Lurker > Lopen

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I think SBell also claimed vanilla.

If there were no natural vanillas in the game, I'd be skeptical of the host not making a mention to Scum.

This is a good point.

htaeD posted...

Corrik claimed vanilla, for what little thats worth.

Very little.

You know we haven't actually had any vanilla flip

I wonder if there aren't actually any vanilla in the setup and Ulti just claimed scum by claiming it.

When I really thought about gf I thought that would be super imbalanced and discarded the idea

Just saying it like "oh well yeah it could be" without actually thinking about it feels like scum who is just trying to put suspicion everywhere and can't turn it off.

Ultimaterializer posted...

I think Lopen is the correct lynch. Chaotic players in general just need to be removed.

Good lord I just caught this

Go back to retirement. This is an awful post as either alignment.

Before I die I'll make a nice summary of my rambling. Please actually read it for chrissakes. I know you're all conceited and think your reads are better than dead town (despite a lot of you putting no effort into following the game) and never read dead town but do consider that I actually have been trying harder than most of this game combined so I probably have a better idea of where to start than randos who are basically just afking.

htaeD posted...

Why would a scum neighborizer not target Han with you in town?

A scum neighborizer would not target a scum Han with me in town.

If Han is town yes of course it could happen and that's a big part of my theory for why Han can't be GF (also I think recruiting GF is op)

Come at me bro.

Lopen posted...

No chance in hell Han gets scum neighbored with me in town. He had to know that would happen

If neighborizer is town hiding out there though

Point 100% stands. They need to claim before Dumey gets lynched too.

I emphatically think 5tar is the correct lynch today. Over even you. How's that for an applogy

Lopen posted...

and Peaf as scummates

Sorry. Dumey.

Wait wait wait no

No chance in hell Han gets scum neighbored with me in town. He had to know that would happen.

Maybe it's 5tar and Han and Han actually is gf. And that's why 5tar is suggesting GF when it's completely absurd to suggest GF here-- perspective slip. It's reasonable to him because he knows scumteam composition. But he's only suggesting it for Corrik because he's paired with Han.

Han is the n1 recruit that makes the most sense. Like bar none

We should lynch 5tar today and if he's scum consider Han and Peaf as scummates.

Han saying I'm "doctor hunting" by going for an actual correct lynch is super bad like good god.

htaeD posted...

Lopen I dont know how 5tar can be scum if HB is not.
And to be honest I have liked 5tars posts more than HBs for most of the game.

If there is a third scum I'm leaning hb and he got too clever for his own good and made a fake claim using actual scumboard data but didn't think about the implications of 5tar being mentioned onlh once because it's a fake claim. It's either him or igcd but igcd feels like something scum have been pathing to win with. I really just have the vibe igcd is town.

I really think it's probably just two scum left though so you all can lynch me if it makes you feel fuzzy inside.

I think red claims there

Corrik thinks he doesn't and I can't say he's wrong

I'm just upset we didn't get to find out which

Also yes the vote was bad

But was he scum

That's the point. Red's status as bg literally has no bearing on whether IGCD is scum or not

EDumey posted...

"you could say this about several other people" to "it doesn't matter this game"

The first being true and including a person who has a cop scan innocent is why the second is true.

EDumey posted...

The point of emphasizing that he was town protection, is that had he been around to claim, town almost certainly would have backed off.

Town doesn't necessarily buy bg there. Red doesn't necessarily claim there either.

Bullshit is saying voting records matter in this game
Bullshit is saying me and Chang couldn't possibly be bussing each other
Bullshit is saying the flip of Red as bodyguard means a damn thing when even if IGCD were scum wouldn't know Red was bodyguard

Bullshit is Hb acting like he's hot shit when he hasn't thought a bit about how his ability actually works and just claimed it to claim it so we could do the thinking for him

Lol

Han literally figured out how your ability worked better than you with like 3 hours. Completely embarrassing play.

All for legitimate reasons

I've also called pretty much everyone likely town

I've thought about the game probably more than all of you combined that's why I've thought about more scum possibilities.

Yeah

He has a cop scan on him, exactly

Maybe your voting record analysis means basically nothing

Here are the lynches.

A total idle lynch where basically no one voted
A lynch where cop scanned
A hammer where who knows where people wanted to be because IGCD wanted to be funny

There is literally no meaningful data to be gleaned from voting records. You thinking this is meaningful analysis is a joke. Unfortunately for you I think you're smart enough to know that it is and that means you're scum.

You don't get to say your argument for voting me based on voting records is good when you could use the same logic for several other people in the game.

Also I wasn't there at the end of d2. I was there like an hour from the end of day 2 and I had stuff I needed to do.

I don't think voting for the cop scan really gives anyone any credit. The fact that you're arguing it actually does is just more evidence you're scum.

Honestly the worst vote to get on my case for was day 1 and that's the one you say "well, it was fine" for.

You know Dumey if you'd really went hard on me before I picked a fight with you you'd be in better position.

Ultimately yes, scum can thrash, but objectives are important.

