Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 431: Concepts of a Plan

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1834650608189554844?t=o1UvXUi-xV-ih21wgIM3aQ&s=19

Sorry but sorry, but this man needs to be removed from this mortal coil.

Lopen posted...

Death, ideally. (Not that we can actually do this)

But you need to be thoroughly sure this is actually their belief before murdering them. That is the concern. It's easy to paint everyone with that hyperbolic brush when a lot are ignorant and a lot just care about different issues than you do. That's the concern, that every republican is labeled this when most don't really care about this "kill them because they're different" thing you're accusing them of

I've never accused them of that being their goal, I said the moderate ones(the ones you are speaking about) are at best complacent with that being an outcome. Which is not okay either.

My point is that PoC, LGBT+, and other vulnerable minorities constantly having to deal with that kind of thing being supported both directly and indirectly by the voters that vote in repugnants that enact or try to enact policies that disenfranchise them, simply because it's the party they support makes they're frustration and discontent more justified than the people voting to support the things that disenfranchise them in the first place.

Personally as a white(not really but I look it so I have to live with it lol) cisgender heterosexual male I know that educating the ignorant on these subjects largely falls on my shoulders because other white cishet males are more likely to not immediately dismiss my opinions on it, and forcing minorities to "be tolerant while they learn" is kind of gross because they shouldn't have to deal with this shit in the first place.

foolm0r0n posted...

That's hilarious since I just learned she's 31 (despite looking 51) so she would've been 8

Learning she's 31 is breaking me. She looks like she's twice that age and has a bunch plastic surgery. And the idea that the shambling corpse of Trump might be hooking up with her is nauseating.

He looks so dead or hungover or something in those clips

LightningStrikes posted...

The good news is, demographics mean that eventually the Republican party will have to change or be destroyed.

I used to think this. But citizens eventually get sick of the people in charge while at the same time forget just how bad the previous administration was, letting them take over again and everything backslides.The follow-up is then again for Democrats to chase the conservative voters lost and pull right.

Grand_Kirby posted...

Learning she's 31 is breaking me. She looks like she's twice that age and has a bunch plastic surgery. And the idea that the shambling corpse of Trump might be hooking up with her is nauseating.

https://bsky.app/profile/gothamgirlblue.com/post/3l3yxrav4fa2x

Grand_Kirby posted...

If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality. - Desmond Tutu

I'm not sure why you quoted me as I completely agree with that.

Grand_Kirby posted...

Learning she's 31 is breaking me. She looks like she's twice that age and has a bunch plastic surgery. And the idea that the shambling corpse of Trump might be hooking up with her is nauseating.

She's younger than me, my wife, and all our friends. We look like god damn teenagers in comparison. I honestly can feel nothing but sadness for her.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

I'm not sure why you quoted me as I completely agree with that.

I was reaffirming the sentiment.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

and forcing minorities to "be tolerant while they learn" is kind of gross because they shouldn't have to deal with this shit in the first place.

Not what I'm saying

I'm saying politics has a lot of facets and calling everyone a bigot or racist because they're not single issue on human rights is dangerous. We all have different living conditions and at some level it's a sign of privilege to think everyone has the luxury to be a bleeding heart about difficulties other groups experience.

I'm not saying it's good I'm just saying that's how the world is. You can't treat everyone who is indirectly siding with an oppressor identically to those who are are directly. The indirect people are those you need to have some patience with.

PeaceFrog posted...

https://bsky.app/profile/gothamgirlblue.com/post/3l3yxrav4fa2x

bluesky mentioned!!!!

Grimlyn posted...

I used to think this. But citizens eventually get sick of the people in charge while at the same time forget just how bad the previous administration was, letting them take over again and everything backslides.The follow-up is then again for Democrats to chase the conservative voters lost and pull right.

And there will always be people who are "other," and people who are (or can be made to be) scared of them.

LightningStrikes posted...

The good news is, demographics mean that eventually the Republican party will have to change or be destroyed. They will eventually need to try and appeal to all the groups they have alienated. The bad news is this is probably a decade from happening at least. And who knows what that change will look like, though if I wanted to get my crystal ball out Id probably say full libertarian.

I would be skeptical of this. "Demographics are destiny" spelling the end of the GOP as it is currently constructed has been a talking point/thought in political discourse since at least 2008 with the Obama coalition.

