Current Events > Your honest thoughts on people who think Goku would lose to Superman?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Goku eventually wins.

Superman wouldn't kill him.
Goku wouldn't give up until he was badly beaten.
Goku gets stronger every time he recovers from a severe injury.

Eventually, this results in Goku surpassing Superman.

Daremo posted...

Goku gets stronger every time he recovers from a severe injury.

that has not been a thing in forever

Evening_Dragon posted...

Everyone who cares knows that Superman beats Goku any day of the week, but what are you saying

i mean what i explained

AT did not know anything about martial arts so he was not capable of actually writing goku with any real martial arts skills

i said this in response to a person talking about superman loosing a real life boxer

but strip goku of his super powers and make him have normal human level abilities

and he would loose to the same boxer

that is all i was getting at

AceMos posted...

remove gokus super str speed ect

and yes yes he would

as goku is a terrible martial artist

Goku has ultra instinct which is raw skill and allowed Roshi to dodge attacks from Jiren, a dude like a billion times stronger. If you equalized the power levels there's zero chance he even gets hit in a boxing match.

Unsuprised_Pika posted...

And nah Ki is closer to meta gene powers then it is to magic.

Magic also straight up exists in the Dragon Ball verse and is treated differently than ki. Basically all of Babidi's shit and a lot of Buu's abilities.

I mean no way Goku beats the strongest versions of Superman ie Cosmic Armor, One Million, and what not but he starting to match the Earth 1 Superman in general

Remember Base Jiren was able to break out of a prison that froze him in time and Moro, Granolah Arc Goku far surpassed that Jiren. We're not sure exactly how powerful his upper limits are but definitely reaching or surpassing Universal level isn't a stretch to say the least, most likely the high tiers in the ToP probably surpassed that.

GS4Life posted...

I mean no way Goku beats the strongest versions of Superman ie Cosmic Armor, One Million, and what not but he starting to match the Earth 1 Superman in general

Remember Base Jiren was able to break out of a prison that froze him in time and Moro, Granolah Arc Goku far surpassed that Jiren. We're not sure exactly how powerful his upper limits are but definitely reaching or surpassing Universal level isn't a stretch to say the least, most likely the high tiers in the ToP probably surpassed that.

see thats the problem with modern dragon ball

what does "stronger than time" mean

what does "shake the world of void" mean

characters just get stronger but we have no idea by how much

there is no logic to the universe anymore

and it had shakey logic to start with

Even in Z Super Vegito managed to beat up Gohan Buu after getting turned into a piece of candy
SSJ3 Gotenks and Super Buu were capable of tearing holes through dimensions
And if you want to go by Anime Filler, Gohan Buu nearly destroyed the Universe in a fit of rage

Now that still isn't much compared to a lot of stronger DC (and Marvel) characters but still crazy powerful

AceMos posted...

see thats the problem with modern dragon ball

what does "stronger than time" mean

what does "shake the world of void" mean

characters just get stronger but we have no idea by how much

there is no logic to the universe anymore

and it had shakey logic to start with

modern dragon ball?

it was always the problem with dragon ball

AceMos posted...

see thats the problem with modern dragon ball

what does "stronger than time" mean

what does "shake the world of void" mean

characters just get stronger but we have no idea by how much

there is no logic to the universe anymore

and it had shakey logic to start with

I mean clearly you get to nigh God Destruction levels you can break the laws of reality and have resistance to soul and time erasing (see Golden Freeza and even Base Goku). Haki just erases you from existence entirely. Though in Base Goku's case he was only hit by a small portion of Sidra's power. Just like with cosmic or God-like character in American comics there is different levels to it in DB

We're just not exactly sure where there true destructive power is at anymore. Z was probably galaxy-ish levels ignoring filler but Beerus effortlessly bodied a version of Goku that was stronger than anyone in Z except maybe Gohan Buu and Vegito. Super hasn't gone all out in a power showcase but we are clearly reaching Unviersal/Multi-Dimensional more abstract levels of power not even including the Zenos and Grand Priest or other Angels.

GS4Life posted...

