Lurker > NBIceman

I don't mean like I had an interaction with him. More like a face in the crowd sort of thing.

Although that would require him to leave the basement where he presumably keeps people chained up so I suppose probably not.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

I see from Preston's Twitter that he apparently lives in San Antonio and now I'm wondering if I've ever actually crossed paths with him at some point.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Repede
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Yes

More so because of the movies than the comics.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Repede

text
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Repede
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Scarlet
There's really nothing here that I don't like, but at the other end of the spectrum, the only thing I'd be super excited for is DDP/Rock. Elimination Chamber looks like it'd be a little messy and the Tag Title match is between two teams that I've always liked a little less than the average person. Maybe I just don't have the nostalgic feelings for some of these guys needed to fully appreciate the card.
Rating: 6/10
Favorite Match: Rock vs DDP

Ed
I said this in the Discord but this legitimately sent me into a laughing fit for about a half hour. Those first four matches all have something hilarious about them. Problem is, the only one I'd watch absent someone holding a gun to my head is the IC Title match. The last three are all pretty fun, though. Starts really rough but ends pretty strong.
Rating: 6/10
Favorite Match: Cena vs Taker, as much as I'm obviously tempted to vote for the America's Finest match

Steiner
Steiner managed to accidentally draft five guys that would make at least my top 25 all-time favorites in HBK, London, Awesome, RVD, and Raven. And they're all in really fun spots! There's some rough-looking things on this card (one of them is named JBL, who probably dropped this card 1 rating point out of 10 by himself), and I probably care less about that semi-main than anyone else here, but a workrate-heavy card with such an awesome main event is obviously going to rate highly for me.
Rating: 8.5/10
Favorite Match: I mean, take a guess.

Icon
The most consistent card in this draft. Nothing pops out to me as being especially exciting but it seems like it'd be a really easy watch. I don't really have a whole lot to say about it other than that, it's just a well-constructed card.
Rating: 7.5/10
Favorite Match: Punk vs Lawler

Good work by all involved, I think.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Unsanctioned: ???
Never seen Awesome but isn't he supposed to be kinda crummy?

I will fight whoever said this irl
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

I asked here a month ago if TP was a good Zelda game and the overwhelming response I got was "Eh."

B8, you are a mystery.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Repede
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

ffmasterjose posted...

Man Buddy Murphy really got drafted to Smackdown just to disappear from TV completely

Well, sure. He's a good wrestler. What is WWE supposed to do with someone like that?
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Who was it here that said they'd rather Fire Emblem had died rather than Awakening had come out?

You may be talking about me and if you were that's not exactly what I said or meant.

I greatly dislike the last few FE games, starting with Awakening, and an argument I always hear when I bring that up is that it "saved the franchise from death." To which my rebuttal is always "why should I care if the franchise is alive if I no longer enjoy its entries?"

Now that being said, 3H, as I mentioned, looks really good to me. I've just got a bad taste in my mouth for the series right now so it's hard to fully commit to optimism.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

I mean, you're seeing it already. Look at Cody vs Dustin.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

I hate that I'm as optimistic about this game as I am. I just know I'm gonna get burned.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Repede
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

I'm sure in his mind he doesn't have to know anything about anything else to know his stuff is the best.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Jakyl25 posted...

I just didnt see Vince as the kind of person that makes value judgments about his writing. It just exists and its what you have to read.

Huh. I've always thought that he believed what he wrote to be the highest form of art.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Jakyl25 posted...

I honestly couldnt have imagined that Vince walks around telling people that complain about their scripted promos that they shouldnt complain because theyre so well-written.

Really? That didn't shock me in the least.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Also, the Punk podcast, IIRC, really brought to light a lot of things we didn't know or couldn't have expected.

Mox's podcast just confirmed a lot of things that a good number of us already believed.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Iconoclasts
Bastion
Celeste
Furi
Hyper Light Drifter
La-Mulana
La-Mulana 2
Pyre
To the Moon
Transistor
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Repede
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Well... I guess that's logical in its own baffling way.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

please no
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

I think you're underestimating what TNA at its best was.

We're really, really not.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Tom Bombadil posted...

so if AEW as a brand can't explain AEW's drawing power

and AEW's roster can't explain AEW's drawing power

and RoH and TNA have made no headway in capitalizing on anti-WWE sentiment

how did they do a number

He can correct me if I'm wrong but I think his point was always just that AEW as of now is no different than TNA ever was.

