_foolmo_
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Leafeon13N posted...

Ehh the narrative change is working. Trump protests across the country have been consistently getting smaller. The risk of civil unrest has shrunk dramatically. It has begun to sink in to a lot of these people that at the very least they don't have a leg to stand on in the court of public opinion.

That's the thing about a superficial movement like Trumpism, unlike BLM, you can't go out on the streets day after day in support of it. You get bored of it way too easily. And if you add undeniable evidence on top of that, it becomes really socially uncomfortable to continue.

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_foolmo_
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StartTheMachine posted...

No way in hell is it less than 50% of Republican voters.

It's way less than 35 mil

StartTheMachine posted...

You're no less naive than any neolib when you say stuff like this. These people will never, ever, ever agree that the election was fair no matter how much evidence is presented. Evidence is completely irrelevant.

Evidence cuts away the space that conspiracies can thrive in. Everyone has their line, and at some point they are convinced. There will always be extremists, but evidence moves the line.

But you're right that no one will be convinced of THIS election. That's what I mean when I say the narrative has already been written. No one changes their mind during an argument, only after. The result of the current lawsuits won't matter now, but in the future they will probably be a net good.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

This isn't a "narrative," this is the objective fact of the lawsuits.

Tell it to those following the narrative. They don't care about the lawsuits, just that there were lawsuits. That falls in line with their worldview and that's it. So you're agreeing with me here.

But to your general point about the lawsuits not actually improving the process - waiting multiple days to get results counted DOES reduce confidence in the election. Having to disqualify even 1000 votes DOES reduce confidence in the count. This is clearly one thing that the feds and the states have the responsibility to improve. I don't get why statists want government to do every job except the ones their are explicitly assigned.

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_foolmo_
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Hes legally allowed to challenge whatever, but his completely baseless accusations of rigging are going to sow mistrust thats going to be very hard to fix. Creating millions of new conspiracy theorists is a big deal.

The narratives were written and consumed long before the election. What happens between now and January won't change anyone's mind. After January though, people will fall into a comfortable position. Many people find comfort in the conspiracies, but it's a small portion.

Jakyl25 posted...

Thats a good strategy. Tell them to not bother anymore if you think its rigged. And then continue to run legit elections.

That's basically what I've been telling them. Like if you're accusing the Democrats of being able to manufacture racism, global warming, and a global pandemic, then of course they will be able to rig a few thousand votes in a couple states. How the hell are you gonna fight that kind of force with a facebook post?

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_foolmo_
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When you put anyone slightly conservative in the same bucket, then yeah sentences like that are gonna freak you out. I would think after 4 years of Trump, liberals would realize how crucially different literal Nazis are from milquetoast Republicans, but maybe not.

And that lack of discernment is why the left will completely fall in line under Biden and be loyal pawns in his centrist authoritarianism. Anything to the right of what he proposes will be seen as Nazism and completely dismissed as an option. Thus he will have free reign of all of US politics left of and including the center.

"We're not pro-Biden, the fight is not over, the real work starts now" sounds great until you have to work with Republicans to resist Biden.

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_foolmo_
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I mean, Trump's lawsuits would improve the process, if the judges weren't deciding most of them would not and have no basis, and consequently throwing them out. So it's not really equivalent? No one is saying we shouldn't verify the election by legitimate means.

First of all, the dumbest duopolist idea ever is that conservative judges always fall in line for Republicans and vice versa for liberal judges. It has absolutely no basis in our country's history and it is incredibly insulting to one of the biggest strengths of our government, which is the relative independence of the judicial branch. It's straight up doom porn.

Next, even if the judges were conspiring against a correct vote, states would still be highly incentivized to improve their process, so that the courts couldn't invalidate their count in the future.

The fact is, we need overwhelming evidence that the count is right, and we don't have it. If we did have it, the courts would have to agree, but more importantly the people would have to agree. Yes Trumpers would still cry but they would get over quicker, instead of spending 4 years getting groomed by the conspiracy media to vote Republican again in 2024.

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_foolmo_
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MalcolmMasher posted...

Third: as LotM has pointed out in post #459, the 2016 anti-Trump allegation is that American voters wouldn't have elected Trump if it weren't for illicit Russian interference, while the 2020 anti-Biden allegation is that American voters didn't elect Biden.

The corollaries to both of these allegations is the investigation will lead to a better process for our country. The Russian investigation improved our national security, and Trump's vote count lawsuits will improve our voting processes. People cry about how these things cost a whopping 0.01% of the national budget, but these things are unambiguously the job of the federal government.

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_foolmo_
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fuming posted...

is there any country on earth where there aren't factions of the country that view other factions within the country as their political/cultural enemy? again - the only way you ever see countries 'unite' is against an external enemy, it is the Ozymandias strategy. If only we had a giant squid to fight, we could stop hating our neighbors.