I see your ridiculous theories as ways to create mislynch chains and to make people disregard hb's role
I see 5tar's ridiculous theories as ways to generate doubt in confirmed roles

What am I doing? Saving myself? To what end? Do I honestly think anyone is going to think I'm town for this? No. If you think I'm town you think I'm town for other reasons, doesn't matter where the dart hits.

I'm playing for points. Redemption. I have to get this right. Because screw Chang for treating me like some second class citizen because I thought he and Han and a weird conversation OMGUS. To heck with him if he's town. I'm going to do more to win the game than his lazy ass is going to do. I'm going to catch the scum.

You know I've wheeled around pretty much everyone in the game aside from the cop and cop scans. Hell I wheeled around Corrik for a moment before I actually thought about what implications Godfather has for the setup.

It's actually funny that in spite of this 5tarscream probably has an even more paranoid take on the game than me.

13/3

Mislynch
NK + Recruit

10/4

Mislynch
NK + Recruit

7/5

Lynch scum
NK

6/4

Lynch scum
NK
JC dies

4/3

Man that's REALLY fine margin for error. Maybe it's actually just two scum left. Han does 3 mislynches to lose make sense for 16 player game or would 4 make more sense?

So actually yeah I'm just gonna say it

No lynching IGCD today

Commit to 5tar or Dumey or ME

Don't play like cowards

Lopen posted...

so IGCD has been "anti-town" whatever. Is he scum? Look at post 249-- he is practically perspective slipping that he knows IGCD is town

Of course now I go back to this and half my problem with 5tar was literally how he was treating IGCD

So now I'm confused again

It's 5tar and Dumey. Number 3, who knows.

Well praising Sbell might be too soon

I guess IGCD could have masterminded it

I could see it

Anyway. Yeah up for lynching any of those 3. Would greatly prefer Dumey or 5tar to IGCD simply because I feel IGCD doesn't have the glaring strangeness in thought process the other two have.

And unfortunately just by raw POE the last one is probably IGCD. Han scanned, Corrik scanned, Death cop, Hb analyst, Ulti being a really bad choice for recruit and not mentioned that much if he started scum, Chang trying to be double played by me + dumey.

Really smart play by SBell here. Knowing I would completely attack Han if he was neighbored.

But yeah I've seen him play this defeated card as scum-- seeing Dumey trying to steer the lynch off IGCD onto me for "information" and trying to set up a me -> chang double play just feels like IGCD actually is scum.

Also who is completely townclearing Han and not townclearing Corrik?

I'm not done though.

Han is also right. ONE mention is so low that the target is likely scum. 5tar is probably also scum. I probably wouldn't jump at this one, but he too has had some choice posts today.

5tar has had two objectives today. One, to completely shame IGCD for mislynching power (who cares, it's Bodyguard) and try to frame IGCD as some sort of righteous punishment vote-- so IGCD has been "anti-town" whatever. Is he scum? Look at post 249-- he is practically perspective slipping that he knows IGCD is town. Lots of "there is no way if you do this as town!"

But the real smoking gun on 5tar is post 292, where he says, and I quote "Death is more than likely town" and "I have a theory on Corrik but I lean town for now"

WHO IS PLAYING THIS GAME AND STILL SAYING DEATH IS 'MORE THAN LIKELY' TOWN??

Alright

So this is my last crack at this.

Here is the conclusion I've reached. Pretty much everyone on this board sucks at mafia and OMGUSes all over the place. Some people are just more subtle about it than BCT, but everyone does it. I'm going to start with one thing, and that is saying that

I do not think Hb is lying here. I think it's a creative little role and I think Ben would adore the idea. I think it's too contrived for scum to bother with, and there is no real incentive for scum to stick their head out now with this role. I think Hb showing doubt over the results... I mean, now that I really think about it, you know, REALLY think about it, it makes sense, because numbers are not cut and dry. I also think, that, with a role like this, maybe having more people to talk it out is good and I could see yeah, the value diminishing makes sense. I have some ideas for it that I would consider doing before just claiming today (scanning the same person multiple nights for example), but that's neither here nor there.

##Unvote:

I don't actually think it's Ulti. Here are the factors.

The last time we were both town, I said "it's damn Ulti" and I tried to get him lynched and was promptly ignored as I am now, and he made all these bold claims about my past games and how all this stuff was completely obvious and it seemed like he only read like 1/10 the game, and you know what man, he was town. And he is acting exactly the same here.

Ulti is typically hard to lynch, however in this game state, day 1, he was not. He had suspicion, he wasn't even trying. Now don't get me wrong, I DO think Ulti was discussed as a potential recruit. They probably had a recruitment shortlist. But why on earth would a cult recruit Ulti? It's no good. He has been just been phoning it in. You want to recruit a guy that has a lot of people saying "that guy is town" that's why Peaf was never recruited either-- lots of hovering suspicion. Strong player, but it's hard to say it.

Now what are we leading into. Well, let's start by thinking about how a scum chat would actually work. I think we've got something like this. Scum says "hey guys, who do we recruit I'm considering ___ ___ ___ ___" and so you've got this list of guys, they're ALL being mentioned over and over because it's kind of a roundtable-- well what do you think about Ulti, well I think he's a bad idea. That's why Ulti was mentioned a lot. That does NOT mean Ulti was recruited.

