Current Events > Stephen A Smith says Ash Ketchum is OVERRATED

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://twitter.com/stephenasmith/status/1794166653900701699

Who is the blue checkmark and why should i care

He's not wrong. Ash is a world class choker.

more like ass ketchum

Ash Ketchum is the WORST Pokemon trainer of ALL TIME

Today I learned that Ash is 35 years old

Ash actually has three championships

https://twitter.com/PelicansNBA/status/1761072169264554283

His first cousin once removed, Jack Ketchum, wrote some disturbing novels. No one ever asks him about that.

electricbugs2 posted...

Ash actually has three championships

orange islands

battle frontier

alola

world

he has 4 champion ships

He can't even properly say the name of Mewtwo, I don't trust his assessments of Pokemon.

AceMos posted...

orange islands

battle frontier

alola

world

he has 4 champion ships

Yeah, but nobody cares about Orange Islands

Battle Frontier isn't a normal championship

Alola literally doesn't even have gyms

So World is his only legit championship.

And, frankly, let's be honest. Leon only did the job because it was best for business. He would've won if he went all out. He gave Ash a handicap.

StealThisSheen posted...

Yeah, but nobody cares about Orange Islands

Battle Frontier isn't a normal championship

Alola literally doesn't even have gyms

So World is his only legit championship.

And, frankly, let's be honest. Leon only did the job because it was best for business. He would've won if he went all out. He gave Ash a handicap.

leon is a garbage trainer

he is the jiren of pokemon he has nothing going for him beyond empty hype

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

ash was still 10 by the end

AceMos posted...

leon is a garbage trainer

he is the jiren of pokemon he has nothing going for him beyond empty hype

Hey, that doesn't change the fact that he basically let Ash win.

Also, to be fair, there's actual logic to Leon being strong.

Galar is the region that most treats Pokemon battling as a legitimate national sport, where battles against the champion basically happen all the time, and so Leon, above anybody, has reason to train to be strong, since he literally has to defend his spot constantly, unlike other champions who are implied to not actually face many challengers.

From a championship perspective, Ash is overrated. His off-court accomplishments are legendary however

But could Mewtwo defeat LeBron James in a game of 21?

https://youtube.com/shorts/BtSqvVWEsC0?si=VtA9OmqIE62huygj

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

no hei s not a pokemon master

being a champion has nothingto do with that goal

Ash is like the Connor McGregor of Pokemon. He loses way too often to be any considered an actual GOAT, but his personality and charisma got us to cheer for him above trainers that were leagues above him in talent and skill.

God_of_6strings posted...

Ash is like the Connor McGregor of Pokemon. He loses way too often to be any considered an actual GOAT, but his personality and charisma got us to cheer for him above trainers that were leagues above him in talent and skill.

who?

AceMos posted...

orange islands

battle frontier

alola

world

he has 4 champion ships

1 title and just a bunch of mickey mouse rings is still just 1 chip

The rules of the world tournament were that you could only use one gimmick.

Leon let Ash use all three (Mega, Z-Move, Gigantamax), while he, himself, only used one.

That's like Lebron playing somebody and agreeing to only shooting 3-pointers, while his opponent can shoot anywhere.

I was never aware anybody actually cared about Ash beyond nostalgia. He was always a bit of a loser and wanting him to win was just the same empathic pity people feel when they want Charlie Brown to kick the football or for the Rabbit to get some Trix.

StealThisSheen posted...

Hey, that doesn't change the fact that he basically let Ash win.

Also, to be fair, there's actual logic to Leon being strong.

Galar is the region that most treats Pokemon battling as a legitimate national sport, where battles against the champion basically happen all the time, and so Leon, above anybody, has reason to train to be strong, since he literally has to defend his spot constantly, unlike other champions who are implied to not actually face many challengers.

Galar also gatekeeps who gets to participate, unless were assuming things like Leon recommending a relative nobody is common. And depending on how canon certain things are, the other champions are actively training and at points even competed against each other.

Also the anime handling of the World Coronation Series was weird even disregarding the final bit with Ash vs. Leon.

Fenrir_Howls posted...

