Board 8 > Board 8's Top 20 SNES Games - The Results

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#20. Street Fighter II (1992)
Total Points: 21
List Appearances: 15
First Place Votes: 0
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/9f9b8cee.jpg

Write-up provided by Lopen
This game and its multiple remakes (my favorite on the SNES is Turbo, I'll sacrifice the new challengers for the speedy gameplay), without exaggeration, created a genre. It laid down a great formula in design, and all 12 of the main cast are iconic characters. There were a lot of things that we take for granted this game just "got"-- like the characters shouting special attack names added a lot of energy. Everyone having their full set of distinct moves including even the normal moves made every character feel very different to use. And then there were just the satisfying crunches of hits and movement that felt good. (And the foundation a bunch of nerdy mechanics like hit boxes, hitting, priority, blah blah)

What I find most telling about SF2's timeless quality is it still sees limited competitive play today. Very few others from this generation do, because most didn't fully understand why SF2 worked so well or were unable to replicate it. The mechanics were just more on point with this game and all other franchises were playing catch up from the start. Truly a legendary game.

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manual tag

Solid start!

#19. Secret of Mana (1993)
Total Points: 22
List Appearances: 11
First Place Votes: 1
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/82872c78.jpg

Write-up provided by tazzyboyishere
I feel like, for a good amount of my life, Secret of Mana was heralded as this somewhat forgotten classic from the SNES era, comparable with the likes of the Final Fantasy games and Chrono Trigger. There was always this mysterious aura surrounding the game, and I could never play it because I was born a generation too late and never owned a SNES. Once I finally got around to playing a number of SNES games, it just kinda fell out of rotation, partly due to the staggering number of games I had never experienced, but also because the narrative feels almost if it has started shifting recently. I feel like I see Secret of Mana receive far more hate than praise these days, which is kind of weird, since I'm not exactly sure what could have spurred such a drastic shift. Perhaps word of mouth had a negative effect, introducing more people and exposing the game's flaws? Regardless, the board is still into it from the looks of it, and it has a lot of really cool pieces to it.

Its important to note, this is not some epic fantasy tale comparable to Final Fantasy VI or Chrono Trigger. It's like, not even close. There isn't much done to develop any of the characters, with numerous important plot beats just being tossed in without context. The dialogue has the same translation issues which are present in a number of these older games. I don't know that it's as detrimental as something like Breath of Fire II, which had a good story get botched by unqualified translators. The game feels like it doesnt have enough story content to fill out its gameplay and level ideas. Theres even a point where you find a random NPC who just tells you to go certain places only to be wrong about you having needed to go there. Secret of Mana is evidently more concerned with it's gameplay than it's storytelling.

The biggest factor which separates Secret of Mana from other games of this era is the diversity in weapons you're able to use. You have eight different weapon types, all of which are meant to feel unique, and each with their own growth potential as far as upgrading maximizing efficacy. I say they're meant to because I don't really think most of them feel any different. Swords, axes, and spears function in the exact same way, and I can't tell much of a difference in any of the ranged weapons. The gloves and whip both feel unique. Once you get to the midpoint of the game, the best way of defeating enemies and bosses is to spam magic attacks.

And in spite of any criticism, can we just continue to appreciate how pretty this game is? This is some of the most beautiful spritework from the era, and the care put into crafting the unique animations for all the characters is wild. I adore Popoi's walk cycle and you get to experience that shit for almost the entire time, so there's no way this game is actually bad. It then gets upped by the flying animation for your dragon, and holy wow that is a satisfying loop. And the music is phenomenal. The songs each have so many layers to them and it honestly doesn't sound like it's coming from a SNES game. Underappreciated YouTuber Nerrel has a video where he goes into depth about why the game looks and sounds so good, so go watch that if you want to learn more about the game and hear a leveled critique from an actual fan.

I started playing this game a few months ago, kind of impulse, and got stuck and stopped. I should get back to it.

I don't think it'd be in my top 20 though.

I'm somewhat confident Secret of Mana will be the only game on this list I haven't played

Also my review said "hitting" which was "hitstun" autocorrected by my dumb phone just so we know. I mean hitting can be a nerdy mechanic too I guess.

