Current Events > Saw image and thought of the 'do you think Israel will cost Biden the election?'

(+) Yeah! (+)

Hornezz posted...

Stop pretending like a Trump victory is the only option besides accepting Biden's involvement in Gaza.

It's not true. There's no evidence whatsoever that Biden would lose the election if he pivots. If you have that evidence, I'm open to seeing it. Until then, all signs say that his handling is costing him voters and threatening a trump reelection is baseless.

Nobody except you is pretending there other options. Its a little thing called reality you are ignoring.

you didnt explain how withholding a vote for Biden, which in turn supports a Trump win, is better for the Israel-Palestine conflict. Explain in no uncertain terms how Trump is the better choice. Go on. Nobody wants to hear about your hypothetical third option that will take all votes from both sides and win the election.

Cemith posted...

Biden is facing pressure on the daily from millions of people.

Good. Keep it up, there's a 6 months window of opportunity for him to pivot. And he already has changed his position, albeit in words only.

Just weeks ago people here insisted I was a Biden-hating idiot for saying that was possible.

Rika_Furude posted...

Nobody except you is pretending there other options. Its a little thing called reality you are ignoring.

I'm not expecting Rika "support the lesser genocide" Furude to accept any other option other than genocide.

It's your own fucking rhetoric that's chasing away voters and risking a Trump election.

Hornezz posted...

The good option is pressuring Biden into changing his stance. I've told you this a hundred times. But for some fucking reason you see throwing Palestinians under the bus as a more preferable option.

And don't tell me it's to elect Biden. Telling people that they have no choice but to accept genocide is about the worst damn campaign message you can send to voters considering abstaining. This is hurting his election chances.

But what if he doesn't pivot? Does that make him worse than Trump? If not, then it's a no-brainer who to vote for. You seem to think I give a fuck about Biden. All I've talked about is the American people. Biden isn't going to suffer if he loses. We are. And apparently that's not enough motivation for stupid voters to vote against Trump? I'd vote for a literal steaming pile of shit over Trump.

Hornezz posted...

I'm not expecting Rika "support the lesser genocide" Furude to accept any other option other than genocide.

It's your own fucking rhetoric that's chasing away voters and risking a Trump election.

That moral high horse won't fly. Abstaining from voting is still refusing to fight against genocide.

Hornezz posted...

I'm not expecting Rika "support the lesser genocide" Furude to accept any other option other than genocide.

It is not surprising at all you're dodging the question about the reality we live in.

It is binary. It is Biden, or it is Trump. If you pretend otherwise, you are a moron.

Biden is facing pressure most Americans, just look at the polls.

If you refuse to acknowledge that reality, you are not a serious person.

Hornezz posted...

It's your own fucking rhetoric that's chasing away voters and risking a Trump election.

Then those voters have a deathwish and don't truly care about anything they claim to.

Hornezz posted...

And yes: I linked an article above that outright stated that Israel's campaign is unsustainable without US weapons. The vast majority of Israeli weapon imports are American. The US does have that much leverage.

What's stopping them from going scorched earth? They have a strong military. They have missiles. They have nukes. We've already given them billions over the years. And they'd have nothing left to lose. They could wipe Palestinians off the planet in a day. I'd argue that as awful as things are, Israel is still holding back because they love that sweet US support.

Hornezz posted...

I'm not expecting Rika "support the lesser genocide" Furude to accept any other option other than genocide.

It's your own fucking rhetoric that's chasing away voters and risking a Trump election.

i asked you or your colleague to stop misrepresenting posts maliciously on purpose.

your pressure of not voting for Biden will result in a trump win when he has a higher vote count. Justify how Trump is the better choice of the two. Thats all youve been asked to do, not to strawman and dodge

There's this bizarre reflex to defend Biden at every corner even if that means losing sight of the goal, which is getting him elected. Wild how so many of you ever seems to acknowledge that.