Galar also gatekeeps who gets to participate, unless were assuming things like Leon recommending a relative nobody is common. And depending on how canon certain things are, the other champions are actively training and at points even competed against each other.

Also the anime handling of the World Coronation Series was weird even disregarding the final bit with Ash vs. Leon.

cynthia really should have been the world champion to be honest she had been built up for it since sinnoh

but no instead we got leon a character no one gives a shit about

but oh wait he has panderzard as his ace mon

yea and it sucks that he does

The entire ending should have been a fever dream, and Ash wakes up to get his ass kicked by Cynthia.

Compsognathus posted...

He's not wrong. Ash is a world class choker.

You guys don't know Pokemon going around here disrespecting the Battle Frontier. That's more difficult and important to win than any of the championships.

God_of_6strings posted...

Ash is like the Connor McGregor of Pokemon. He loses way too often to be any considered an actual GOAT, but his personality and charisma got us to cheer for him above trainers that were leagues above him in talent and skill.

Is Ash also a violently unhinged piece of shit?

Kim_Seong-a posted...

I was never aware anybody actually cared about Ash beyond nostalgia. He was always a bit of a loser and wanting him to win was just the same empathic pity people feel when they want Charlie Brown to kick the football or for the Rabbit to get some Trix.

Plenty of people that continued watching did genuinely care. Its the reason why a number of people were disappointed Alola was his first official League win since the whole thing was so damn lackluster.

That's a way better opinion than his sports opinions.

Fenrir_Howls posted...

Galar also gatekeeps who gets to participate, unless were assuming things like Leon recommending a relative nobody is common

I don't think it really gatekeeps, considering how many people you see actively competing every time you're at a gym. Leon didn't need to recommend the trainer for them to compete, it was basically just a "special honor" kind of thing that didn't actually mean anything when it came to actually competing. It was basically just Leon endorsing them.

While it's possible other champions do train against each other, the only one we actually see battling with any consistency is Leon, since even in the game we see him defend his championship against Raihan, and the dialogue suggests that kind of thing is a very common occurrence, which makes sense. Galar treats its Pokemon League champion more like a wrestling or boxing champion, whereas the others tend to be treated more as training off on their own and rarely battling anybody.

I'm not saying it's like, a runaway, and Leon is definitely strongest, I'm just saying there's actual logical reasoning that can be applied to it.

EDIT: Looking into it a bit further, Bulbapedia says endorsement from the champ/Rose/etc. guaranteed the trainer qualified, but it wasn't the only way to be eligible, it just let them skip the eligibility steps. So I guess it did "gatekeep" a bit in that manner, but that's basically like any sport, so it fits with how Galar did things in general, and there was clearly no shortage of competitors.

Cig Mustum

Cinder Mayum

StealThisSheen posted...

While it's possible other champions do train against each other, the only one we actually see battling with any consistency is Leon, since even in the game we see him defend his championship against Raihan, and the dialogue suggests that kind of thing is a very common occurrence, which makes sense. Galar treats its Pokemon League champion more like a wrestling or boxing champion, whereas the others tend to be treated more as training off on their own and rarely battling anybody.

Because of the overbearing focus the story put on Leon being the unbeatable champion, but with said not sure why youre assuming the bolded simply since the other regions arent treating battling as a spectator sport. Off the top of my head, HGSS has Lance training/battling with Claire and the Cynthia jump scare in Gen 5. Pretty sure there are other examples of trainer like GLs and E4 members training and battling each other from Gen 4 onwards.

Note that is even weirder with the anime where this doesnt really work as an explanation despite toting Leon as the strongest in the world (bonus points for the fact Cynthias whole plot line suggested she never faced Leon).

Edit: Also, I think a personal wrinkle to the Galar hyping is that battle prowess isnt so simple. Gen 9 is give us what might be potentially be the laxest region when it comes to battles and gives us Nemona whos depicted as above even competitively trained students of Blueberry Academy. The emphasis on Galars sports focused style of doing things doesnt necessarily mean that translates into the quality of their trainers being better.

Fenrir_Howls posted...

the Cynthia jump scare in Gen 5

pretty sure she's literally on vacation there, but yeah fair with the Lance one

(also the cynthia retirement plotline was dumb last minute drama and you can remove it entirely without anything at all changing)

Fenrir_Howls posted...