We're just not exactly sure where there true destructive power is at anymore. Z was probably galaxy-ish levels ignoring filler but Beerus effortlessly bodied a version of Goku that was stronger than anyone in Z except maybe Gohan Buu and Vegito. Super hasn't gone all out in a power showcase but we are clearly reaching Unviersal/Multi-Dimensional more abstract levels of power not even including the Zenos and Grand Priest or other Angels.

and yet the series still does not depict them that way

goku still cant fly between planets

his instant transmission is WEAKER than it was in Z (in Z he could telport to the afterlife and even outside of the universe where as in super he needs a space ship he cant go that far)

gas who is far stronger than jiren

takes a while to fly a unknown distance

enough time for a namek who sucks at healing to fully heal goku and vegeta and even tell a full story

AceMos posted...

goku still cant fly between planets

As far as I know he's never tried it. Even if you are several times faster than light traveling to planets outside the Solar System will still take quite a while. Some of those stars you look at in the sky have ceased to exist when the dinosaurs were around it just takes 100s-1Ks of million years for light to reach us.

his instant transmission is WEAKER than it was in Z (in Z he could telport to the afterlife and even outside of the universe where as in super he needs a space ship he cant go that far)

He could travel to the afterlife no problem as long as there was a strong enough Ki to detect. I don't recall him ever being able to teleport outside the Universe IT requires Ki he can sense.

gas who is far stronger than jiren

takes a while to fly a unknown distance

enough time for a namek who sucks at healing to fully heal goku and vegeta and even tell a full story

plot convenience exist in American comics too

Beating Superman would still be a stretch it's an interesting idea as opposed to Z and GT who would get bodied.

GS4Life posted...

He could travel to the afterlife no problem as long as there was a strong enough Ki to detect. I don't recall him ever being able to teleport outside the Universe IT requires Ki he can sense.

supreme kais world is outside of the universe

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


That would be cruel and unusual punishment.

AceMos posted...

goku still cant fly between planets

Because he still dies to space. That's just a limit of his physiology. He'll always need a spaceship or teleportation to bypass space.

Also space is a big place. Even dudes like Frieza and Moro still used spaceships, because there's just so much space between relevant planets that flying the whole way is nonsensical. Only once you're at Jiren/Gas levels of strength does just flying between planets make any sense; Goku needs transformations to reach that level, so he'd be wasting massive amounts of stamina traveling, when he could just teleport instead.

AceMos posted...

his instant transmission is WEAKER than it was in Z (in Z he could telport to the afterlife and even outside of the universe where as in super he needs a space ship he cant go that far)

He can still teleport to the afterlife, he just needed permission to go to Hell specifically (there normally isn't a good reason to allow travel to or from Hell).

Goku's a legit gamer tho. Better off torturing Vegeta

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/f16ef2e5.jpg

These conversations are annoying to me because of how the "power scaling community" treats "toon physics" and "composite characters". If a character has ever done something impossible in a silly way, they're officially trading blows with God. "Anti feats" don't matter after that. And then a bunch of people are like "well Superman pulled a galaxy on a chain in a magazine strip in 1950" when there hasn't been a Superman on screen in living memory that can actually do that when things get serious.

Mainline canon UI Goku effortlessly roflstomps basically every mainstream depiction of Superman you can bring up. I think the conversation was probably more interesting when the best Goku had was SSJ1 or 2 or 3. But Super gets pretty absurd

Doe posted...

These conversations are annoying to me because of how the "power scaling community" treats "toon physics" and "composite characters". If a character has ever done something impossible in a silly way, they're officially trading blows with God. "Anti feats" don't matter after that. And then a bunch of people are like "well Superman pulled a galaxy on a chain in a magazine strip in 1950" when there hasn't been a Superman on screen in living memory that can actually do that when things get serious.

Mainline canon UI Goku effortlessly roflstomps basically every mainstream depiction of Superman you can bring up. I think the conversation was probably more interesting when the best Goku had was SSJ1 or 2 or 3. But Super gets pretty absurd

Then bullets bruise Goku and you bend over backwards to explain why that don't matter I bet

WingsOfGood posted...

Then bullets bruise Goku and you bend over backwards to explain why that don't matter I bet

I dont know what specific thing you're referring too, but Goku's brother effortlessly caught a shotgun slug between his fingers in the first episode of Dragon Ball Z. There's a scene around maybe cell saga where Krillin throws a rock at Goku's head and it hurts him because he had his ki aura down to relax. That wouldn't really be applicable during a fight.

WingsOfGood posted...

Then bullets bruise Goku and you bend over backwards to explain why that don't matter I bet

It was an alien bullet

WingsOfGood posted...

Then bullets bruise Goku and you bend over backwards to explain why that don't matter I bet

Bullets bruise Goku because ki is mostly used manually and if the fighter isn't focused on protecting themselves their durability drops massively. In early Z Raditz effortlessly catches a bullet, and Goku at the point where he was wounded by bullets is exponentially stronger than Raditz; the difference is because Goku was caught off-guard and not expecting to be attacked.