Conversations just go:
- Biden doing bad things is okay, because Trump is worse
- Biden going against the wishes of his own base is okay, because Trump is worse
- Biden causing his voters to stay at home is okay, because Trump is worse
- Biden handing Trump the election win is... uh, well, Trump's worse

Well that plus the usual accusations and name-calling of course.

Rika_Furude posted...

i asked you or your colleague to stop misrepresenting posts maliciously on purpose.

your pressure of not voting for Biden will result in a trump win when he has a higher vote count. Justify how Trump is the better choice of the two. Thats all youve been asked to do, not to strawman and dodge

All you're gonna get is "That's Biden's problem" and nothing else.

The whole world can burn for all they care if America doesn't end Israel.

Rika_Furude posted...

your pressure of not voting for Biden will result in a trump win when he has a higher vote count.

Prove that Biden cannot possibly pivot without losing the election.

If this is what your entire argument hinges on for "supporting a lesser genocide", then I'm sure you have strong irrefutable evidence for that claim, right?

It's his current handling that's making him lose voters, not the other way around. It's absolutely based on nothing whatsoever.

Hornezz posted...

There's this bizarre reflex to defend Biden at every corner even if that means losing sight of the goal, which is getting him elected. Wild how so many of you ever seems to acknowledge that.

Conversations just go:
- Biden doing bad things is okay, because Trump is worse
- Biden going against the wishes of his own base is okay, because Trump is worse
- Biden causing his voters to stay at home is okay, because Trump is worse
- Biden handing Trump the election win is... uh, well, Trump's worse

Well that plus the usual accusations and name-calling of course.

Quit dodging the motherfucking question.

Do you acknowledge the binary reality of the Electoral College and each candidates stance on Gaza?

Yes.

Or

Fucking

No?

Hornezz posted...

Prove that Biden cannot possibly pivot without losing the election.

If this is what your entire argument hinges on for "supporting a lesser genocide", then I'm sure you have strong irrefutable evidence for that claim, right?

It's his current handling that's making him lose voters, not the other way around. It's absolutely based on nothing whatsoever.

That isnt what I asked. Answer the question.

hockeybabe89 posted...

What's stopping them from going scorched earth? They have a strong military. They have missiles. They have nukes. We've already given them billions over the years. And they'd have nothing left to lose. They could wipe Palestinians off the planet in a day.

If Biden has done all he can to prevent that, then we cannot blame him for that.
As of now though, he has not done everything he can.

I'd argue that as awful as things are, Israel is still holding back because they love that sweet US support.

Based off what?
"the Israeli campaign would not be sustainable without this level of U.S. support"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/06/us-weapons-israel-gaza/

Cemith posted...

Do you acknowledge the binary reality of the Electoral College and each candidates stance on Gaza?

Absolutely not. Biden can change and stop his support for genocide.
You have provided no evidence whatsoever to prove this is impossible.

You just don't want him to.

Hornezz posted...

There's this bizarre reflex to defend Biden at every corner even if that means losing sight of the goal, which is getting him elected. Wild how so many of you ever seems to acknowledge that.

Conversations just go:
- Biden doing bad things is okay, because Trump is worse
- Biden going against the wishes of his own base is okay, because Trump is worse
- Biden causing his voters to stay at home is okay, because Trump is worse
- Biden handing Trump the election win is... uh, well, Trump's worse

Well that plus the usual accusations and name-calling of course.

It should be impossible for Biden to lose voters since he's not as bad as Trump.

I don't need Biden to do anything because I'm not voting for Biden. I'm voting for a warm body that won't destroy America. I'm voting to not die. I'm voting for other Americans to not die.

Anyone who won't vote against Trump on reflex is full of shit about what they care about.

Hornezz, you stated earlier you dont know wtf is going on.
the reason you dont is because you refuse to have a discussion and refuse to read posts

Hornezz posted...

Absolutely not. Biden can change and stop his support for genocide.
You have provided no evidence whatsoever to prove this is impossible.

You just don't want him to.

You're deflecting. That has nothing to do with the reality at the ballot box.

