Current Events > Those who post 'From the river to the sea', to be denied German citizenship

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://m.jpost.com/international/article-822454

The use of maps in which the territory of the State of Israel is replaced with the colors of the Palestinian flag is also in contravention of the law.
Individuals who posted 'From the River to the Sea' on social media will be denied German citizenship, according to stipulations in the new citizenship law, as cited by German channel NDR (North German Radio and Television) and the Federal Interior Ministry this week.
People who are employed in Germany can work to obtain citizenship after five years, compared to the eight years previously required in the law. While the law came to pass on June 27 of this year, the requirements have been tightened, especially regarding "Racism, antisemitism or any other form of misanthropy rule out naturalization," according to the German Federal Ministry of the Interior.
One of the requirements for citizenship, clause 10.1.1.1.3.1, concerns "Germanys special historical responsibility for the National Socialist injustice and its consequences, especially for the protection of Jewish life."
This clause stipulated that an individual who contravenes Germany's legal commitment to the protection of Jews may not be eligible for citizenship.
This clause included denial of the fact or extent of the genocide of the Jews of Europe by Nazi Germany (the Holocaust) and accusing Jews or the State of Israel of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.

It also included the following statements, "From the River to the Sea," possibly with the addition "Palestine will be free," "Let's go bomb Tel Aviv," "Death to Israel," and "Israel, child murderer."
The use of maps in which the territory of the State of Israel is replaced with the colors of the Palestinian flag was also considered in contravention of the law.
'Incompatible with German law'
The above can be considered grounds for exclusion from citizenship, as, according to NDR, people are considered incompatible with a commitment to the German constitution if they violate Germany's special historical responsibility towards Jewish life.

This stipulation includes liking, sharing, or commenting on such slogans on social networks.
The Federal Ministry of the Interior said that, when such slogans are uttered, the context in which they are said should be taken into account. For example, if "statements such as 'From the River to the Sea' coincide with an explicit call for violent actions against the State of Israel," this should be questioned in a citizenship interview.
While NDR stated that German states have autonomy over naturalization under their authority, a spokesperson explained to the dpa said that "The practice of recent years has shown, however, that the states are guided by the Federal Ministry of the Interior's application instructions, so that the legal regulations on nationality law are applied uniformly."
In March, it was reported that Germany's citizenship test would now include questions on the Holocaust, Judaism, and Israel to filter out people with antisemitic views, according to a report by Der Spiegel.
If you dont share our values, you cant get a German passport. We have drawn a crystal clear red line here, Interior Minister Nancy Faeser told Der Spiegel.
Antisemitism, racism, and other forms of contempt for humanity preclude naturalization.
In August, a protester who chanted "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" at a Berlin rally was fined 600 by a German court.

I've not been super familiar with the phrase itself, but according to AP, even the English implication can be controversial depending on who is hearing it.

https://apnews.com/article/river-sea-israel-gaza-hamas-protests-d7abbd756f481fe50b6fa5c0b907cd49

Ask Jewish people in London whats so chilled them about the current spike in antisemitism, and many will cite what seems like the ubiquity of the slogan. It is a sign, they suggest, that theres much to fear.
Have no doubt that Hamas is cheering those from the river to the sea chants, because a Palestine between the river to the sea leaves not a single inch for Israel, read an open letter signed by 30 Jewish news outlets around the world and released on Wednesday.

And apparently in Arabic, it doesn't translate as "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" but as "From the water to the water, Palestine will be Arab".

So I can see why a country like Germany would be hesitant to grant citizenship to those who (proudly) support the statement because in the original Arabic it more directly states converting Israel into being (an) Arab (state).

Ironic since the slogan's origin was most likely originally a Zionist slogan.

Germany is so one-sided on this

I totally understand and support cracking down on antisemitism and sentiments against the existence of Israel. If the slogan is indeed anti-Semitic then sure, ban it. But Germany is unilaterally supporting the acts of Netanyahu and his government and that is something I don't agree with. No government is above criticism

Is this sudden change due to the right-wing party winning big in Germany?

Humble_Novice posted...

Is this sudden change due to the right-wing party winning big in Germany?

No, it's been the overall government sentiment ever since the conflict started. This is just concretising it

I think they forgot to freeze their peaches.

teep_ posted...

But Germany is unilaterally supporting the acts of Netanyahu and his government and that is something I don't agree with.

It does feels like Germany has traded one genocide for another.

They absolutely have a mandate to protect Jewish life after what they did. They should be chained to that forever.

But essentially turning a blind eye to Netanyahu's war crimes and crimes against humanity in the name of preserving Jewish life is enabling the same kind of atrocities to happen again. And it's really hard, politically, to call someone to the mat over this, given how abominable hamas is. The 30k dead Palestinians weren't abominable, though, and their lives shouldn't have been forfeit as a result.

Germany has a rich history of controlling freedom of expression to perpetuate extermination of other populations.

German government claims to be fighting racism by being racist.

wackyteen posted...

It also included the following statements, "From the River to the Sea," possibly with the addition "Palestine will be free," "Let's go bomb Tel Aviv," "Death to Israel," and "Israel, child murderer."

I wonder if they'll apply this statement equally for Jewish people who express the same sentiment or if Germany will yield to the appropriate historical guilt they normally do?

