Lurker > PrivateBiscuit1

Can James Wan just run the DC Universe now? He clearly has a better grasp on it than Zack Snyder because he seems like he actually enjoys super heroes.
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I like how he's still misinterpreting everyone's point that Andrade is being used super poorly right now because he thinks it doesn't matter in the future, even though nobody is arguing for or against that and are trying to simply explain that he's being used poorly, currently.

I still don't understand why he thinks that because they may be used better in the future that it doesn't matter how they're being used now despite the fact that it's a problem in the major WWE issue of their writing being absolute shit and talent is being wasted.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Or you pretty much have no retort because an obsession over a few extra wins means jack shit. "If only he had three more wins between now and September, he'd be getting properly used!"

And they'd likely all be against R-Truth with maybe a win stolen from an upper carder. How would that advance Almas in terms of story necessary to jump into relevancy? Winning matches becomes this weird obsession where it becomes more important than the booking itself. Johnny Gargano lost a shit ton of matches in 2018 and he's still the most compelling thing going in NXT.

Is this really the argument? When everyone else in this topic agrees with me, I just have no retort? Not that I wasn't trying to get on my bus so I can go home, but that I don't have an answer to your impeccable wit?

Like Lopen said, there's no story about it. Andrade is just a jobber. That's all he is. He rarely ever wins and it means nothing when he wins and nothing when he loses.

TheRock1525 posted...

How is baseless speculation any better? He was called up because there was literally nothing left for him in NXT and he's not getting the Ty Dilligenr treatment. I'd rather them keep him lowkey instead of pulling a Bayley and slapping a title on him too soon (especially since the only midcard title on Smackdown has been the KoD lately) or a pointless Bo Dallas style winning streak.

And he is literally an example of "don't obsess over early booking of a character" when he was dancing to the ring in suspenders and a fedora.

Nothing left for him in NXT? He could have kept the title for a while yet. He could be feuding with someone else. He could have done anything. He's now on Smackdown where, like I said before, when they first debuted him they did nothing with him for weeks, despite saying he'd have his debut next week for many weeks, and then it's against a local jobber. Then they say him and Sin Cara are going to have a match next week, and a month later they eventually get around to it. So clearly they had NO IDEA what to do with the dude the second they debuted him.

Hey, here's what I'd rather have Andrade Almas doing. I'd rather him being in interesting programs with different wrestlers. He doesn't need a title and he doesn't need a winning streak. He just needs a storyline that isn't a two-week program that is week 1: have match with male; week 2: lose tag match with male and female.

And it's been reported that Vince has cooled down on Andrade, which more than likely means he thinks he couldn't get over. So hardly baseless speculation.

TheRock1525 posted...

Like Rusev is literally the midcard champ right now.

Going by your logic, we can all say that it's a good thing that all of Rusev's heat with Rusev Day was totally squandered for the better part of six months so that now, eight months later, he has a title in a feud with no heat. Finally, with the benefit of hindsight, we can say it wasn't that Rusev was just poorly used this whole time!
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TheRock1525 posted...

I said no one should lament their fates because they largely ended up where they should be on the card, not that "WWE nailed everything about them start to finish."

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

How do you make these bizarre connections? We're saying he's currently being used poorly. Will two more years in the future make us to "Remember when Andrade lost six months straight? In hindsight, that was actually the perfect way to utilize him to keep people from caring about him at all instead of letting him win every once in a while to make it look like he's not a total joke and people can still care about him."

Becky Lynch went over a year without a PPV win.

Tell me exactly how much you think about that right now.

Literally not the point I was making. I swear you purposefully misread things.
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TheRock1525 posted...

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

But why should anyone have to wait years to say somebody is being used poorly?

How long was Almas in NXT until it finally clicked?

StealThisSheen posted...

And remember, if he doesn't get that chance, it's entirely his fault and his fault alone, just like Rusev and Cesaro!

Never what I said but keep spreading those lies.

How do you make these bizarre connections? We're saying he's currently being used poorly. Will two more years in the future make us to "Remember when Andrade lost six months straight? In hindsight, that was actually the perfect way to utilize him to keep people from caring about him at all instead of letting him win every once in a while to make it look like he's not a total joke and people can still care about him."
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TheRock1525 posted...

You're right, he'd be better off just being Ty Dillinger and never on TV.

Tye Dillinger is injured, is why he isn't on TV now.

Nobody is asking for Andrade to win a title or be undefeated. But the guy never ever wins. Him losing constantly just hurts him more than anything.

But why should anyone have to wait years to say somebody is being used poorly?
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How is "he never wins but he didn't get pinned this one time" a positive?

