Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 452: Fork in the River

(+) Yeah! (+)

Dancedreamer posted...

I'll believe it's ignorance when they call out Trump on not delivering on lowering the price of eggs.

But most of them have mysteriously started to understand that the President doesn't control the price of eggs all of a sudden.

There is a case when it can still be ignorance in this case, and that's when they are subservient to the puppetmasters' narrative. It's basically a form of hypnotism - you can't really blame the mind for the body's actions in that state.

Dancedreamer posted...

But most of them have mysteriously started to understand that the President doesn't control the price of eggs all of a sudden.

The vocal types, yes. I'm by and large not talking about the more vocal supporters but the unspeaking majority of his voters (many of which have been swindled)

To the less vocal types, it will take time to react, but I do believe the reaction is coming.

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Given how incumbent governments all around the world were upended last year because they got held accountable for inflation

Yes, anyone who voted for trump "because inflation" was willing to overlook how obviously racist he is.

Not only that, but their justification is just wrong. Inflation wasn't a result of the biden administration, and in fact they were the reason our country had *less* inflation than most other countries.

I agree, but it happened all over the world and not just in the States.

Having said all this, I'll admit I was perusing ResetEra threads featuring people upset about Chuggaaconroy's misconduct allegations from last year not doing anything to dent his reputation while his initial accuser was harassed off of Twitter, and people condemning James Rolfe just for having a prerecorded video of him used for the anti-woke "The Real Game Awards". And then there are the TV Tropes forums where I swear people seem to be unable to talk about much beyond race, gender, or LGBTQ stuff to the point of obnoxiousness, and where 80% of the time something released before 2015 is brought up it's to complain about it being offensive. Better than alt-right garbage but not fun.

Then I go and check out how the alt-right guys I used to follow are doing and I'm revolted to the point of quitting fast.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Yes, anyone who voted for trump "because inflation" was willing to overlook how obviously racist he is.

And I won't judge those people for that if it's legitimately 100% where their heart was. It sucks but we live in a time that sucks.

A bleeding heart over human rights, if said rights don't directly affect you or those close to you, is a luxury to those who are relatively better off. People are suffering out there. They don't deserve to be treated as the enemy by default because the price of eggs affects them with their meager paycheck to paycheck at best living an incredible amount more compared to how much it inconveniences you.

Like people are literally starving and going homeless out there. It isn't as cut and dry as a lot of privileged Internet outrage mongers try to paint it as.

we have reached peak lms

Like

I will legitimately not be friends to a vocal Trump supporter, because yes I do completely agree with the rhetoric of "you voted to take away the rights of people I love so you can fuck right off" and that's what those people voted for.

But I know people who are struggling who I will give a pass to if they voted Trump (by and large I don't know who they voted for). They didn't vote for that no matter how much people on the Internet who aren't actually struggling financially but might want to pretend they are claim they did. They voted to try to get stability and voted for someone who can't really help with that and is in fact worse for it, out of ignorance. Which again, sucks, but they're not terrible people.

Lopen posted...

And I won't judge those people for that if it's legitimately 100% where their heart was. It sucks but we live in a time that sucks.

A bleeding heart over human rights, if said rights don't directly affect you or those close to you, is a luxury to those who are relatively better off. People are suffering out there. They don't deserve to be treated as the enemy by default because the price of eggs affects them with their meager paycheck to paycheck at best living an incredible amount more compared to how much it inconveniences you.

Like people are literally starving and going homeless out there. It isn't as cut and dry as a lot of privileged Internet outrage mongers try to paint it as.

Right, the only defense to actual racism is a ridiculous level of ignorance.

But even then it's on a sliding scale. I'm sure many people voted in ignorance, but many were probably only lightly or moderately ignorant to the point that they still had to do some minor mental gymnastics to not reconcile the utterly abhorrent aspects of Trump and his campaign promises.

It's not even a ridiculous amount of ignorance honestly. The propaganda machine was firing on all cylinders. You needed to dig to absolutely know it made no sense. People who are struggling often don't have the luxury of having time or resources to dig.

Finances are human rights. Free markets have proven that very powerfully over the last 300 years. There is simply no freedom without financial freedom.

Socialists, keynesians, accelerationists all don't give a shit about financial freedom. They will always sacrifice it for some perceived enlightened end goal, and it never works.

It's so dumb that Democrats refuse to use this as part of their messaging when they are so clearly better economically than Republicans in the modern era. They are so afraid of their billionaire friends.

Lopen posted...

It's not even a ridiculous amount of ignorance honestly. The propaganda machine was firing on all cylinders. You needed to dig to absolutely know it made no sense. People who are struggling often don't have the luxury of having time or resources to dig.

