Board 8 > All Purpose Wrestling Topic 513: Breakking the Cycle

(+) Yeah! (+)

Revolution's main event might have been the worst way to waste a cash in.

Or at least bottom two, since Austin Theory still exists

I'd count Real Americans for Swagger too, but you could argue that was a tag team and manager I guess

ZeroSignal posted...

Revolution's main event might have been the worst way to waste a cash in.

Or at least bottom two, since Austin Theory still exists

anti cash in on principle so aborting it was by far the best part of the match

rest of the show was very good though!

LiquidOshawott posted...

anti cash in on principle so aborting it was by far the best part of the match

While probably true, having a beaten down Moxley win by submission over a fresh Christian is weak af.

At least when Drew failed his cash in last July, it was due to outside interference and was more credible as a result of it.

Storm/May is officially one of the best feuds in wrestling history. Not just women's.

FFDragon posted...

Storm/May is officially one of the best feuds in wrestling history. Not just women's.

That's a list that would be interesting to compile and check out.

And it'd be 100x more credible than the list WWE just made for the 30 greatest heel turns of all time

1. Cena sells his soul to The Rock
2. Hogan is the third man
3. Rollins executes plan B on Shield
4. HBK turns on Jannetty
5. Dominik turns on Rey
6. Xavier and Kofi kick Big E out of New Day
7. Becky's heel turn at Summerslam 2018
8. Jimmy helps Reigns beat Jey at Summerslam 2023
9. Nikki Bella turns on Brie at Summerslam 2014
10. HHH helps Orton cash in
11. Batista heel turn in 09
12. Paul Bearer turns on Undertaker (first time)
13. Shane McMahon heel turn in 19
14. Bob Backlund snaps on Bret Hart
15. Mega Powers explode
16. Eddie Guerrero turns on Rey
17. Trish Stratus picks Christian over Jericho
18. Scott Steiner joins nWo
19. CM Punk attacks Rock on 1000th episode of Raw
20. Matt Hardy betrays Jeff in 2019
21. Ciampa attacks Gargano, ending DIY
22. Ric Flair turns on Sting
23. Sami Zayn rescues Kevin Owens at HIAC
24. Lita dumps Kane for Edge
25. Mark Henry's fake retirement announcement
26. Bayley attacks Becky Lynch
27. Balor attacks Gargano
28. Tatanka sells out
29. Nakamura low blows Styles at WM34
30. Kevin Owens turns on Zayn moments after Zayn wins NXT title

Imagine making a list like this and not even putting Roman the Tribal Chief on here but somehow thinking Becky, Jimmy, and Nikki were top 10 all-timers

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/8c3943c6.jpg

Absolute cinema

ZeroSignal posted...

1. Cena sells his soul to The Rock
2. Hogan is the third man

Literally the only reason they made the list I'm sure. The rest was all zero thought.

Is Austin at Wrestlemania X7 not on the list at all?

Some of those listed I'm less surprised are on the list and more that they are that high. Nikki at 9, Xavier & Kofi at 6, and Becky at 7 stick out. Dominik at 5 also feels a tad overrated.

There's probably like 20 heel turns (either WWE or under their library) off the top of my head that could have made the list over some of these entries. Let's list them (those bolded being the most notable omissions)...

1) Andre The Giant in 1987 (by far the biggest omission, especially as that was high on previous lists)
2) Owen Hart in 1994
3) Austin's in 2001 (even if there's a strong argument against it)
4) Fabulous Freebirds in the 80s (that kickstarted the whole Freebirds/Von Erichs rivalry)
5) Larry Zbyszko in the early 80s (this one really gets overlooked by WWE)
6) Chris Jericho in 2008
7) Daniel Bryan in 2018
8) The New Day the RAW after Wrestlemania 31 (that slowly led them to reinvent themselves)
9) The Rock in 1997
10) Bret Hart in 1997
11) Christian in 2001
12) Paul Orndorff in 1986
13) Triple H in 2002
14) Triple H in 1999
15) Vince McMahon in 1997 (Understandable why this didn't make the list given them wishing to distance themselves from Vince)
16) Jey Uso in 2020
17) Drew McIntyre in 2023?
18) Dakota Kai in 2019
19) Jake Roberts in 1991
20) Sgt Slaughter in 1990

Blaziken posted...

Is Austin at Wrestlemania X7 not on the list at all?

Nope. Guessing it didn't make the list due to Vince McMahon's appearance

Lopen posted...

Literally the only reason they made the list I'm sure. The rest was all zero thought.

I'd put HBK's heel turn in the top 10 as well.

But the rest? Yeah, I'm fully willing to wager zero thought.