And for those unaware, Netanyahu has literally held up a map showing Israel stretching from the river to the sea. While there may have been a time when this statement was a trademark of anti-Israel existence proponents, it's been adopted by the Israeli government itself in their own expressions of desired genocide.

rick_alverado posted...

German government claims to be fighting racism by being racist.

It's "a little bit" more complex than that.

Humble_Novice posted...

Is this sudden change due to the right-wing party winning big in Germany?

The antisemitic party that peddles in conspiracy theories? That party?

gu-gohan posted...

It's "a little bit" more complex than that.

While this is true, simplifying things doesn't automatically make them incorrect.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

we talk about them all the time. maybe you're confused because we don't enjoy shitty ce-tier jokes about those things

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

If they dont want to talk about it, why did they just sentenced a 99 years old woman of complicity in more than 10,000 murders just because she was the secretary to SS commander?

Wonder when theyll start to notice the deja vu

See Germany actually remembers and talks about it's history meanwhile America and Republicans pretend our history didn't happen

Israel Government pulled a 180 and became the culprits of the same very thing they were victims of previously.

Germany pulled a 360 by going too far on the trying not to be Nazis again rhetoric they didnt realize they actually went 360.

ZaruenKosai posted...

Israel Government pulled a 180 and became the culprits of the same very thing they were victims of previously.

Germany pulled a 360 by going too far on the trying not to be Nazis again rhetoric they didnt realize they actually went 360.

I wouldn't say they've become the culprits of the exact things they've been victims of previously, but they are quickly burning through any good will or benefit of the doubt you can give them.

I understand that they know what Hamas' goal is, or at least the goal of government(s) funding Hamas. To eradicate or neuter Israel as a sovereign government/territory in order to return the land to Palestine/an Arab state. It's a tale often seen in history, if with a modern context.

Just, their response, and now widening of the conflict to include Lebanon, is quickly burning through the good will they have generated over the decades with the people (not politicians) of the Western world by engaging in repeated acts of extreme violence against otherwise innocent civilians.

There's only so many times you can attack schools housing women and children with the claim "those buildings were harboring Hamas" before people think you're bullshitting.

incredible that the apartheid state that has been keeping people in an open air prison so that they can occasionally murder them is finally losing "the benefit of the doubt." they only had to start openly bombing other countries with the munitions we keep dumping in their lap

wackyteen posted...

I wouldn't say they've become the culprits of the exact things they've been victims of previously, but they are quickly burning through any good will or benefit of the doubt you can give them.

Is there any good will left to burn?

ultimate_reaver posted...

incredible that the apartheid state that has been keeping people in an open air prison so that they can occasionally murder them is finally losing "the benefit of the doubt." they only had to start openly bombing other countries with the munitions we keep dumping in their lap

LightHawKnight posted...

Is there any good will left to burn?

I'm not saying they should have had it this long, just commenting on the current state/situation from what I've seen/heard.

While European countries are to be commended for not endlessly replenishing Israel's stores of ammo and bombs, in the end most really don't give a shit about Arabs being killed en masse unless they happen to be disgustingly rich.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Germany is in kind of a weird spot though because the phrase "From the river to the sea" can be, and is by some, seen as a call for genocide or language that lends support to those who would engage in a genocide of Israelies/Jewish people.

It's really a damned if you do/don't situation. If you allow them, Germany harbors (ever) increasing amounts of people who have anti-semetic views. If you don't allow, them you get to limit the anti-semetic views in Germany, but then you also appear as outright supporting Israel's ongoing actions that many do view as a genocide.

There's no real right move for Germany here.

Maybe because the chant being used after Oct 7 in Arabic was actually From the River to the Sea Palestine will be Arab.

wackyteen posted...

There's no real right move for Germany here.

Don't silence the Palestinian viewpoint in the media. They are covering a war, but acting as though one side's reporting is 100% correct and not giving any airtime to the other side. And by "the other side" I don't mean Hamas, I mean the palestinian innocents

https://twitter.com/leylahamed/status/1841431657150029960

This is like denying anyone who used the term Cis or Woke.

teep_ posted...

https://twitter.com/leylahamed/status/1841431657150029960

Still bullshit, but damn at that being "brutally assaulted." America wishes.

I'm used to seeing cops knee someone in the head when they have them down like that.

teep_ posted...

https://twitter.com/leylahamed/status/1841431657150029960

I kept waiting for the "brutal assault" to happen. You clowns will lie and exaggerate about anything to enhance your viewpoint, actual truth be damned apparently.

Psyloshsr posted...

You clowns will lie and exaggerate about anything to enhance your viewpoint, actual truth be damned apparently.

Who're you talking to exactly?

Psyloshsr posted...

I kept waiting for the "brutal assault" to happen. You clowns will lie and exaggerate about anything to enhance your viewpoint, actual truth be damned apparently.

It shows how numb we've come to police brutality when you can watch the first 20 seconds and think that's nothing.

Ricemills posted...

Ironic since the slogan's origin was most likely originally a Zionist slogan.

Just like woke was originally to fight oppression. The meaning of the phrase can change by those who adopt it.

Dortmund definitely brutally assaulted Celtic that evening.

HighSeraph posted...

Who're you talking to exactly?

The clowns in the room.