Because I'll give you one guess who Almas faces next week and whether or not he wins.
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ScareChan posted...

voltch posted...

So what actually went wrong?

He was perhaps the brightest star from Mexico post-Mistico.

He was oozing talent and charisma in the ring and his top runs were fantastic for an at the time young star.

Actually this makes me wonder

Is sin cara still in wwe

Any sin cara

Sin Cara and Hunico is still around. I have no idea why.

Oh! Another reason they screwed up Andrade. Remember when he debuted and they pushed his debut against a jobber a couple weeks. And then they hyped a match between Andrade and Sin Cara for next week. A month later Andrade and Sin Cara had a match and it was just a match.

How did this guy not get over?
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Vince had him do the thing where he goes out and loses a bunch of close matches.

And then never let him win any.

And then got super confused why he didn't get over.

And then he determined it's Andrade's fault he did not get over.
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Whoops, I missed that one in the sea of losses.

Still, with momentum like that we might be seeing him challenge for the title soon.

Edit: Also, keep in mind that Vince was really high on Andrade.
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I was curious.

https://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=5596&page=4&search=Smackdown

He has not won a single match since August. Lol
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Jakyl25 posted...

Jobbing away at the bottom of SD

This isn't fair.

He's jobbing away at the middle-top of Smackdown.
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So I went into this expecting total Riverdale-style schlock, but this show is actually really, really good. They take the Sabrina concept and go all in on the witch thing, with total dark arts, the backfiring of dark arts, and full on Satan worshipping. They don't pull any punches with this stuff.

The drama is actually really good and never really feels juvenile or too teen drama or anything like that. The characters are all actually outstanding too. I don't think there's a single character I actually dislike. And when they go with horror, it absolutely works and feels, well, chilling.

I'm currently on the last episode of the first season right now (not counting the Christmas episode they just released). Has anyone else watched this?
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Thank you @WiggumFan267!

I really wanted to play the Zero Escape games forever, so the Nonary Games Collection was exactly what I wanted, especially since I know it's something my girlfriend would really like too (because she don't video game good).

And I have really wanted Into the Breach for a while which will be a nice and frustrating, methodical game for me to enjoy in my own time.

I appreciate it buddy!
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Added everyone from this topic to my friends list, fyi.
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So uh, I don't know if you guys have seen the video of a wrestler named Shawn Phoenix who did a 450 off the top rope to the outside and cracked his head open and lost hearing in one ear permanently, but he was actually at the wedding of my buddy who wrestles. I used to jokingly call him Nipples to my buddy because he had awkwardly sharp nipple piercings. I would not advise watching the video, but that's kind of surreal to me.

That said, it was an absolutely stupid spot and he never should have done it and he is lucky to be alive right now.
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SuperNiceDog posted...

CelesMyUserName posted...

SuperNiceDog posted...

why do they do the "slow down" killing blows like the matrix? It seems cheesy. and kind of takes away from the kill?

cuz its cool

k. For me it seems to take away from the kill, turns it into kind of a joke

You're fucking weird dude.
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Like Braun is an exception to all of this since he skipped developmental. And I think he managed to excel as much as he has because his matches are like the most basic matches imaginable and he was hot shot to working with really good wrestlers on the house show circuit every night who could help him with that.

But I think he's the only relative amateur at this that could possibly benefit from this process. For instance, Lars is a guy who spent forever in developmental and he's actually really good. I don't think he'll have any problems, but it does prove that the system works for a lot of new people.
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I think there's a difference between people in NXT who are already very good like your Joes and Nakamuras and your Lacey Evans and Eliases who need that help though.

I would rather bad habits develop with people who aren't very good while they can actually put on a really good match than then get called up early and can't put on a good match yet.
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I feel like pointing out the one and only exception of people who have succeeded from NXT in the past few years does not support your claim very well, especially since Elias is still struggling to get any of his matches over.
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It's fun. I never played Smash 4 so it was nice to play a new Smash after Brawl.
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Also, I kinda want to talk about Lacey Evans for some reason.

Mike had brought up that Lacey Evans being brought up now is a bad idea because she has a ton of potential, perhaps more than most people, because she's a mother, former marine, and has an awesome story, but they still don't have her character figured out and she's not great in the ring. And that bringing her up now to put her in the hands of Vince is just going to kill her dead when she ought to be given more time to improve because the women are expected to have good matches nowadays to get over, and Lacey Evans does seem special.

