Current Events > Do you think the Crucifixion of Jesus happened? Historically speaking

(+) Yeah! (+)

I've heard some theories that everything except the supernatural stuff, actually happened in the New Testament. But that Jesus didn't actually think he was going to die. And that he was shocked at the end. Then Paul came along and retconned and added in new lore to explain everything and make it into a religion

Only issue is that I don't think the Romans had any record of his execution or criminal trial. So I don't know.

For a long time, I've kinda been inclined to think Jesus never even existed. But I often get pushback from other people on that

Yeah, then he got up 3 days later

Almost certainly. How much of what the Bible says about the guy is true is up for debate, but someone w/ the same name was definitely crucified.

Isn't there a record of someone named Jesus being crucified in Roman records? I thought I heard that somewhere.

Something definitely happened and people were definitely crucified over it, which led to a movement.

nekrodev posted...

Almost certainly. How much of what the Bible says about the guy is true is up for debate, but someone w/ the same name was definitely crucified.

Is there a Roman record, from that time, not years, decades or centuries later... that verifies he was convicted and executed?

Kaldrenthebold posted...

Isn't there a record of someone named Jesus being crucified in Roman records? I thought I heard that somewhere.

there are one or two accounts, and while there are some issues w/ potential alterations / additions to make it more favorable to the Christian viewpoint, some guy recognized as Jesus was definitely killed

Some barbaric government murder of a guy named Jesus. Sure.

History is loaded with senseless murder in the name of faith and religion.

I'm firmly in the don't know and it doesn't matter side of the argument. It can't even be definitively proved that Jesus existed so of course nobody can say with confidence that the crucifixion happened.

The fact that the Romans did crucify people though does tell us that we cannot say that it definitively didn't happen, it's plausible that a cult leader named Jesus may have been crucified at some point.

I think its about as legit as the rock monsters fighting with Noah before the flood.

There is pretty widespread historical consensus that a Jesus figure did exist that Christianity was based off of, and with that in mind there's a good probability that the historical Jesus was crucified, given it being a common form of Roman capital punishment.

Now, how much of the biblical event occurred? Nobody fucking knows. Maybe mostly legend.

Turbam posted...

Yeah, then he got up 3 days later

Sure he did buddy

nekrodev posted...

there are one or two accounts, and while there are some issues w/ potential alterations / additions to make it more favorable to the Christian viewpoint, some guy recognized as Jesus was definitely killed

That's what I was aware of. So I guess to answer this topic, yes I think he was. Whether he's the savior of humanity? Well that is a whole other question

Yes

Yea I believe so.

It's OK to accept the evidence for the existence of a historical figure named Jesus who preached a couple of thousand years ago and was crucified by the Romans.

It is not a gateway drug to becoming a Christian, even though some behave like it is.

Turbam posted...

Yeah, then he got up 3 days later

It was super easy, barely an inconvenience.

100% happened- but when people claim he rose from the dead is bullshit. He never rose from anything except when the Roman raised him onto the cross

I don't think it matters.

It seems most historians can agree on these 3 things
-there was someone named Jesus of Nazareth in that time period
-he was baptized by John the Baptist
-he was crucified by the Romans/Pilate

There's virtually nothing else known or noted as being remarkable between his birth and death.

In all likely hood, the plot of The Life as Brian is more or less what happened. There were a LOT of people hocking some religious belief in the area at this time.

The shroud of turin isn't reeeeal

Zikten posted...

Is there a Roman record, from that time, not years, decades or centuries later... that verifies he was convicted and executed?

The Roman record is about the "Christus" which just means "anointed one" it's unclear if that refers to a kind of historical Jesus or not.

The area he allegedly lived in had a dominant sect of Jews known as the "Zealots" which wanted to violently rebel against the Romans. So if he was crucified, it's more likely that he was crucified because he was instigating violence than because Pilate was trying to placate a mob of Jewish peasants angry at Jesus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealots

I forget the names of the others but basically 1 sect was Wait for Messiah to lead them in battle against Romans, 1 was peacefully negotiate with the Romans for autonomy, and the last one was just integrate with the Romans.

Or something like that.

I think it's technically true when you remove the supernatural stuff

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Jesus

If he actually existed he was likely crucified.

That said, historians give a lot of leeway to evidence for historical figures since there simply isn't a lot of surviving evidence.