Eh. I have some incredibly apathetic relatives and acquaintances who don't have the time or inclination to be bothered staying up to date on current events, and they know the kind of ideas that Trump represents.

You don't have to be actively searching for the information to find out what kind of person he is.

foolm0r0n posted...

Finances are human rights. Free markets have proven that very powerfully over the last 300 years. There is simply no freedom without financial freedom.

Socialists, keynesians, accelerationists all don't give a shit about financial freedom. They will always sacrifice it for some perceived enlightened end goal, and it never works.

It's so dumb that Democrats refuse to use this as part of their messaging when they are so clearly better economically than Republicans in the modern era. They are so afraid of their billionaire friends.

The problem with this is that it leads to oligarchy when unchecked and that freedom disappears. The vast majority in the US have no freedom precisely because of finances.

Lopen posted...

A bleeding heart over human rights, if said rights don't directly affect you or those close to you, is a luxury to those who are relatively better off.

I truly think you've got this backwards, though the bolded part might just be doing a ton of work here.

LightningStrikes posted...

The problem with this is that it leads to oligarchy when unchecked and that freedom disappears.

It also leads to oligarchy when "checked". Except the socialist oligarchy has outsized centralized power that becomes a weapon against the poor, 100% of the time. Then the socialists gasp and wonder how it could've happened. At least the keynesians and accelerationists are aware they're screwing over the poor.

I have no idea the tone of these threads (they're nearly 500 deep and I've barely been able to skim and keep up since they move real fast, etc) so I have no idea how this will be received, but just want to voice something and see if there's similar feedback or if I'm insane.

I find myself annoyed at how reductionist the "but muh eggs cost a dollar more!!" argument has become.

Like... people are trying to say "you're voting for trump because you want cheaper eggs? what's wrong with you?"

That level of reduction is asinine. It's about so much more than that. Everything is more expensive. Eggs, bread, produce, fruit, vegetables, laundry detergent, chicken, beef... everything feels it's anywhere from $1-$5 more each. That adds up. If your weekly grocery trip has increased by $100 for the same stuff while your wage hasn't increased in years... THAT'S the issue.

Secondly, even the reduced argument itself on the surface looks dumb. Eggs are commonly seen as a basic source of food - filling, nutritious, and reasonably priced. So when someone says "lol you want cheaper eggs what's wrong with you," my reaction is like... the fuck? You want this basic piece of literal life-sustaining food and nourishment NOT to cost as little as possible? We've entered a world in which wanting cheaper eggs is a bad thing. But I digress, that's less of the issue.

The issue is how "muh eggs" has been reduced from something that is actually a reasonable, non-partisan concern; your basic necessities have been creeping up and up in price while your wages have remained stagnant. It's incredibly dismissive and reductive (and again, non-partisan, because literally everyone needs food) and is one of those things that has been annoying me for months.

I did not vote for trump btw - feel the need to say this since it's year of our lord 2025 and this might be seen as a somewhat right-leaning question

Cupcake2006 posted...

Secondly, even the reduced argument itself on the surface looks dumb. Eggs are commonly seen as a basic source of food - filling, nutritious, and reasonably priced. So when someone says "lol you want cheaper eggs what's wrong with you," my reaction is like... the fuck? You want this basic piece of literal life-sustaining food and nourishment NOT to cost as little as possible? We've entered a world in which wanting cheaper eggs, is a bad thing. But I digress, that's less of the issue.

Nobody is saying "What's wrong with you wanting cheaper eggs?"

Everyone is saying "Nothing either candidate can do will actually lower the price of things, because they are not something the President controls."

Are we truly doing the luxury of beliefs?

foolm0r0n posted...

It also leads to oligarchy when "checked". Except the socialist oligarchy has outsized centralized power that becomes a weapon against the poor, 100% of the time. Then the socialists gasp and wonder how it could've happened. At least the keynesians and accelerationists are aware they're screwing over the poor.

Disagree, Revolutionary Catalonia. Like I said you should really be an anarchocommunist instead youd have much more fun!

Dancedreamer posted...

Everyone is saying "Nothing either candidate can do will actually lower the price of things, because they are not something the President controls."

The president can't control the price of eggs, but it's definitely possible for Congress to pass bills that would lower the cost of eggs. And the president could make working with them to make that happen a priority.

Granted, most people probably wouldn't like that because anything that would immediately lower egg prices would almost certainly to egg shortages instead. But it is technically possible.

Edit: Just realized you said "things", not eggs specifically. But the argument still holds for any particular item, and literally nobody wants the price of everything to drop.