Because of the overbearing focus the story put on Leon being the unbeatable champion, but with said not sure why youre assuming the bolded simply since the other regions arent treating battling as a spectator sport. Off the top of my head, HGSS has Lance training/battling with Claire and the Cynthia jump scare in Gen 5. Pretty sure there are other examples of trainer like GLs and E4 members training and battling each other from Gen 4 onwards.

Note that is even weirder with the anime where this doesnt really work as an explanation despite toting Leon as the strongest in the world (bonus points for the fact Cynthias whole plot line suggested she never faced Leon).

Edit: Also, I think a personal wrinkle to the Galar hyping is that battle prowess isnt so simple. Gen 9 is give us what might be potentially be the laxest region when it comes to battles and gives us Nemona whos depicted as above even competitively trained students of Blueberry Academy. The emphasis on Galars sports focused style of doing things doesnt necessarily mean that translates into the quality of their trainers being better.

Fair point on the Lance thing, yeah.

I still think it works since the suggestion is that Leon faces the largest variety of trainers, by far, and they're not even just training battles, since it's people literally trying to take his championship from him.

Again, I'm not saying Leon like, HAS to be the strongest. I'm just saying you can make sense of it, since... A region that treats Pokemon battling like an actual sport, where the champion is routinely and consistently defending his championship, can make sense for that champion becoming very, very great at battling.

I guess my point is that Leon being so strong doesn't NOT make sense. People don't have to agree with it, but there's nothing like, inherently "No, this doesn't work" about it, at the least.

mehmeh1 posted...

pretty sure she's literally on vacation there, but yeah fair with the Lance one

(also the cynthia retirement plotline was dumb last minute drama and you can remove it entirely without anything at all changing)

My point was Cynthia jumped at shot of facing a strong trainer (who would be Champion at the time), so its not clear to say they rarely battle.

Fenrir_Howls posted...

My point was Cynthia jumped at shot of facing a strong trainer (who would be Champion at the time), so its not clear to say they rarely battle.

Yeah, fair enough. I shouldn't have said "rarely." My point was that there's no indication that they battle as often as Leon does, since the indication is heavily that Leon battles like, all the time.

Diantha vs. Lance falls into the camp of makes sense on paper, sucks in execution for me. The anime wanted to emphasize Diantha being strategic, but ends up making Lance look like an idiot for trying brute his way through the battle. The Hyper Beam thing was something myself and others called out precisely because it was something he dealt with when facing Leon.

Yeah, I'm not really defending the execution. I'm not really defending the execution anywhere, honestly. My argument comes from the "on paper" side of things. On paper, Diantha beating Lance can make sense. On paper, Leon being so strong can make sense. Etc. and so on. The anime... Didn't execute much of it the best, honestly.

Diantha vs Lance felt funny because in a meta way it was a fight to decide who'd get clowned on the most by the fans since it was gonna be their last big moment in the franchise for a long time. It was "laughably easy champion" vs "doomed to be the fakeout final boss". Then again Lance got lucky that main game Geeta's team sucked so much that the fanbase had someone else to laugh at.

either way the M8 was really underwhelming aside from Ash vs Leon

mehmeh1 posted...

Diantha vs Lance felt funny because in a meta way it was a fight to decide who'd get clowned on the most by the fans since it was gonna be their last big moment in the franchise for a long time. It was "laughably easy champion" vs "doomed to be the fakeout final boss". Then again Lance got lucky that main game Geeta's team sucked so much that the fanbase had someone else to laugh at.

Not even sure how much Lance was clowned on even before Geeta. And Diantha still ended up being pitied by the fandom after her match with Leon. No one was expecting her to win, but, DAMN.

I also do gotta admit that I'm kinda biased toward liking Leon. Not even the character (I'm honestly kinda so sick of Charizard, I wish he didn't have Charizard), but the concept. I, honestly, wish the Galar style had happened much sooner. From the very first episode of the anime, when Ash was watching a battle on TV, I was hoping they'd present battling more as a national sport, so the fact that they never really did until Galar made me just love how Galar did it so much more.

1 championship in 25 years but aged 0 years in 25 years

This is like calling an immortal god overrated