Different factions united via intersectional coalitions. That's how all successful politics is done, and the US has a ton of great examples of it. It's been very rare recently though. That's what the message of unity is supposed to signal.

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_foolmo_
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Corrik7 posted...

She is one of the he was the candidate that doesn't want to kill babies and the rest are baby killers. Don't think it's going away.

Ok but he is easily the president who has had the most abortions, and that's including Jefferson and such

She'll figure out some way to cope

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_foolmo_
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Corrik7 posted...

This election may be the end of my relationship.

Not because I voted for Biden. That was accepted.

But because every last day since my fiancee says a new conspiracy theory of how Biden has cheated and Trump will win in court. Then I say you know that has been debunked already right? And she freaks the fuck out. Lol. Every single last day. Jesus.

The thing with Trumpers is they convinced themselves Trump is their savior from nothing, in a matter of months.

So in a matter of months, they will be completely over this. Before inauguration most likely. They're just in a sensitive spot right now.

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_foolmo_
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

what if the government could do things BESIDES the military and prison industrial complexes

They can. All they need is about 5% spending in actually beneficial programs to get undying popular support, then they can run their wars and prisons with impunity.

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_foolmo_
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Dancedreamer posted...

Ahh yes, the Libertarian position: No government involvement in anything ever.

Ah yes the neolib position. Government needs to tie up trillions of taxpayer dollars in the military industrial complex in order to temporarily make it through a recession, or else it's doing "nothing".

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_foolmo_
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I was at the DC plaza earlier, it is fairly distanced, just not 6 feet. At the front there it was pretty dense though. But not shoulder to shoulder. And yeah 100% of people are wearing masks.

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_foolmo_
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Dancedreamer posted...

Never forget that FDR was able to win 4 elections in a row thanks to popular New Deal programs.

We can't forget, it was an absolute disaster scenario that directly caused many of the issues we have today

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_foolmo_
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Hillary could've reran this year too if she wanted. That's just not how elites do things. When they lose, they're out. Lay low and move onto the next thing.

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_foolmo_
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What anti-3rd party people will never admit is that non-battleground votes (like D votes in CA) are LITERALLY 100% worthless. You can't genuinely suggest that kind of vote over a 3rd party.

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_foolmo_
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tage

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_foolmo_
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3rd party voting and even non-voting are the only things defending the power of your vote in a 2-party system. If we were forced to vote for the 2-parties then there would be absolutely 0 reason for them to campaign or advertise for edge case policies, like Biden's woke and leftist rhetoric, or Trump's anti-war anti-establishment rhetoric. All progressive ideas in either party are implicitly driven by the non-2-party voters. So it's a fine vote if you just care about protecting what little power our votes have.

But in a practical sense, yeah if a 3rd party gets 5% of the vote they also get a huge boost in platform. Ls get pretty close to that sometimes, and it's happened in the past, so it's a realistic goal.

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_foolmo_
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

who do you think voted for hawkins?

Hippies maybe? I don't think the Gs are a socialist party

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_foolmo_
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

because all leftists voted for biden? you don't think there are any leftists who voted for a different candidate?

Nope, unless you count the maoists I was talking about earlier

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_foolmo_
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

plenty of libertarians voted for trump (muffin on this board, well known libertarians like tom woods, lew rockwell, lauren southern, etc. etc.).

you can (justly) argue they're not "real" libertarians, but you're not making this distinction with leftists either, so...

Right, that's what I'm saying. Some Ls voted Trump, some Biden, some Jo. They are clearly a different category of voter. Leftists are not.

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_foolmo_
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Aecioo posted...

it was over a day and a half ago but come on, a vast majority of americans only follow one of the major news networks, and now they've all called it so it makes sense that this is 'the moment'

I get it, I'm just surprised it all crystallized right now. All my different circles were satisfied with calling it at the same time.

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_foolmo_
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DeepsPraw posted...

yeah because they have 2 right wing parties to choose from, the center-right dems and far-right GOP

leftists rarely have any candidates they can believe in, because leftism is extremely unpopular in the states

Libertarians have 0 choices, and they don't vote 2-party, at least not in a consistent manner. But they are still "right".

Leftists might also have 0 choices, but they vote exactly the same as centrist Ds. So there's no reason to treat them differently.

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_foolmo_
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Why is it over now just because CNN called it? Haven't other places called it before and it wasn't enough?

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_foolmo_
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Reg posted...

lmao

I know that leftists really wish they were counter culture, but you're not. You'll vote for Bidens your entire life. You'll vote D down ticket your entire life. Leftists are Democrats along with the centrists.

Libertarians definitely do not vote straight R down ticket, but they are still on the "right" along with the Rs.