Cupcake2006 posted...

my reaction is like... the fuck?

This should be a clue that you are misunderstanding the argument entirely. Everyone wants cheaper eggs. Like you said, it's a perfect proxy for the average citizen's economic needs in general.

The issue is that 1) Trump's policies are powerfully inflationary and WILL raise the price of eggs and 2) even if you believe Trump is an economic genius, there's better ways to lower the price of eggs other than giving the federal government over to being rapist, racist, fascist billionaires. So at some point you have to admit you're kinda attracted to the whole rapist, racist, fascist thing, it's not just about the eggs.

Dancedreamer posted...

Everyone is saying "Nothing either candidate can do will actually lower the price of things, because they are not something the President controls."

That's not true, federal policy does drive tariffs, bailouts, and interest rates, which affect inflation. Biden did a lot of stuff we haven't seen in 30 years to keep inflation low. Trump is doing a lot of stuff that will raise inflation. They do have significant control.

LightningStrikes posted...

Disagree, Revolutionary Catalonia. Like I said you should really be an anarchocommunist instead youd have much more fun!

Does being anarchocommunist require shitty logic like using an exception that proves the rule? That sounds terrible. I prefer good logic.

I mean you can look at a lot of anarchist societies that worked thats just the most famous example. You can look at most squats probably quite close to you as a small scale example.

Cupcake2006 posted...

Secondly, even the reduced argument itself on the surface looks dumb. Eggs are commonly seen as a basic source of food - filling, nutritious, and reasonably priced. So when someone says "lol you want cheaper eggs what's wrong with you," my reaction is like... the fuck? You want this basic piece of literal life-sustaining food and nourishment NOT to cost as little as possible?

It's not really what you're talking about here but yes, correct, I do not want eggs to cost as little as possible, because that requires factory farming and a huge amount of animal suffering. I'm not even a vegetarian, much less a vegan, but it seems reasonable to me for animal products to be somewhat expensive. So like, I'm way more concerned with how hard it is to find vegetables at reasonable prices than eggs (this goes back to your "everything has gone up in price" point, which is correct). Note: the current price increase is not because of better conditions for chickens so it's not really relevant in 2025, but my point here is there's a middle point that exists between skyrocketing prices and "as low as possible".

Anyway the reason most people (who aren't me) make fun of "but eggs" is because Trump is a fucking economic disaster and everyone should know that. If you want cheaper eggs he might literally have been the single worst person in the entire country to elect.

Our inflation was lower than most of the developed world's. So that really shouldn't be viewed as a Biden failure. Yes, higher prices suck but it would have been worse without Biden's actions.

Also Trump is promising trade wars that will almost certainly make even more stuff more expensive.

So voting for Trump because of global inflation making things more expensive when his own promises would make that worse seems foolish.

Kenri posted...

"as low as possible"

I should've clarified - generally I meant "humanely" as the caveat. I want things as low as possible as long as current health and safety protocols are being followed

Okay then yeah, 100% agreed.

Cupcake2006 posted...

I should've clarified - generally I meant "humanely" as the caveat. I want things as low as possible as long as current health and safety protocols are being followed

But also if we can improve human life by exploiting animals, then it is moral to do so. I think there's a lot of reasons that race-to-the-bottom factory farming is bad, which cause downstream issues to human health and sustainability, but the sanctity of a chicken's life is not one of them.

This is why "humane" is so precisely defined to include all the most valuable ways to exploit animals. Like honestly, if you were a chicken, would you really accept a human's definition of "humane"? It's obviously biased.

please god let's not have this debate here

fuck the Casual Revolution of 2007

Are eggs really $9.00 in the US on average? For how many? Thats insane.

It was anywhere between like $3-$6 for a dozen at the end of 2024.

It's gone up since then because of bird flu and the associated shortages but idk where it sits exactly today

Prices are usually for 12 large eggs.

$3-4 for normal, $5-6 average for organics. It can go up to to $9 or $10 for high end ones.

The problem is you actually can't buy eggs right now. My Whole Foods hasn't had any for over a month. I go in the evening so I'm sure they have some in the morning. I usually get eggs at other stores which haven't run out yet, but it is weird to see it empty at WF.

my local supermarket has them around $7.80/dozen right now, but that seems to be on the lower end. It's gotten pretty nuts, yeah.

Kenri posted...

I truly think you've got this backwards, though the bolded part might just be doing a ton of work here.

I'm saying a person who is directly affected should obviously care in all situations or they're terrible people. Of course that is true.