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#18. Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kongs Double Trouble! (1996)
Total Points: 28
List Appearances: 19
First Place Votes: 0
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/406fbd2a.jpg

Write-up provided by MacArrowny
It's pretty common consensus that DKC3 is the worst of the trilogy, but I've never agreed with that appraisal. Though I didn't own any of the games as a kid, my cousins did, and I was able to play copious amounts of DKC1 and DKC3, both single and multiplayer. Eventually, I did the same with DKC2 - playing 3 before 2 might've affected my opinions somewhat, but 3 feels like it has a lot more going on. You get one heavy Kong and one light again, but this time it's Dixie instead of Diddy, and her gliding is super fun. The world map is full of little secrets that are fun to unlock, adding a new dimension beyond the basic platforming. I love a good world map in a 2D platformer, and DKC3's is among the best. You'll get little quests where you have to find various tools and fix stuff to proceed, and it adds a little spice to make everything more interesting. Beyond that, the game offers what the other DKC games do, but at its peak. Level design is phenomenal, with levels full of cool secrets to unlock. You can tell the designers really mastered their craft here. The bosses are generally more interesting. There's a great selection of animal companions. The bosses are at their best for the trilogy. All the worlds you explore are creative and interesting, especially the bonus world you can unlock, which has some of my favorite levels. And of course, it's a beautiful game, with some of the best graphics on the platform, along with a spectacular soundtrack (though I admit 2's is a little better). DKC3 is the crowning achievement of a trilogy with no weak entries.

Though my name comes from Secret of Mana, I've soured on it over time. It's still a lot of fun, but learning that the second half of the game has a lot unfinished because it was originally developed for SNES CD system that never happened so a lot of the story beats (Ravnica/Empire stuff, Sage Joch), some of the temples (Luna Temple iirc, maybe Dryad), a lot of the towns, some of the weapon bugs likely would've been fixed and it'd be even more of an incredible game. It's like Wind Waker getting a rush job towards the end and just feeling hollow whenever companies decide to do a remake/remaster and do little-to-nothing to update what was crunched out. Thank god for Trials of Mana.

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Forgot to send a list, so you better not have sucked, B8.

#19. Secret of Mana (1993)
Total Points: 22
List Appearances: 11
First Place Votes: 1

So on one hand, it made the list. On the other, it's at the bottom. I'm going to say that counts as sucking, but props to the one first place vote, who I'm gonna bet was RySenkari if they participated.

Not one mention about Secret of Mana's multi-player mode? The different weapons, the style and music were all great, but having an RPG you could play with a buddy or two was unheard of for its time. That was the real draw to Secret of Mana.

In fact, Secret of Mana's multi-player game play is still surprisingly unique for an RPG. We didn't really see more multi-player rpgs until MMORPGs got popular. Outside of the MMOs, there still aren't too many other co-op RPGs where you can play through the entire story with a friend. For that reason, Secret of Mana still stands out as one of the greatest SNES games to me.

#19. Secret of Mana (1993)
Write-up provided by tazzyboyishere
...so go watch that if you want to learn more about the game and hear a leveled critique from an actual fan.

I would have been happy to do the write-up for Secret of Mana, so here's my quick off-the-cuff version.

I don't declare favorites. I hate when people ask me "what is your favorite XXX?" It's paralyzing. Even if I think of an answer I think might be my favorite, how can I be certain it's my absolute #1? Maybe there's something I'm forgetting. Maybe there are two flavors of ice cream I really like and you're making me try to figure out which one I like more. How does anyone ever possibly decide what is genuinely their favorite anything?

And yet, if you ask me what my favorite game is, I will tell you Secret of Mana.

Is it the best game ever? No. Does it have some issues? Oh, you bet. But did I love the crap out of it as a kid, the way they talk about a toy being "loved" in Toy Story? Absolutely. Secret of Mana was a beautiful, vibrant game, debatably the first game of its kind by blending JRPG mechanics with real-time fighting, and had a musical score that I could not get out of my head 30 years later.