The options are:

• Biden
• Trump
• Third party
• No vote

Your opinion of Biden will not put a different candidate on the ballot.

hockeybabe89 posted...

It should be impossible for Biden to lose voters since he's not as bad as Trump.

Biden SHOULDN'T support war crimes in Gaza, but does
=> this is something you're willing to accept

Voters SHOULDN'T need convincing to vote for Biden, but do
=> this is something you firmly oppose, and are willing to argue at length about

Odd that electing Biden AT ALL COSTS includes accepting fucking genocide, but demanding a politician to listen to his own voters in a democracy is too high of a cost?

Hornezz posted...

Absolutely not. Biden can change and stop his support for genocide.
You have provided no evidence whatsoever to prove this is impossible.

You just don't want him to.

So you do not acknowledge the reality of our two party system. As such, you have outed yourself as a clown who does not live in the reality they should. No one should take you seriously from here onward until you acknowledge the reality of the two party ststem.

It is Biden, or Trump. One could be theoretically be swayed, the aspiring fascist will not be.

Gaza is under fire regardless, it will be worse under Trump for them and also domestically for everyone else.

You refuse to acknowledge this, because like every other enlightened centrist, you bloviate so you can be on your self righteous high horse.

Get over yourself.

mistymermaid posted...

You're deflecting. That has nothing to do with the reality at the ballot box.

The options are:
* Biden
* Trump
* Third party
* No vote

Your opinion of Biden will not put a different candidate on the ballot.

Read my posts, at no point have I argued for a different candidate.

Biden has more than half a year to do right by his voters (and basic international human rights for that matter), and win the election.

Hornezz posted...

Read my posts, at no point have I argued for a different candidate.

Biden has more than half a year to do right by his voters (and basic international human rights for that matter), and win the election.

If you don't like Biden, then you should be arguing for the Democrats to nominate a different candidate.

mistymermaid posted...

If you don't like Biden, then you should be arguing for the Democrats to nominate a different candidate.

But, no, it's always "why can't the dems change" and not "why aren't the Republicans not shitheel monsters"

Cemith posted...

So you do not acknowledge the reality of our two party system. As such, you have outed yourself as a clown who does not live in the reality they should. No one should take you seriously from here onward until you acknowledge the reality of the two party ststem.

Feel free to actually provide proof that it's outright impossible for Biden to make a change in his policy. Canada did it. Previous presidents did it. Biden has already sharply changed his tone, all that's left is actions. You have brought absolutely not one piece of evidence to the table.

You refuse to accept anything other than genocide and have actually deluded yourself into believing this is for a good reason. There's no such thing as a genocide for the greater good.

mistymermaid posted...

If you don't like Biden, then you should be arguing for the Democrats to nominate a different candidate.

Do you think any other candidate has a shot at all?

Hornezz posted...

Biden SHOULDN'T support war crimes in Gaza, but does
=> this is something you're willing to accept

Voters SHOULDN'T need convincing to vote for Biden, but do
=> this is something you firmly oppose, and are willing to argue at length about

Odd that electing Biden AT ALL COSTS includes accepting fucking genocide, but demanding a politician to listen to his own voters in a democracy is too high of a cost?

When did I say he needed to support Israel, or that he shouldn't listen to voters?

All I've said is that he is not as bad as Trump, that there is more than one issue on the ballot, and that him losing will only hurt more people and save none. Trump is a much higher net negative, and it makes anyone on the opposite ticket an obvious and instant choice.

However bad Biden is for Gaza, Trump will be worse and then we add on, literally every other issue on the ballot and it's clear Not Trump is the choice. Not the optimal choice, but the preferable one.

Guide posted...

Do you think any other candidate has a shot at all?

Improbable, I was only naming something he could do that's less repugnant than going to bat for Trump.

Hornezz posted...

You refuse to accept anything other than genocide and have actually deluded yourself into believing this is for a good reason. There's no such thing as a genocide for the greater good.

No one has said otherwise. But at some point you need to decide if you want to save what you can, or give up on the world. All we can do is survive to see each day and work from there.

mistymermaid posted...