I do know some genuine communists who are straight up Maoist, but that's not common or even a serious philosophy. It's like ancaps on the right.

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_foolmo_
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Yeah people really are gonna revolt if Trump isn't re-elected

They really love and respect him so much

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_foolmo_
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

meanwhile, on the left, 99% of people despise biden.

Completely false. Biden is the quintessential Democrat. The majority of the Democrat party wants to vote for people like him the rest of their lives, even people in our generation.

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_foolmo_
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I'm assuming the random convo in here means Biden has decisively won?

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_foolmo_
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I don't get why she should be the executive leader. Speaker of the house seems good.

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_foolmo_
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Wanglicious posted...

the 3 main ones all have subsections that try to argue it.

Those same subsections believe italians shouldn't marry greeks because it's interracial

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_foolmo_
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I had a dream last night that I was at the Libertarian party convention and Pelosi was the headliner

Anyone know a good hypnotherapist?

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_foolmo_
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Regarding the popularity of M4A, it's funny that if either candidate promised it, they would've dominated the vote. But they didn't. Because they know McConnell would never let it happen. Presidents are nothing compared to him.

Pay attention to Amash's alarms about the dysfunction of modern Congress. 1 person with maybe 2 other consultants rule the entire federal legislative process right now. You can talk about your dreams of Bernie and AOC as president all you want, but nothing happens until Congress is fixed. It doesn't end when McConnell does either.

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_foolmo_
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Social democracy or Democratic socialist also don't make sense as terms. They just threw a bunch of stuff out and saw what stuck. I think they regret Democratic socialism as the main term but that's what they have. Libertarians have a similar struggle. Democrat and Republican are just really good names, so we can blame the duopoly for this too.

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_foolmo_
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Progressives just need to wait for new voters to replace old voters.

This is false btw. We're like 30 now. Tons of our generation is distinctly anti-progressive and loves Biden's status quo. We voted for Biden over Bernie and you can't blame DNC shenanigans for that one.

New voters replace the old voters, yes, but with the same old philosophy. That's the reality. Cultural change takes a lot longer than 1 generation.

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_foolmo_
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Obama was a socialist too btw.

That's sad af for socialists

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_foolmo_
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What # of black people will be in Bidens cabinet

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_foolmo_
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Jo as secretary of homeland security

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_foolmo_
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Obama as secretary of the interior

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_foolmo_
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Also the tldr for 48 hours: Still nothing has changed. Check back tomorrow.

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_foolmo_
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Inviso posted...

Why do we even elect a president if the things they say and do, according to you, have no impact on anything?

The president is not supposed to be a sexy or powerful job. It's largely supposed to be a check on the legislative which is full of psycho assholes.

Unfortunately now the president has a huge amount of power, so while Corrik wishes Trump isn't responsible for the covid deaths, he really is.

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_foolmo_
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Corrik7 posted...

What would happen if a President literally just pardoned everyone?

Then we would all see how the police abuse and overjailing problems is really a bottoms-up issue. The cops will not let people go that easily.

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_foolmo_
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Now see, this all seems a lot more reasonable to me. But I don't think this sort of system should be considered at all on a federal level until we havea more stable economy.

It should never be considered on a federal level.

There's a reason that highly specific NYC scheme sounded good to you. It's perfectly optimized for their local economy. There is no way to do it effectively at a federal or even a state level in many cases. That's what's statists can never get into their heads. If it works in their backyard then there's no chance it won't work on every square inch of the globe.

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_foolmo_
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KamikazePotato posted...

Also this is a very useful site:

https://alex.github.io/nyt-2020-election-scraper/battleground-state-changes.html

Who is this person and what is their gamefaqs username

This is exactly what I wanted and it's straight up a gfaqs contest stats app

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_foolmo_
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Even if the 93% stat is true, that's still a huge bite out of the base. It's like a 3rd party getting %7 of the vote.

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_foolmo_
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Lightning Strikes posted...

Biden can do some really important things though, like rejoin the Paris accord and cancel the withdrawal from the WHO.

That will be the core of his presidency - non-binding superficial measures that don't actually change anything

But at least we're back to "normal"

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_foolmo_
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Y'all should be blocked by ulti, it's pretty great because he goes through all his alts to block you too

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_foolmo_
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Like in 2016, Im guessing she didnt actually act as a spoiler (its not at all safe to assume that those votes all go to Trump; many would have stayed home, and some would go to Biden).

There was about 5% total L/G vote in 2016 and it was very consistent nationally, so you could pretty reasonably assume Ls came from R and Gs came from D. There were a couple states in 2016 like Michigan where the L vote was enough to spoil a Trump win.

But yeah this year the L votes are more mixed and not a spoiler anywhere.

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_foolmo_
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Tag

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_foolmo_
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