The story is nothing to write home about. It was created in an era when story took a back seat even for RPGs. Other Square SNES titles were starting to change that, but at the time that bar was set by Final Fantasy IV. So just like many other games limited by memory restrictions, SoM's story was very pared down. In fact, the game was originally intended to be far more ambitious, with Square originally developing it for the SNES-CD hardware that never came to fruition. Angry with Nintendo, Square stripped this game down and entire chunks of the late stages of the game never got properly implemented, which is why so much of the second half of the game feels so rushed. The reason Chrono Trigger exists is largely because Secret of Mana was never properly completed, and many of the assets and ideas were transferred over.

But the gameplay experience was where this game thrived, particularly in the graphics and sound department. The art is vibrant, the animations fluid, and the music amazing. They hard-carried a game whose moment-to-moment combat could be incredibly frustrating.

Look, I'll concede this game has issues. Waiting for your meter to 100% to attack again feels abnormal. Your companions get stuck constantly. Attacks miss without explanation. Magic is jank and OP. Leveling magic is awful because the second half of the game is rushed. The Spikey Tiger fight and the werewolf encounter in the forest are atrocious introductions to the game. And I had no idea what was happening in the story beyond "Empire bad, Republic good; get the 8 MacGuffins."

However, when the game wasn't going out of its way to frustrate you, it was incredible. Would it hold up today? Absolutely not. I'm afraid to go back and play it, and smash my rose-tinted glasses. But for someone transitioning to this from Dragon Warrior 1-4, where grinding was the norm and the focus was on making numbers go up? Secret of Mana felt like it was grabbing you by the ear and rushing you along. You could grind, and you could level your weapon skills and wait to acquire the best armor for sale in the area -- which I did -- but it was possible to trudge ahead, too, if you wanted a challenge.

And the world itself was interesting. Non-sensical, but interesting. People traveled by cannon. You got to fly on the back of a white dragon where the view shifted to over the shoulder and you legitimately flew around on the world map. The environments were varied in a way that feels normal or even blase today, but was new to action games in the early 90s.

Perhaps the final item to note because it was an action game was that unlike the JRPGs of the day, when you visited a friend's house, you didn't have to just sit there watching them hit the attack button four times -- you could actually join in on the action. The game supported multiplayer and even 3-player multiplayer if you had a multitap. While I always played the game in single player, this was for many people the defining reason why they loved Secret of Mana -- it allowed them to experience a long sprawling adventure together. How many games long enough to come with battery save systems could say that?

It's a shame that Seiken Densetsu 3 was never brought to the west. It took all the same ideas, finished the full game, expanded on the story with branching narratives and a choice of characters, and improved on a lot of the aspects of Secret that people rag on. Yet, in spite of that, I still enjoy Secret more. I played the fan-translated rom of its sequel, and it never felt as smooth to me. Kikuta's music didn't hit the same highs for me. The amount of time you have to go without healing magic -- a drought that was painful in both games -- extends far longer if you don't pick Carly. The class change system feels clunky for someone who didn't have documentation on how it worked. Even the graphics of the backgrounds and enemy sprites don't feel as well developed to me. I dunno, maybe that's bias speaking. After all, it was being compared against my favorite game.

Let's go dkc3, underrated game, even if I do like it the least.

I wasn't supposed to take the SoM writeup so the writeup is a heavily edited version of a review I wrote for it about a year ago. I was far more critical on it in that, so there are pieces of the game I talked about there that I just deleted since they were negative or didn't make sense with the negative bits trimmed out.

azuarc posted...

I would have been happy to do the write-up for Secret of Mana, so here's my quick off-the-cuff version.

I don't declare favorites. I hate when people ask me "what is your favorite XXX?" It's paralyzing. Even if I think of an answer I think might be my favorite, how can I be certain it's my absolute #1? Maybe there's something I'm forgetting. Maybe there are two flavors of ice cream I really like and you're making me try to figure out which one I like more. How does anyone ever possibly decide what is genuinely their favorite anything?

And yet, if you ask me what my favorite game is, I will tell you Secret of Mana.

Is it the best game ever? No. Does it have some issues? Oh, you bet. But did I love the crap out of it as a kid, the way they talk about a toy being "loved" in Toy Story? Absolutely. Secret of Mana was a beautiful, vibrant game, debatably the first game of its kind by blending JRPG mechanics with real-time fighting, and had a musical score that I could not get out of my head 30 years later.