SecretBase posted...

Bullets bruise Goku because ki is mostly used manually and if the fighter isn't focused on protecting themselves their durability drops massively. In early Z Raditz effortlessly catches a bullet, and Goku at the point where he was wounded by bullets is exponentially stronger than Raditz; the difference is because Goku was caught off-guard and not expecting to be attacked.

Yeah but Bulma was shooting Goku when he was a kid before he even knew what chi was.

A_Good_Boy posted...

It was an alien bullet

No random human hillbillys bruise him

A_Good_Boy posted...

Yeah but Bulma was shooting Goku when he was a kid before he even knew what chi was.

True but in each instance he saw Bulma pull out the gun at least, he wasn't completely oblivious to the danger. >_>

Doe posted...

Mainline canon UI Goku effortlessly roflstomps basically every mainstream depiction of Superman you can bring up. I think the conversation was probably more interesting when the best Goku had was SSJ1 or 2 or 3. But Super gets pretty absurd

superman can fly from one end of the universe to the other in seconds in modern comics

thats beyond anything goku has shown at all

look comic books are stupid with the crap they pull

but they at least give fucking numbers unlike dragon ball

AceMos posted...

superman can fly from one end of the universe to the other in seconds in modern comics

thats beyond anything goku has shown at all

look comic books are stupid with the crap they pull

but they at least give fucking numbers unlike dragon ball

But universe shakes!!!

And yet humans in stands not effected

Superman crosses the universe in seconds in the current mainline Superman comic by Joshua Williamson? I'm willing to eat crow on this but I can't find anything like that from checking online. He can't do that in any of the movies in our lifetime either but I guess comics should be the main reference point.

To be clear I'm not arguing that a "composite Superman" would lose to Goku, there have been enough comics over a century that you can pull stuff out where Superman is capital G God level. I'm saying for any of the stuff most people are most likely to have interfaced with Superman from, he's not doing Goku level stuff

WingsOfGood posted...

But universe shakes!!!

And yet humans in stands not effected

I also want to point out that "Dragon Ball is not written very scientifically" is not really an argument against how strong the comic is portraying Goku as. The Superman feats people are attempting to present, like flying from one end of the universe to the other in a moment, would also annihilate everything vaguely near his trajectory if not the universe itself

Doe posted...

I also want to point out that "Dragon Ball is not written very scientifically" is not really an argument against how strong the comic is portraying Goku as. The Superman feats people are attempting to present, like flying from one end of the universe to the other in a moment, would also annihilate everything vaguely near his trajectory if not the universe itself

actually in the vacuum of space there would be no issue going at those speeds (ignoring the fact it would be impossible to do of course)

and when i said modern comics i did not mean the current run just with in modern times

but i can give you a example of him crossing a great distance that far exceeds anything goku has done

justice league 6th dimension

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/9403f52e.jpg

WTF does the guy have to find some uninhabited solar system every time he has to sneeze?

Doe posted...

I also want to point out that "Dragon Ball is not written very scientifically" is not really an argument against how strong the comic is portraying Goku as. The Superman feats people are attempting to present, like flying from one end of the universe to the other in a moment, would also annihilate everything vaguely near his trajectory if not the universe itself

That is why you compare what is actually shown.

Goku destroying universe is never shown. Anyone who claims he is universal is bsing. Shaking the universe shown to do nothing. Was a cool line nothing more.

This guy sums it up well

Read at your own peril cause truth might hurt

https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/jivq4r/nobody_in_dragon_ball_is_even_close_to_universal/

Sheesh dude really exposes Goku glazers

Sheeesh

Well one dude in Dragonball is universal: Zen-o

Tyranthraxus posted...

Well one dude in Dragonball is universal: Zen-o

technically yes he is full on multiversal

thoe its more accurate to say he has a special move that deletes a multiverse

his actually stats are a pure mystery

but yes in terms of feats he is multiversal

YugiNoob posted...

WTF does the guy have to find some uninhabited solar system every time he has to sneeze?

The better question, IMO, is why he went to a star system at all instead of just landing somewhere in the lightyears of empty space between them.

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

The better question, IMO, is why he went to a star system at all instead of just landing somewhere in the lightyears of empty space between them.

He probably wanted to see what he could do with a super sneeze.

YugiNoob posted...

WTF does the guy have to find some uninhabited solar system every time he has to sneeze?