Improbable, I was only naming something he could do that's less repugnant than going to bat for Trump.

Try for once just to move beyond 'but Trump'

Why in the hell are you arguing for a third candidate at this point in the election cycle, and how in the hell would that be preferably in beating Trum, more so than telling Biden to stop with his wildly impopular actions that are costing him voters?

hockeybabe89 posted...

But at some point you need to decide if you want to save what you can,

Right. And telling people that genocide is the only option is the complete opposite of that.

It's not helping Biden win the election either.

mistymermaid posted...

Improbable, I was only naming something he could do that's less repugnant than going to bat for Trump.

I totally misread, excuse me.

Hornezz posted...

Feel free to actually provide proof that it's outright impossible for Biden to make a change in his policy.

Not one single person has claimed Biden wouldn't change policy. Where you and your ilk got lost is that even if he doesn't, Trump will be exponentially and quantifiably worse for everyone. You have not acknowledged this, as far as anyone can tell.

Hornezz posted...

Try for once just to move beyond 'but Trump'

For fuck's sake change the fucking record. It is not about Biden. Trump is that fucking bad and being unable or unwilling to acknowledge that makes you complicit in a fascist rise to power. Full stop. Biden is the guy running against him, so he gets the vote.

You are not allowed to hide behind Palestinians when you're tacitly complicit in the oppression of domestic peoples under Trump. It rings completely hollow.
Fuck, you guys are exhausting.

Hornezz posted...

Try for once just to move beyond 'but Trump'

Will that make the GOP less dangerous?

I cannot fucking believe we see all the horrific shit GOP promises if they win, and actual real life American adults are like "Well that's horrible and I hate it, but that's not gonna get me to go to the polls. I need to hear some positives about the Democrats, not just negatives about the GOP!" Do you need to hear the positives of not putting your hand on a hot stove because being told how much you'll hurt yourself isn't a very motivational speech?

Hornezz posted...

Try for once just to move beyond 'but Trump'

Why in the hell are you arguing for a third candidate at this point in the election cycle, and how in the hell would that be preferably in beating Trum, more so than telling Biden to stop with his wildly impopular actions that are costing him voters?

Hornezz posted...

Try for once just to move beyond 'but Trump'

Why in the hell are you arguing for a third candidate at this point in the election cycle, and how in the hell would that be preferably in beating Trum, more so than telling Biden to stop with his wildly impopular actions that are costing him voters?

I would love for America to move past Trump. And Biden for that matter. However we are not past them yet.

Hornezz posted...

Right. And telling people that genocide is the only option is the complete opposite of that.

It's not helping Biden win the election either.

I didn't say it's the only option. Is Biden better or worse than Trump? Will more people be hurt under Trump, or either version of Biden? Answer those questions.

Cemith posted...

Not one single person has claimed Biden wouldn't change policy.

You say this like you haven't been arguing for dozens of posts that there is no alternative to genocide.

Cemith posted...

Trump will be exponentially and quantifiably worse for everyone. You have not acknowledged this, as far as anyone can tell.

I have, numerous times. For months. I'll help you again: TRUMP WILL BE WORSE. Including on Gaza. On every other topic too.

Now that we've established that, can we PLEASE move past this "but Trump worse". You tell me I'm exhausting but this is all I'm seeing on loop every time I enter a topic.

==> Try to actually think about how to prevent a Trump win. Sending more bombs to Israel isn't winning voters for Biden. Lying about Israel's war crimes isn't either. Nor is Biden fans shouting that genocide is the only option, and that protesters are maga chuds for thinking otherwise.

If this is truly about making Biden win at all costs, why are so many of you hellbent on a PR strategy that's so fucking disastrous?

Nobody is going to answer that shit. You're trying to bait people.

Hornezz posted...

You say this like you haven't been arguing for dozens of posts that there is no alternative to genocide.