However a person who isn't directly interacting with the social issue and literally can't afford to live shouldn't be talked down to by some bleeding heart person on the Internet who is financially much better off either. Both groups have their own forms of oppression they're dealing with in the system, or often in the case of the privileged Internet person, doesn't actually have the oppression first or secondhand but just wants to preach.

Like I'm not saying racists and bigots don't exist in large numbers among Trump voters just that painting in such broad strokes and trying to make out the whole body of Trump voters as bigots or racists doesn't seem useful or accurate to what's happening and that the country deserves slightly more credit than it's been given.

I love when the topic just becomes environmental storytelling for a bit for me

The country doesn't deserve any credit. We're actively a bunch of morons working to make sure future generations become even bigger morons.

If you're poor and not racist, so you voted Trump because you genuinely believed he would help the economy and don't have the energy to care about racism, then I judge you WAY harder. Not as a racist, but as someone who is ignorant on your #1 issue, which is the economy.

I think it's fine to be single issue, good actually because it's the best way to get people engaged who would otherwise be too apathetic or overwhelmed. But to be single issue AND completely wrong about that single issue is just unacceptable in any situation.

I see. Eggs are about the equivalent of $4.00 a dozen here (and are exempt from VAT) or about the same as the US price before the surge relating to bird flu. That makes sense, and you can see why there would be such a focus on eggs as it is clearly a more dramatic rise in price than the general inflation right now.

Of course, it is yet another aspect that Trumps policies will make worse.

foolm0r0n posted...

I judge you WAY harder. Not as a racist, but as someone who is ignorant on your #1 issue, which is the economy.

For the record I absolutely agree with this btw. But like, one is "well you're an idiot" and one is "you're an awful person"

Like respect is lost either way but different ways and the latter is much worse in terms of "can I still get along with you"

Eh I put them in the awful person bucket that I can't really get along with. It's like driving a car poorly or using poor gun safety - that kind of ignorance is more than a personal choice, it's a dangerous weapon that hurts those around you.

Also I think knowledge and competence to the best of your ability is a moral imperative for a member of a society. Shit maybe I AM a communist.

y'all think having trump family members are embarrassing but I've got a canadian trumper family member you can't compete

bro's actually trying to argue to my dad that canada should become the 51st state

oh man i should ask my dad his opinion on that; he finally broke down and got US citizenship after living here literally 30 years (and was a trump supporter). He's normally canada #1 forever on like any topic, but this is an interesting crossroads with his other political beliefs

of course, that would involve purposefully bringing this up and you know i think i'll pass

it's extra funny because my brother was really into the Freedom Convoy and in that period he touted up about patriotism which was always hilarious at the time because he was nevvvver a particularly patriotic person, he's more of a nihilist only interested in himself

so to go from Canadian Patriot to Canada should give up its sovereignty in the span of 3 years lmao

modern propaganda is really good(bad, evil, will doom us all)

It's moreso social media addiction and it's structure is designed to keep you hooked, then your day is wasted and dumb people get mad and blame government. But only when it's democrats.

But the real issue is social media addiction

Lopen posted...

However a person who isn't directly interacting with the social issue and literally can't afford to live shouldn't be talked down to by some bleeding heart person on the Internet who is financially much better off either.

What about by some bleeding heart person who is financially worse off? Because the typical bleeding heart that I run into lives in poverty.

Kenri posted...

What about by some bleeding heart person who is financially worse off? Because the typical bleeding heart that I run into lives in poverty.

Well first of all there are varying degrees of poverty, but I mean sure, every poor person isn't voting Trump? Duh? All I'm saying is if you had a poor person who was single issue economy, which I feel many are (not all-- until a few years ago I was a "bleeding heart poor person" so yes I know we exist), and they voted Trump for that reason, I wouldn't say "oh that person is a piece of shit" without any other information about them.

Kenri posted...

Because the typical bleeding heart that I run into lives in poverty.

Typically they are low-income but enjoy strong benefits from their environment, which is either rich cities with lots of amenities, or their parents suburb home or something. They're not even close to the poorest people in the country who live in rural areas or forgotten regions like Appalachia.

https://federalnewsnetwork.com/hiring-retention/2025/02/some-irs-employees-taking-opms-deferred-resignation-offer-told-to-keep-working-until-may-15/

Some IRS employees who accepted the Office of Personnel Managements deferred resignation offer are now being told they must stay on the job through May 15, because the agency has deemed their work essential to this years tax filing season.

lol so much for 8 months paid leave.

Anyone who is judging anyone else for their political beliefs or votes is hurting their cause. On all sides. The more people you judge, the more you hurt your side.

But you're not worried about judging us backfiring on you?