The story is nothing to write home about. It was created in an era when story took a back seat even for RPGs. Other Square SNES titles were starting to change that, but at the time that bar was set by Final Fantasy IV. So just like many other games limited by memory restrictions, SoM's story was very pared down. In fact, the game was originally intended to be far more ambitious, with Square originally developing it for the SNES-CD hardware that never came to fruition. Angry with Nintendo, Square stripped this game down and entire chunks of the late stages of the game never got properly implemented, which is why so much of the second half of the game feels so rushed. The reason Chrono Trigger exists is largely because Secret of Mana was never properly completed, and many of the assets and ideas were transferred over.

But the gameplay experience was where this game thrived, particularly in the graphics and sound department. The art is vibrant, the animations fluid, and the music amazing. They hard-carried a game whose moment-to-moment combat could be incredibly frustrating.

Look, I'll concede this game has issues. Waiting for your meter to 100% to attack again feels abnormal. Your companions get stuck constantly. Attacks miss without explanation. Magic is jank and OP. Leveling magic is awful because the second half of the game is rushed. The Spikey Tiger fight and the werewolf encounter in the forest are atrocious introductions to the game. And I had no idea what was happening in the story beyond "Empire bad, Republic good; get the 8 MacGuffins."

However, when the game wasn't going out of its way to frustrate you, it was incredible. Would it hold up today? Absolutely not. I'm afraid to go back and play it, and smash my rose-tinted glasses. But for someone transitioning to this from Dragon Warrior 1-4, where grinding was the norm and the focus was on making numbers go up? Secret of Mana felt like it was grabbing you by the ear and rushing you along. You could grind, and you could level your weapon skills and wait to acquire the best armor for sale in the area -- which I did -- but it was possible to trudge ahead, too, if you wanted a challenge.

And the world itself was interesting. Non-sensical, but interesting. People traveled by cannon. You got to fly on the back of a white dragon where the view shifted to over the shoulder and you legitimately flew around on the world map. The environments were varied in a way that feels normal or even blase today, but was new to action games in the early 90s.

Perhaps the final item to note because it was an action game was that unlike the JRPGs of the day, when you visited a friend's house, you didn't have to just sit there watching them hit the attack button four times -- you could actually join in on the action. The game supported multiplayer and even 3-player multiplayer if you had a multitap. While I always played the game in single player, this was for many people the defining reason why they loved Secret of Mana -- it allowed them to experience a long sprawling adventure together. How many games long enough to come with battery save systems could say that?

It's a shame that Seiken Densetsu 3 was never brought to the west. It took all the same ideas, finished the full game, expanded on the story with branching narratives and a choice of characters, and improved on a lot of the aspects of Secret that people rag on. Yet, in spite of that, I still enjoy Secret more. I played the fan-translated rom of its sequel, and it never felt as smooth to me. Kikuta's music didn't hit the same highs for me. The amount of time you have to go without healing magic -- a drought that was painful in both games -- extends far longer if you don't pick Carly. The class change system feels clunky for someone who didn't have documentation on how it worked. Even the graphics of the backgrounds and enemy sprites don't feel as well developed to me. I dunno, maybe that's bias speaking. After all, it was being compared against my favorite game.

Care if I use this on the total stats sheet for the writeup?

Tag

Be my guest. I didn't even realize there was somewhere else these would be recorded.

#19. Secret of Mana (1993)
Total Points: 22
List Appearances: 11
First Place Votes: 1
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/86c960f1.jpg

Write-up provided by azuarc
I don't declare favorites. I hate when people ask me "what is your favorite XXX?" It's paralyzing. Even if I think of an answer I think might be my favorite, how can I be certain it's my absolute #1? Maybe there's something I'm forgetting. Maybe there are two flavors of ice cream I really like and you're making me try to figure out which one I like more. How does anyone ever possibly decide what is genuinely their favorite anything?

And yet, if you ask me what my favorite game is, I will tell you Secret of Mana.

Is it the best game ever? No. Does it have some issues? Oh, you bet. But did I love the crap out of it as a kid, the way they talk about a toy being "loved" in Toy Story? Absolutely. Secret of Mana was a beautiful, vibrant game, debatably the first game of its kind by blending JRPG mechanics with real-time fighting, and had a musical score that I could not get out of my head 30 years later.