Well in that specific comic he had just ingested an outrageous amount of sneezing powder or some stupid shit like that

Tyranthraxus posted...

Well one dude in Dragonball is universal: Zen-o

And why he is feared.

Goku needed his power vs Zamasu as Goku was nowhere near universal (this was post glazing beerus vs goku fight too)

All these supposed universal people somehow scared of Zenos why? Makes no sense unless they aren't

Dude really lists it off in that post

Sheesh

WingsOfGood posted...

And why he is feared.

Goku needed his power vs Zamasu as Goku was nowhere near universal (this was post glazing beerus vs goku fight too)

All these supposed universal people somehow scared of Zenos why? Makes no sense unless they aren't

Dude really lists it off in that post

Sheesh

He also needed his power cause Zamazu was literally immortal and kept on exploiting the zenkai boost to come back stronger if he actually did manage to get hurt. Dude was juggling hax so only hax could beat him.

A_Good_Boy posted...

He also needed his power cause Zamazu was literally immortal and kept on exploiting the zenkai boost to come back stronger if he actually did manage to get hurt. Dude was juggling hax so only hax could beat him.

it was goku black who is not immortal who was getting random zenkai boosts even thoe goku himself cant get those anymore

fused zamasu is just immoratl he never got any zenkais

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/9403f52e.jpg

Not buying it how does he know how they died eons ago? He just killed them and made up that story.

AceMos posted...

it was goku black who is not immortal who was getting random zenkai boosts even thoe goku himself cant get those anymore

fused zamasu is just immoratl he never got any zenkais

I figured when fused he still had some bullshit hax going on caused Fused Zamazu still had Zamazu's immortality working for him even when Vegetto was melting his body.

A_Good_Boy posted...

I figured when fused he still had some bullshit hax going on caused Fused Zamazu still had Zamazu's immortality working for him even when Vegetto was melting his body.

you dont really heal from near death when your immortal

Zenos was called cause Zamasu fused with the universe

Universal killer Goku shouldn't have need to call him
But we know he isn't actually universal killer goku

AceMos posted...

you dont really heal from near death when your immortal

He just wasn't dying. Goku was stronger than Zamazu but he was immortal so he could up the fight despite being weaker. Then when fused with Black he was half-immortal so Fused Zamazu could be hurt and take on bodily damage from the Goku Black part but the god Zamazu part just healed it back up. So he could keep fighting cause his Fused body was just regenerating over the damage. That's when Zeno had to step in, cause Vegetto couldn't beat him in time and he just regenerated from the beating anyways.

A_Good_Boy posted...

So he could keep fighting cause his Fused body was just regenerating over the damage. That's when Zeno had to step in

Uhh did people forget he took over everything

Wasn't 2 people fighting anymore

His existence took over that whole universe

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8zhgxEQZ2Yw

AceMos posted...

it was goku black who is not immortal who was getting random zenkai boosts even thoe goku himself cant get those anymore

fused zamasu is just immoratl he never got any zenkais

Anime Fused Zamasu was half-mortal and was still able to zenkai. He loses to SSBKKx10 Goku, hits himself with lightning in disgrace, and then is all of a sudden able to fight on par with SSB Vegeto (who is way beyond just 10x stronger than SSB Goku). As for why hitting himself with lightning bypassed the "you can't do it by hurting yourself" zenkai rule I guess the damage caused by his Zamasu half still counted against his Goku Black half. >_>

WingsOfGood posted...

Uhh did people forget he took over everything

Wasn't 2 people fighting anymore

His existence took over that whole universe

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8zhgxEQZ2Yw

Lol I do remember that. Dude was hax on top of hax on top of hax. He transcended power levels so needed a dude stronger than power levels to blink him away.

I think the manga version might have been different. Instead of fusing with the universe he endlessly replicated.

A_Good_Boy posted...

Lol I do remember that. Dude was hax on top of hax on top of hax. He transcended power levels so needed a dude stronger than power levels to blink him away.

I think the manga version might have been different. Instead of fusing with the universe he endlessly replicated.

Yeah Vegeta blew him to bits... And then every bit regenerated into a full power Fused Zamasu. >_>

How it happens is up to the author, but supposedly all Toriyama wrote in his notes for the event is literally, "Zamasu becomes infinite." Basically he needs to be some type of impossible to deal with BS to justify summoning Zeno against him.

AceMos posted...

that has not been a thing in forever

Superman hasn't juggled planets since forever, that doesn't stop anyone.

Who ever the writer wants to win will win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4_zFYnnn2Y