Lurker > Lopen

Shang Tsung
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Morrigan
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T-1000 uppercase
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Listen I kinda wanted to save Golbez but I wasn't going to let my two favorite FFVI characters go out back to back (as someone who usually revels in FFVI related seething)
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Sabin
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X-Death
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So what can I vote characters multiple times or what
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Shang Tsung
Dracula
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Dante lasted about 50 spots longer than I expected at least

T-1000
Morrigan
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If Leblanc had stats she would have improved at like day 5
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MZero11 posted...

MoogleKupo141 posted...

Lopen posted...

Yeah Berenstain is the only one I'm with.

Something went down, there. I was very good at phonics as a youth-- I wouldn't pronounce it the way I did if it was spelt that way.

I think its just like that thing in your brain that lets you read words even when the letters are out of order or something. Nowhere else do you see a name that ends in stain, but you constantly see ones ending in stein, so unless you really stare at Berenstain your mind just glosses over it and you assume you saw Berenstein.

Because seriously nothing went down. Theres no alternate universe where everything is the same except for small differences that are easily made spelling mistakes.

You must be a hoot at parties

Only in the Berenstein dimension I bet
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Yeah

Setzer is always that guy I want to save but can't reliably spare saves for

I feel like a lot of people are like that with him. He'd probably naturally accumulate a lot of followers as the field dwindles.
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red13n posted...

You gain the benefit of more numbers. That strong voice day 1 becomes an even stronger voice day 2.

Not necessarily unless you bus a scum. In the case of a mislynch arguments are now under heavy scrutiny and if anyone in your roving band of marauders didn't do it quite right they could be picked apart by town. Heck even if you got the right lynch, it's going to be picked apart

I still think passive play is the best way to play scum, more often than not, because the less useful information that's out there the better and even if you're witchhunting town you're going to create useful information.
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Corrik7 posted...

If I had built a case using day 1 stuff on red, I woulda got manhandled and picked apart with a weak case.

Build it off day 2 and day 3 then. There was stuff there. I was extremely disappointed when no one doubled back to Red's defense on why he voted Blade-- it was not remotely consistent with how he acted in day 1. I'm the only person who ever mentioned it and I was practically yelling "dammit I was not just posturing there and surprised when that wild card Corrik hammered-- I thought he was scum!"
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Thing about scumteams digging in though is they have to fake it. It becomes more risky. Like yes you can create an argument on anyone to some extent, but even if it's good say they claim then what. Can you reliably flow from town member to town member to pressure without the arguments you're making seem a bit contrived? Can you avoid your scumbuddies that probably have as good or better cases on them?

Like honestly I think if scumteams did that games would be easier to win. Not just because the scum lynch party would slip in fabricating a suspicion, but also because just generating pressure on people who are suspicious and seeing how they react (and how the people pressuring them react) is how the game is played well. You might get some power claims out there but you're also going to confirm a lot of town to people.
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Tree's stats are actually really good for how many boots he's had. Like he basically does well if I can be bothered to reliably save him (his other supporters are not as consistent) and otherwise dies way too quick.
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Like basically the thing to realize is that no matter how much "evidence" you find, no matter how much gut your read has, if you've got like 5 or 6 players thinking one guy is scum, with some of them making decently reasonable arguments, they're probably more likely to be scum than the dude you had a scum lean on that you just came across in a reread.

Especially if you were reading that one as possible scum too. Especially if someone previously thought to be town would likely be doubting you inherently because you're claiming their role.

Like you did it in day 1 too. Lots of arguments for hb, but you're like "nah, Blade, let's start a different train cause all these arguments can't possibly be as good as my rng town read on hb and Blade meowing and not caring"

It's less embarrassing with Blade cause you were (half-- hb was scum) right but like, yeah. That's where the team game comes in, willingness to humor arguments not put forth by yourself-- stupid ass fakeclaims to draw shots not as much.

Like you'll note I actually admitted I didn't even really buy the lynch on red at first in day 2-- this is 100% true by the way and I was just pushing for the lynch pressure because other people, a few of which I were confident were town, were suspicious of him. It was only after his reaction to pressure that I became convinced he was scum-- but yeah like, if I'm playing like you we probably don't even catch Red. I'm just bashing popcorn fairy into the wall all day and accomplishing nothing.
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I mean I almost wasn't here and my priorities are mysterious so that is fair.

I was just pointing out it was kinda funny. I almost just voted Dr Cid too but Tifa was one of the better elims left so I didn't really want to do that. Should have just went with Setzer but I didn't actually absorb you were lurking, just Martin
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It's not just about what you see

It's about what the players at large see. You go with red because others were seeing the case on red because you're in a bad spot and if your lynch is wrong you're causing a ton of damage with a fake doctor claim-- basically adding one more wrong lynch to the pile.