The story is nothing to write home about. It was created in an era when story took a back seat even for RPGs. Other Square SNES titles were starting to change that, but at the time that bar was set by Final Fantasy IV. So just like many other games limited by memory restrictions, SoM's story was very pared down. In fact, the game was originally intended to be far more ambitious, with Square originally developing it for the SNES-CD hardware that never came to fruition. Angry with Nintendo, Square stripped this game down and entire chunks of the late stages of the game never got properly implemented, which is why so much of the second half of the game feels so rushed. The reason Chrono Trigger exists is largely because Secret of Mana was never properly completed, and many of the assets and ideas were transferred over.

But the gameplay experience was where this game thrived, particularly in the graphics and sound department. The art is vibrant, the animations fluid, and the music amazing. They hard-carried a game whose moment-to-moment combat could be incredibly frustrating.

Look, I'll concede this game has issues. Waiting for your meter to 100% to attack again feels abnormal. Your companions get stuck constantly. Attacks miss without explanation. Magic is jank and OP. Leveling magic is awful because the second half of the game is rushed. The Spikey Tiger fight and the werewolf encounter in the forest are atrocious introductions to the game. And I had no idea what was happening in the story beyond "Empire bad, Republic good; get the 8 MacGuffins."

However, when the game wasn't going out of its way to frustrate you, it was incredible. Would it hold up today? Absolutely not. I'm afraid to go back and play it, and smash my rose-tinted glasses. But for someone transitioning to this from Dragon Warrior 1-4, where grinding was the norm and the focus was on making numbers go up? Secret of Mana felt like it was grabbing you by the ear and rushing you along. You could grind, and you could level your weapon skills and wait to acquire the best armor for sale in the area -- which I did -- but it was possible to trudge ahead, too, if you wanted a challenge.

And the world itself was interesting. Non-sensical, but interesting. People traveled by cannon. You got to fly on the back of a white dragon where the view shifted to over the shoulder and you legitimately flew around on the world map. The environments were varied in a way that feels normal or even blase today, but was new to action games in the early 90s.

Perhaps the final item to note because it was an action game was that unlike the JRPGs of the day, when you visited a friend's house, you didn't have to just sit there watching them hit the attack button four times -- you could actually join in on the action. The game supported multiplayer and even 3-player multiplayer if you had a multitap. While I always played the game in single player, this was for many people the defining reason why they loved Secret of Mana -- it allowed them to experience a long sprawling adventure together. How many games long enough to come with battery save systems could say that?

It's a shame that Seiken Densetsu 3 was never brought to the west. It took all the same ideas, finished the full game, expanded on the story with branching narratives and a choice of characters, and improved on a lot of the aspects of Secret that people rag on. Yet, in spite of that, I still enjoy Secret more. I played the fan-translated rom of its sequel, and it never felt as smooth to me. Kikuta's music didn't hit the same highs for me. The amount of time you have to go without healing magic -- a drought that was painful in both games -- extends far longer if you don't pick Carly. The class change system feels clunky for someone who didn't have documentation on how it worked. Even the graphics of the backgrounds and enemy sprites don't feel as well developed to me. I dunno, maybe that's bias speaking. After all, it was being compared against my favorite game.

#17. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles IV: Turtles in Time (1992)
Total Points: 29
List Appearances: 19
First Place Votes: 1
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/1/1d07217f.jpg

Write-up provided by Lopen
Turtles in Time continues the beat em up formula established on the NES with the second and third games and doesn't drop the ball, ending up being a totally radical game in its own right.

You start the game going to beat up Shredder because Krang tried to take the Statue of Liberty from the Big Apple at precisely 3am, but then in a shocker twist Shredder launches the Turtles back in time to get rid of them and they must battle to get back to present day. Personally I'm not a big fan of the gimmicky aesthetic but it's a fun experiment. More importantly, the gameplay is still as solid as ever, and this port manages to capture a lot of the chaotic brawling feel that the arcade has despite being limited to 2 players (real shame you couldn't use the multitap on this one).