Raw recap:
- Jey Uso defeated Grayson Waller. Jey fights off Theory afterwards, but gets choked out by Gunther after
- Logan Paul compares himself to Rock and Cena and offers his soul to The Rock. He then tries to beat down a comedian until AJ Styles makes the save
- New Day defeated LWO after interference from a suspicious patriotic Luchador
- Another Cody promo, who promises Cena will find out that Cody's the captain now!
- Raquel Rodriguez defeated Bayley to become #1 contender for the Women's IC title
- Chad Gable denies being a Luchador to Cathy Kelly. Shortly after, another person wearing the same American Made mask was dragged out by security
- Cole interviews Iyo and Bianca in the ring. Rhea cuts off both and told Bianca she should've just focused on Naomi and Jade instead of being ringside last Monday. The two are about to get in a scuffle until Iyo slaps both women and leaves the ring angry
- Cage match: Seth Rollins defeated CM Punk after an angry Roman Reigns dragged Rollins outside the cage. Reigns then spears and stomps Rollins outside the ring. Upon seeing Punk talking to Heyman, Reigns enters the cage and spears Punk to end the show

Smackdown next week in Barcelona
- DIY vs Street Profits for the WWE Tag titles
- Randy Orton vs Carmelo Hayes
- Charlotte Flair vs B-Fab
- Miz interviews Cody Rhodes on Miz TV

Raw next week in Brussels
- Cena's first appearance since Elimination Chamber!
- Breakker vs Balor for the IC title
- Penta vs Kaiser in a no holds barred match
- Jey Uso vs Austin Theory
- Dakota Kai vs Ivy Nile

ZeroSignal posted...

Revolution's main event might have been the worst way to waste a cash in.

Or at least bottom two, since Austin Theory still exists

Why did they not close the show with Storm/May? Insane

guess that settles where punk is at WM.

Yeah, looking like we're getting the Punk, Roman, and Rollins triple threat.

Night 2's main event for sure is Cena vs Cody.

Night 1? You have 3 candidates: This match, Jey vs Gunther, or potentially Iyo vs Bianca vs Rhea (fully expecting her to get added after last night's antics)

ZeroSignal posted...

I'd put HBK's heel turn in the top 10 as well.

But the rest? Yeah, I'm fully willing to wager zero thought.

Still zero thought just a broken clock situation imo. Hurr hurr Cena turn best of all time was the objective. Which I mean it's a good turn but anyone who puts it over Hogan's not even one month in is an idiot.

Fully in agreement there. Cena's turn is #2 for sure though.

Hogan's is undisputedly #1. Almost no one knows about Hogan's brief heel stint at the very beginning of his career; plus when the heel turn happened, it was out of nowhere and fans threw trash in response. Also, he still wrestled for years to come.

A lot of people still remember Cena's first heel run, plus he waited until the literal end of his career to do this. Imagine if Hogan waited until 2012 to create the New World Order in TNA.

Hogan immediately cut a promo eviscerating the fans. Cena just flexed and posed with The Rock and Travis Scott.

Smackdown recap...
- Jimmy Uso and Jacob Fatu want a shot at LA Knight. A brawl that includes them + Bloodline + Braun ensues and Nick Aldis pulls a Teddy Long
- Knight, Strowman, and Jimmy defeated The Bloodline
- Charlotte Flair defeated B-Fab. After the match, Tiffany Stratton appeared to brawl with Flair.
- Miz TV with Cody Rhodes doesn't last long at all, as Miz demands the crowd quit singing Cody's theme. Miz eats a Cross Rhodes and Cody declares he'll see Cena on Monday.
- Damian Priest defeated Shinsuke Nakamura by DQ after McIntyre interfered. Priest takes a Kinshasa and 2 Claymores
- Randy Orton defeated Carmelo Hayes. Owens prevents Orton from executing the punt afterwards
- Gunther defeated Axiom
- Paul Heyman declares 3/14 to be Roman Reigns day, promoting WWE 2K25. He and Roman Reigns will be on Smackdown next week in Italy!
- Teaser promos for potentially Ray Fenix Jr and Aleister Black
- Street Profits defeated DIY for the WWE Tag titles

Smackdown next week
- Jacob Fatu vs Braun Strowman
- Jade Cargill vs Liv Morgan or Raquel Rodriguez
- Zelina Vega vs Piper Niven