And I've always kind of thought that Lacey was probably one of the best options they had for a home-grown female talent. Her gimmick never perplexed me as much as other people (because I think a lot of critics just look too far into it). But my girlfriend had seen a bit of Lacey Evans back in the day and she thought she was actually really cool, and she doesn't know anything about wrestling. And then when I actually did tell her she's a former marine and posts cute stuff of her daughter all the time on Instagram she fell in love. She shows me Lacey Evans stuff from her Instagram every so often now.

I actually hope she succeeds, but it does seem like she's set up for disaster.
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I believe anyone can see mine.

For those who don't know how to make the Wishlists visible, you have to go to your profile, edit profile, then My Privacy Settings and adjust it there.
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I actually don't care about star ratings and I tend to tune Dave out when he mentions them. I tend to think Dave has really good insight when he actually discusses why things do or don't work and I wish he'd stick to that more.

I love listening to Lance though. I actually prefer his show to most of the others now because he's really smart and is able to concisely explain why he feels a way, and I tend to agree with most everything he says.
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NBIceman posted...

I don't even understand why Jacobs, of all people, still feels this loyalty to Vince.

Because Vince gave him chances after he fucked up and probably feels like he let him down after the fact.
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A nerd posted...

Lol bunch of nerds who hate it for ruining Star Wars.

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Steiner posted...

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

What I was most bummed about was that Mike brought up that these writers will yell at fans for saying that they don't understand the stories when they say they suck and they ran out of time, and that Jimmy Jacobs attempted to defend it by making such a bizarre non-answer really quick before his plugs.

it was "and mike, there's no easy answer"

i was so fucking mad, we're not suggesting an easy answer necessarily but that was like saying "nothing would work!".

Thank you. I thought there was more to it, but maybe that was it, but it blended so much into his plugs.

But yeah. The nothing would work line. Like what. If there was a failure in the company and my boss asked me for a solution and I said "Well, I don't think anything could work" when there are literally a million solutions to do anything different, then how stupid would I look?
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FinaIFantasyV posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Also he said that you have to script promos because no one but Owens and Cena can ad-lib

Maybe part of the reason why is because THATS NOT TAUGHT BY WWE

This is fucking bullshit!

HHH cant adlib?
Samoa Joe cant adlib?
The fucking Miz cant adlib?

A quote from the interview: "Vince McMahon doesn't really trust anyone but John [Cena]."
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Yeah, you would think if he thought so highly of it he'd try to encourage taking cues from it.

What I was most bummed about was that Mike brought up that these writers will yell at fans for saying that they don't understand the stories when they say they suck and they ran out of time, and that Jimmy Jacobs attempted to defend it by making such a bizarre non-answer really quick before his plugs. I can't remember what it was but it was such a weird answer that didn't explain anything.

I feel like I would have rather stayed in the dark than have learned about this, because now I feel even more down on the whole creative process than I did when it still had some mystery to it.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Also he said that you have to script promos because no one but Owens and Cena can ad-lib

Maybe part of the reason why is because THATS NOT TAUGHT BY WWE

That's what promo class in NXT is though! They make up their own promos and then get critiqued on it! It's when they get to the main roster they say "Oh, you take this promo and read it." It sort of sounded like Jimmy Jacobs works with the guys and asks for input on the promos, but I can't honestly believe it's that simple when you get some of the really bad promos and segments like all of this Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins stuff.
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Jakyl25 posted...

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Do you understand how they fill more than 40 hours a week doing this job?

It sounds to me like a lot of it is just passing the scripts back and forth and everyone making their own notes and changes, and then notes and changes on the notes and changes, just praying Vince shows up on Monday and likes it

Isn't this process totally busted and a waste of time when one guy can get the script and change a ton of stuff at the last second?

Like I don't understand how Jimmy Jacobs could say all the things he said and then not realize how fucking insane it sounds to any normal person outside of the McMahon hivemind.
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Jakyl I am so glad you listened to this too to confirm I am not a crazy bitter person for not understanding any of this.

Was the process as ridiculously convoluted to you as it was to me? Like I still don't get why there's these teams of writers at home and on the road. Do you understand how they fill more than 40 hours a week doing this job?

Like I think Jimmy Jacobs appearing on this to try and explain it just justifies everything people say about the process because it's so inconceivable to me.
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I am trying to be totally unbiased when listening to this because I actually wanted to believe that they needed this many writers.

But Jimmy Jacobs is answering these questions and justifying it so poorly. Like he says they absolutely need 25 writers right now, and the reason is because there's a ton of moving parts and that they need one person to write one segment each and hash it out for a week straight even though sometimes Vince changes it completely at the 11th hour.

I am having such a hard time trying to follow what the whole process is and I feel like I need to listen to this a second time to understand it. Like apparently they have two teams of writers where one team stays in Stanford and writes scripts while the others travel and come up with ideas and collaborate, but somehow it takes these other writers more than 40 hours a week trying to get a script to Vince on Sunday nights?