The big draw of this one over the NES games for me is the two throw moves. Throwing foot soldiers into the screen is a fun effect, and for me whipping them around into other foot soldiers and hitting as many other enemies as you can as you slam them back and forth is very satisfying. It also gives you more points to do this and as someone who likes bigger numbers this gives even more incentive to slam em.

Beat em ups are all overrated.

Granted, I didn't have video gaming friends until I was older.

Bury My Shell at Wounded Knee is legit one of the most unhinged level names I can imagine. I don't know how to feel about it.

Didn't care much about the game itself.

tazzyboyishere posted...

Bury My Shell at Wounded Knee

What the actual hell

Beat em ups are underrated imo. Double Dragon is legendary and gets no props.

I didn't vote Turtles In Time but I do quite like it which is why I felt fine sending a write up for it (I do prefer the NES games though)

wallmasterz posted...

What the actual hell

https://youtu.be/Pu-F_OiPn1g?si=9NvAKZP9bzRyR99R

#16. Mega Man X2 (1994)
Total Points: 31
List Appearances: 17
First Place Votes: 0
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/f728b0eb.jpg

Write-up provided by tazzyboyishere
Its pretty common for the Mega Man X franchise to be looked down upon for its later entries, at least from what Ive seen. I dont think its unreasonable, since Mega Man X5 and on are genuinely messy at best, infuriating at worst. But the first four titles were some good shit. Mega Man X2 tends to get lost in the shadow of two of its brothers (X1 and X4), but it continues the trend of Capcom pushing out banger platformers during the 80s and 90s. While I do prefer X, X2 did a phenomenal job of expanding on the exploration and steady growth in strength which made the first game stand out. It found a great balance of action and exploration which I dont personally feel the franchise ever managed to get right again.

Im not sure what the general reception among the fanbase is on stage superiority (Im more of a classic MM guy), but I have very fond memories of Flame Stag and Morph Moths stages. I dont remember disliking any of the stages, but it has been a while since I played. I do think the Reploid naming scheme was already showing some wear here, with Wire Sponge being one of those names I thought was incredibly dumb years ago (Further X and Zero games would eventually become iconically bad, so Wire Sponge isnt anywhere close to the dumbest). The music isnt nearly as good as its predecessor either, which was going to be close to impossible to match regardless. There are still a number of bangers like Bubble Crab and Flame Stag.

I dont recall much of the story, but I do remember finding it cool how you could change pieces of it through taking on optional bosses. Not very many platformers were experimenting with their story progression in this method at the time, so its definitely a neat thing to witness in a Mega Man game, even if the X series in particular would eventually struggle with its overall plot in the grand scheme of things. The simplicity of these earlier titles made for really exciting storytelling the franchise had never seen before, and the Zero games would deliver in the ways later X games werent able to. As I said, been a bit since I played this one, but it is a wonderful experience which succeeds its predecessor in just as many areas as it loses some of that initial charm.

#15. Panel de Pon/Tetris Attack (1995)
Total Points: 42
List Appearances: 19
First Place Votes: 0
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/7eaf77eb.jpg

Write-up provided by tazzyboyishere
I fell in love with Tetris about 5-6 years ago, and wrote a little bit about the impact it left on me in the GB/GBC ranking topic. Shortly after, I fell in love with a game called Lumines for pretty similar reasons (I doubt that makes one of these lists, but I will definitely have dibs if it does). I became pretty invested in the basic concept of arranging blocks in efficient ways, with an increasingly higher need for focus and precision as you went on. Panel de Pon felt like a natural progression of this new passion. Id heard of Panel de Pon prior to its release on Nintendo Switch Online, but only because of a Smash Bros. item. I went through a phase of what was almost certainly depression, where I tried to play through every NSO game. That goal died the moment I played Panel de Pon. They didnt bother translating it, so I have no clue why I was doing any of this, but I proceeded to invest about 50-60 hours into this puzzler in the course of about 3 weeks.