Raw in Brussels!
- Cena cuts his first heel promo in 25 years, calling the fans awful and ungrateful and declaring he's dumping every last one of them. Cody interrupts and says he wants to fight the Cena that held the company on his back for over a decade, not The Rock's puppet.
- Penta defeated Ludwig Kaiser in a no holds barred match
- Dom pitches the idea of Penta in Judgment Day to Finn, who is not impressed.
- Dakota Kai defeated Ivy Nile
- Iyo Sky and Bianca Belair sign the contact for Wrestlemania. Rhea Ripley comes out afterwards and powerbombs Iyo ONTO Bianca through the table and signs the contract as well
- Jey Uso defeated Austin Theory in less than 30 seconds. Gunther fails to ambush Jey afterwards
- Rey Mysterio and Dragon Lee defeated The Creed Brothers. Afterwards, the patriotic luchador appears and attacks Rey and Dragon.
- Seth Rollins appears, promising to meet up with Punk and Roman this Friday in Italy
- Karrion Kross continues to try and get under AJ Styles' skin
- Main event: Bron Breakker defeated Finn Balor to retain the IC title after Dominik Mysterio's interference backfires
- Penta helps Bron fight off Judgment Day afterwards, the two stare each other down to end Raw

Raw in Scotland next week
- Another Cody and Cena confrontation
- Lyra Valkyria vs Raquel Rodriguez for the Women's IC title
- Jey Uso and a mystery partner vs A Town Down Under

also a cool spot, patriotic luchador's german suplex of rey onto dragon. that was clean as fuck.

https://youtu.be/YOFrM7L3Hqk?si=38SigFvzN9dZeGQ7&t=117

Tony Khan learned his lesson from Revolution and didn't have a Moxley/Cope rematch headline tonight's Dynamite.

One that was horribly overbooked, by the way.

tony finally realized toni is a bigger draw tbqh

We also now live in a timeline where Dean Ambrose is the most disliked member of Shield.

Definitely didn't see that coming

I'll still take Moxley over Roman

Smackdown in Italy!
- KO tries to convince Randy to pursue the tag belts with him. Randy rejects the offer and instead challenges KO to a match at Wrestlemania
- Damian Priest and Jimmy Uso defeated Drew McIntyre and Shinsuke Nakamura
- Tiffany and Charlotte interview. If you've heard one Charlotte promo, you've heard them all.
- US title #1 contendership: Braun Strowman defeated Jacob Fatu by DQ after Solo interfered.
- Piper Niven defeated Zelina Vega after interference from The Green Regime (Chelsea Green + Alba Fire + Piper Niven)
- Liv Morgan defeated Jade Cargill after interference from Naomi. Liv is officially the second person to pin Jade since she debuted in AEW.
- Street Profits defeated Los Garza
- Roman and Rollins exchange words, before Punk comes out and it escalates into an all-out brawl with all 3 men pointing at the Wrestlemania sign at different moments

Smackdown next week in London
- LA Knight vs Braun Strowman for the US title
- Street Profits vs Pretty Deadly for the WWE Tag titles

Wrestlemania 41
- Cody Rhodes vs John Cena for the WWE Championship
- Gunther vs Jey Uso for the WHC
- Iyo Sky vs Bianca Belair for the Women's World title
- Tiffany Stratton vs Charlotte Flair for the WWE Women's title
- Randy Orton vs Kevin Owens

Raw in Scotland
- Cena ensures he knows the fans better than they know themselves, and that he'll win the title and retire with it. Cody promises Cena will leave Wrestlemania empty handed
- The Usos defeated A-Town Down Under. Gunther fails to attack the Usos afterwards
- Lyra Valkyria defeated Raquel Rodriguez to retain the Women's IC title. Bayley helps Lyra fight off Raquel and Liv afterwards
- Natural Disasters announced for the WWE Hall of Fame Class of 2025. Sure, why not?
- El Grande Americano defeated Dragon Lee
- Adam Pearce does not accept Ripley's signature on the WM contract, but gives her a title rematch next week
- CM Punk discusses the contract signing in London for Wrestlemania
- IC title: Bron Breakker defeated Penta by DQ after Judgment Day interfered. Dom's attempt to recruit Penta ends with nothing, so Balor beats down Penta and Bron with a chair

Raw in London next week
- Iyo Sky vs Rhea Ripley for the Women's World title with Bianca Belair as the guest referee
- Gunther vs Jimmy Uso
- Another Cody and Cena confrontation
- Logan Paul calls out AJ Styles

Wrestlemania 41
- Cody Rhodes vs John Cena for the WWE Championship
- Gunther vs Jey Uso for the WHC
- Iyo Sky vs Bianca Belair for the Women's World title
- Tiffany Stratton vs Charlotte Flair for the WWE Women's title
- CM Punk vs Roman Reigns vs Seth Rollins
- Randy Orton vs Kevin Owens

cena's promo of walking out with the belt reminded me way too much of Punk's promo of walking out with the belt. both times, with the ROH belt and the WWE one after the pipebomb when he won.

feels like it's setting the seeds for that feud there already.