That's why you're not a team player. Not stupid ass claims. That. Gotta have the glory of the lynching the scum you catch rather than reading the arguments of others and going with them in the name of advancing the day.
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Funny thing is if any of me, Xuxon, or Martin had broke the stalemate I think we would all have been happier

I was waiting for Dr Cid + Setzer
Martin was waiting for Tifa + Dr Cid
Xuxon was waiting for Tifa + Setzer

ALAS
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setzer
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I thought your case on fire_bolt was good but you need to realize you're arguing from a point of negative credibility at that point, so you need to have some humility and realize you can't sell the town on anything that they're not already believing. Starting on firebolt fresh was just never going to work.

Red was an attainable lynch because he had majority lynch yesterday and had done nothing to make himself look better.

Also it was just your opinion rather than the opinions of the many which red had-- which, again, speaks to the inherent selfishness which is bad play. Like you're basically saying "well I had this read when I reread the game and it has to be right" when no one else in the game was really having that read. You need to accept maybe you're wrong there and even if bolt is just vanilla town you're doing more damage by not just falling on the sword if you lynch him.
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I get it

I think you should have just like, tried harder to sell town on red and maybe your play would have been a good one. Like it only ever makes any sense if you're sure the guy you're trying to lynch is scum-- and red was the guy you thought was scum coming into the day and could have feasibly bought you a day if you built the case well, which is all you needed. The point should never have been to claim doctor and use that as the only way to buy yourself a day-- the point should have been to claim doctor, get a guy you thought was scum lynched mostly on the strength of the argument, not "don't lynch me I'm doctor," and then draw a shot.

Like trying to say fire bolt is scum, when you know you're not the real doctor and half of your case was him turning on you in an opportunistic way (which would make perfect sense for the real doctor to do, go figure!), shows you lost sight of what your purpose was and were just scrambling to not die by the time you went too deep into your gambit.

But I do think the play had some potential at least.
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masterplum posted...

Theres no universe where I ever fake claim doc as vanilla. Ever. Zero. I am not some mafia god.

Chris is the only one who maybe I wouldnt be adamantly against doing that, and even then I would be annoyed

Claiming doctor as vanilla is not about saving your hide because you're just that valuable. That's not what Corrik was doing.

It's about buying yourself one day and hoping scum wastes their shot on you so you don't waste a lynch day. It requires a small amount of faith in your real doctor to not counterclaim but there are situations where you'd want to do it. You also want to be damn sure the lynch that is in your place is scum otherwise you're not helping anything because a mislynch is a mislynch-- which, we had a really good lynch lined up that day in red.

The problem is Corrik was a bit too buried and had already burnt up his credibility with a different fakeclaim, so it didn't have any chance of serving the intended purpose and was mostly just risky over everything else. I think in a different situation, with different timing, and with a different approach, it could have been a strong move though. I think he really needed to aim for a lower hanging fruit in red instead of trying to build a case from scratch. Play the "listen, we all thought Red was scum yesterday, let's just give Lea one more day" approach rather than FIREBOLT IS SCUM LOOK AT THESE 9000 POSTS I'M GOING TO QUOTE approach. Firebolt being the real doctor really drives home the "only do it if you're damn sure the lynch is in your place is scum" point.
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I think the idea was good it's just... poor timing. You need some credibility when you're doing that otherwise you're not looking like you're trying to draw a shot you look like desperate scum trying to draw counterclaims.

Also the hider claim was completely pointless and only served to undermine you later.
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I mean I was like 6 I don't think I had seen names that ended in "stein" either at that point.

Frankenstein, I guess?

Certainly not enough to make some sort of pattern-- I mean as far as "stein" endings being super common to children that would remember it this other way I don't think they are.
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X-Death
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Yeah Berenstain is the only one I'm with.

Something went down, there. I was very good at phonics as a youth-- I wouldn't pronounce it the way I did if it was spelt that way.
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Like any time you're fighting a lynch train that has a case on it, or trying to push another lynch train that isn't one that has an existing case on it, and the best thing you have to support it is "gut" or something similarly weak you're playing self centered. It's basically just you wanting to be right with the read you found more than trying to figure the game out.

And that happens all the time.
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Probably like 75% of b8 plays self-centered which is why the towns always lose Corrik is just more blatant about it.
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I don't disagree with that and I could poke a lot of holes in Corrik's play. I said day 3 while I was dead that I thought he was trying to parody me since he was basically everything I did wrong in the last game x6 but I'm just saying the amount of certainty Plum had in Corrik being scum based on not all that much that was actually scummy seemed like exactly what Plum was condemning Corrik for to me.
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I honestly don't really think Hb is safe with a miller claim. I think that was the wrong town to do that against and we'd have pressured him anyway assuming all other things about his play were similar.

I mean we literally butted heads with a mayor who said that the lynch wasn't happening to power the lynch through.
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masterplum posted...

Also, Im serious about ignoring Corrik. I just cant play with people who refuse to ever think they are wrong. It tilts me too hard

You both could learn some humility tbh. Corrik's claims were bad but honestly nothing else about his play really seemed very scummy to me. People need to get over the stigma on early hammers.
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I'm not intimately familiar with the flavor (with my tinfoil flavor hat maybe that's a good thing) but I still need a stress outlet/mind occupier so I'll play.
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Won't say Lea played a perfect game but I think she used the role really well, pretty close to perfectly.

Perfect cop use but not perfect play overall. It's hard to have perfect play when you have to be there the whole game though-- that's what people who were ragging on me for Literature don't understand. If I got killed night 2 there and lasted till endgame this time I would've looked great!
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Playing the cop perfect is scanning suspicious people who aren't so suspicious that scanning them is a formality, which is why Red was a bad scan despite what you're saying. I think scanning you would have been a good scan instead if she was really going to push the Corrik lynch the next day but alas.

I would say the only potentially lucky scan Lea had was doing IGCD last. Ironically if MZero really is mod confirmed she actually does scan IGCD before MZero, which makes ya wonder how much weight that really had in the end but you know.
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Jiffy Pop maybe?
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I mean if it's a modkill or not I still think scum loses and scum is ultimately to blame for their loss much moreso than a lack of modkill.

Also keep in mind Corrik thinks you should have been modkilled too Blade so I don't think you agree with Corrik.
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I thought Death saying he was force replaced for breaking the rule could potentially have given it a scum look. Like if he was being honest town you don't need to force replace, you just normal replace. That sorta implies it may be a scum gambit.

Overall I thought MZero just looked more town than most of the lurky vanillas through in game thoughts anyway though.
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Yeah I would say scum shots threw the game almost as much as scum play

Why priority was placed on doctor hunting when there were so many confirmed town on the board and the only scum who weren't imminently going to die couldn't be directly caught by cop anyway (untargetable and godfather)

Like I'm taking Ulti or Panthera (who was basically confirmed due to town scanning + irrational target for scum poisoner shot) out that night, not trying to hit a doc. Also I think red should've counterclaimed doc cause I think he could've outargued fire_bolt and doctor is one of the only claims you could've maybe sold that day 2 reaction as town for.
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I think if you, personally, Blade, try harder, that scumteam can win.

I also think if town had any common sense that the game ends at 5 left in which case confirmed MZero is rather irrelevant to the ending game state either way. There's also the fact that if MZero was modkilled and it was final 4 with IGCD being the last scanned town and Lea being left alive, that I'm less convinced Scare is lynched because I think town probably takes the more obvious safe play rather than overthinking it.

But yeah it's basically a cop out to try and blame scum loss on that. The first 3 major lynches that got any traction were all scum. At some point you take the L and say scumteam had some issues rather than trying to blame the host.
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Sultan getting himself mod confirmed was a myth. I mean some people will meta but it's not a given.

The only thing that really did to sabotage scum is made Blade ragequit. The fact that MZero got scanned before IGCD should have been a hint that it didn't town confirm him.
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Also I disliked how everyone was saying I was "joking" or that I didn't expect Corrik to hammer Red

I totally did expect him to and would have hammered Red myself if Corrik had taken me up on the unvote offer. Dude deserved it. You don't need to go 48 hours on literally every day you got a lot of solving material off that day with an early hammer especially with so many of the votes on Red not being purely pressure votes.

Already saw Red squirm out of a lynch with a fakeclaim last time so I figured just killing him then was best. All in all no harm done but it was probably the major hiccup the town had and I think the 48 hours all the time mentality is part of the reason b8 towns lose so much cause fatigue adds up.
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I think the game went well aside from the second to last day, and Ulti policy mayoring scum he started a lynch on. I'd call Corrik a bad lynch but I can't deny he earned it to a degree with those wacky claims even though I think people started on him as "punishment" for hammering which I can't approve of

No idea how IGCD isn't just lynched as a safety lynch because there's no other reason whatsoever to leave him alive unless you're trying to frame Lea as possible scum and the last scum is MZero or Scare, but that setup requires IGCD to flip town first
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If Godzilla Could Die

Shame this didn't end last topic I suspect the results topic would have been called that
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Creeper
Ryu Hayabusa
Sol Badguy
Tharja
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Jade Curtiss
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Alucard
Wakka
Demi-Fiend
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Vergil (Devil May Cry)
Matthew (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Blade)
Serra (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Blade)
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I like all of them

Except Corvo but it was funnier to leave him
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