Ive never played a translated version of Panel de Pon specifically (I did peruse Tetris Attack, which is just an aesthetic change, one which I dont like as much as the corny anime magical girl aesthetic), so I couldnt tell you the story, but from what I can gather, youre a magical girl trying to defeat a dark wizard who is, and this is just an assumption, trying to take over the world. Ive watched anime before, thank you. Lip, the main character, does this by swapping tiles horizontally to put 3 or more in a row, as a wall of said tiles creeps toward the top of the screen. You spend most of the story mode battling other magical girls, so idk why that is. Probably proving your worth or something. I didnt actually find the story mode until a while into my play, since again, Nintendo didnt fucking translate it. I spent most of my time playing the endless mode, which was less a game about battling evil and more a game about vibing to chill characters listening to chill music while you give your brain a light workout (This scene in particular is fucking iconic because I spent about 40 of those hours here, listening to this incredible song while that amazing animation of the bird lifting the girls ponytail plays off to the side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByEsc--bPA8

I never did get very good at it, I couldnt beat the story mode without abusing the hell out of rewind. Its not quite as accessible as the aforementioned Tetris and Lumines. I could definitely get far in those if I picked them up right now. I played a bit of Panel de Pon before writing this, and woof, I did pretty bad. Pattern memorization is both incredibly important and incredibly hard to do in the context of Panel de Pon, at least for me. I think Ill likely not return to it much over the years, but it was there for a period that apparently really needed it.

As for Tetris Attack, Id heard of it long before Panel de Pon, but all I could really say about it is that I remember people saying its not like Tetris at all. While I understand this sentiment, I do disagree. Sure theyre fairly different in gameplay, but they do evoke the same feelings, at least to me. I didnt spend much time with it, as I prefer the unique aesthetic, no offense to Yoshi. Also, apparently these games have a versus mode, but I legit never touched those lmao. This game is so good.

Ohh, shellshock

beat em ups and now puzzle games!

this should be just be 20 platformers

pjbasis posted...

beat em ups and now puzzle games!

this should be just be 20 platformers

I believe you confused the SNES with the original.

pjbasis posted...

beat em ups and now puzzle games!

this should be just be 20 platformers

what are the 20 great snes platformers?

panepon's multiplayer is in the running for the greatest in any competitive puzzle games imo (granted, it actually peaks in the sequel on gc)

MacArrowny posted...

what are the 20 great snes platformers?

tbh my foray into the snes hasn't really progressed past the days of being kid, with just some of the most played nintendo games or rpgs since then. I haven't really explored the library as thoroughly as the NES.

DKC3 is good up until the last couple levels, which aren't very well designed imo

it's still a lot better than 2 but 1 is my favorite

also I agree beat em ups are overrated, but I did like Double Dragon as a kid

tazzyboyishere posted...

all I could really say about it is that I remember people saying its not like Tetris at all.

I'm one of these people. Huge Tetris Attack fan, don't care about Tetris.

tazzyboyishere posted...

apparently these games have a versus mode, but I legit never touched those lmao

This honestly might explain why you feel differently

The game has a totally different vibe in versus mode and is the main draw of the game I feel

#14. Final Fantasy IV (1991)
Total Points: 43
List Appearances: 25
First Place Votes: 1
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Write-up provided by tazzyboyishere
Final Fantasy IV is the first step away from the sort of gameplay nuances present in the previous games. Characters here have predetermined classes with predetermined growth, and there is little the player can do to change these variables. This would feel problematic if it weren't for some of the benefits we see regarding this more streamlined choice. The decision to have characters set into specific roles was made so that the narrative could flow more smoothly. Final Fantasy IV is the first game in the series to really dive deep into it's narrative structure and the result is a lovely quest filled with memorable beats. It does have many flaws, such as the over-reliance of death fakeouts, and the use of mind control as a plot device for at least three major twists, but I can forgive the corniness of this given how engaging all the characters are. Each of them have a fun personality, and despite how generic they are on the whole, the purity of their archetypes make them all quite likeable. The party is constantly shifting it's members around to allow the gameplay to fluctuate in fairly natural and engaging ways, and it culminates in a well-balanced group to finish out the final segment of dungeons. It's not as hard as many of it's contemporaries, but it's a nifty bit of challenge to bring to the table. This added challenge is due in part to the ATB system which forgoes the typical turn-based structure in favor of something far more hectic and engaging. I love a lot of the changes Final Fantasy IV made to the structure of these games, and it's evident most others did as well, as this is one of the most referenced entries among the fanbase. Despite some holes in it's design, it is still a classic experience which was hard to top in 1991.