For the first time in history, WWE is inducting a Wrestlemania moment into the Hall of Fame.

The first induction of such? Bret Hart vs Steve Austin at Wrestlemania 13

Smackdown in London....
- Orton respects Cody but lets him know that he'll be pursuing a 15th world title someday. Drew interrupts and blames Temu Undertaker for him not main eventing Mania
- Street Profits defeated Pretty Deadly to retain the WWE Tag titles
- Bret Hart vs Steve Austin at WM13 to get inducted.
- Piper Niven and Alba Fyre defeated Katana Chance and Kayden Carter
- US title: Braun Strowman defeated LA Knight by DQ when Fatu interferes and takes down Braun.
- Charlotte Flair defeated Michin
- Drew McIntyre defeated Randy Orton
- Jimmy Uso defeated The Miz
- Priest ambushes Drew and choke slams him on a windshield
- Roman, Rollins, and Punk sign the contact for Wrestlemania. Punk receives word this will main event Wrestlemania, but also ensures that Paul Heyman still owes him a favor

Raw in London next week
- Iyo Sky vs Rhea Ripley for the Women's World title with Bianca Belair as the guest referee
- Gunther vs Jimmy Uso
- Another Cody and Cena confrontation
- Logan Paul calls out AJ Styles

Smackdown next week
- Ray Fenix's debut
- Naomi vs B-Fab

Wrestlemania 41
- Cody Rhodes vs John Cena for the WWE Championship *Night 2 main event*
- Gunther vs Jey Uso for the WHC
- Iyo Sky vs Bianca Belair for the Women's World title
- Tiffany Stratton vs Charlotte Flair for the WWE Women's title
- CM Punk vs Roman Reigns vs Seth Rollins *Night 1 main event*
- Randy Orton vs Kevin Owens

there was a real question as to who was main eventing night 1 between Iyo/Rhea/Bianca or Punk/Rollins/Reigns so i'm glad the latter won out in the end. just plain bigger stars and actually main eventing means something.

I still wonder what the favor CM Punk is getting from Heyman. There was a rumor that there'd be a stipulation added where the winner of night one's main event gets added to Cody vs Cena

Obvious one would be Heyman turns on Reigns or something but that's less a favour and more a massive life choice, so idk

Also with the main events confirmed, this means Jey Uso is the latest Rumble winner to not main event Wrestlemania, joining the following...

Jim Duggan
Big John Studd
Ric Flair
Lex Luger*
Mr. McMahon
Rey Mysterio
Undertaker
Alberto Del Rio
Sheamus
Shinsuke Nakamura
Seth Rollins
Asuka
Charlotte Flair (twice)
Ronda Rousey
Rhea Ripley
Bayley

HBK, Austin, Cena, Orton, and Edge also won at least one Rumble that didn't become a WM main event, but they still won a second (or third in Austin's case) Rumble and DID main event Mania from it.

* - Tied with Bret Hart, would get a shot at Yokozuna halfway through Wrestlemania X instead

Main Event* Jey Uso

ZeroSignal posted...

Seth Rollins

he main evented last year

he means specifically main eventing the Wrestlemania after they won the Rumble

KommunistKoala posted...

he means specifically main eventing the Wrestlemania after they won the Rumble

This. Seth Rollins opened Wrestlemania the year he won the Rumble.

Chances are, I'm willing to say Jey Uso opens Wrestlemania Night 1 and loses

Raw in London!
- Cena and Cody in another war of words. Cena claims he buries mediocrity, not talent. Cody reminds Cena that no crowd has ever chanted "You can't wrestle" to Cody! An attempted Cena cheap shot ends with Cross Rhodes
- The New Day defeated The New Catch Republic. Afterwards, New Day announced their intention to challenge the War Raiders.
- Gunther defeated Jimmy Uso. Afterwards, he beats the hell out of Jimmy, Jey, and a security guard.
- AJ Styles and Logan Paul exchange words, and Paul gets the upper hand in their scuffle, pointing to the Wrestlemania sign after a Paulverizer to Styles
- Finn Balor and Dominik Mysterio defeated Bron Breakker and Penta. Penta suffers his first official pinfall loss in WWE.
- Balor takes all the credit for the win and heads to discuss a title match. Liv encourages Dominik to do the same.
- Iyo Sky and Rhea Ripley ends in a no contest after guest referee Bianca Belair gets tired of getting assaulted by both competitors. Rhea ends Raw with Riptides to both women

Raw next week
- Lyra Valkyria vs Bayley for the Women's IC title
- El Grande Americano scheduled to compete

Admission: if they aren't wearing their color coded merch, I still can't tell you which uso is which

I still don't get the hype behind Jey. It's all catchphrase rather than actual wrestling. Gunther should absolutely retain but I have serious doubt that he will

Genuine question. Was Stone Cold actually a good wrestler, especially in his later years?

