Board 8 > Community Mafia Topic 13 - Ethics of Appealing to Emotion

(+) Yeah! (+)

TotallyNotMI posted...

I've been targeted twice before last night that weren't blocked

But I thought Blade was blocked by Corrik?

Leafeon13N posted...

How much do we trust ctes, role meta aside?

I can't recall anything particularly egregious that he's said or done. I think he made some really good posts on day 1 regarding Knightz that helped secure that lynch, but that was overall a group effort so it's hard to know if it wasn't just scummate piling on.

What do you get back anyway FD. some variant of "action successful"?

Sorry if this was answered before innocuous thing i am curious about.

I am decently trusting of ctes

Leafeon13N posted...

What do you get back anyway FD. some variant of "action successful"?

Yes, I just get told my action was successful.

I think i may trust ctes.

Though there is a piece of the puzzle here that doesn't add up.

i trust him more than death but that trust may be revoked if he has a horrible claim

fd can you repost your spreadsheet

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/1/17700f32.png

For night actions I think we're still missing Ben and Blade and still waiting to find out if ctes can finally vote.

And still missing scum/town lists from several

Not much happened during the days though so I'm probably gonna delete those columns moving forward. Sheet's getting too squahed.

I think we know Ben neighbored Kirby, didn't they say that?

TotallyNotMI posted...

I think we know Ben neighbored Kirby, didn't they say that?

Yup, overlooked that post.

Maybe Ben is responsible for Kirby making the reckless play instead of the safe one?

TotallyNotMI posted...

I think we know Ben neighbored Kirby, didn't they say that?

Oh we misplayed everything didn't we...

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Yup, overlooked that post.

Maybe Ben is responsible for Kirby making the reckless play instead of the safe one?

No way, firstly, at the start of day Kirby told me just in case that he was not going to tell me who he's targeting just in case, and instead leave a message at 4:59 for me to bring to the rest of the game and decrypt. And I said yeah that makes sense, as long as we know what you did after you're dead. And then I said that I wouldn't even suggest or talk with him about who he blocks.

Which in hindsight maybe was a bad idea, because i had no idea he was target8ng Ulti. But, at one point he asked me if I thought Ulti starting the train on me was scummy. And i said that there is no way Ulti is anything but town cop. And that he'll resolve eventually so no need to worry. So...

I also said that Ulti voting me at EoD yesterday tracks because it's now past day 1-3 Ulti ...

IfGodCouldDie posted...

@Kirby321 I'd really like to know what you're talking about because Ulti is actually climbing up my suspicions list and you're claiming there is a scan on him?

I jailed Ulti last night, and a night kill still happened.

Let's suppose Ulti is scum. Scum knows I can stop kills and have done so before. If Ulti claims Cop, the likelihood of me risking a jail on the Cop is extremely low. Thus, it makes sense for scum Ulti to make the kill.

However, I did jail Ulti and MZero died anyway. The uncountered fake Cop claim would've been the safest person to deliver the kill with, therefore, Ulti is highly likely to not be scum. Because what kind of lunatic townsperson roleblocks the claimed Cop? Nobody would ever expect that, and scum would have no reason to not let scum Ulti deliver the kill last night.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

So in that scenario do you announce that you protected a kill, or do you try to nail Ulti to the wall? It's ambiguous regardless of outcome.

With a doc claim and no scum roleblocker? Scum would be hella gambiting on Blade not protecting Ulti. Odds of that are extremely low, so I would've absolutely accused Ulti of being scum. I made a whole list of reasons why I thought Ulti was fishy in spite of his Cop claim!

Kirby321 posted...

Scum would be hella gambiting on Blade not protecting Ulti.

Something he has claimed to do 0 times up to that point.

PunishedBen posted...

No way, firstly, at the start of day Kirby told me just in case that he was not going to tell me who he's targeting just in case, and instead leave a message at 4:59 for me to bring to the rest of the game and decrypt. And I said yeah that makes sense, as long as we know what you did after you're dead. And then I said that I wouldn't even suggest or talk with him about who he blocks.

Which in hindsight maybe was a bad idea, because i had no idea he was target8ng Ulti. But, at one point he asked me if I thought Ulti starting the train on me was scummy. And i said that there is no way Ulti is anything but town cop. And that he'll resolve eventually so no need to worry. So...

To your credit, I literally changed my target ten minutes before the deadline... just to change it back to Ulti.

Y'all haven't been reading the day. Ben is innocent of me targeting Ulti. If you want someone to blame, pick on Ctes for that Lopen theory or Ulti for trying to lynch Ben who is extremely unlikely to be scum >_>

I think the scum is definitively Red and Death.

Red has been incredibly deflective and trying to push authority when his presence was otherwise very absent in the first several days of the game.

Death's vote on Ben yesterday and the poor justifications for it look incredibly opportunistic. There was absolutely ZERO reason not to lynch an unclaimed Vanilla yesterday, and the only reason Red is standing here today and IGCD doesn't have a vig shot is because of the idiotic Ben special that showed up out of nowhere.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Stop being so good bro lmao, cant believe I thought this was

Ulti what are you even on about.

Sorry, meant to add this on there: ##Vote: Death

Kirby321 posted...

There was absolutely ZERO reason not to lynch an unclaimed Vanilla yesterday,

What are you trying to say here kirby.

Actually IGCD doesn't have a shot because like 8 people reacted to the Ben votes by voting Peaf. Red seemed solidly on the sidelines by that point

Leafeon13N posted...

What are you trying to say here kirby.

Un-scanned

I think

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Red seemed solidly on the sidelines by that point

There wasn't anywhere to be. People went crazy.

It was frustrating to watch.

Like if people wanted to lynch ben we had 47.9 hours to mske the argument.

Turning it into a special was ???.

Leafeon13N posted...

There wasn't anywhere to be. People went crazy.

It was frustrating to watch.

I meant your lynch.

You were surpassed by Ben and then by Peaf.

Kirby321 posted...

I jailed Ulti last night, and a night kill still happened.

Let's suppose Ulti is scum. Scum knows I can stop kills and have done so before. If Ulti claims Cop, the likelihood of me risking a jail on the Cop is extremely low. Thus, it makes sense for scum Ulti to make the kill.

However, I did jail Ulti and MZero died anyway. The uncountered fake Cop claim would've been the safest person to deliver the kill with, therefore, Ulti is highly likely to not be scum. Because what kind of lunatic townsperson roleblocks the claimed Cop? Nobody would ever expect that, and scum would have no reason to not let scum Ulti deliver the kill last night.

Oh ok, so not actually ultra confirmed town just confirmed to not be sending in the kill.

Leafeon13N posted...

Like if people wanted to lynch ben we had 47.9 hours to mske the argument.

Turning it into a special was ???.

I made my argument. His flavor is shit and his BP walk back is suspicious and the logic for his lies is questionable. That qualified Ben as the one special I was happy to join

Leafeon13N posted...

It was frustrating to watch.

^

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I meant your lynch.

You were surpassed by Ben and then by Peaf.

I thought i was already s

Urpassed by peaf. But fuck if i could tell how that went.

possibly, either way your lynch wasn't happening and Ben was an option I could (and still can) support.

The Ben train was unexpected, but welcome.

Like i dont mean to tell people they are this dumb but.

If you think I'm scum you also should know just by fucking numbers that you are arguing thst was town going crazy.

So to say "omg scum was saving red" is fucking stupid.

Leafeon13N posted...

Like i dont mean to tell people they are this dumb but.

If you think I'm scum you also should know just by fucking numbers that you are arguing thst was town going crazy.

So to say "omg scum was saving red" is fucking stupid.

I'll be honest, I didn't even consider numbers when I had that train of thought.

If there are 4, 3 trying to save you sure but that would mean 6 scum with at least 2 very powerful roles which isn't likely.

If there are 3, that's 2 trying to save you which is going to be a bit more difficult unless they are influential players, so maybe.

If there are 2, that's one scum trying to save you and all they could really do is just not be on your lynch which is a bit easier to blend in as 1 player.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Actually IGCD doesn't have a shot because like 8 people reacted to the Ben votes by voting Peaf. Red seemed solidly on the sidelines by that point

I only voted Peaf because it seemed like Peaf had more votes than Red and I was vehemently opposed to Ben getting lynched.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I made my argument. His flavor is shit and his BP walk back is suspicious and the logic for his lies is questionable. That qualified Ben as the one special I was happy to join

So I understand those points. They're valid. However, I have one counter-argument to make:

Why does scum Ben even say anything at EoD? The whole reason a train got started was because he opened his mouth and voted Red.

Scum Ben doesn't gain anything from half-ass posting unless he was trying to save someone... but he voted Red and Peaf flipped town. If Red is town, then scum Ben just doesn't have to say anything and one of Red or Peaf gets lynched. If Red is scum, why did scum Ben risk his neck to vote Red?

Like. Maybe i was miscounting tell me if i was wrong. But it looked like Peaf was going to be lynched.

Then people went crazy on ben, then reversed to peaf.

There are probably some arguments to be made about alignments with ben out of that.

But saying "lol saving red" is a load of crap.

Kirby321 posted...

Why does scum Ben even say anything at EoD? The whole reason a train got started was because he opened his mouth and voted Red.

Because sometimes scum screws up?

We'd have never lynched knightz if we convinced ourselves that scum is incapable of making obvious mistakes.

Why tie his own vote to yours to begin with? Shows a lack of wanting to commit to his own reads

Let's look at EoD. Shortly after Ben posted his "I'm at work and I can't make deadline and omg everything is falling apart ahhhh" thing, Peaf was at 4 votes and Red was at 3 votes. We know Peaf is town.

Let's look at what Death has to say about Ben's post:

htaeD posted...

Its okay Ben. Work matters.

[a few posts later]

I believe Ben is genuine regardless. Tho surprisingly humble as well. Not a concern for now if you ask me.

Death is very clearly giving Ben the benefit of the doubt that he's busy with work and made a post in haste.

Now here's where things get very funky. Ben clearly justified his vote on Red with this post:
PunishedBen posted...

In the car now. Dead line just doesn't work for me. Kirby I will vote with you

In other words, Ben was voting with me. My vote was on Red at the time, so Ben also votes Red. Or tries to, after accidentally voting me first.

Then, after Ulti and Blade have both voted Ben, Death chimes in with:
htaeD posted...

Okay work pressure can make people post weird things. But that vote was just out of nowhere.

So Ben's vote was "out of nowhere" even though he very clearly said he was voting with me? Interesting.

And several posts after FD votes for Ben, Death says:
htaeD posted...

Ulti for gods sake if you are town, think about scanning one of the claimed nillas after this.
Do not scan Kirby.

So Death is telling Ulti to scan the claimed Vanillas, eh? Ben is not in that group. Wouldn't it help Ulti to thin the pool of claimed Vanillas? Death clearly supports the notion that scum is in the Vanillas.

Now here's the kicker. There's a three-way tie between Ben, Red, and Peaf. We have two unscanned, claimed Vanillas and one claimed Neighbor.

Death is very clearly directing Ulti to scan a vanilla. Why on earth does Death break the die by not voting one of those claimed Vanillas?

QED: Death's EoD logic does not line up at all and actively contradicts itself. I see a much greater case for Death to be scum here than a case for Ben to be scum.

Kirby321 posted...

QED: Death's EoD logic does not line up at all and actively contradicts itself. I see a much greater case for Death to be scum here than a case for Ben to be scum.

Death's EOD was an abomination.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Because sometimes scum screws up?

We'd have never lynched knightz if we convinced ourselves that scum is incapable of making obvious mistakes.

Why tie his own vote to yours to begin with? Shows a lack of wanting to commit to his own reads

Ben clearly stated that he was running into a time conflict with the deadline and work. We know already that Ben is in the CST time zone, so the 6 PM EDT deadline would happen exactly when he's off work (5 PM CDT). He said as much during the sign-up topic.

PunishedBen posted...

I'm so sorry guys but I cant even be here because my boss keeps calling me into his office. I can make your opinion of me worse - I didnt even read the whole Red post that caused me to "unvote" him. Just saw that it was long and addressed every player and that the first sentence actually had opinions about how was scummy, and that + Ulti's read on Red was enough to make me panic and think we were lynching town. But honestly you cant take my opinion very seriously because I havent had time to actually follow up and didnt even read that whole post. I unvoted because I knew he was in the lead and forgot I didnt vote him, because in my mind I was voting him basically all day. But I dont have time to come to an accurate descion. And now I'm literally being shoved out the door and have to drive so goodbye.

I wont even vote for anyone because I cant be here. I'd rather Kirby, Ulti, and Blade take the lead

It was extremely clear that Ben the only reason he was tying his vote to me is because he had zero time to analyze the topic and commit to a read. In a vacuum, that sounds like lazy scum. But the context is important here. Ben could be faking it, but given what we already know about the situation, it checks out. Ben would have been getting off of work at that time, and if he's had a busy day, of course he wouldn't be able to catch up.

Now, I agree that sometimes scum screws up and makes obvious mistakes. Could you do me a favor? I made a post analyzing Death's end of day. I want you to look at that post and tell me what you think. Do you agree with the conclusion I made there?

I am fairly certain you were the lynch leader before the Ben train, red.

Then after it went to peaf for some reason

TotallyNotMI posted...

I am fairly certain you were the lynch leader before the Ben train, red.

Then after it went to peaf for some reason

It was a 3-way tie.

It was peaf at 4 me at 3 before the ben chaos started.