#13. Final Fantasy V (1992)
Total Points: 46
List Appearances: 21
First Place Votes: 1
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Write-up provided by Bitto
FFV took a bit to get to its currently held status. It was only in Japan for a long time and, even when released to the US, it was considered a bit of a black sheep for its focus on gameplay in a story-driven series. The Four Job Fiesta, which started around 2011 and has been an annual event since then, has largely changed this perception. Final Fantasy V focuses on a job system and is still arguably the best job-swapping RPG out there. There are 21 jobs to choose from, each giving a set of weapons, passives, and actives. Leveling up lets you permanently get a skill. This allows for creating broken skill combinations by the end of the game. It's only appropriate that FFV is the first Final Fantasy to properly introduce optional superbosses in the series with Omega and Shinryu.

While I have only done Four Job Fiesta for two years, it's easy to see the appeal. You receive four jobs to use for the entire game. As a result, you explore the nuances of these four jobs and there's a lot to find in each run, as you can cheese the bosses in a lot of unexpected ways. What's especially nice is that the final boss is immune to most cheesing strategies, creating a great challenge to cap off the game.

FFV's story isn't as held up as the other FF games, but I've always really liked it. The characters are all fun, with Gilgamesh being the highlight. I'm surprised that so many modern games with job swapping use generic models with a head swap when FFV hit the gold standard by every character having a unique design for every job, with Dancer being the clear highlight. Despite the lighthearted tone, it doesn't pull punches on the emotional moments, with one moment in particularly being one of the best in the series. Exdeath is an absurd villain, but he's certainly memorable and I appreciate the game poking fun at him. The pacing is really strong. Act 1 lets you discover all the jobs and Act 2 lets you play with the jobs and start combining them. Act 3 is largely optional with a mandatory boss rush, requiring you to be set in your skill selection. The bosses are mostly well-designed too, with a few still being really memorable to me, like Liquid Flame, Archeoaevis, Atomos, the Guardian Crystals, Minotaur/Omniscient, and Neo Exdeath.

tazzyboyishere posted...

Krang tried to take the Statue of Liberty from the Big Apple at precisely 3am

Lol yep

tazzyboyishere posted...

Throwing foot soldiers into the screen is a fun effect, and for me whipping them around into other foot soldiers and hitting as many other enemies as you can as you slam them back and forth is very satisfying

It really is.

I still prefer the arcade version of Turtles in Time of course, but overall the SNES version is a far better port than TMNT2: The Arcade Game for NES.

And yes Bury My Shell at Wounded Knee is a classic level name, 2nd only to

Big Apple [at precisely] 3am

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pjbasis posted...

Beat em ups are all overrated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McAeQiLmEYU

I'm so glad to see Mega Man X2 make the list. I played that game into the ground when I was a kid.

Hope I did you proud jc for stealing your write up.

And yeah I think it's a better port in terms of feeling like the arcade game than TMNT2 Nes but there's just something about the difficulty and levels in TMNT2 Nes I really like.

I appreciate you stepping in! Real life has been kicking my ass lately!

TMNT2 for NES is definitely still a cool game in its own right - the snow level is a really cool addition - but just comparing it straight-up to TMNT Arcade......oof. Plus I've made very clear that I feel TMNT3 is much better

Boo FFIV is better than FFV! </opinon>

I've actually written some reviews on Backloggd for some of these (Also add me on Backloggd if you have it!)

Secret of Mana:
https://www.backloggd.com/u/RoboQuote/review/474305/

Final Fantasy V:
https://www.backloggd.com/u/RoboQuote/review/415660/

And my FF4 writeup was pulled straight from my profile too. I don't have much to say about SF2 or TMNT4. Both are in genres I don't typically care for, but they seem good in spite of me not giving them much time. I really enjoyed DKC3, though not as much as 1 or 2. I do think it's overhated, but I think that stigma against it has lessened over the years, which is a good thing, since DKC is a rare franchise with no misses.

V > IV good job b8

I have a guess for top 12 having not looked at point whatsoever but I feel like big things are gonna miss the cut.