I don't know how else to explain this to you, because you refuse to believe it. Trump and Biden have the same foreign policy. Israel will be supported until we as a nation pressure Biden into change. We can only stop Israel incrementally and voting in Trump is the end of Gaza as we know it.
Hornezz posted...

I have, numerous times. For months. I'll help you again: TRUMP WILL BE WORSE. Including on Gaza. On every other topic too.

About fucking time one of you centrists said as much. I don't know why it took y'all so fucking long to do this.

Hornezz posted...

Now that we've established that, can we PLEASE move past this "but Trump worse". You tell me I'm exhausting but this is all I'm seeing on loop every time I enter a topic.

Maybe because people like you are all gung-ho for downplaying the actual threat he poses to the literal future of democracy. Whining about how "Biden needs a better plan to win votes" as though voting against a fascist is a privilege to be earned. If voting against a fascist rise to power isn't a compelling enough reason to vote Biden, fuck off forever.

Hornezz posted...

If this is truly about making Biden win at all costs, why are so many of you hellbent on a PR strategy that's so fucking disastrous?

We're not his fucking PR team.

mistymermaid posted...

You're trying to bait people.

Into what? Into explaining why accepting genocide is the more preferable option over pressuring a politician on listening to his voters? If so, yes, I really want to know the answer to that.

Because youre refusing to acknowledge that at some point after whatever pressure you apply youll still have a choice of who to vote for (or not vote) and youre dodging any discussion relating to that

Hornezz posted...

Into what? Into explaining why accepting genocide is the more preferable option over pressuring a politician on listening to his voters? If so, yes, I really want to know the answer to that.

You guys keep creating this argument and it's laughably fucking dumb. No one is accepting genocide, everyone knows we need to pressure Biden. Our head just isn't covered in our own shit so we can acknowledge it isn't an overnight fix.

You don't get to sit on your high horse without getting called out on it.

Cemith posted...

You guys keep creating this argument and it's laughably fucking dumb. No one is accepting genocide, everyone knows we need to pressure Biden. Our head just isn't covered in our own shit so we can acknowledge it isn't an overnight fix.

You don't get to sit on your high horse without getting called out on it.

I'm not going to further his charade by nitpicking policy I'd like Biden to improve.

Hornezz posted...

I have, numerous times. For months. I'll help you again: TRUMP WILL BE WORSE. Including on Gaza. On every other topic too.

Now that we've established that, can we PLEASE move past this "but Trump worse". You tell me I'm exhausting but this is all I'm seeing on loop every time I enter a topic.

You haven't established a damn thing. Just because you say it, doesn't mean you fully comprehend it. People are voting for Biden BECAUSE Trump will be much worse. You can't just move past that fact. However you are expecting people to move past it. You know what that says? It says you don't give a crap about Trump being worse, quite possibly, because you'd rather have him around than Biden, who knows really?

I hate putting this thought out there, but this genocide is happening no matter who is gonna win, assuming Biden continues on this path. What we do know is Trump WILL make this genocide a whole lots worse, on top of the damage he will do to us here in the States. THAT is exactly what people like you want, now just fucking own it. And if it's not (because watch you say it's not), then don't tell us to "move past Trump is worse", because it can not be done as easy as you think it is. That is just basic fact!

StarFighters76 posted...

You haven't established a damn thing. Just because you say it, doesn't mean you fully comprehend it. People are voting for Biden BECAUSE Trump will be much worse. You can't just move past that fact. However you are expecting people to move past it. You know what that says? It says you don't give a crap about Trump being worse, quite possibly, because you'd rather have him around than Biden, who knows really?

I hate putting this thought out there, but this genocide is happening no matter who is gonna win, assuming Biden continues on this path. What we do know is Trump WILL make this genocide a whole lots worse, on top of the damage he will do to us here in the States. THAT is exactly what people like you want, now just fucking own it. And if it's not (because watch you say it's not), then don't tell us to "move past Trump is worse", because it can not be done as easy as you think it is. That is just basic fact!

I said in other topics that CJs actions speak louder than his words. That absolutely applies to Hornezz as well

Cemith posted...