Hell, following Obama shocking them by winning re-election in 2012 the GOP establishment itself reached this same conclusion and put out in their post-mortem that they had to make inroads with the Hispanic community or they would be relegated to basically a regional party. And then Trump took over the party by opening with "they're rapists." And they won.

In some senses this feels a bit like a Lucy holding the football thing - it keeps appearing that Dems are on the verge of a demographic breakthrough that causes them to be nigh-unbeatable nationally unless the GOP changes course and yet...

Though talking about this is a bit funny because I had the weirdest thought running through my head while trying to sleep about two nights ago about how I might want to write a piece on how the GOP went right off the cliff following the election of Obama and the collapse of the establishment into full surrender to MAGA. Obviously not an original thought by any means, but kind of exploring it a bit blow-by-blow - including Herman Cain basically being a "proto-Trump" in 2012 in many regards. idk maybe if I find myself with the time one of these days.

LightningStrikes posted...

And who knows what that change will look like, though if I wanted to get my crystal ball out Id probably say full libertarian.

Absolutely impossible in the US. It can work in other countries but the US runs on keynesianism, specifically of the corporatist variety. The US is also wildly successful globally, so there's always an undercurrent of "if it ain't broke don't fix it", which does not apply to places like Argentina.

The best libertarians can do is get specific policies mixed into the larger party, which has worked decently throughout the last 100 years.

He is not letting Loomer go..she is going to be staples to him.

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1834656209699586253?t=VxCrZz8Et9YjltVKl11oeQ&s=19

Thorn posted...

I would be skeptical of this. "Demographics are destiny" spelling the end of the GOP as it is currently constructed has been a talking point/thought in political discourse since at least 2008 with the Obama coalition.

Hell, following Obama shocking them by winning re-election in 2012 the GOP establishment itself reached this same conclusion and put out in their post-mortem that they had to make inroads with the Hispanic community or they would be relegated to basically a regional party. And then Trump took over the party by opening with "they're rapists." And they won.

In some senses this feels a bit like a Lucy holding the football thing - it keeps appearing that Dems are on the verge of a demographic breakthrough that causes them to be nigh-unbeatable nationally unless the GOP changes course and yet...

Though talking about this is a bit funny because I had the weirdest thought running through my head while trying to sleep about two nights ago about how I might want to write a piece on how the GOP went right off the cliff following the election of Obama and the collapse of the establishment into full surrender to MAGA. Obviously not an original thought by any means, but kind of exploring it a bit blow-by-blow - including Herman Cain basically being a "proto-Trump" in 2012 in many regards. idk maybe if I find myself with the time one of these days.

To put this another way: if we voted by popular vote it would have been 20 years since we had a republican president in this country

the EC is the only thing keeping republicans relevant

Oh they're definitely shacking up.

OK check that thread because this is actually amazing. Trump expected this golf course conference up to be his breeziest free press event yet, since it was essentially stated as marketing with some hackers in the side, but for the first time in this ENTIRE CAMPAIGN, he is being asked direct questions about his bullshit. Is the media finally done with him??

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1834656693965537304?t=1SJ3uHFQb5aXOJbLrVi9zw&s=19

SirChris posted...

To put this another way: if we voted by popular vote it would have been 20 years since we had a republican president in this country

the EC is the only thing keeping republicans relevant

Unrelated to my "timeline/key moments/reasons of the GOP's descent" thought bouncing in my head - another thing I sometimes think about is the "what-if" alternate history of the 2004 election. Kerry came very close to pulling off the "lose the popular vote, win the EC" there - give him Ohio and it happens, and Ohio was close. Not 2000 Florida close, but still.

If we had back-to-back elections of the popular vote being thwarted by the EC and it affecting both parties... could we have actually seen movement to abolish it?

But that moment came and went and now there's no way the GOP will give up their structural un-small-d-democratic advantage unless some crazy realignment happens.

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1834658694552076517?t=sK0dKS83qij4WyxhkFBBcg&s=19

Thorn posted...

If we had back-to-back elections of the popular vote being thwarted by the EC and it affecting both parties... could we have actually seen movement to abolish it?

Yes. Same with RCV, major adoption will only come when people see it can help them too, not just hurt.

Lopen posted...

I'm saying politics has a lot of facets and calling everyone a bigot or racist because they're not single issue on human rights is dangerous.

"Single issue on human rights" is an incredible combination of words. My brother in Christ, those are multiple issues.