To me it's not even so much that he's underselling AEW as way overselling TNA.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Lopen posted...

I didn't say they don't draw I said they don't draw 12000 sellouts, as ~4000 is a far cry from that.

You said they couldn't reliably draw at that level on the indie scene, and we're not talking about the indie scene here.

You have to look at drawing in relative terms. When ROH's average attendance falls by (generously) 50% or 60% when Cody and the Bucks leave I feel like it's hard not to call them reliable draws.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Yeah ROH drawing ~600 fans to their anniversary show in the same city where the same guys who were on top of what was their biggest show ever last year (at ~4000) sold 12000 in 4 minutes makes it seem kinda hard to say the Elite aren't reliably drawing.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

I've got something in the back of my mind telling me that your argument isn't even internally consistent, even if we take your assumptions as accurate on the base level, but I can't put my finger on what exactly you said that's giving me that instinct.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Hmm. Alright.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

David Arquette/David Flair

I figured using WCW would be cheating.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Speaking of which, it occurred to me last night that none of us thought to mention that the 12,000 seat sellout happened in 4 minutes.

It's likely that they could've done 15,000 and not outside the realm of possibility that 20,000 was on the table had they shot that high with a big enough arena. Out of curiosity, Lopen, if either of those had been the number would your stance change or not?
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

This is one of the best topics on this board in a long time.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Jakyl25 posted...

Is an electric chair how Vince thinks interrogation works?

He's taking his cues from his buddies in Saudi Arabia.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Repede
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

This argument might take on a different look once we get PPV buy numbers.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

5 Most Undeserved Wrestling Title Reigns

1. Jinder Mahal as WWE Champion
2. Pacman Jones as TNA Tag Champion with Ron Killings
3. Matt Taven and Mike Bennett as IWGP Tag Champions
4. Pastor William Eaver as PROGRESS Champion
5. Triple H as WWE Champion in 2016

I could dive deeper on this because there's been so many but these are the ones that stick out in my mind the most and I feel like for this category that's an important factor.

I'll do another if you've got one.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Are we really going to pretend like a considerable part of TNA's appeal at a certain point wasn't also that they just weren't WWE? If you're going to make that argument for one you have to make it for the other.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

I don't think selling out two 12000 houses a year is super impressive.

Then I don't think you really understand what the wrestling landscape in the US outside of WWE has been like in the last twenty years.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Lopen posted...

Not today no. I'm saying if 2010 TNA somehow took a time machine to today they could sell out that building.

Man I could not disagree more strongly with this.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Nice idea. I'll take one.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

If you believe peak TNA was a bigger deal than AEW right now you have to believe TNA could've sold out a 12000 seat building.

I see where you're coming from but I don't think that's a theory I can get onboard with.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

But would you rather have 90% of the crowd root for Page in a match with Jericho or (generously) 40% in a match with Omega? Which is the better atmosphere considering you're looking at the guy to be one of the biggest pushed stars?
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

The unfortunate byproduct of DoN being so great is that it REALLY ensures now that WWE ain't releasing anyone.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

So Double or Nothing was a surefire Show of the Year Contender but more importantly

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Super_Smash_Bros_pose.jpg
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

I'm holding out hope that after JR vomits all over himself at the events prior to TV they'll realize he needs to be relegated to a backstage role.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

- Im not advocating for this one, Id actually hate it, but Im mentioning it anyway because I can see where it might intrigue some people. If you want to have a big babyface vs heel authority figure angle, itd be as simple as the authority figure giving title shots to wrestlers with worse records than the face.

Tournament Seeding
- This kind of thing is simple. If they want to have an annual tournament for determining a title shot at a big show, use W/L records to seed the competitors. Have byes for the top wrestlers and everything.
- Along the same lines, use records to determine entry order for a big Battle Royal.
- Use it for novelty tournaments. For example, maybe we get a tag team tournament where they rank all wrestlers based on record and then pair up the opposite ends. #1 teams with #32, #2 with #31, and so on. Is it better to have a star and a scrub or do #s 16 and 17 end up dominating?
- This is probably way too out there for the general audience, but Id love it. Along the lines of the tournament seeding, just go full SPORTS with it. Bill the big tournament as playoffs and then reset all the W/L records after the calendar year-ending show as if starting a new season. That sort of thing would make it even easier to push new talent - no one will remember Jungle Boys .250 win percentage season if he ends season X on a high note and dominates season Y from the very beginning.