Catchphrase and promo work with the bloodline stuff that made him stand out a lot. But he sells merch like crazy to the kids so it's worth a shot to build him up.

.. unfortunately yeah he's the inferior Uso in all other areas.

Seanchan posted...

Genuine question. Was Stone Cold actually a good wrestler, especially in his later years?

Not especially but he was in an era where they didn't care about the actual wrestling aspect as much.

I still think he was more capable of having a solid match than Jey though. His WM match last year was a war crime

It's a shame too because their tag-team work was often great and that doesn't just happen out of nowhere. I'm hoping Jey puts it together - or is at least carriable by Gunther.

I think Gunther could carry a mop to a good match so I don't think that will be an issue at least. We have already seen it between these two before

There's no genuine winner in the WHC bout.

If Gunther wins, then he's 5-0 against Jey and the Rumble meant nothing for the 4th time in 5 years.

If Jey wins, then Gunther's dropped titles at back to back Wrestlemanias.

Overall, I'm not as excited for Wrestlemania 41 as I'd like to be. I'm still hoping for the best intentions, but right now, we have the following...

- Cody vs Cena, an angle where Cena's only scheduled to make minor appearances, all of which are overseas. And zero Rock appearances so far.
- Gunther vs Jey, explained above already by all of us
- Seth vs Roman vs Punk, arguably the one match I'm excited for, but part of the plot is Punk complaining his way to finally main eventing Wrestlemania
- Tiffany vs Charlotte, where Tiffany just got done doing her best work as a heel and now has to be a face against the most unliked woman on the roster, who also happens to be Ric Flair's daughter with Hulk Hogan style levels of booking
- Iyo vs Bianca vs Rhea - Rhea had no plot agenda after Liv, Bianca got pulled away from Naomi/Jade at the last second, and Iyo's acting like a spoiled child
- Owens vs Randy, a decent revenge angle
- Logan vs Styles, a fine case of "These two aren't doing anything, let's link em up" (much like Styles and Knight last year)
- McIntyre vs Priest, genuinely a step down for McIntyre after having the best feud and match of 2024. Dude deserves a heel world title run that lasts longer than 5 minutes

I'm trying not to be overly cynical here. I'll still watch both nights of Mania and probably enjoy it as long as it doesn't reach WM32 levels of atrocious.

priest has been dogshit since the punishment martinez days and I just want the experiment to stop

Since I got a minute, here's my tierings of Wrestlemania main events...

Elite
Austin vs Rock (17)
Angle vs Lesnar (19)
Benoit vs HHH vs HBK (20)
Edge vs Undertaker (24)
HBK vs Undertaker (26)
Bryan vs Batista vs Orton (30)
Rhodes vs Reigns (40)

Great
HBK vs Bret (12)
Austin vs HBK (14)
Batista vs HHH (21)
Cena vs HHH (22)
Cena vs HBK (23)
Reigns vs Edge vs Bryan (37)
Owens/Zayn vs Usos (39)
Rhodes vs Reigns (39)

Good
Savage vs Dibiase (4)
Hogan vs Savage (5)
Hogan vs Warrior (6)
Bret vs Yokozuna (10)
Austin vs Rock (15)
HHH vs Jericho (18)
Cena vs Rock (28)
Reigns vs Lesnar vs Rollins (31 - Only good because of Rollins)
Becky vs Charlotte vs Ronda (35)
Taker vs Styles (36)
McIntyre vs Lesnar (36)
Bianca vs Sasha (37)
Austin vs Owens (38)

Meh
Hogan/Mr. T vs Piper/Orndorff (1)
Hogan vs Andre (3 - Match is total ass, but the impact influences the rating here)
LT vs Bigelow (11)
HHH vs Rock vs Big Show vs Foley (16)
HHH vs Orton (25)
Cena vs Rock (29)
HHH vs Reigns (32)
Reigns vs Lesnar (38)

Bad
Hogan vs Bundy (2)
Hogan vs Slaughter (7)
Hogan vs Sid (8)
Taker vs Sid (13)
Cena vs Miz (27)
Reigns vs Taker (33)
Reigns vs Lesnar (34)

Fucking Atrocious
Hogan vs Yokozuna (9)