Kenri posted...

"Single issue on human rights" is an incredible combination of words. My brother in Christ, those are multiple issues.

Well I meant any issue in that umbrella. People will label if they are not fully 100% behind any of the multiple issues, which makes it even easier.

Grimlyn posted...

I used to think this. But citizens eventually get sick of the people in charge while at the same time forget just how bad the previous administration was, letting them take over again and everything backslides.The follow-up is then again for Democrats to chase the conservative voters lost and pull right.

You are correct on the point about getting tired of a government, and I think it all depends on who wins this time, and next. If the Republicans are looking at three straight outright losses and six straight popular vote losses (and eight of the last nine) in 2028 theyll eventually get tired of losing. But if they win this time its 50/50 which is a very different situation.

Thorn posted...

I would be skeptical of this. "Demographics are destiny" spelling the end of the GOP as it is currently constructed has been a talking point/thought in political discourse since at least 2008 with the Obama coalition.

Hell, following Obama shocking them by winning re-election in 2012 the GOP establishment itself reached this same conclusion and put out in their post-mortem that they had to make inroads with the Hispanic community or they would be relegated to basically a regional party. And then Trump took over the party by opening with "they're rapists." And they won.

In some senses this feels a bit like a Lucy holding the football thing - it keeps appearing that Dems are on the verge of a demographic breakthrough that causes them to be nigh-unbeatable nationally unless the GOP changes course and yet...

Though talking about this is a bit funny because I had the weirdest thought running through my head while trying to sleep about two nights ago about how I might want to write a piece on how the GOP went right off the cliff following the election of Obama and the collapse of the establishment into full surrender to MAGA. Obviously not an original thought by any means, but kind of exploring it a bit blow-by-blow - including Herman Cain basically being a "proto-Trump" in 2012 in many regards. idk maybe if I find myself with the time one of these days.

Its funny as I was going to mention the 2012 report as a point in my favour! At the end of the day they were handed 2016 on a plate and still squeaked it while losing the popular vote by a comfortable margin. The Republicans got a lower share of the vote in 2016 than in 2012, it was ultimately a Democratic loss rather than a Republican win. And looking where its sent them its quite possible that we will look back on 2016 as the wrong election to win. Had they simply lost it they could have reimagined themselves and come back instead by the end of the next term they might have been in the White House for only four of the last twenty years. Or not, if they win this year that changes everything. None of us have a crystal ball and we dont know what will happen for sure. Im just suggesting one potential outcome, I dont know for sure.

I will say though, looking at the way incumbent governments have fared this year globally the fact that the Republicans are behind is embarrassing. They should be coasting to victory on post-covid global economic conditions and while the result is not yet known, they are behind. In the few cases where a government has won or is ahead, its because the opposition screwed up royally. In Ireland for instance the government is currently set to be re-elected because the opposition has started tearing itself apart in internal strife over immigration policy. In other words, the Republicans should on paper be winning, but are losing because theyre terrible. So if they want to win they will eventually need to look at themselves and ask why they suck so bad.

Trump said he will deport 20,000 legal Haitian immigrants....to Venezuela.

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1834664115618693390?t=NFlwpxhnp6l1oBkX6tLg5g&s=19

That's not deportation, that's human trafficking.

LightningStrikes posted...

And looking where its sent them its quite possible that we will look back on 2016 as the wrong election to win.

Objectively incorrect because of SCOTUS appointments. It could take generations to fix that.

It really was the most consequential election in... a really long time (I understand you can argue 2000 fairly credibly, but I think I'd still put 2016 over it)... on several levels: SCOTUS, political discourse/polarization, the direction of the GOP, I could go on.

Thorn posted...

Objectively incorrect because of SCOTUS appointments. It could take generations to fix that.

It "only" takes control of the executive branch and both chambers of Congress to fix this.

Thorn posted...

Objectively incorrect because of SCOTUS appointments. It could take generations to fix that.

Fair point, I meant more electorally. Still wild to me that the Supreme Court are political appointees.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

That's not deportation, that's human trafficking.

Always has been.