I think since Christianity is so influential in society (and a lot of historians are Christian) that a lot of historians will give even more benefit of the doubt to someone like Jesus.

Turbam posted...

Yeah, then he got up 3 days later

lol respawn rates were so bad back then

SquantoZ posted...

lol respawn rates were so bad back then

Faster than the time it takes in UO + getting all you stats back to where they were before you died

Even if he was crucified, the method was likely different. Crucifixion is about asphyxiation and Romans didn't make a habit of nailing people to the crosses. Having your arms tied up like that collapses your lungs and makes it hard to breathe, forcing you to push up against the little stand you're on to catch your breath and sometimes it can take days for people to die. They most likely would not have taken this one individual, put a crown of thorns on his head, and then nail him to his cross. That makes sense from a Christian perspective, but from a Roman perspective he was just another guy sentenced to die. There would be no reason for them to give him any sort of special treatment.

LeadPipeCinche posted...

I think its about as legit as the rock monsters fighting with Noah before the flood.

Thats awesome

s0nicfan posted...

Even if he was crucified, the method was likely different. Crucifixion is about asphyxiation and Romans didn't make a habit of nailing people to the crosses. Having your arms tied up like that collapses your lungs and makes it hard to breathe, forcing you to push up against the little stand you're on to catch your breath and sometimes it can take days for people to die. They most likely would not have taken this one individual, put a crown of thorns on his head, and then nail him to his cross. That makes sense from a Christian perspective, but from a Roman perspective he was just another guy sentenced to die. There would be no reason for them to give him any sort of special treatment.

There would be if he was a symbol of rebellion and they were trying to destroy morale. The crown of thorns part doesn't really make sense though. I also can't imagine the Romans would let spectators help carry the cross.

There wasn't any accurate depictions of him because the church refused to allow depictions of him in art.

Some of the really really early ones show him waving a magic wand. And that was like hundreds of years after he died.

I think early Christian iconography was very different from what developed

Similar to the image of the Buddha

Ninjas

wanderingshade posted...

There wasn't any accurate depictions of him because the church refused to allow depictions of him in art.

Some of the really really early ones show him waving a magic wand. And that was like hundreds of years after he died.

necromancer build confirmed

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


We don't have the official Roman records, but we do have other writings from around that time (or several decades later, at least)

wanderingshade posted...

There wasn't any accurate depictions of him because the church refused to allow depictions of him in art.

Some of the really really early ones show him waving a magic wand. And that was like hundreds of years after he died.

"Yer a wizard, Jesus!"

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/eab935d9.jpg

YellowSUV posted...

"Yer a wizard, Jesus!"

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/eab935d9.jpg

Jesus was trapped in that tomb for three days before he remembered it's "lev-i-O-sa," not "lev-i-o-SA."

DrizztLink posted...

Jesus was trapped in that tomb for three days before he remembered it's "lev-i-O-sa," not "lev-i-o-SA."

lol

Yes, and hes often referred to as Jesus of Nazareth historically.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

Not much of his life has been widely accepted as historical fact, but his crucifixion absolutely is. Although its noteworthy as not being a rare occurrence at the time.

Its not as definitive that he was just a good person trying to teach others how to live a good life, but its not improbable given how his influence spread and persisted centuries after his death. The religion known as Christianity was founded by the Romans 300 years or so later, some speculate as a method of controlling the reigning dogma of their people.

Theology is interesting stuff.

Absolutely. Whether or not you are religious, almost all historians agreed that this event took place.

Apparently his grave is in japan, the story in japan goes he's had his younger brother get put on the cross and he left to live in japan

LeadPipeCinche posted...

I think its about as legit as the rock monsters fighting with Noah before the flood.

Nah. It's pretty well accepted that at bare minimum there was historically a Jesus who was a spiritual leader who was crucified in Jerusalem and there are at least grains of historocity in the Gospels.

Biofighter55 posted...

Apparently his grave is in japan, the story in japan goes he's had his younger brother get put on the cross and he left to live in japan

lol i saw a video about that a while back. people are wild, dude.

Biofighter55 posted...

Apparently his grave is in japan, the story in japan goes he's had his younger brother get put on the cross and he left to live in japan

The old switcheroo!

no.

its all a fairy tale based on the sun god; horus.

You guys should watch the Book of Clarence

Really good depiction of what it was like imo. Dr. Strange is in it

I believe more in the crucifixion of Brian.