Bryan and Mike and just trying to understand it to as respectfully as they can, but you can tell with the questions they're asking they don't seem to get what he's saying either. I just cannot wrap my mind around this process.
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I am listening to Jimmy Jacobs talk about WWE's creative process.

All I can think as he explains this is that this is the most overly complicated thing ever and that it seems impossible to fill out a 40 hour work week with this stuff.
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I don't think they'll job out Cedric or Murphy actually. I think that those two will just bulk up again and break the 205 stigma.

But yes, I think they have more potential for the company than Hawkins and Ryder do at this point.
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Eddv posted...

Here's an interesting thought exercise - if they're trimming dead weight who are more likely to go - Kurt Hawkins Zach Ryder and Tyler Breeze or Buddy Murphy, Cedric Alexander and TJ Perkins.

It's close enough in my mind that Steiners point is well taken.

I would say Hawkins, Ryder and Breeze, because I feel like the other three have proven they can do some exceptional stuff on 205 Live at least. Whereas Hawkins, Ryder, and Breeze (less so with Breeze) have never proven as much, regardless of if they've ever had a serious chance to prove it. Plus, I think Triple H would go to bat for the 205 guys.
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I more or less agree, but it's better than the show getting less and less viewership to the point that they're actively wasting money producing it. I just feel like they'll cut their losses and move some to Raw or Smackdown and some to NXT and maybe release others.
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Honestly? I think they're just going to end it in the new year and throw everyone on the main roster anyway. I think Mustafa Ali is just to show everyone that these guys won't be boring and shit when they bring them all up. You know, like Drake Maverick was brought up to show everyone that these 205 Live guys have a ton of personality and can provide hilarious segments.
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Isn't that how WWE has been phrasing it during this Mustafa Ali thing? I think I read a recap that said that.
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I know they probably consider him damaged goods, but I think TJP would be a much better inclusion for the main roster.
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Also, Jimmy Jacobs is going to be on Wrestling Observer Live tomorrow to explain why being a WWE writer is so hard.

This may be really good or really bad.
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I was going to say "Well wasn't the last match an hour long women's gauntlet match with a bunch of female geeks and Natalya?" And then I noticed the drop from hour 1-2 and 2-3 was the same.

Ouch. Way to go WWE. How does this compare to the previous two weeks then?
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Well, Vince is noted on not understanding why people would like Noble baby faces because he thinks people who are too nice are idiots in real life, so that's probably why we never have any great, good baby faces and any ones we do get are buried hard.
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So why in the world did they choose these five people from NXT to come in?

None of them have gotten super over. If they wanted to really shake things up, why aren't more over people there? Nikki Cross is the most over, probably, and she'll just be joining the stable they haven't done anything yet.

I just don't get these choices.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Read this for the Krimmus RAW special.

Next is Finn vs. Drew vs. Dolph. Drew is interviewed in ring and says he will win the Royal Rumble and go on to WM. Drew has dominated the match so far. Finn gets the win after a Coup de Grace to Ziggler. After the match, Drew attacks Dolph. He turns around and Dolph then catches him with a Zig Zag.

Yup, I was right.

DREW MAC's push is dead.

You killed Drew McIntyre's push because you are the authority.
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I appreciated a couple things in the story mode. Like, seeing some characters in action were cool (namely Bison, Balrog, Ryu, and Zangief), but man. The story was really bad and a character like Fang wasn't compelling enough in his role. And Rashid was just strange in his role too, especially with his bodyguard that can inexplicably only go "Master". And Charlie seemed kind of wasted also.

Like, it was just super poor story telling. And they utterly ruined any intrigue of Necalli just being a dude who can turn into a puddle, even though it's not hinted anywhere in his character when he fights? It just seemed poorly planned out and could have been a lot more fun if they had a better idea of what to do with each character rather than going "Oh uh... he does this. And I don't know how this part of their story resolves."
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Damn. Even Zack Ryder got more respect getting the IC Title than Asuka did getting hers.
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So I'll go ahead and guess from the reactions.

Ronda came out and cleared house and Asuka got her first title not by being a badass but by just being an afterthought grabbing the title off a ladder after Ronda killed her opposition.
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I am watching this match through gifs on Twitter.

How can Charlotte even breathe after that butt bump from Becky?
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https://twitter.com/totaldivaseps/status/1074510064042602499

I still hate this move from Charlotte. Like, she barely hits the arms of Asuka and Becky and she looks like she hurts herself more doing the move.
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