I'd also note that while demographically you'd expect the Sun Belt and eventually Texas to go towards the Dems - the Midwest/Rust Belt is going towards the GOP and I think it might go first. So they might actually see some short term gain with it ultimately settling into a wash. Think a 2040 map something like...

https://www.270towin.com/maps/BrPlv

Now admittedly, if Texas goes reliably blue it becomes a lot harder to figure how you get the GOP to 270 (even giving them IL, ME, and NH runs you short - would need like NC or something on top of that too) but it's not like they're totally knocked out either as long as Texas is contestable.

Xiahou_Shake posted...

It "only" takes control of the executive branch and both chambers of Congress to fix this.

I mean... yes... but I'm not optimistic!

Xiahou_Shake posted...

It "only" takes control of the executive branch and both chambers of Congress to fix this.

It also takes courage and political acumen which might be even harder to get.

I would be shocked if the Republicans won Minnesota reliably in the future. GOP voteshare there has been effectively stagnant there since 2000, whats fluctuated has been how the Democrats do. It hasnt really been trending Republican and had a big swing in 2020 towards the Democrats.

Don't think Minnesota is at risk anytime in the near future, or Wisconsin. pA, a bit more worried, we'll see what happens this year.

I think there's a red mirage in Michigan due Israel, but depending on how things go that could be a problem.

LightningStrikes posted...

I would be shocked if the Republicans won Minnesota reliably in the future. GOP voteshare there has been effectively stagnant there since 2000, whats fluctuated has been how the Democrats do. It hasnt really been trending Republican and had a big swing in 2020 towards the Democrats.

MN is the weird one there but I didn't want to bog down things in a "well, now we have to wonder where population drift happens because if states like NY keep losing EVs MN may be irrelevant in this map" depending on which states gain on the whole etc, etc.

As it stands though, I do kinda agree - using the 2020 census EC allocations MN is the odd one out there where it's easy to say "just turn that blue. boom don't even need texas now"

For reference: 2020 EC (under the 2010 census) -> 2024 EC had the following changes:

+2
Texas

+1
Montana
Florida
North Carolina
Oregon
Colorado

-1
California
Illinois
New York
Micihgan
Pennsylvania
Ohio
West Virginia

2020 Trump States gained 3 on net which actually does affect some paths to victory that would have existed for Dems in 2020 that don't now. Admittedly, if you shuffle the states as I did in that map it actually evens out entirely because flipping MI, PA, and NC eliminates that +3 GOP advantage but still!

I did consider keeping MN blue and then just talking about the whims of reallocation there even though it would be a winning map for Dems under the 2020 allocation... maybe I should have just done that lol.

https://twitter.com/GregTSargent/status/1834639642223604174?t=5NLh-ISAR7A4Pj-JggFtOQ&s=19

Absolutely monstrous and it remains crystal clear that our justice system simply is not equipped to address stochastic terrorism like this and that we need to change it so it does.

Lopen posted...

Not what I'm saying

I'm saying politics has a lot of facets and calling everyone a bigot or racist because they're not single issue on human rights is dangerous. We all have different living conditions and at some level it's a sign of privilege to think everyone has the luxury to be a bleeding heart about difficulties other groups experience.

I'm not saying it's good I'm just saying that's how the world is. You can't treat everyone who is indirectly siding with an oppressor identically to those who are are directly. The indirect people are those you need to have some patience with.

Ultimately it comes down to one simple concept, respect. It's a two-way street and if a person can't respect others enough to not support a party that prioritizes racism, sexisim and bigotry (especially when their other talking points are demontratebly false) they should not nor do they deserve respect. The thing about the golden rule is that when you treat people poorly or enable people to treat others poorly you are telling the world you're okay with being treated poorly, so if that's not the case then you need to actually treat others the way you'd like to be treated.

R-e-s-p-e-c-t!

find out what I-G-C-D!

(thinks about it)

I understand conspiracy theorists better now because Ive checked three different sources and I still refuse to believe Loomer is 31.

This is the greatest bombshell to ever hit this topic series.

Smartest thing Trump has ever said in his life.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/a52b0229.jpg

Suprak_the_Stud posted...

I understand conspiracy theorists better now because Ive checked three different sources and I still refuse to believe Loomer is 31.

If that blows your mind wait until you hear this guy

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/8e18f9d1.jpg

Is 39

The current Prime Minister of Ireland:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/8875eac2.jpg

Hes 37.

Suprak_the_Stud posted...

I understand conspiracy theorists better now because Ive checked three different sources and I still refuse to believe Loomer is 31.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG8d0x1WcAc

Those last 2 seem normal