Miscellaneous Flavor
These are just the sort of nuggets that you can toss in on commentary every once in a while, often in combination with some of these other ideas, to enhance things a tiny bit more. Extra stats that reveal something about some wrestler or another. Mention that Sonny Kiss wins 25% of his matches via roll-up and pretty soon youll have people reacting to every roll-up he does. Private Party makes the most average tags per match and their opponents, Evans and Angelico, make the fewest. Jimmy Havoc spends the most amount of time in his matches outside the ring across the company. Fenix has a 70% success rate on moves from the top rope. And on and on and on. Some of it may be interesting to certain fans, maybe a lot of it wont. But I dont think itll overwhelm the broadcast to the point that Excaliburs just sitting there reading off a stat sheet.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

So, I've been seeing some polarizing reactions, here and elsewhere, to the idea that AEWs going to have a very sports-oriented presentation up to and including win/loss records. A lot of folks seem to think this wont work, saying its either actively oppositional to the fundamentals of pro wrestling and/or that the average fan simply wont care.

I'm a sports fan and pretty big stat geek like Tony Khan, so I myself am very excited for the idea, and Cody himself said that he doesnt necessarily see it as a cornerstone. That, to me, indicates that itll be used more as a supplement to storylines than something that theyre all going to completely revolve around.

To that end, Ive thrown together some thoughts and examples on how I think stats and W/L records can and might be used to enhance the eventual AEW product without taking it over. If nothing else I hope it'll convince people that it isn't total wrestling anathema.

In-Ring Work
- Something Ive seen fairly frequently on wrestling forums like this one is that fans would like to see more matches end on moves that arent finishers. AEW is in a good position to push that sort of idea. Imagine an inclusion in a Tale of the Tape-style graphic to the effect of: Kenny Omega wins 70% of the time with the OWA, 15% with V-Trigger, 10% with Croyts Wrath, 5% with another move
- Maybe Scorpio Sky takes the pin in 70% of SCUs losses. Over time, their opponents might try to specifically isolate Sky in matches against SCU more so than his partners.
- How someone loses matches could become especially important. If the Best Friends lose an abnormally high percentage of matches by submission, maybe the Bucks, for example, try to target Trent and Chucks backs in setup for their Sharpshooters instead of going for the Meltzer Driver as much
- Match length could come into play. If, say, older wrestlers like CIMA or Jericho have a poor record in matches that go over 20 minutes, other talent that would normally wrestle at a higher pace might try to slow things down against them

Storylines
- Streaks. Ive seen a ton of people wondering how AEW will manage to cycle talent in and out of being pushed with W/L records; specifically, how can you ever push a former low-card guy if his record sucks? Well, the great thing about stats is that they can be manipulated to suit a narrative. A 22-28 record may look a little rough for someone making a run at a midcard belt, but its not that hard to insert a mention that hes won 9 in a row and 12 of his last 13 or something like that. You can even combine that with other ideas here to really sell it (for example, hes using a new finisher thats particularly effective).
- Similarly, itd be a good way to ease wrestlers returning from injury back in. Maybe Kylie Rae has to vacate the womens title after a shoulder injury and then the next title program gets really hot so they dont want to insert her back in immediately upon return. Have her go 2-5 in her first seven matches or whatever and sell it as her being rusty or still slightly hurt, then let her start winning again when its convenient and sell it as her finally being fully healthy
- Keep fans invested in low-card wrestlers by implying their jobs may be in danger. Someone in MMA with a terrible W/L record is in danger of never getting booked again, and that could work here, too. EVOLVE used to do something similar - I remember it with Jason Kincaid specifically. Hed lose a lot of matches, commentary would sell that he may lose his booking for good if it were to continue, and then hed win a couple of opener 4-ways to buy himself some time. Someone like Brandon Cutler, a family man, can draw a lot of support from that sort of thing.
- Maybe Darby Allin has a terrible record against wrestlers considered high-flyers. Hes going into a title match for the midcard belt against Sammy Guevara. Boom, instant story.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Ah, that's fair then. I haven't followed this game too close.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

Imagine being more hyped for Psylocke than Nightcrawler.
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights

1. Godot
2. Edgeworth
3. Phoenix
4. The Judge
5. Maya
6. Simon
7. Franziska
8. Apollo
9. Larry
10. Gumshoe
---

https://imgur.com/UYamul2
Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights