Current Events > Hamas accepts ceasefire deal

(+) Yeah! (+)

EPR-radar posted...

Bibi is the one calling the shots on the Israeli side, and Bibi wants his war because that's how he plans to stay in office. So IDF statements are pretty much irrelevant.

I'm just responding to the poster saying the IDF doesn't want to eliminate all of hamas and showing them how that doesn't make sense given the IDFs own statements.

tankboy posted...

Okay, so that's the opposite of what I said. Great.

Your silly disclaimer doesn't take away from the reality of you trying to explain away what israel is doing. You claim that no one cares about Palestinians... so draw your own conclusions? Then you throw in a "not an excuse for what israel is doing btw" to cover your ass. Please, you're not fooling anyone.

1337toothbrush posted...

You talk about them as if no one knows who they are. It's irrelevant to your original point where you claim that the countries don't care about the Palestinians. Hell, that point itself is irrelevant in the face of israel committing genocide. Seems like you're just trying to find an excuse for it.

So you dont actually give a shit about atrocities if Israel isnt doing them.

McMarbles posted...

So you dont actually give a shit about atrocities if Israel isnt doing them.

So you think the houthis' actions outweigh, or even *justify*, what israel has done? Obviously the houthis are bad, but the israeli government is far worse and that's really saying something since the israeli government is an internationally recognized government and not just some shitty terrorist group. You obviously don't care about atrocities because you're out here trying to defend the worst ones currently going on. Is it because you don't give a shit about atrocities if israel is doing them?

tankboy posted...

It is extremely relevant, because it explains why Israel, surrounded by Arab countries, can get away with brutalizing the Palestinians for decades. The Arabs kept Palestinians in refugee camps as a bargaining chip, got the UN to literally change the definition of refugee to support their efforts, lost a few wars, and then decided maybe it would be better if everybody (except Palestinians) made money instead. That's not excusing for Israel; that's an explanation for why the larger ethnostates in the region allow it to happen. They simply don't care.

There is also the fact that all of those ethnostates combined can't win a fight against the US and the rest of Israel's western enablers. Like zero chance. Direct intervention only leads to their own destruction.

You know what it doesn't matter

1337toothbrush posted...

but the israeli government is far worse and that's really saying something since the israeli government is an internationally recognized government

This is the sticking point.

It's like when Republicans compare sitting congressmen to random people. You expect better behavior from a government. Even if Israel is no worse than terror groups, terror groups are expected to be terror groups. They aren't nuclear-armed respected governments backed by the most powerful nations in the world.

ScazarMeltex posted...

There is also the fact that all of those ethnostates combined can't win a fight against the US and the rest of Israel's western enablers. Like zero chance. Direct intervention only leads to their own destruction.

That's a really good point. For so long, the (mostly racist) explanation was that Arabs suck at war. But since Ukraine, we now know that it was actually Russian weapons that sucked.

ScazarMeltex posted...

There is also the fact that all of those ethnostates combined can't win a fight against the US and the rest of Israel's western enablers. Like zero chance. Direct intervention only leads to their own destruction.

The surrounding Arab nations basically had to throw the Palestinians to the wolves, because they started a war and lost. Israel would have taken even more territory if those wars hadn't ended when they did.

but if Israel hadn't won those conflicts they would have been completely eliminated.

thronedfire2 posted...

they started a war and lost

That's like saying the Native Americans started a war with the Europeans and lost.

thronedfire2 posted...

The surrounding Arab nations basically had to throw the Palestinians to the wolves, because they started a war and lost. Israel would have taken even more territory if those wars hadn't ended when they did.

but if Israel hadn't won those conflicts they would have been completely eliminated.

Jesus fucking Christ. Sometimes I truly forget how shitty some of our posters are but then get reminded.

Sandalorn posted...

Jesus fucking Christ. Sometimes I truly forget how shitty some of our posters are but then get reminded.

and I don't suppose you care to elaborate at all on that?

That's good they can send the billions of dollars we just sent back or cancel the money sent

tankboy posted...

That's a really good point. For so long, the (mostly racist) explanation was that Arabs suck at war. But since Ukraine, we now know that it was actually Russian weapons that sucked.

It's not that Arabs suck at war, but it wasn't just that Russian equipment was bad either. There are any number of reasons that the Yom-Kippur, six days war, and 1st Arab Israeli wars turned out the way they did.

SHRlKE posted...

Good stuff. Don't fuck this up now Israel.

It's Israel. Of course, they will fuck it up.

it won't go through. Israel is using this war to commit a genocide and they won't stop until they have completed that goal.

Cynrascal posted...

It's Israel. Of course, they will fuck it up.

About that... Israel is now claiming the ceasefire Hamas accepted is not the one they agreed to and are currently launching strikes into Rafah.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/06/middleeast/hamas-agrees-ceasefire-proposal-israel-gaza-latam-intl/index.html

bfslick50 posted...

About that... Israel is now claiming the ceasefire Hamas accepted is not the one they agreed to and are currently launching strikes into Rafah.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/06/middleeast/hamas-agrees-ceasefire-proposal-israel-gaza-latam-intl/index.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4vIBijzg4w

bfslick50 posted...

About that... Israel is now claiming the ceasefire Hamas accepted is not the one they agreed to and are currently launching strikes into Rafah.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/06/middleeast/hamas-agrees-ceasefire-proposal-israel-gaza-latam-intl/index.html

Because the death of the Palestinians is the point.

those terms are literally returning to what everything was before oct 7th, which solves nothing.

Hamas needs to be removed, but Israel also needs to be told to get in line cause they overdid it and commited war crimes in the process. Both sides need be hit hard

Due to the power dynamics in place I tend to lean towards prioritising anything that leads towards less civilian deaths. Its good that Hamas accepted a ceasefire but after reading up on the specifics it seems like they just unilaterally accepted a ceasefire that Israel had said is non starter in its current form. I dont agree with many things the Israelis have done over the war and coming out and saying they are going to attack rafah no matter what happens is shitty. I do also accept from Israels point of view any ceasefire should include Hamas being removed from power. I also think that works both ways and Netanyahu shouldnt be in charge as hes an obstacle to peace in the area but just like removing Hamas any replacement of leadership on both sides is likely to be business as usual.

Im also sceptical of the timing of Hamas of waiting until hours before Israel are about to pull the trigger on going into Rafah before saying they accept a ceasefire. From a political point of view theyve pulled a blinder in making Israel looking like theyve broken a ceasefire that never existed and Israel never agreed to while trying to garner more international support which seems to be working tbh based on all the Hamas accept ceasefire news articles out just before the Rafah attack begins. Like I said above peace will never be possible without both Hamas and Netanyahu out of power but Israel have publically stated they will be going into Rafah no matter what so . In a sane world Israel would hold back until more ceasefire talks have been concluded. Not rush to attack Rafah ASAP as soon as Hamas publically announce they have come to terms on a potential ceasefire deal. It seems Israel want to go into Rafah no matter what.

As per the whole situation while all these political games are being played out in the media its the innocents in Gaza who suffer.

Do people who talk about propaganda not realize that they are falling victim to it as well? Of course Israel didn't accept the ceasefire, the ceasefire was meant to be un-acceptable, so that way Israel can be accused of rejecting it and attacking anyway.

A genuine ceasefire would be amazing but what exactly did Hamas offer them in exchange for getting everything they want? A promise that they really really definitely won't attack this time, oh yeah, and also get rid of the blockade? Does anybody really believe that Hamas was not going to attack again? Israel would have to be fools to think that that was a genuine cease fire, and since it seems Hamas decided to accept a ceasefire offer that didn't even exist, their tactics are pretty obvious and everybody here falls for it.....

I want peace there, we all want peace there...I have no idea how it's going to happen, but that ceasefire 'deal' was definitely not the way.....not even to mention that they were demanding a 50-to-1 prisoner-to-hostage trade. But even beyond that the other terms were nonsense.....Nobody would have accepted that.

It's not propaganda if it's telling you what you want to hear.
/s

"Why won't they release the hostages"
"Because Israel said the hostages don't matter and they plan to raze Rafah either way"
"Well having hostages is still bad"
"So is genocide"

HHH_is_the_game posted...

the ceasefire was meant to be un-acceptable

To the extremists who currently control Israel's government, nothing short of ethnic cleansing is acceptable.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

not even to mention that they were demanding a 50-to-1 prisoner-to-hostage trade.

Possibly because Israel is holding (at least) 50 times as many hostages as Hamas is.

Don't engage with HHH, he's just going to talk in circles and deflect from the actual ongoing genocide.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Do people who talk about propaganda not realize that they are falling victim to it as well? Of course Israel didn't accept the ceasefire, the ceasefire was meant to be un-acceptable, so that way Israel can be accused of rejecting it and attacking anyway.

A genuine ceasefire would be amazing but what exactly did Hamas offer them in exchange for getting everything they want? A promise that they really really definitely won't attack this time, oh yeah, and also get rid of the blockade? Does anybody really believe that Hamas was not going to attack again? Israel would have to be fools to think that that was a genuine cease fire, and since it seems Hamas decided to accept a ceasefire offer that didn't even exist, their tactics are pretty obvious and everybody here falls for it.....

I want peace there, we all want peace there...I have no idea how it's going to happen, but that ceasefire 'deal' was definitely not the way.....not even to mention that they were demanding a 50-to-1 prisoner-to-hostage trade. But even beyond that the other terms were nonsense.....Nobody would have accepted that.

Yeah I agree tbh. People criticise Israel propaganda and rightly so. But from my experience Hamas propaganda isnt held to the same level of skepticism by some people.

You can see it in the main topic where random tweets are taking at face value and you arent allowed to even question the validity of them at all without being labelled a genocide enabler. Truth is the first casualty of war and this applies to both sides. There are some great journalists pointing out the horrors in Gaza that undoubtably taking place but people should learn to keep their critical thinking skills active and not just accept anything that comes out just cause its your side.

Legitimately see Biden not only losing this November. But getting fucking god stomped.

luigi33 posted...

Legitimately see Biden not only losing this November. But getting fucking god stomped.

Maybe that'll be the wake up call to the Democrats.

Thank you, I'm here all week.

SHRlKE posted...

Yeah I agree tbh. People criticise Israel propaganda and rightly so. But from my experience Hamas propaganda isnt held to the same level of skepticism by some people.

I personally have no issue at all with equating them exactly alike so I agree the propaganda works both ways.

It's nice to see HHH finally agree the IDF/Israel Gov't is exactly like Hamas though. Good steps.

luigi33 posted...

Legitimately see Biden not only losing this November. But getting fucking god stomped.

No he's not. Not against 45.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Do people who talk about propaganda not realize that they are falling victim to it as well? Of course Israel didn't accept the ceasefire, the ceasefire was meant to be un-acceptable, so that way Israel can be accused of rejecting it and attacking anyway.

A genuine ceasefire would be amazing but what exactly did Hamas offer them in exchange for getting everything they want? A promise that they really really definitely won't attack this time, oh yeah, and also get rid of the blockade? Does anybody really believe that Hamas was not going to attack again? Israel would have to be fools to think that that was a genuine cease fire, and since it seems Hamas decided to accept a ceasefire offer that didn't even exist, their tactics are pretty obvious and everybody here falls for it.....

I want peace there, we all want peace there...I have no idea how it's going to happen, but that ceasefire 'deal' was definitely not the way.....not even to mention that they were demanding a 50-to-1 prisoner-to-hostage trade. But even beyond that the other terms were nonsense.....Nobody would have accepted that.

Welp, better let the IDF get back to massacring children.

Takuya_Lee posted...

No he's not. Not against 45.

Keep being delusional. You can't build this level of hatred and then expect to stroll your way into a 2nd Presidency. I still will hold my nose and vote for this disgusting monster in November but I wouldn't be surprised if enough progressive types don't.

luigi33 posted...

Keep being delusional. You can't build this level of hatred and then expect to stroll your way into a 2nd Presidency. I still will hold my nose and vote for this disgusting monster in November but I wouldn't be surprised if enough progressive types don't.

Careful, such talk can get you purged around here.

Kaiser-Mazoku posted...

Careful, such talk can get you purged around here.

Fuck anybody who comes at me on this.

Takuya_Lee posted...

No he's not. Not against 45.

I think people overestimate just how much Americans care about foreign policy when they're in the voting booth, compared to domestic matters. This is deservedly going to be a bad mark on Biden's record but I think people will care more about abortion, project 2025, etc.

luigi33 posted...

Keep being delusional. You can't build this level of hatred and then expect to stroll your way into a 2nd Presidency. I still will hold my nose and vote for this disgusting monster in November but I wouldn't be surprised if enough progressive types don't.

Biden being the center of this discussion is a major disservice to the party and country by progressives. It's like you can't support a ceasefire while still thinking Biden is doing what he can to appease the wide variety of demographics in America (like every competent president tries to do when facing reelection) or that this issue is secondary to many other policy matters Biden is running on. Every time I see Biden brought up in relation to this, I can't help but think what tools so many progressives are to GOP hate-mongers. Biden's not the only figure at play here in this conflict which not directly involve the country he serves.

Kaiser-Mazoku posted...

Maybe that'll be the wake up call to the Democrats.

Thank you, I'm here all week.

To do what? That'll be the last election if Trump wins.

Do I think Israel government is EXACTLY like Hamas? no. They are pretty awful, but I'd say Hamas is certainly worse. And at least the Israeli government cares about their own citizens, which is more than I can say about Hamas, who purposely puts theirs at risk because it helps them win a PR war, operating out of hospitals and schools, etc. Do you really think Hamas has the Palestinians best interests at heart? Precisely why it's so tragic about the Palestinian plight is because they have nobody on their side. Neither Israel or Hamas is looking out for their best interests.

LoZguy709 posted...

Biden being the center of this discussion is a major disservice to the party and country by progressives. It's like you can't support a ceasefire while still thinking Biden is doing what he can to appease the wide variety of demographics in America (like every competent president tries to do when facing reelection) or that this issue is secondary to many other policy matters Biden is running on. Every time I see Biden brought up in relation to this, I can't help but think what tools so many progressives are to GOP hate-mongers. Biden's not the only figure at play here in this conflict which not directly involve the country he serves.

You ans your ilk will be the first ones crying about Biden's genocide supporting policies as one of the major reasons he loses if he does.

luigi33 posted...

Fuck anybody who comes at me on this.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you not make a topic about how liberals should be "purged" if Democrats lose in November?

Hamas killed how many people, 1,700? How many has Israel killed? 60,000?

Umbreon posted...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you not make a topic about how liberals should be "purged" if Democrats lose in November?

Fuck yes. Electorally that is. Specifically zionists who cost us this election and sinking USA into the dark ages of fascism for atleast 3 or so decades.

ClayGuida posted...

To do what? That'll be the last election if Trump wins.

Oh right like how we didn't have any more elections the last time he won.......

Kaiser-Mazoku posted...

Oh right like how we didn't have any more elections the last time he won.......

Project 2025 wasn't a thing last time. Trump wasn't running on a platform of vengeance against his enemies last time. The GOP has radicalized in the extreme since last time. White Replacement theory along with other Nazi bullshit is part of their platform now, not some fringe shit like it was then. Charlottesville was an outlier for them last time Trump won. Now it's the goal. Grow up and pay attention to what they are telling you they want to do. The mask is off, the gloves are off.

luigi33 posted...

You ans your ilk will be the first ones crying about Biden's genocide supporting policies as one of the major reasons he loses if he does.

Get lost with that crap. It's like you didn't bother trying to comprehend any part of that but I doubt you've made any effort to do so from the beginning of this conflict re-emerging. You're the one attacking the party that would be infinitely better for the future of not just the country, but the world in general.

ScazarMeltex posted...

Welp, better let the IDF get back to massacring children.

No, we need to get to peace, Hamas does not want peace. I don't know how we attain it with them there to constantly stoke the fires. Most likely we need a two-state solution and intervention from a third party (maybe us) to stop this and lay down the law and stop the violence and aggression from Israel but Hamas in power will make it very hard to ever get to peace, and that's just a sad fact. Netanyahu needs to go too, and replaced by leadership that wants to work towards peace.

The thing is at least Israel has some way of attaining that, they can get a more peaceful influence in place and I hope they do and they get Netanyahu far away from any control. Get SOMEBODY that actually wants to stop this cycle of violence. Maybe it's a far hope but at least there can be some. The palestinians have no way of getting rid of Hamas though, and I have no idea what anybody is supposed to do until they are gone. It seems like the only possible solution is finding a faction of palestinians to support against Hamas but I have no idea how that happens

ClayGuida posted...

Hamas killed how many people, 1,700? How many has Israel killed? 60,000?

The official numbers are;
Gaza

• Killed: at least 34,789 people, including more than:
• More than 14,500 children killed
• Injured: more than 78,204 people
• Missing: more than 8,000

Occupied West Bank

• Killed: at least 498 people, including more than:
• 124 children
• Injured: more than 4,950

Israel

• Killed: 1,139 people

But I WILL say one thing the ceasefire deals SHOULD include is Israel backing out of the west bank settlements, which is BS that they do that, pushing people out of their homes, and it would be an easy show of good faith to just STOP.

Foppe posted...

The official numbers are;
Gaza
* Killed: at least 34,789 people, including more than:
* More than 14,500 children killed
* Injured: more than 78,204 people
* Missing: more than 8,000
Occupied West Bank
* Killed: at least 498 people, including more than:
* 124 children
* Injured: more than 4,950
Israel
* Killed: 1,139 people

Do we have numbers for how many Hamas members have been killed?