Israel will be supported until we as a nation pressure Biden into change. We can only stop Israel incrementally and voting in Trump is the end of Gaza as we know it.

Holy shit we agree!

Cemith posted...

About fucking time one of you centrists said as much. I don't know why it took y'all so fucking long to do this.

Not a centrist. I posted that same message almost verbatim in a previous topic, twice.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/80737505/979710920
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/80737505/979712258
Cemith posted...

Maybe because people like you are all gung-ho for downplaying the actual threat he poses to the literal future of democracy.

You made this up. I never did that.

Whining about how "Biden needs a better plan to win votes" as though voting against a fascist is a privilege to be earned. If voting against a fascist rise to power isn't a compelling enough reason to vote Biden, fuck off forever.

There's this bizarre rhetoric again. Previously you outright told me that Biden doesn't need to win votes because the other candidate is a fascist. Now I'm telling you: his opponent being a fascist is pretty damn good reason for Biden to go out and win votes. But so many of you seem to think "nah, just accept genocide, Biden is entitled to your vote no matter what". It's not just immoral and undemocratic but even on a pragmatic level: it's not helping him win.

StarFighters76 posted...

You haven't established a damn thing. Just because you say it, doesn't mean you fully comprehend it. People are voting for Biden BECAUSE Trump will be much worse. You can't just move past that fact. However you are expecting people to move past it. You know what that says? It says you don't give a crap about Trump being worse, quite possibly, because you'd rather have him around than Biden, who knows really?

Yes Trump is worse.

Yes Trump is worse.

Yes Trump is worse.

Yes Trump is worse.

Yes Trump is worse.

We should stop him from getting elected. We do that not by telling voters that genocide is the only option, but by telling Biden to take a moral stance.

(inb4 but trump is worse)

Hornezz posted...

Holy shit we agree!

Yeah! Maybe don't make up a fake stance no one would take and we could have got here way sooner!

Hornezz posted...

Not a centrist. I posted that same message almost verbatim in a previous topic, twice.

Then maybe don't spout cjsdowg level centrist rhetoric. Maybe if just one of y'all would lead with "I understand that Trump is worse in every conceivable way and I acknowledge that I have to vote in Biden otherwise everyone everywhere is fucked." It wouldn't be so easy to have pegged you.

Because, spoilers, when you come into a topic and make every post about how bad Biden is, meanwhile we have to chastise you over and over to admit the same thing about the Orange God King you come off like a spineless centrist. Not one of you comes in here exclaiming that Republicans are repugnant shitheels, it's only ever about "Biden-bad" which, yeah, fucking duh. We're all aware of it.

Hornezz posted...

There's this bizarre rhetoric again. Previously you outright told me that Biden doesn't need to win votes because the other candidate is a fascist. Now I'm telling you: his opponent being a fascist is pretty damn good reason for Biden to go out and win votes.

Apparently not for the likes of you, cjs, and MrMojo.
Hornezz posted...

But so many of you seem to think "nah, just accept genocide,

Cemith posted...
You guys keep creating this argument and it's laughably fucking dumb. No one is accepting genocide, everyone knows we need to pressure Biden. Our head just isn't covered in our own shit so we can acknowledge it isn't an overnight fix.

Hornezz posted...

• Biden is entitled to your vote no matter what"

GEE MAYBE FUCKING BECAUSE

Cemith posted...
Not one single person has claimed Biden wouldn't change policy.

AND

Cemith posted...
even if he doesn't, Trump will be exponentially and quantifiably worse for everyone.

It's a real god damn mystery.

Hornezz posted...

It's not just immoral and undemocratic but even on a pragmatic level: it's not helping him win.

We are not. His fucking. PR team. You. Should not. Need. Another reason. Fuck. Off.
mistymermaid posted...

I'm sure I'm biting a troll here but it's so frustrating.

Cemith posted...

I'm sure I'm biting a troll here but it's so frustrating.

I was playing my cards close, to deter the centrists from attacking my opinion of Biden.