I postulate that yes, Hb was onto the right thing with the recruit, but it was not Ulti that was recruited, but DUMEY. Really, on a per day basis they had about the same amount of mentions. Dumey just makes more sense as a recruit too.

Now why have I been considering Dumey. Well hes had a few choice posts. Last topic, post 177. He says that he would rather lynch me than the guy he thinks is obvious scum because I give more information. He then goes on to create this universe where Chang and I totally cannot both be town nor both be scum, but yet Ulti and I can. He also says that if Chang is town, Lopen is scum, and if Lopen is town, Chang is scumhe is clearly trying to path town into mislynching the survivor of Chang and Lopen. I strongly suggest rereading page 4 and page 5 of last topic. This is when I said wait what if its Dumey and I think I was onto something there.

Post 260 Dumey suggests a completely absurd idea that scum would literally keep a list of town claims, and thats why Ulti was mentioned so much. That is not to say Ulti isnt town, but I dont feel its logic town would honestly come to. This feels like an attempt to disregard Hbs ability as having any value more than an honest attempt to digest anything.

Even now, Dumey has danced around pushing a lynch on anyone and does a check in post. Yes, the recruit being Dumey just makes more sense.

I'm not asking to tunnel you I really need to digest what your goal is as town before I give one last crack to try and figure out the game.

Hb.

Explain one more time to me

Why did you feel it necessary to claim today if you were just going to push for igcd anyway. What are you risking by waiting until tomorrow.

I'm not even sure why it makes sense for one's mind to go there

Like I was like "oh shi he's right" but after being chastised by Han for role fishing it's like "of course we probably have more protection than BG and Peaf why wouldn't we they don't even stop kills"

Random thought I had...

PunishedBen posted...
There will be mechanics in this game that could punish scum all rushing on and hammering someone to try and end the game in MYLO/LYLO, or trying to end day early

Before hb brought this up did anyone else in the game even remember this rule? I didn't.

htaeD posted...

That said I also feel like you skipped some posts then because Han and Chang both claimed that they did talk about Sbell.

They did but the focus for town seemed to be about finding cult, sbell was a footnote by their account.

Which to me seems really weird to focus on. Still does.

Lopen posted...

Hb what's your logic on your scans of Ulti, 5tar, and Dumey

What were you looking for in each?

And why were you looking for in each?

I have some rambling stuff over there but let's keep it going over here.

Hb what's your logic on your scans of Ulti, 5tar, and Dumey

What were you looking for in each?

Like the main thing that is giving me pause on Ulti is that while he in general terms makes sense as a recruit he doesn't really make sense as a recruit THIS GAME because he was a sloth day 1 and hasn't really done any better since.

Like honestly if Ulti doesn't just blindly accept Chang's dumb role claim I'm seriously doubting myself here. Because man it's just not a good recruit.

But then taken my skepticism if hb's claim in mind I honestly think maybe Ulti isn't the recruit and hb is just implying he is in his bus so we don't consider who the actual recruit was. But I feel Corrik or Han being the recruit would be unfair so then the question is who would be. You absolutely don't recruit Chang or Hb in any circumstance, no offense. Just no longevity in those players.

I also will offer in my defense that while I did say we shouldn't lynch sbell I was not going like, super hard on it

In my offense that's exactly what scum typically does though.

If I am playing this game as cult though I absolutely bus the hell out of sbell on day 2 and try to have me and a well chosen recruit with a lot of town equity just carry. Like I see why sbell didn't recruit Han but he absolutely should have recruited Han.

htaeD posted...

Lopen comes out the worst here tho. I want to ask him if he can remember why he liked Sbell to begin with?

I thought what little posts he had made sense (probably because he was agreeing with me-- but I felt the avenues he was taking showed legitimate thought. For instance saying that it made no sense that Chang and Han had a discussion entirely on cult leader and didn't talk about shared suspicion on sbell to me seemed prudent) and felt no need to pressure a lurker that made sense when you had a lot of people that also weren't participating much. I felt that Sbell's excuse would resolve itself in time and he would be more obvious as scum as days passed.

I also felt that (like you) he was being primed by scum as a mislynch because you had a lot of murmurings but no hard pushes on him. That's why I was fairly adamant on not lynching him.

I'll address after the game Han but there are plenty of reasons to think that as you not saying Plum is town there when mapped with your other stuff said that day.

Also I wanted to see if anyone would attack me for it. I found leaving that would be interesting bait

But mostly just the Ben thing

htaeD posted...

Why did you add the bit about you not being blockable to your first claim?

Pointless randomness as homage to Ben.

My favorite Titania plays

Titania + Goblin (Titania first) same turn on a lane with 2. If they play a single guy Titania stays on your side. If they play no guys Titania and Goblin lock the lane and you swing her back for +10 turn 6.

Titania turn before Professor X, get initiative (easier with Titania on your side) drop Xavier into Titania's lane and she can't go across.

Corrik7 posted...

Says the guy who didn't vote him. Okay.

I had stuff I urgently needed to do

Note I also didn't pull up Han calling plum scum and believe me I wanted to